Enough with wanting to pick up other clubs rejects

[Pennant St Dee 11,465]

If we have serious coin pretty confident we will get 1 or 2, might not be Goddard or Kennedy but there are always players who you can land with good coin. The right trade and mney will get you Gaff from Meth Coast or Rockliff from Lions.

With plenty on offer an aim of targeting players from teams who are on there downward turn Del Santo, Ryan Griffen not saying these guys but target these sorts as an option

[satyricon 267]

I would think that Moloney's form in the games that he played this season would clearly indicate a fall in attitude towards the club.He didn't play or have the demeanour of what the 2011 club best and fairest should have, in my opinion.I would prefer him to stay, but he would need to overcome the negative vibes he is displaying on the field. A return to his form of 2011 would be great. I do hope this happens with us, but I doubt this will be the case.As for him reading my post, they are my opinions and they were expressed in a manner that were intended to reflect my thoughts. They were not for the purpose of 'player bashing'. In fact I would doubt that Moloney could seriously challenge what I said.

A lack of form is not a clear indication of a change of attitude, in fact the harder Beamer tried the worse it got, he was given new roles and was finding it hard to adapt, if Neeld thought Beamer wasn't giving 100% he wouldn't have picked him in the games he did........ simple as that.....I suppose you have never had an off day at work then?

[Roost It 1,434]

It's not because we're Melbourne, it's because we have no chance of playing finals and that's what A grade players want, a shot at a premiership.

Ummmm last time I checked, Geelong, Collingwood, Hawthorn all have their fair share of A graders....

I agree Clark is more important than Rivers, I LOVE MItch, he became my favourite player in record time, but you can't doubt Rivers importance at the other end. He showed in the first half of the year he's a smart and consistent player still, and is a severely underrated linchpin in our defence, as well as being a great leader by example. I won't be devastated if Rivers leaves, but it will hurt us more than you seem to realize.

One more time. Who are the A graders we can't attract because we're Melbourne?

The reason A graders are so hard to attract is because clubs don't let them go, it's got little to do with other clubs

If we can draft well this year(I realize that's quite an if on recent efforts) we will surprise many at how quickly we rise up the ladder.

So Rivers is NQR yes?

[dee-luded 2,958]

Ok mate, so tell which "big fish" we're going to sign this offseason then? Come on, name an A grader you think we'll get?

Go after Tippett, I think is what some are suggesting. Make him want to move.

Offer Tippett a Big contract & the Crows Pick 4 trade.

If the GCSuns want him, they'll have to spend $$$ & Pick 2 to get him. Then J Viney gets to 2nd Rnd.

If the Suns don't give up Pick 2, & nominate Jack V, we take JV at P3, & use P4 for who we choose. Tippett or Grundy could be useful.

[Cheap Seats 3,303]

It's not because we're Melbourne, it's because we have no chance of playing finals and that's what A grade players want, a shot at a premiership.

Ummmm last time I checked, Geelong, Collingwood, Hawthorn all have their fair share of A graders....

I agree Clark is more important than Rivers, I LOVE MItch, he became my favourite player in record time, but you can't doubt Rivers importance at the other end. He showed in the first half of the year he's a smart and consistent player still, and is a severely underrated linchpin in our defence, as well as being a great leader by example. I won't be devastated if Rivers leaves, but it will hurt us more than you seem to realize.

And you call me delusional - in you're argument against me you spruik his importance as a forward

He is a role player - easily replaceable

Stop crying because you'll be sad he leaves and argue some facts

Edited September 28, 2012 by Unleash Hell

[jackaub 1,402]

Go after Tippett, I think is what some are suggesting. Make him want to move.

Offer Tippett a Big contract & the Crows Pick 4 trade.

If the GCSuns want him, they'll have to spend $$$ & Pick 2 to get him. Then J Viney gets to 2nd Rnd.

If the Suns don't give up Pick 2, & nominate Jack V, we take JV at P3, & use P4 for who we choose. Tippett or Grundy could be useful.

Makes emminent sence to meWe just have to get it right this yearNo more duds

[stuie 7,374]

Go after Tippett, I think is what some are suggesting. Make him want to move.

I rate Tip, would love that, but seems like it's Adelaide or QLD. You never know, we got Mitch, but I have a strong feeling it'll be out of those 2 destinations only.

[stuie 7,374]

And you call me delusional - in you're argument against me you spruik his importance as a forward

He is a role player - easily replaceable

Stop crying because you'll be sad he leaves and argue some facts

You wanna talk facts? Show me where I said he was an important forward! Idiot. What end is the other end to Mitch genius? FFS.

You've ignored ALL the facts so far, so I'm not going to continue to argue with someone with 0 comprehension.

Edited September 28, 2012 by stuie

[Norm Smith's Curse 2,078]

Get back to reality mate. Not only are we having trouble attracting "big fish" but our own players are asking to leave.

The only way to get these A graders is to have cash AND success, and the way to get there is to get better players to take us to that stage, which is what this offseason is all about. So we will be signing B graders to help improve us to the stage where we will be an attractive proposition to A graders.

Stuie your ignoring the biggest thing in footy now days - money... Everyone has a price. We may have to pay overs now but once we get momentum we will attract more players.

People here seem to have this romantic notion that every player in the AFL wants to play for a good side that is playing in finals at the time and will not waver on this for a few extra bucks. if players arent attracted to MFC it has more to do with the suggestion that our administration and coaching standards were below par. To players its not a game of heart - its a professional sport. if we can show that we have elite level training, facilities and support base trust me we wont have trouble attracting one or two A-graders providing we can prise them from their club and on the probable condition that we have to pay overs to get them here. Some younger players who might be disgruntled at their club realise that they could be superstars with guaranteed game time at a club like the demons and realise that those draft picks have to come on eventually with the right leadership.

Our biggest problem is the continued perception that we are a rabble admin and coaching wise through the whispers from Tom Scully and the tanking debacle.

But mark my words - this trade period is the most significant in years and if they stuff this up i very much worry where we will end up...

Edited September 28, 2012 by Norm Smith's Curse

[Norm Smith's Curse 2,078]

Why Neeld in Caps?

Melbourne's worry is the exodus of arguably our best players for the reason of discontent. Rivers(looks gone), Moloney and Jurrah just to name 3. It's speculation but others will follow. "Neeld can mould into his thinking". What does that mean? Apart from "rejects" and some young draftees, i.e. Viney, who is coming? To compound the worry is who would want to come in this climate? Sellar types aren't going to get us up the ladder.

Would be better off keeping Rivers(our best defender) and letting Sellar go. Problem here is obvious. No other team would touch Sellar with a barge pole.

Good to see you are consistent - as in consistently poor posts...

Once again according to you our best players include Jurrah and Moloney - because their 2012 seasons were utterly amazing... People who understand the game however would see that Jurrah will probably never play AFL again because of his personal issues and because it seems pretty clear he isnt made for the rigours of professional football and will see that Moloney is now slower than nearly all midfielders in the comp which is why we were so comprehensively beaten in the midfield this year - miles too slow... And i say that with respect because Ive loved Moloney's hard at it menatlity for years. Your idea of our best players seems a romanticised whim of five second grabs of Jurrah's occasional talents rather than an understanding that one players fairweather talents dont equate to quality premiership sides...

As for 'rejects' Ill reiterate the point that Grigg was seen as a 'reject' as was Darren Jolly when he left the Demons...

Edited September 28, 2012 by Norm Smith's Curse

[Cheap Seats 3,303]

You wanna talk facts? Show me where I said he was an important forward! Idiot. What end is the other end to Mitch genius? FFS.

You've ignored ALL the facts so far, so I'm not going to continue to argue with someone with 0 comprehension.

Haha so we are ignoring he played as a forward for the second half of the year now?? Not sure what your argument has been apart fomr name calling.

So lets estabish what we do know

As a backman - positives - can stop players / can incept marks & is a good 3rd man up Negaitves - poor disposal which is prone to turnovers, can get beaten on the lead - can't play on bigger opponents

As a forward - average lead up player who is reliant on being hit on lead to gain possession

Would you pay $450k a year which is roughly around what he is chasing a year for this typle of player?

[stuie 7,374]

Stuie your ignoring the biggest thing in footy now days - money... Everyone has a price. We may have to pay overs now but wants we get momentum we will attract more players.

That's part of my point mate, but what I'm saying is we won't get those top players until we are more successful, but we should be able to get good players from now with cash.

[stuie 7,374]

Haha so we are ignoring he played as a forward for the second half of the year now?? Not sure what your argument has been apart fomr name calling.

So lets estabish what we do know

As a backman - positives - can stop players / can incept marks & is a good 3rd man up Negaitves - poor disposal which is prone to turnovers, can get beaten on the lead - can't play on bigger opponents

As a forward - average lead up player who is reliant on being hit on lead to gain possession

Would you pay $450k a year which is roughly around what he is chasing a year for this typle of player?

Lol, you seriously have no idea what's going on other than you want to argue with me.

I guess Geelong are going after him because he's such a bad player hey? Fool.

[dee_star 63]

I would have thought Cloke when he was available was worth having a crack at, and without him on the table maybe only Goddard and Caddy.

There's nothing else available that I think would add anything to our list. Not a huge Wellingham fan - I think he's a good average player but that's about it, not worth the big dollars to lure over the road.

[Red&BlueBlood 61]

_{I dont mind the idea of getting other clubs "rejects". Sydney have done it as have a few other clubs to a lesser extent.}

_{Neeld wants to implement a game plan and all of the players linked to the Dee's in draft talks would fit into that and not have a Bailey era hangover.}

_{Another thing is who ever we do get, be it byrnes, pederson, etc will come in wanting to impress given it will prob be there last shot at AFL...}

_{Much like Seller this year.}

_{In the end of the day I dont care who we get as long as they buy in and give 100%}

[Norm Smith's Curse 2,078]

That's part of my point mate, but what I'm saying is we won't get those top players until we are more successful, but we should be able to get good players from now with cash.

If we can prise an a-grader from their club, or if their club has significant salary cap squeezes, or interplayer issues a young a grader might relish the chance to come and play for a side like ours with a decent supporter base and some up and coming draft picks that by the law of probability have to come on sooner or later. But the most important thing is to build a strong perception that we are professional, focused and that we have good training facilities or we will never have a chance.

[Norm Smith's Curse 2,078]

I would have thought Cloke when he was available was worth having a crack at, and without him on the table maybe only Goddard and Caddy.

There's nothing else available that I think would add anything to our list. Not a huge Wellingham fan - I think he's a good average player but that's about it, not worth the big dollars to lure over the road.

I disagree that Cloke or Caddy are a-graders.

[stuie 7,374]

I would have thought Cloke when he was available was worth having a crack at, and without him on the table maybe only Goddard and Caddy.

There's nothing else available that I think would add anything to our list. Not a huge Wellingham fan - I think he's a good average player but that's about it, not worth the big dollars to lure over the road.

I think Welingham's attributes (namely speed and spread) would be worth more to us than Goddard's or Caddy's at this stage (not taking into account how good Caddy may become in the future of course). Doesn't mean he's a better player than either of those guys, but he has what we need right now,

[stuie 7,374]

If we can prise an a-grader from their club, or if their club has significant salary cap squeezes, or interplayer issues a young a grader might relish the chance to come and play for a side like ours with a decent supporter base and some up and coming draft picks that by the law of probability have to come on sooner or later. But the most important thing is to build a strong perception that we are professional, focused and that we have good training facilities or we will never have a chance.

I just think the more games we win, the promise we show, the more of a chance we have at attracting those top players, and after the year we just had players are a little wary.

[Norm Smith's Curse 2,078]

I think Welingham's attributes (namely speed and spread) would be worth more to us than Goddard's or Caddy's at this stage (not taking into account how good Caddy may become in the future of course). Doesn't mean he's a better player than either of those guys, but he has what we need right now,

I most certainly agree with this comment. MFC needs to be wary of stocking up on more unproven potential when the last 6 years or so have shown that we may not be at the forefront of seeing that potential or allowing it to be realised.

[dee-luded 2,958]

_{I dont mind the idea of getting other clubs "rejects". Sydney have done it as have a few other clubs to a lesser extent.}

_{Neeld wants to implement a game plan and all of the players linked to the Dee's in draft talks would fit into that and not have a Bailey era hangover.}

_{Another thing is who ever we do get, be it byrnes, pederson, etc will come in wanting to impress given it will prob be there last shot at AFL...}

_{Much like Seller this year.}

_{In the end of the day I dont care who we get as long as they buy in and give 100%}

RolePlay-ers - v Real Talent?

This is a byproduct of the rotations X sports science. the "Roles" players play, is a tool thats grown from the running capacities, so 'part players' are now in 'Vogue', as a by product of the modern interchange bench.

Enter the 2+2 bench... running capacities drop, floods & presses are dismantled, & the running attacking game returns to power.

Skilled players & moreso, {real 'A' graders} will be back, like the Wayne Carey's & Tony Locketts, Ablett snr, & Peter Matera's of the footy world.

IMO we need to keep Drafting in our Class,,, & bring in the mature role players if we are to get ontop of our list managing.

Edited September 28, 2012 by dee-luded

[stuie 7,374]

I think you've missed the point. We make the Suns commit they're pick 2 for the Tippett trade.

This should allow passage of Viney to the 2nd Rnd.

If the Suns want Viney they'll bid for him. We'll match them (P3). Then, in this scenario, the Suns will take either Toumpas, Grundy, or Tippett

But the father-son bidding happens before the trade period....

[Dinosaur Rover 197]

I've been quite hooked on reading the possible trade and rumor threads. Its like trying to guess what Santa is going to bring.

However I think that some people are in fantasy land(and I say that with the utmost respect as this forum is made of peoples hope) We currently have the dollars and draft picks so lets buy 1 or 2 big fish if we can coax them and draft the best kids. I dont think we are in a position to get players that cant get a game in a top 8 club and hope they become players that will take us to finals. I know people will say what about Josh Kennedy etc. Yes it happens sometimes but we cant afford to take a chance.

We need proven contributors and kids that NEELD can mould into his thinking.

When you say at once "We need proven contributors" and propose to "draft the best kids" isnt there a contradiction there?

[dee-luded 2,958]

But the father-son bidding happens before the trade period....

I hadn't finished writing that post, & had decided to not tidy it up, nor send it. So I hadn't straitened it up. It got caught up in my next post without my knowledge.

..........................................................

I know, but the trading deals are being worked out Now, even if the they're not ratified till the trade period.

So if the we chase Tippett, we may well cause the Suns to back off re Viney. They back off, & we can agree in philosophies.

We have to play the game, &, Tippett would be very handy as well, for our versatility.

[Cheap Seats 3,303]

Lol, you seriously have no idea what's going on other than you want to argue with me.

I guess Geelong are going after him because he's such a bad player hey? Fool.

Well please enlighten me then master - you have still failed to enlighten me to why it would be a big loss if Rvio walks out??? Or do all you have to offer is insult and whining?

And how certian are you that he's been offered a contract by Geelong (HUN reports are always 100% spot on afterall)?? At no time have I said he wasn't a good ROLE player as 3rd tall fool - You've failed to see thats been my point - the MFC don't need a truckload of 3rd up defender with poor disposal...

Who cares anyway he's Max Gawn - you should PM me your postal address so I can mail you some tissues when the news is released