I am not sold on McKenzie either. Aside from his ability as a tagger which is great against some but limited against certain player types and his tackling I dont see much else. He is poor by foot, cant spread and offers nothing at all offensively. There are not many pure taggers these days and unless he can bring other strings to his bow he will be pushed out by better players who have a balance of offensive and defensive capabilities.

there is a lot to like in McKenzie but I think your comments are fair

he needs to develop other aspects of his game or he will be left behind

Jetta, Frawley, Dunn

Terlich, Tmac, Watts

Sylvia, Grimes, Trengove

Howe, Clark, Pederson

Byrnes, Dawes, Blease

Jamar, Jones, Viney

Rodan, Toumpas, Nicholson

Davey

Garland, Spencer, Taggert

This shows me how we will struggle again this year.

If Grimes is our best option in the centre (and Im not discounting Big red's assessment), Jones and Viney will be exhausted quickly.

His back is dodgy.

He is not fast or quick. Brent Moloney couldnt bend his back either but was strong and fast.

Grimes is a smarter player, good overhead and He makes good decisions but doesnt have enough speed to be clean under pressure.

As some-one else said, as a Centreman he makes a good HBF.

I would have Kent instead of Nicho on the bench.

McKenzie is only 22, he has youth on his side. He has time to fine tune his game, and he will because he is hungry like the wolf.

This shows me how we will struggle again this year.

If Grimes is our best option in the centre (and Im not discounting Big red's assessment), Jones and Viney will be exhausted quickly.

His back is dodgy.

He is not fast or quick. Brent Moloney couldnt bend his back either but was strong and fast.

Grimes is a smarter player, good overhead and He makes good decisions but doesnt have enough speed to be clean under pressure.

As some-one else said, as a Centreman he makes a good HBF.

I would have Kent instead of Nicho on the bench.

A few things:

- Being named in the centre just means you're playing in the midfield rotation.

Whether it's Jones, Trengove, Viney, Byrnes; it doesn't matter.

- Grimes had back stress fractures in his first season.

When was the last time he was out injured with back issues?

- Grimes is fast and quick, especially compared to the sluggish Moloney.

His only strength was brute force.

- Grimes, as before, has speed. But that also has nothing to do with cleanliness with the ball.

But seriously, you need to watch more football.

Edited January 19, 201312 yr by José Mourinho

Grimes main concern is his Hamstrings, just like his brother, i thought frankys post was a pretty fair post, once again though Jose has to throw in a snide remark at the end of his.

Grimes main concern is his Hamstrings, just like his brother, i thought frankys post was a pretty fair post, once again though Jose has to throw in a snide remark at the end of his.

I thought it was a fair point.

None of this things are terribly complicated or obscure, and I don't know them because I'm particularly smart - it just comes from watching football.

When I see so many inaccuracies, it has me wondering "What the hell has he been watching? Does he watch at all? Or form his opinions based on what he hears from commentators and blokes down at the pub?", because these things are all relatively plain to see.

When I see so many inaccuracies, it has me wondering "What the hell has he been watching? Does he watch at all? Or form his opinions based on what he hears from commentators and blokes down at the pub?", because these things are all relatively plain to see.

They may be inaccuracies to you but it is my opinion and you should say that your view is your opinion.

I havent been to training this year but other than that, I watch a lot of football, and see most Demons matches.

But no worries really, I wont argue with you as I dont rate you.

Being clean with disposal comes down to being able to assess and dispose fast and accurately.

It is easy to dispose correctly when there is plenty of time to do so. Grime's kicking is very accurate unless he is under pressure and in my opinion he is not very QUICK and this is when he misses targets occasionally.

Not always but enough to make me think that he would be either better placed as an outside runner or a flank. He isnt FAST enough to be an outside runner so thats why I think his skills are better suited to a Half Back Flank.

Edited January 19, 201312 yr by Franky_31

This shows me how we will struggle again this year.

If Grimes is our best option in the centre (and Im not discounting Big red's assessment), Jones and Viney will be exhausted quickly.

His back is dodgy.

He is not fast or quick. Brent Moloney couldnt bend his back either but was strong and fast.

Grimes is a smarter player, good overhead and He makes good decisions but doesnt have enough speed to be clean under pressure.

As some-one else said, as a Centreman he makes a good HBF.

I would have Kent instead of Nicho on the bench.

funny, i never saw moloney as fast - moloney had no good lateral movement, but grimesy does

personally i see grimes and moloney as very different players

i also don't really see grimsey as a mid. i preferred him on a hbf

B : Nicholson Frawley Garland

HB : Tapscott McDonald Watts

C : Grimes Sylvia Toumpas*

HF : Blease Clark Trengove

F : Byrnes* Dawes* Pedersen*

R : Jamar N Jones Viney*

INT : Kent* Howe McKenzie

SUB : Rodan*

Emergencies : Barry*, Terlich*, Matt Jones*

* indicates new

Edit : The old 'us against them' mentality can never be discounted in sport. Maybe Neeld can tap into the psyche of the list and instill that attitude. Coupled with that, other teams may believe that we're vulnerable and underestimate our team.

Edited January 22, 201312 yr by Macca

From all reports, Dunn & Davey sound like they will be getting a game round 1 ....

From all reports, Dunn & Davey sound like they will be getting a game round 1 ....

So do about 30 others at this time. There is good competition for spots based on training reports.

Being clean with disposal comes down to being able to assess and dispose fast and accurately.

It is easy to dispose correctly when there is plenty of time to do so. Grime's kicking is very accurate unless he is under pressure and in my opinion he is not very QUICK and this is when he misses targets occasionally.

Not always but enough to make me think that he would be either better placed as an outside runner or a flank. He isnt FAST enough to be an outside runner so thats why I think his skills are better suited to a Half Back Flank.

In my opinion Grimes tends to fluff kicks when under very little pressure.

I also don't think Moloney is quick, but he doesn't play for us anymore so it's even less relevant.

Think this is a balanced team. There will likely be a few more harder body players recruited in the last 1-2 years in there such as Magner, Taggert, Kent etc.

B : Strauss Frawley Garland

HB : Tapscott McDonald Watts

C : Grimes Trengove Sylvia

HF : Blease Clark Howe

F : Pedersen Dawes Byrnes

R : Jamar N.Jones Viney

INT : Davey Toumpas McKenzie

SUB : Rodan

Emergencies any of the following depending on injuries, form or needs: Nicholson, Magner, Dunn, Jetta, Spencer, Taggert, Terlich

I think that there is a lack of love for Matt Jones.

He was recruited as a mature midfielder and he was very impressive today at training. I've heard very little about him in the training reports this summer, which is surprising given that he would have been recruited to play a role fairly quickly. He was very good in close, a good size and also ran very well. I'd be surprised if he wasn't playing round 1, or at least being right on the cusp of selection.

To me, Jones looks to be what we should have hoped Gysberts would become in the next couple of years.

Before trading him, that is.

I think that there is a lack of love for Matt Jones.

He was recruited as a mature midfielder and he was very impressive today at training. I've heard very little about him in the training reports this summer, which is surprising given that he would have been recruited to play a role fairly quickly. He was very good in close, a good size and also ran very well. I'd be surprised if he wasn't playing round 1, or at least being right on the cusp of selection.

Same argument for Dean Terlich. I was impressed with him the couple of times I've seen him.

I think that there is a lack of love for Matt Jones.

He was recruited as a mature midfielder and he was very impressive today at training. I've heard very little about him in the training reports this summer, which is surprising given that he would have been recruited to play a role fairly quickly. He was very good in close, a good size and also ran very well. I'd be surprised if he wasn't playing round 1, or at least being right on the cusp of selection.

45. Matt Jones

With the limited time that he’s had at the club over the pre-season, we’ve been really impressed with Matt, particularly from a football point-of-view. He needs to get stronger in the gym, but that will come with further time in the program. – Brian Royal

Wonder whether his strength improvement is a requirement for selection?

Gee I love this time of year.......So many fit players to fit in to so few positions....without a ball kicked in anger......

New players are going to be stars.......Old players are going to improve out of sight.....Injured players now fit and ready to explode

Hopes are high.....DL's picking their best teams and argueing about the merits of certain players......and all hanging out for every little bit of news from the club

So much better than late August ..Sept of the past 5, 6 years...

I love it...

All this tanking discussion has got me thinking about how we have recruited this October - it's the anti-tank...

Removing of slight bodies that we would have peservered with in a previous incarnation of the club: Morton, Gysberts, Bennell, et al. and replacing them with experienced and/or bigger bodied players who can contribute from day one.

It's a healthier exercise what we are doing now. And places a high standard on the 22 that runs out there each week.

It is the major thing that I have learnt over these long 5 years - you can't just throw kids, however talented, into the AFL and hope it all comes together in the end (while this may seem glib the fact that MacDonald and Campbell were the only experienced players brought into the club during the Bailey years illustrates this view).

They require established leaders to flourish, seasoned bodies to protect, and experienced players to guide.

Get in a Viney and a Hogan and a Toumpas but surround them with a Rodan and a Clark and a Byrnes.

They don't have to be world beaters but they might influence one to reach those heights.

I think 20 arrivals since Neeld became coach ...

B: Terlich Gillies Tynan

HB: Taggert Sellar Clisby

C: Toumpas Viney Barry

HF: Kent Hogan Rodan

F: Byrnes Dawes Pedersen

R: Clark M.Jones Magner

I: Couch Stark

I think 20 arrivals since Neeld became coach ...

B: Terlich Gillies Tynan

HB: Taggert Sellar Clisby

C: Toumpas Viney Barry

HF: Kent Hogan Rodan

F: Byrnes Dawes Pedersen

R: Clark M.Jones Magner

I: Couch Stark

12 players in two years that either have AFL experience, or are mature age recruits from state leagues.

Bailey and CC had 4 off-seasons and brought in MacDonald, Campbell, and Meesen...

Where did Bailey et al think the guidance was meant to come from..?

Granted, we did have a lot of older players who have since retired, but they were the same ones whose poor character and habits had us rooted to the bottom of the ladder in the first place.

B : Nicholson Frawley Garland

HB : Tapscott McDonald Watts

C : Grimes Sylvia Toumpas*

HF : Blease Clark Trengove

F : Byrnes* Dawes* Pedersen*

R : Jamar N Jones Viney*

INT : Kent* Howe McKenzie

SUB : Rodan*

Emergencies : Barry*, Terlich*, Matt Jones*

* indicates new

Edit : The old 'us against them' mentality can never be discounted in sport. Maybe Neeld can tap into the psyche of the list and instill that attitude. Coupled with that, other teams may believe that we're vulnerable and underestimate our team.

I don't mind this team however I suspect that Dunn will feature ahead of Taggert.

I'm surprised hardly anyone has included Joel Mac in the team. What is very obvious is that they are trying to put some more experience out there and Joel is our 6th most experienced player, but at the same time is only 28 so has several years left. He has recently been praised as a 'spiritual' leader by Leigh Brown. Surprisingly, he came in 6th in the latest time trial so clearly he is in very good physical nick. In terms of being hard-at-it, another quality Neeld obviously rates, you couldn't ask for more. For those who say he is a limited player, I can recall a number of varied situations where he has done some great things including important contested marks in defence. I expect him to get plenty of games in 2013.

MacDONALD FRAWLEY GARLAND

WATTS McDONALD GRIMES

BLEASE McKENZIE TRENGOVE

BYRNES DAWES HOWE

PEDERSON CLARK RODAN

JAMAR SYLVIA JONES

JETTA DAVEY VINEY TOUMPAS

Depth:

Barry, Dom

Bail, Rohan

Nicholson, Daniel

Magner, James

Tapscott, Luke

Gillies, Tom

Sellar, James

Dunn, Lynden

Spencer, Jake