Lyon on Rivers

[Brian Wilson 331]

Look Jared walked the second the door was available.

Garry is right, i have no problem with him saying it.

It was Jim Stynes who asked for his help 2 summers ago. Without that invitation he would not have intervened.

It is time the club got stronger so these articles are not even considered let alone written.

I was very critical of Hird for attacking Knights when Knights was coach. I agreed with his ideas but the problem was his status as a revered past player and his influential media position. Knights' position was untenable from that moment on.

I often see Lyon doing the same thing. Just because he is in the media does not mean that he has to voice his opinion on every MFC matter. It's ok to say 'no, I don't want to comment,' particularly when commenting will have a negative effect for a club that he says he loves.

[old55 23,687]

Lyon can have his own opinion, I think the media overrate Lyons status amongst supporters.

I don't think any of the supporters hold Lyon up as some sort of past legend.

His role in the media over the years makes him out to be more to the club - than he is.

He's front and centre on the Demonland banner.

[Muvver Jones 64]

He's front and centre on the Demonland banner.

Perhaps we should replace him with the Ox. He seems to be back in the good books.

[old55 23,687]

Perhaps we should replace him with the Ox. He seems to be back in the good books.

How David Neitz is not in there is beyond me. Record games, record goals, record games as captain.

[Muvver Jones 64]

How David Neitz is not in there is beyond me. Record games, record goals, record games as captain.

True, seem to have become the forgotten man.

[Brian Wilson 331]

How David Neitz is not in there is beyond me. Record games, record goals, record games as captain.

Ivor Warne Smith. We should have our new legend on the banner.

[Sir Why You Little 37,119]

I was very critical of Hird for attacking Knights when Knights was coach. I agreed with his ideas but the problem was his status as a revered past player and his influential media position. Knights' position was untenable from that moment on.

I often see Lyon doing the same thing. Just because he is in the media does not mean that he has to voice his opinion on every MFC matter. It's ok to say 'no, I don't want to comment,' particularly when commenting will have a negative effect for a club that he says he loves.

G Lyon didn't stab Dean Bailey in the back Hird style, please.

Dean was given the job and ultimately failed because he was not strong enough.

Dean rolled over unhappily. But it was his doing.

Matty Knights got White Anted in the media BY THE MAN WHO TOOK HIS JOB!!

The reason i want Hird to fail.

G Lyon is not in that category. Not even close.

[Muvver Jones 64]

Didn't Lyon advise Jim Stynes that it would not be a good idea to sack both Bailey and Schwab at the same time because it may be perceived to be an over reaction or may not look good after 186?

[Brian Wilson 331]

I agree that the circumstances were different but I still think you are a bit soft on Lyon. This is the man who labeled the team 'a laughing stock' and 'pathetic', a team coached by Bailey, who he helped to appoint.

Martin Flanagan had some interesting things to say when Bailey was sacked:

Melbourne's position is also unusual in that it has two highly respected former players - Garry Lyon and David Schwarz - in high-profile positions in the media. Club presidents Eddie McGuire and James Brayshaw are also in the media but both are extremely politic in their pronouncements where their clubs are involved.

Lyon's comments carry particular weight because he is seen as the coach-in-waiting by many of the club's supporters. Not only does he have the reputation of having been a great Melbourne player, he has precisely the combative temperament this team seems to lack.

Lyon also played a leading role in assisting the club to eliminate its debt. If anybody can precipitate a political crisis at Melbourne, it is Lyon, and his remarks on the weekend were partly responsible for doing that.

Bailey loses out in blame game

Does this not sound like Hird's situation?

I like the comparison of McGuire and Brayshaw. Their situation is different as they are club presidents, but they know how to defend their club in public.

Edited March 23, 2013 by Whispering_Jack

[Biffen 12,944]

WYL,

I'd prefer if Garry didn't bang on about integrity one week and then write an article best summed up as "Rivers much happier at top club and glad to be out of the hell-hole".

Garry was a champ for this club and he should go on championing our cause ,not just when it suits him .

Hird ,another one-club champ and self-aggrandiser ,finally accepted a coaching role when his other offers dried up .

Garry wants his cake and to eat it too ,which is not good to see from a former skipper and much loved Demon hero.

[Carrot Top 947]

Sorry for mass-quoting, but these 5 posts miss the point.

It's not whether or not what he's written is accurate, it's the fact that Lyon is a massive contributing factor to these problems. He was one of those responsible for implementing Bailey, is part of the crew that turfs him, then gets another crack when it comes to appointing the next coach - followed by articles like this. Gaz has a dream role: he gets to play the hero every time the club "needs" him, then he gets to [censored] on the solution when it doesn't work, as if it had nothing to do with him. I reckon it stinks.

So the message is spot on but the messenger is on the nose?

Well, if a prostitute's parrot says the sky is blue it doesn't become less blue because a working girl's bird said so.

[Brian Wilson 331]

So the message is spot on but the messenger is on the nose?

Well, if a prostitute's parrot says the sky is blue it doesn't become less blue because a working girl's bird said so.

'What matter who's speaking, someone said what matter who's speaking'.

I think that in this case, it goes to the very heart of the matter.

[dee-luded 2,959]

A good honest article designed to fire us, & Rivers up.

Can't see a problem with it.

[dee-luded 2,959]

WYL,

I'd prefer if Garry didn't bang on about integrity one week and then write an article best summed up as "Rivers much happier at top club and glad to be out of the hell-hole".

Garry was a champ for this club and he should go on championing our cause ,not just when it suits him .

Hird ,another one-club champ and self-aggrandiser ,finally accepted a coaching role when his other offers dried up .

Garry wants his cake and to eat it too ,which is not good to see from a former skipper and much loved Demon hero.

I see, now I understand why people are upset.

most didn't want Rivers to go. I get it. sorry.

I wanted us to have a cleanup of the list, & old guard, not because he's a poor player, but a new broom sweeps clean.

Fresh slate all around.

Edited March 23, 2013 by dee-luded

[Dee Fan 3,247]

New Cat lands on his feet

Gee Garry is that right? With all your mates in charge and with two coaches that you picked?

Our greatest ally would be for you not to "help" us any more.

I must confess I can't see your point; Lyon is just stating what we all know, that there are factions in the club, that have, and are, trying to white ant those in charge. Are you suggesting that Lyon appointed the coach, the board, the executives, and those that are doing the white anting?

Or are you suggesting they are white anting themselves?

I can't see anything wrong with the article, there are white anters and I guess we know who some of them are, and some know who all of them are, they are probably part of the white ant faction. Look no further than this board.

[Gorgoroth 13,016]

Maybe he also should have wrote;

"And for those other years Rivers could not physically out of bed, the MFC stood by Rivers and gave him a new contract."

[1964nowMORE 491]

I found the article bang on to the truth as I'd expect it to be written. Like many long time footballers In struggling clubs Rivers has played some very good football for a decent time, without any real reward or broader public recognition since his first year.

I met with a senior figure working with Geelong this week and he talked about this initial connections with Riv, stating that Riv was thrilled to be in a culture/club that simply reeked of success. Every where you turn at Kardinia Park you run into some serious people. This same person, a serious cats fan and very very senior business exec also stated his belief that Geelong "were never going to win a flag in the 90s as the culture basis wasn't there", but geez they went close a lot! While I think we'd all be thrilled with four GF appearances in the next ten years I fully understand his point. He believed until Cook and Costa took over the Cats were never serious. For me this article highlights the core issue with our club, we all, me included still accept too much mediocrity because we've lost sight of what true success means for our club. Outside of my beloved Demons I coach in elite sport, not AFL, and with a club that is the exact opposite, 3 flags in our last 7 years....two of those wins we clearly weren't the most talented team, but won very tight grand finals because our culture/team ethos and belief is success was better than there's.

We have a long way to go, a long long way actually. I'm excited more about this season than any other recently because for the first time in years I believe in a coach and fitness guru who know, strive for and demand elite performance. Next I'd like a business admin team that demands the same. I do believe C Schwab gives his absolute all, and is in the best 18 CEOs on Australia for an AFL club....I just don't rate being best 18, I want best 3-5 in all roles.....as WCE or the cats have had for years.

End of rant. Go Mitch and JV, can't wait to see you pumping the port boys next week.

[SidVicious 130]

Perhaps we should replace him with the Ox. He seems to be back in the good books.

Is there enough room for Brock McLean?

[rpfc 28,727]

Love him or loathe him, he certainly plays a unique role at our footy club. It surrounds us and penetrates us; it binds our galaxy together.

[Whispering_Jack 30,573]

The problem with commentators in the media is that they sometimes strive too hard to demonstrate their capacity to be non partisan when discussing their (former) clubs. I'm not sure what Lyon was thinking when he wrote this story in this way. Too close to the bone and unnecessary because it was always going to end up reflecting on him and drawing the sort of criticism he's received.

There are of course, other layers to the Jared Rivers story that Lyon failed to cover. Was Rivers really distracted by the goings on at the club over recent years? What happened to the former rising star and where was his progress as a footballer beyond 2004 when he had the world at his feet? Rivers isn't exactly on big money at Geelong but did Melbourne put up much of a fight to retain the 28 year old and if not, why not? How much of a loss is he to a young Melbourne list that contains names like Frawley, Garland, T. McDonald and Watts as its main taller defenders?

In other words, there's another side of the coin that interests me but it's not Rivers because he means no more to Melbourne's future today than he did when the club reviewed its list at the end of the 2012 season and decided he wasn't worth fighting hard enough to retain. Same goes for Moloney and the others. I want to read what Lyon writes about Mitch Clark, Jimmy Toumpas and Jesse Hogan, not them.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

The problem with commentators in the media is that they sometimes strive too hard to demonstrate their capacity to be non partisan when discussing their (former) clubs. I'm not sure what Lyon was thinking when he wrote this story in this way. Too close to the bone and unnecessary because it was always going to end up reflecting on him and drawing the sort of criticism he's received.

There are of course, other layers to the Jared Rivers story that Lyon failed to cover. Was Rivers really distracted by the goings on at the club over recent years? What happened to the former rising star and where was his progress as a footballer beyond 2004 when he had the world at his feet? Rivers isn't exactly on big money at Geelong but did Melbourne put up much of a fight to retain the 28 year old and if not, why not? How much of a loss is he to a young Melbourne list that contains names like Frawley, Garland, T. McDonald and Watts as its main taller defenders?

In other words, there's another side of the coin that interests me but it's not Rivers because he means no more to Melbourne's future today than he did when the club reviewed its list at the end of the 2012 season and decided he wasn't worth fighting hard enough to retain. Same goes for Moloney and the others. I want to read what Lyon writes about Mitch Clark, Jimmy Toumpas and Jesse Hogan, not them.

My opinion on the article is it's more about Lyon's frustration with the bickering and factions at the club than it is about Riv.

Essentially he is saying that as long as it continues; why would any player want to play for the club.

[The heart beats true 18,144]

I think it's time we accepted that Garry uses his relationship with the MFC to benefit his media career, not the other way round. He doesn't get paid to support us and he's honestly expressed frustration about being asked to do anything for the club. I think it's time we stopped asking for his help and instead acknowledge that the advice he has given hasn't been good.

Having said that what he says about the club is all true, the problem is that it's really just making it harder for us at this point. We know we suck, the whole world knows we suck. Pointing it out is pointless.

And, if Riv struggles in a much more ruthless environment then he won't be sleeping well, he'll be waking up for the early game like Cam Bruce before him.

[timD 994]

I must confess I can't see your point; Lyon is just stating what we all know, that there are factions in the club, that have, and are, trying to white ant those in charge. Are you suggesting that Lyon appointed the coach, the board, the executives, and those that are doing the white anting?

Or are you suggesting they are white anting themselves?

I can't see anything wrong with the article, there are white anters and I guess we know who some of them are, and some know who all of them are, they are probably part of the white ant faction. Look no further than this board.

Slanderous nonsense. Put up or shut up, Robbie. Either prove it or go away and make it permanent.

Sniper.

[Little Goffy 14,634]

The article is all about putting a line through the past at Melbourne. Acknowledging it's failure as a club, the relentless backstabbing and mad politics, the acceptance of mediocrity as a standard, and the sanctimonious sniping at anyone who pointed out these things.

It says Rivers, but it actually means everyone. It's says Geelong, but it is actually aboutt he whole concept of a professional and competent culture.

Believe it or not, the article has a subtext that Garry Lyon feels like things are gonna be ok now at Melbourne.

[Sir Why You Little 37,119]

The article is all about putting a line through the past at Melbourne. Acknowledging it's failure as a club, the relentless backstabbing and mad politics, the acceptance of mediocrity as a standard, and the sanctimonious sniping at anyone who pointed out these things.

It says Rivers, but it actually means everyone. It's says Geelong, but it is actually aboutt he whole concept of a professional and competent culture.

Believe it or not, the article has a subtext that Garry Lyon feels like things are gonna be ok now at Melbourne.

Well said LG. I thought the same thing when i read it.

G Lyon is not a messiah of the MFC, but he is no fool either.