Will Neale Daniher ever coach again?

[Bossdog 2,002]

Yawn...is it that hard to work out?

One Word....ROLLERCOASTER. above Average year....Shite year....above average year....shite year...etc etc.

what other club went through such a schitzophrenic period than the MFC under ND?

We obviously had the talent there..Could ND harness it...No. Sadly he failed.

He is a top bloke but his 10 years of coaching represented lost opportunities of the highest order.

Those who disagree have never pushed through that pain barrier...

Maybe he was a good coach who got the most of a fairly average list

If we had not made the finals during those years,maybe just maybe you could be right......But there are lots of coach that don't get into GFs

Lyon must be a bad coach...never won a cup....

Eade must be a bad coach "

And the list goes on.....Just give credit where it's due....

[Macca 16,644]

They all can coach, but just not good enough at the top level.

tried, tested, & rejected.... its just that we are sucked in by niceness first.

and the result is a soft playing style, soft training, undisciplined & soft footy acts onfield.

we've done it over & over again, for 40 odd years out of 50 something.

We were on the right track with Barass, but would have been better with a development type coach first, then had Barass come in after with his hard edge.

Danners & Balme were both nice guys, loved by all of us, but not the right choices.

...and here we are again, rejigging the club.

....... we are, in the old vernacular, soft touches.

Fowler said Big Carl was the best coach he played under. Considering that Laurie was coached by Hafey and Barassi that is high praise indeed. Ditterich had a poor list to work with. Wrong place, wrong time.

Players make coaches although I believe a poor coach can wreck even the best players. Mark of a great coach is the ability to get the best out of the best players and the most out of the rest. It's difficult to judge a coach if he hasn't got enough good players.

We did not have a great list under Daniher - that much is true and can't be disputed. But we had a good/fair list which Daniher was able to coach into 6 finals series.

[stuie 7,374]

Where did i say we were due for anything?

The Rollercoaster is a fact that you happily accept.

I find it a a disgraceful piece of history. Summed up beautifully in the 2nd & 3rd Q's of the Adelaide Final in 2002.

Brilliant but also shockingly flaky with a weak underbelly.

Only the ND coached MFC could lose a game in which we also played some of the best footy ever played.

Call me a fool if you wish Stuie. But i am right.

You can find Daniher's era a "rollercoaster" (fair enough), but "disgraceful" is just a plain wrong call, so no, you're NOT right. We played finals and made a GF, those are the facts mate.

[Sir Why You Little 36,668]

You can find Daniher's era a "rollercoaster" (fair enough), but "disgraceful" is just a plain wrong call, so no, you're NOT right. We played finals and made a GF, those are the facts mate.

aah Stuie we will just never agree.

You are just not tough enough on yourself. You accept 2nd best gleefully.

Yes we made a GF In 2000. I was there, queued up at the MCC gate at 1am with my dad....we got absolutely thrashed in a game as i have previously stated was over at the 10 minute mark....BUT what was even worse was in 2001 we failed to make the Finals. So we not only did not LEARN from 2000 to get better, but no we went Backwards.

Do you understand my point?

Alan Jeans is a great coach..when Hawthorn lost a GF they always came back harder the next year

John Northey was pretty close to Jeansy but did not have the raw talent. He still got us to September continuously for 5 years.

ND had more talent at his disposal but could not get it to gell with any consistency...thus he was badly flawed in the job.

IMO he should have been moved on at the end of 2002.

We knew by then what he was capable of.

Close yes & a top bloke, but flawed as a senior AFL Coach in a big way.

[ThreeOneSix 954]

Not a fan of Daniher, wasn't fazed with Bailey - as he didn't have the cattle, big fan of Neeld's, his turnover of the list alone is worthy of his appointment.

He has got rid of a lot of spuds and soft players and brought in hardnuts and blokes who want to have a dip.

But, I admit Daniher did make a big effort in the media, was quite likable and was good for the club at the time.

His list management skills and gameday tactics left little to be desired though.

He did have a far better list than Bailey, who was basically just thrown under the bus in his gig with the club.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Fowler said Big Carl was the best coach he played under. Considering that Laurie was coached by Hafey and Barassi that is high praise indeed. Ditterich had a poor list to work with. Wrong place, wrong time.

Players make coaches although I believe a poor coach can wreck even the best players. Mark of a great coach is the ability to get the best out of the best players and the most out of the rest. It's difficult to judge a coach if he hasn't got enough good players.

We did not have a great list under Daniher - that much is true and can't be disputed. But we had a good/fair list which Daniher was able to coach into 6 finals series.

players are prone to having their favourites, just like us supporters do.

But the smart footy people know better than the rest, what makes a winning side whist half the competition have struggled to identify that intangible.

probably more players say Barrassi is an a*rs#h0le, than the ones who love him & swear by him.

But its the great ones who have done the ultimate journey who swear by him.

the truth is most footy people dont see it, but the ones who do, you'd hope are in positions of power within the club. they're the ones who go on like your frank Costers & Brian Cooks & the Leigh Mathews, the John Kennedy's & Alan Jeans.the losers mentality is they lose they're good ones to smarter operators.

The saints lost Jeans to the Hawks.

We lost Barassi to the Blues.

The key is to have good people who can identify the the good ones.

We seem to recruit who'll fit in with our culture, rather than get someone to change our culture for the better.

finally we have someone with balls.

lets see how it goes.

[My TD 156]

Lyon must be a bad coach...never won a cup....

Took over a talented list coming into their prime and never won a cup.

Wrung it dry failing to develop young players and then suddenly left for another list coming into their prime.

[Guest]

I'm a big believer in calling things as I see them. We all get carried away when a new regime comes in and we can only see the positives. Making judgments about the totality of a coach's efforts is a process that takes 3 years at minimum. We can't say that Neeld is the greatest thing since curly fries were invented as he is too early in. I like what he has done in this off season but my final judgement is some way off.

I also believe that history needs to be told as it is. Was ND a coach who was the caliber of Norm Smith, John Kennedy or even Kevin Sheedy? No. I would put him on the level of coaches such as Rocket Eade, John Northey and Terry Wallace (in his Bulldog days). Good (and I stress good, not great) coaches who got the most out of what they had to work with who fell short of the ultimate. To pretend that Neale somehow stuffed the club is an absolute joke. He had already been at the helm of two rebuilds of the club and had produced a finals quality team at the end of both. It was decided that he had been at the club for too long and due to that, it would have been better to have someone else in charge of the rebuild. It wasn't because he was the worst coach since Don Scott at South Adelaide. It was because his time at the Melbourne FC had been a long one, the club had hit a nadir and it was time for a new voice and new ideas. It was never because he was, and had always been, a bad coach.

I would like to know if the people who bag Daniher now were all gung ho about Dean Bailey? I remember getting told once on the 'ology that Bailey was here to institute standards that Daniher neglected. If skipping time trials and cruising King Street for alcohol and poontang were part of those standards, I would say 'mission accomplished'.

For the record, I took the same approach with Dean Bailey as I am now taking with Mark Neeld. The first three years I was circumspect. By year four, I realized the tail was wagging the dog and the team consisted of stick beetles who went to water when pressure was applied. ND's teams sometimes would lose some absolute gimmes but at least there were times they would win the close ones and fight back. Did Bailey's teams ever do that?

BTW Deeluded, you seem to have a fairly selective view of history. You seem to omit the entire John Northey era from your timeline of the MFC. For the record, Swooper was a good coach like Neale. Not a brilliant one, but a good one.

P.S. I once said on the 'What will happen here if we start winning?' thread that people on here will start burbling on about how they don't just want to win in the regular season and in the finals, THEY WANT A FLAG! To those people who knock consistent success just short of the ultimate, I would say keep a little perspective. I would take the Daniher years every day of the week and twice on Sundays over the Bailey era/Year 1 of the Neeld era.

Edited March 4, 2013 by Guest

[My TD 156]

I would take the Daniher years every day of the week and twice on Sundays over the Bailey era/Year 1 of the Neeld era.

I'd take 1 Premiership year of Norm Smith over all your Daniher years.

[Lord Travis 10,492]

Brilliant post Colin B. F., and pretty much sums up exactly what I think. Daniher was a good coach, but had been at the club a long time and it was time for a change with another rebuild.
As someone who was born in the 80s and can only really remember footy from the 90s onwards, Daniher is the best coach we've had in that time. He delivered us the most success, even if it wasn't a premiership, and got the most out of the list and resources he had to work with. I loved the Danhier years, and I miss going to the footy thinking we would win. Since he departed the club it has been torture going to watch our boys play. It's embarrassing, and has been for 6-7 years now, yet we're still down the bottom and rebuilding. God help us if we don't improve this year and it gets to 8 years without finals. I never thought we'd be in the situation where we became a joke like a Richmond or Fitzroy, but it's happening Miss Daniher!

[stuie 7,374]

aah Stuie we will just never agree.

You are just not tough enough on yourself. You accept 2nd best gleefully.

Yes we made a GF In 2000. I was there, queued up at the MCC gate at 1am with my dad....we got absolutely thrashed in a game as i have previously stated was over at the 10 minute mark....BUT what was even worse was in 2001 we failed to make the Finals. So we not only did not LEARN from 2000 to get better, but no we went Backwards.

Do you understand my point?

Alan Jeans is a great coach..when Hawthorn lost a GF they always came back harder the next year

John Northey was pretty close to Jeansy but did not have the raw talent. He still got us to September continuously for 5 years.

ND had more talent at his disposal but could not get it to gell with any consistency...thus he was badly flawed in the job.

IMO he should have been moved on at the end of 2002.

We knew by then what he was capable of.

Close yes & a top bloke, but flawed as a senior AFL Coach in a big way.

Mate, where did I say ND is one of the all time greats? ALL I'M SAYING is it's pi55 poor the amount of disrespect you are showing a guy who got us to a GF.

[Guest]

I'd take 1 Premiership year of Norm Smith over all your Daniher years.

As would I. However, I was born in the 1980's. I'm realistic nonetheless. While I would love a premiership, it's not going to happen next year.

Half of the club's problems stem from the fact that we live in the past. It's ironic I say that as I have spent about 300 words defending ND. That being said, would I want Melbourne to bring him back as head coach tomorrow? No, because that time has passed. If Norm Smith were alive today, would I want him back as coach? No, because like Daniher, that time has also passed.

While I don't want to move back to the leadership of the past, I don't accept a historical whitewash.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Mate, where did I say ND is one of the all time greats? ALL I'M SAYING is it's pi55 poor the amount of disrespect you are showing a guy who got us to a GF.

Hmmn, about as good as Grant Thomas. toss a coin.

[RalphiusMaximus 6,012]

I've said it before and I'll probably say it again, but I think NDs gameplan would have been pretty good against the modern press. The long kick to a strong marking CHF who then gives off to a running small would have been fine in today's game.

That being said, it seems pretty clear that he wasn't the best manager of people, so perhaps he'd be more use as an assistant coach or somewhere in the FD not dealing directly with the players.

[Swampfox 190]

As a player Neale was technically the most gifted of the Daniher brothers

Getting a team to a grand final irrespective of the result should not be sneezed at

Always respected him but not a huge fan of his coaching

I thought Neil Balme was better but IMO Northey has been the best coach at Melbourne since Norm Smith

I hope i can change that opinion within 2 - 3 years

I would say the gate has been shut on Neales Senior coaching aspirations

[Demonsterative 3,018]

I read in one thread about Royal not having the cattle, but Daniher didnt have the cattle either. Yes he had Yze, Green, Robbo and Nietz who was our best player. But Nieta was a very very good player, yet he was not a Hird, Buckley, etc etc. Daniher got the best out of the squad he had.

A very good coach IMO. His big failure was not caoching a solid defensive unit. But he never had the cattle to be defensive.

[Sir Why You Little 36,668]

Mate, where did I say ND is one of the all time greats? ALL I'M SAYING is it's pi55 poor the amount of disrespect you are showing a guy who got us to a GF.

ok Stuie for the last time.

Please tell me what happened in 2001. That year to me is far mor important than 2000.

I have explained my POV.

[Macca 16,644]

players are prone to having their favourites, just like us supporters do.

But the smart footy people know better than the rest, what makes a winning side whist half the competition have struggled to identify that intangible.

probably more players say Barrassi is an a*rs#h0le, than the ones who love him & swear by him.

But its the great ones who have done the ultimate journey who swear by him.

the truth is most footy people dont see it, but the ones who do, you'd hope are in positions of power within the club. they're the ones who go on like your frank Costers & Brian Cooks & the Leigh Mathews, the John Kennedy's & Alan Jeans.the losers mentality is they lose they're good ones to smarter operators.

The saints lost Jeans to the Hawks.

We lost Barassi to the Blues.

The key is to have good people who can identify the the good ones.

We seem to recruit who'll fit in with our culture, rather than get someone to change our culture for the better.

finally we have someone with balls.

lets see how it goes.

Since the advent of the National Draft we've seen a few teams that have built great lists . Maybe putting aside the Hawks of the late 80's and early 90's we've had the Eagles, Crows(?), Lions and Cats. North were another team that had a very good list although Carey made a huge difference.

That's 3-5 Clubs that could be described as having top notch lists in the last 20 odd years. Every other premiership winning Club has had a fair sprinkling of very good to great players. Have we ever had a premiership list in that same time period? No.

Daniher had reasonably good lists in most years but didn't have enough very good to great players to win a flag. For whatever reason we've never had the players. Not sure because of these reasons that Daniher should be viewed harshly. The counter argument is Daniher did reasonably well to get the team into the finals on a regular basis.

Edited March 4, 2013 by Macca

[dee-luded 2,959]

I read in one thread about Royal not having the cattle, but Daniher didnt have the cattle either. Yes he had Yze, Green, Robbo and Nietz who was our best player. But Nieta was a very very good player, yet he was not a Hird, Buckley, etc etc. Daniher got the best out of the squad he had.

A very good coach IMO. His big failure was not caoching a solid defensive unit. But he never had the cattle to be defensive.

A coaches role is to develop your players into better players. improve their weaknesses.

and to instill a strong & winning culture.

as well as making sure the list is being grown from underneath, & from mature recruits.

the daniher reign,,, the whole club, admin' & board left the list & culture in a threadbare state.

We were full of players who wouldn't work hard when we didn't have the ball. Wouldn't chase, tackle, or work hard out on the track to get the elite fitness & strength in the Gym.

playtime at the zoo. this is why other clubs scoff at us over the last 10 years or so.

Its not us who are disrespecting past coaches but Players of other clubs who think we're a joke. They laugh at us & have done so for more than a decade.

It's just that one went public finally last year, saying what all other clubs thought.

lets list the failures:

* Robbo no chase or defensive attitude.

* Yze, wouldn't work hard enough off the track to become an elite midfielder. complained when played deep.

* White, always got the easy mark & kick in the back half thru out his 2nd half of career.

* Neita, nice guy who couldn't pull the others into line. a wasted last few years of his career.

* Green, learnt from the rest.

* Bruce, didn't continue his development after the first few years, A fitness fanatic, who didn't improve on his skills enough. Soft cheap kicks at the kickout. ended up a tagger.

* youth, all ended up spoilt by the soft culture festering at the club. no one wanted to tackle except Jnr.

* Lamb, another we could have got more from

* Schwartz, not in Danihers good books, but one of our best.

No wonder our recent kids were all soft.

All in all a wasted 10 years, + some, to repair all that residue.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Since the advent of the National Draft we've seen a few teams that have built great lists . Maybe putting aside the Hawks of the late 80's and early 90's we've had the Eagles, Crows(?), Lions and Cats.

That's 4 Clubs that could be described as having top notch lists in the last 20 odd years. Every other premiership winning Club has had a fair sprinkling of very good to great players. Have we ever had a premiership list ? No.

Northey and Daniher had reasonably good lists but not enough very good to great players to win a flag. For whatever reason we've never had the players. So we can't really say that any of our coaches that got our team into finals were failures. The better argument is that these coaches did well to get the team into the finals.(in the case of Northey and Daniher, they got the team into the finals on a consistent basis)

Capitol "C"...

Cullture, Culture, Culture.

Why do you think it took Barassi/Jordan 5 years to reshape the club. it took its toll as Barassi was losing support among some, as it was taking so long.

They were cherry ripe to go, but needed some more talent added.

Step in Schwab, with Steven Stretch one year, then add Spalding, Dean, Viney, Koop, & others.

Northey was away, a good list of competitors at a club that had done the hard work on its culture. Time was right to go.

The bad thing is after 7 or 8 years of high quality footy, the club started to let it slip.

The Barassi-Northey Era should have been the platform (camp iv),,, to consolidate at, before the final climb to the Mt Everest Peak.

http://www.google.com.au/imgres?imgurl=http://www.adlers.com.au/images/everestroutemap.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.adlers.com.au/aboutclimbing.php&h=270&w=385&sz=66&tbnid=lOrzZoTjhxpldM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=128&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dmt%2Beverest%2Bclimb%2Bstages%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=mt+everest+climb+stages&usg=__4D58pdPgxIBQ_QhgG6ORFUMDf54=&docid=SdFnlqN270RjdM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=-U40UYKlOYa_kgXu4oHIDw&ved=0CGIQ9QEwBQ&dur=780

the club blew all the hard work and slipped back.

[Demonsterative 3,018]

ok Stuie for the last time.

Please tell me what happened in 2001. That year to me is far mor important than 2000.

I have explained my POV.

My memory may serve me wrong, but didnt our backline fall to pieces in 2001 due to injury? Ingerson retired due to injury and we didn't have a replacment. Was that the year a very young Chris Lamb played as the only KPB and Bizzell was playing CHB at 187cm (or there abouts) tall.

If this is the year, Danners played an all out offensive game with the knowledge our backline could not hold teams to low scores. So he focussed on offense trying to kick 20 goals a games outscoring the opposition. I would have thought that his coaching was inventive and creative knowing that he had to work to his strengths rather than allow the opposition expose our very inefficient weakness in the back half.

If my memory is correct Danners coached very well in 2001. He knew he didnt have the backline to win a premiership, but he took the team into finals despite the backline falling to pieces.

Either way, I'm not sure how 2001 is more important than 2000. 2000 was a bloody good effort against a team that only lost 1 home and away game. We were underdogs against the Blues who were full of stars in the prelim. Bruce and Green won us games as 1st year players in that finals series too.

[Bossdog 2,002]

It's a waste of time argueing with you blokes......You sit back in hindsight and bag the past coaches and players and blame all for not giving you a premiership......

For me I enjoyed those years ...I don't blame all for not winning everything

You can go though each club and pick holes ten years later.......

Look at Richmond....Two finals appearences since 1980......We made the grand final in 2000 and were beaten by a team that were nearly invincible....and you're still bitching and moaning......

[Demonsterative 3,018]

A coaches role is to develop your players into better players. improve their weaknesses.

and to instill a strong & winning culture.

as well as making sure the list is being grown from underneath, & from mature recruits.

the daniher reign,,, the whole club, admin' & board left the list & culture in a threadbare state.

We were full of players who wouldn't work hard when we didn't have the ball. Wouldn't chase, tackle, or work hard out on the track to get the elite fitness & strength in the Gym.

playtime at the zoo. this is why other clubs scoff at us over the last 10 years or so.

Its not us who are disrespecting past coaches but Players of other clubs who think we're a joke. They laugh at us & have done so for more than a decade.

It's just that one went public finally last year, saying what all other clubs thought.

lets list the failures:

* Robbo no chase or defensive attitude.

* Yze, wouldn't work hard enough off the track to become an elite midfielder. complained when played deep.

* White, always got the easy mark & kick in the back half thru out his 2nd half of career.

* Neita, nice guy who couldn't pull the others into line. a wasted last few years of his career.

* Green, learnt from the rest.

* Bruce, didn't continue his development after the first few years, A fitness fanatic, who didn't improve on his skills enough. Soft cheap kicks at the kickout. ended up a tagger.

* youth, all ended up spoilt by the soft culture festering at the club. no one wanted to tackle except Jnr.

* Lamb, another we could have got more from

* Schwartz, not in Danihers good books, but one of our best.

No wonder our recent kids were all soft.

All in all a wasted 10 years, + some, to repair all that residue.

You may be right in parts Dee-luded. But there is another side to your story

Robbo - kicked bags of goals. As a HFF kick over 50 goals.

Yze - All Aust with a fantasic left foot

White - his athletic ability was amazing before the new circle rule for ruckman. HE was also very well known for his ability to play as an extra midfielder. Something other uckman could not negate.

Nieta - His ability to lead men on field was very good. Always put his body in and hurt the opposition physicallly. kicked bags of goas. All Aust as CHB and FF. Games and goal record holder. In short, club champion

I could go on but I will agree Danners went down hill in the end of his tenure. But his early years were very very good.

[dee-luded 2,959]

It's a waste of time argueing with you blokes......You sit back in hindsight and bag the past coaches and players and blame all for not giving you a premiership......

For me I enjoyed those years ...I don't blame all for not winning everything

You can go though each club and pick holes ten years later.......

Look at Richmond....Two finals appearences since 1980......We made the grand final in 2000 and were beaten by a team that were nearly invincible....and you're still bitching and moaning......

why look at the bottom dwellers.

We need to look at the top dwellers, to see, & learn, & to become strong ourselves.

I'm glad you aren't on our board or Admin.

Because this is meant as a 'positive' to push forward towards, to learn & to improve. It Has Nothing to do with being pessimistic.

It's all about a desire to change for the better.

[dee-luded 2,959]

You may be right in parts Dee-luded. But there is another side to your story

Robbo - kicked bags of goals. As a HFF kick over 50 goals.

Yze - All Aust with a fantasic left foot

White - his athletic ability was amazing before the new circle rule for ruckman. HE was also very well known for his ability to play as an extra midfielder. Something other uckman could not negate.

Nieta - His ability to lead men on field was very good. Always put his body in and hurt the opposition physicallly. kicked bags of goas. All Aust as CHB and FF. Games and goal record holder. In short, club champion

I could go on but I will agree Danners went down hill in the end of his tenure. But his early years were very very good.

Well if all we want is a show, we have had that. And the circus is coming to town soon as well.

After 47 odd years of despair, its time our people rubbing shoulders with those at the top, demanded success from them.

shape up or ship out.