It would be a massive hit. Don't kid yourself. It's what the other clubs gain whilst we get nothing.

But I think we can still trade in/out players, & free agency may be our friend, IF we are cashed up?

We are on the road to recovery, and are the last team that can afford to give up first round draft picks! What happens if Hogan ends up being gumbleton or a Mitch Thorp? Then our reserves don't look so good.

Would we be happier to be fined ? ;-(

i'd be happier being cleared, and at the moment that is the only way to think

pretty much in agreement with you. Not willing to make a call on CC yet. It is so far only Wilson who has produced a sword.

???

if any of our people were trying to do right by us, in following the lead of most other clubs methods, & vlad sanctioned methods, & put they're neck out on our behalf, we should not be looking to become the slaughterers of our sheep, like happens around other places in the world.

Surely we look out for our own, & especially when they are trying they're best for our cause.

get a grip, what a garbage thread, merge it with the other 12 FFS.

If u dont like it, do me a favour and dont reply...

???

if any of our people were trying to do right by us, in following the lead of most other clubs methods, & vlad sanctioned methods, & put they're neck out on our behalf, we should not be looking to become the slaughterers of our sheep, like happens around other places in the world.

Surely we look out for our own, & especially when they are trying they're best for our cause.

isn't that what i am saying...

It's a good and relevant thread.

I had this exact conversation with my Brother as we watched training on Monday. His view was that we'd be stuffed, but to the contrary I thought we'd be fine. Of course it would be far from ideal, but I reckon our list is in better shape than many. We've turned over a third of our list, but the core is good and some of the improvements will hold us in good stead.

Forwards - Clark, Dawes, Hogan, and Pedersen is a very sound core of talls. Add rotations with Howe, Sylvia, Tynan and the basis is set up for 5 years at least. We'll add young crumbers.

Defence - Frawley, McDonald, Watts, and Garland is also a solid group of plus 190cm defenders. Add Davis (who I like although I know many don't), Nicholson, Dunn and Strauss and I also reckon it's young with quality.

Rucks - Jamar, Gawn, Spencer with help from Clark and it's OK. Much depends on Gawn and I we need to look to add to it, but it's sound.

Mids - Jones, Grimes, Trengove, Blease, Viney, Pick 4, McKenzie, Bail, Evans, Taggert, Barry, plus rotations with Howe and Sylvia. It's no secret that we need to develop 4-5 'A' grade mids in a hurry. We're desperate for Trengove to become the player we thought he would, Blease to build his engine and provide some outside run, Viney and pick 4 to be quality, Grimes to continue his midfield journey and to unearth an unexpected top-liner, which may be a Taggert or Evans, etc.

As we've discussed ad nauseum our midfield is the issue, but theoretically it should be the easiest part of the ground to improve. A couple of genuine gun mids make it easier for those around them to step up.

Obviously not all of the players I've mentioned will make it, but I'm convinced the core will be solid and we have a sound group of "interchangeables". A lot of clubs would be very envious of our quality key position players all over the ground.

I too want to point out that I'm becoming increasingly confident that we'll keep our picks, as the evidence against us seems flimsy and more so a groundswell of group think that's taken off in the football industry, but if we can delay any possible sanction past this draft then I'll be quietly confident in our ability to weather the storm.

Finally, we're a completely different proposition to Carlton when they were sanctioned. At the end of 2002 when they were penalised their list was old. They had a few premiership players left from 1995, but they'd had it and there was a heap of crud. We're in a far better position. There's really no correlation. If you're not convinced have a look at their list at the end of 2002: http://finalsiren.com/Fixture.asp?SeasonID=2002&TeamID=14

well if we were to get through this years draft which is seeming more likely now and we have picks stripped from us in next seasons draft it probably won't have as bigger impact as some predict it will on us. This is because we have already locked away Hogan who was expected to be a top 5 pick in next years draft, so even if they were to, lets say, strip us of our first 2 picks in next seasons draft, it won't be as if we're being left empty handed as we will have a higly talented KPF who, theoretically will be a 10-12 year power forward for the club.

Im starting to think we will weather the storm from CW and the AFL.

We must get pick 4 into the club then we can just trade or FA some players in 2013.

Happy days

I really feel Mark Neeld has a strong group of players going forward.

Viney,Jones,Wines,Trengove,Magner and get a ready to go GUN for hire in 2014 like Toby Green from GWS

Edited November 6, 201212 yr by BIG JIM

Wait a minute - we might not be losing pick 4 next year, but I don't think our improvement will be THAT rapid.

Have a look at what pick 10 might get you this year.

That'd be a quality addition we're missing out on.

Having said that, I remain confident there will be no sanctions, as I have done since day one.

Edited November 6, 201212 yr by José Mourinho

Will allow us to develop a culture where winning is everything and losing bears no reward. I'd almost welcome a loss of picks.

Bit like hoping they amputate your right foot so you can become a better left foot kick.

Im starting to think we will weather the storm from CW and the AFL.

We must get pick 4 into the club then we can just trade or FA some players in 2013.

Happy days

I really feel Mark Neeld has a strong group of players going forward.

Viney,Jones,Wines,Trengove,Magner and get a ready to go GUN for hire in 2014 like Toby Green from GWS

No draft picks, no trade, no Green. Give him time 'Big Jim' he's not going to be a free agent until somewhere around 2019.

Draft picks will still be important for us going forward.

It's a good and relevant thread.

I had this exact conversation with my Brother as we watched training on Monday. His view was that we'd be stuffed, but to the contrary I thought we'd be fine. Of course it would be far from ideal, but I reckon our list is in better shape than many. We've turned over a third of our list, but the core is good and some of the improvements will hold us in good stead.

Forwards - Clark, Dawes, Hogan, and Pedersen is a very sound core of talls. Add rotations with Howe, Sylvia, Tynan and the basis is set up for 5 years at least. We'll add young crumbers.

Defence - Frawley, McDonald, Watts, and Garland is also a solid group of plus 190cm defenders. Add Davis (who I like although I know many don't), Nicholson, Dunn and Strauss and I also reckon it's young with quality.

Rucks - Jamar, Gawn, Spencer with help from Clark and it's OK. Much depends on Gawn and I we need to look to add to it, but it's sound.

Mids - Jones, Grimes, Trengove, Blease, Viney, Pick 4, McKenzie, Bail, Evans, Taggert, Barry, plus rotations with Howe and Sylvia. It's no secret that we need to develop 4-5 'A' grade mids in a hurry. We're desperate for Trengove to become the player we thought he would, Blease to build his engine and provide some outside run, Viney and pick 4 to be quality, Grimes to continue his midfield journey and to unearth an unexpected top-liner, which may be a Taggert or Evans, etc.

As we've discussed ad nauseum our midfield is the issue, but theoretically it should be the easiest part of the ground to improve. A couple of genuine gun mids make it easier for those around them to step up.

Obviously not all of the players I've mentioned will make it, but I'm convinced the core will be solid and we have a sound group of "interchangeables". A lot of clubs would be very envious of our quality key position players all over the ground.

I too want to point out that I'm becoming increasingly confident that we'll keep our picks, as the evidence against us seems flimsy and more so a groundswell of group think that's taken off in the football industry, but if we can delay any possible sanction past this draft then I'll be quietly confident in our ability to weather the storm.

Finally, we're a completely different proposition to Carlton when they were sanctioned. At the end of 2002 when they were penalised their list was old. They had a few premiership players left from 1995, but they'd had it and there was a heap of crud. We're in a far better position. There's really no correlation. If you're not convinced have a look at their list at the end of 2002: http://finalsiren.co...=2002&TeamID=14

Good read

Wait a minute - we might not be losing pick 4 next year, but I don't think our improvement will be THAT rapid.

Have a look at what pick 10 might get you this year.

That'd be a quality addition we're missing out on.

Having said that, I remain confident there will be no sanctions, as I have done since day one.

Looking at the projected depth and quality of next years draft, I'd be ropable if we were excluded from next years crop. Even with significant improvement I'd still see us having a pick in the region of pick 7. Hogan gives us insurance for the worst, but we could really position ourselves nicely if we could add a Josh Kelly, Lewis Taylor or possibly even Jack Billings depending on where we finish. Anyone of those would just about top off our developing midfield group. That said, if we didn't have access, we'd have/find players to fill the breach, they just wouldn't be of the same pedigree.

There's a nice article on list management on the AFL website (http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/150771/default.aspx), and in it they quote ex NFL coach Bill Walsh, who said "it never mattered where they were picked, it only mattered how they played". We might find ourselves referencing that in about 3 years time.

The way we have used early draft picks over the last decade

suggests to me that we would not be that badly effected If we had none in 2013.

Seems we do much better from pick 30 on anyway.

Most recruiters will tell you the early ones are the easy ones, it's the later ones that require more work. Typical MFC, making the simple difficult since 1965.

It hasn't all been bad, but yes 2007 would look a whole lot worse without Grimes coming through. A lot of angst about Lucas Cook being wasted at 12, but I think we're breaking even with Howe at 33 and McDonald at 53. If Davis ends up being a player, then I'd rate the 2010 draft a win, even if we (like every other club) did pass on Darling.

isn't that what i am saying...

To be honest WYL, I just skimmed the thread & read your post, so I may have taken you out of context?

I hope we don't look to go after any of our boys who tried to rebuild our club in a time of onfield desperation.

To me, whether they made mistakes or not, they have turned our list over, & we may have missed some but we hit on others.

I'll back all our guys to the hilt,,, including Bails, as he didn't run us down or put us in it. He did what we wanted, to rebuild.

It was the group before CC & Bails that stuffed us.

We made one footy dept mistake letting Jnr Mac go & not another senior player instead.

Drafting we wasted a couple of picks, thats all. But we have a fresh list now.

IMO a thread devoted to (conceding and) speculating penalties is sad.

Not every post but FFS

IMO a thread devoted to (conceding and) speculating penalties is sad.

Not every post but FFS

Then give us something else to talk about.....FFS

Im starting to think we will weather the storm from CW and the AFL.

We must get pick 4 into the club then we can just trade or FA some players in 2013.

Happy days

I really feel Mark Neeld has a strong group of players going forward.

Viney,Jones,Wines,Trengove,Magner and get a ready to go GUN for hire in 2014 like Toby Green from GWS

My exact thinking as I was scrolling through this thread Big Jim

It would hurt losing picks but it wouldn't be the end of the world - with FA being introduced there is now more opportunity to pick up 'replacements' for a yr or two....

PS: I don't feel at this stage we will lose our picks for this years draft

Edited November 6, 201212 yr by Unleash Hell

The way we have used early draft picks over the last decade

suggests to me that we would not be that badly effected If we had none in 2013.

Seems we do much better from pick 30 on anyway.

That may've been the case with the previous group at the MFC. with the new group handling things i feel we will draft far better as Neeld seems to have a strong direction that he plans to take us down.

It's just so lucky we have Mark Neeld.

I don't believe we should lose draft picks - I haven't yet seen ANY evidence that would justify such a sanction.

That said, because of the way Mark Neeld has restructured/tweeked our list this draft period means we are in a reasonable position to weather any storm arising from losing picks in 2014.

But I would be bloody infuriated if we were to lose picks simply because of a scurrilous media hate-campaign against certain people in the club.

I would go absolutely feral.

It's just so lucky we have Mark Neeld.

I don't believe we should lose draft picks - I haven't yet seen ANY evidence that would justify such a sanction.

That said, because of the way Mark Neeld has restructured/tweeked our list this draft period means we are in a reasonable position to weather any storm arising from losing picks in 2014.

But I would be bloody infuriated if we were to lose picks simply because of a scurrilous media hate-campaign against certain people in the club.

I would go absolutely feral.

I have a feeling Ron you may need to get your "feral" ready

The AFL have gone too far into this to come up with nothing.

IMO we will cop something to end the sorry saga that we created.

I have a feeling Ron you may need to get your "feral" ready

The AFL have gone too far into this to come up with nothing.

IMO we will cop something to end the sorry saga that we created.

You can investigate anything and everything, you can still come up with nothing, it is the proof....happens everyday in the Justice system

You can investigate anything and everything, you can still come up with nothing, it is the proof....happens everyday in the Justice system

The AFL are not the Justice system

They are a law unto themselves.

if we are penalised ,i doubt that it will be this year.

For one we are in the middle of a trade draft period, and have already traded away 2 of our top picks.

With only a couple of weeks left till the draft, its all too close .

The AFL have also said they are taking their time on this one ,and the investigation is ongoing,which could mean they could look into other clubs.

On radio last week,Demetriou said he still hadnt seen any of the investigation report,and probably wont untill it is finished.