We need to use Pick 4 on the most athletic of the best remaining mids for quick run & spread.

Lewis Jetta carved up the Hawks in the 3rd quarter as Mitchell & Sewell are great within 15 metres of the contest but don't spread well.

Viney isn't that quick either,we need a jet.

Wines was very impressive on Future Stars a few weeks ago,i'd be happy if we take him.

We need to use Pick 4 on the most athletic of the best remaining mids for quick run & spread.

Lewis Jetta carved up the Hawks in the 3rd quarter as Mitchell & Sewell are great within 15 metres of the contest but don't spread well.

Viney isn't that quick either,we need a jet.

Wines was very impressive on Future Stars a few weeks ago,i'd be happy if we take him.

For an inside mid Viney's pace is good and you'll find it's above average. But no, he doesn't have line breaking pace.

memo to MFC

- pick 4: Oliver Wines. He gets the footy, competitive, tough & ready to go. Viney & Wines "hunt the footy".

Wines will not be a run&carry type like Thomas/Deledio/Martin/Judd BUT more of a Jude Bolton/Sam Mitchell/Joel Selwood/Jobe Watson type, to get it over and over again and distribute.

Wines will be a 10-yr+ player with the ability to accumulate and get the footy. Pick 4. And he has leadership and a good footy brain.

Looking at Magners first 4 rounds he was a complete ball magnet, if we put him in the middle with Viney and recruit a Thomas/Deledio/Martin/Judd type then I will be over the moon. So no Wines for me

Looking at Magners first 4 rounds he was a complete ball magnet, if we put him in the middle with Viney and recruit a Thomas/Deledio/Martin/Judd type then I will be over the moon. So no Wines for me

No worries ... if Toumpas was available, he would be ideal but I think Whitfield/Grundy/Toumpas will be 1,2,3.

Tappscott / Trengove ??

Strauss, Scully, Watts?

We need to use Pick 4 on the most athletic of the best remaining mids for quick run & spread.

Lewis Jetta carved up the Hawks in the 3rd quarter as Mitchell & Sewell are great within 15 metres of the contest but don't spread well.

Viney isn't that quick either,we need a jet.

Wines was very impressive on Future Stars a few weeks ago,i'd be happy if we take him.

I think, we just got one today, if I read it right. Dominic Barry is said to be quickish. I think he may be a project player to work on for this role.

The one thing I keep thinking about is Viney saying that Wines is the most competitive player he's seen and that they'd drive each other. That combined with the fact they've both captained junior teams is a winning formula for me.

The one thing I keep thinking about is Viney saying that Wines is the most competitive player he's seen and that they'd drive each other. That combined with the fact they've both captained junior teams is a winning formula for me.

Indeed. Wines sounds like the perfect complement to Viney. I'm hopelessly unqualified to talk about juniors, but Wines sounds to me like he'll be a perfect fit on the assumption that Toumpas is one of GWS's three. I'm convinced.

I think, we just got one today, if I read it right. Dominic Barry is said to be quickish. I think he may be a project player to work on for this role.

First thing I though was....what if he's our Jetta (L)

Oliver Wines

Kevin Sheehan says: “Strong medium midfielder with a distinct hard edge that wins him contested ball, including at the stoppages. Has elite endurance and can push forward and hit the scoreboard. Ferocious tackler who is a good overhead mark and prolific ball winner. Averaged 24.2 disposals for Vic Country in thr NAB AFL Under-18 Championships this year, winning All-Australian honours. AIS-AFL Academy Graduate.”

Having scanned the highlight reels of the various guys touted at pick 4, read others accounts and opinions etc, Wines is screaming out yes to me. He is everything we want at our footy club. Get him.

Just came across this article, few days old but has Viney and Wines discussing one another.

The two of us: Viney and Wines

Viney on Wines:-

''I don't know anyone more competitive than Ollie, or anyone that hates losing as much as he does. That's when he cracks the shits, when he loses. He goes nuts and would do anything to turn things around.

Ultimately this is what footy is about. Mates playing the game and enjoying the competitive nature. Oliver Wines is all upside.

10yr player. Leader. Good character. Wins the footy. Smart. Vic country boy (no "go home factor"). No prior injuries or risks. Reminds me of players such as Jobe Watson, Joel Selwood, Sam Mitchell.

Too many inside mids - you are joking - Mitchell, Lewis, Sewell, Hodge all play in the Hawks midfield. J Kennedy, Hannebery, Bolton & Jack, all play in the Swans midfield. We can have Jones, Viney, Wines, Mckenzie (plus Grimes, Trengrove, Sylvia).

It's an easy call from me.

Too many inside mids - you are joking - Mitchell, Lewis, Sewell, Hodge all play in the Hawks midfield. J Kennedy, Hannebery, Bolton & Jack, all play in the Swans midfield. We can have Jones, Viney, Wines, Mckenzie (plus Grimes, Trengrove, Sylvia).

It's an easy call from me.

This seems to be a recurring theme amongst supporters on demonland and it's beginning to frustrate me. There needs to be more of an understanding and clarity to the definition 'inside' mid.

I'm assuming you mean all the players you have listed above have the ability to win contested ball and that's why you call them 'inside' mids? Do you know that Magner is great at winning contested ball but he doesn't have any other attributes that put him anywhere close to Mitchell, Lewis or Hodge? Why?

Not only can they win contested ball, but they have elite kicking skills amongst other standout attributes. The reason Hawthorn are such a great side is because most of their playing list have the ability to win contested ball and can also kick the ball extremely well. One cannot compare the likes of McKenzie, Moloney, Magner, Couch, Bail, Nicholson etc to those three Hawthorn players or even three quarters of Hawthorns list. They are simply too one-dimensional.

Mitchell when in congestion for example, has an incredible ability to fire out a handball (with his left or right hand) to a player in the most space or in the most dangerous position. Mitchell barely has two seconds assess where his teammates are in congestion, picking one who has the most space or is in the most advantageous position, executing the skill so that his teammate barely breaks stride, all under heavy physical pressure. It's a pleasure to watch and that's only one example of something that separates mitchell from many others. I won't go into Hodge and Lewis but you get the idea.

Saying that you can't have too many 'inside' mids is a very confusing and naive comment. At the minute Melbourne have a whole bunch of mids who have no trouble at all when it comes to jumping on the ball and winning it. It's the next step that is the worry.

The continual improvement of Nathan Jones' ability to hit targets makes my heart warm. He has added another dimension to his game and is becoming more and more of a well rounded mid. Arguably our most important mid going into next year.

Sylvia, Trengove, Grimes and Howe are four that must come on next year for us to climb the ladder again. All have the ability and attributes to become fantastic mids for our club. Sylvia needs to find the fire and desire to become the player we need him to become. Trengove needs to become even fitter and work on his acceleration. Grimes needs to stay on the park, have a full pre-season. Howe needs to continue on from the good season he had this year. These four players plus Jones are our nucleus. They can all win their own ball, can use the ball well and have other attributes to their game that make them dangerous. Marking, spreading, goal kicking etc.

These are the kinds of mids we need! Not Magner, Moloney Couch, McKenzie, Bail, Nicholson etc. The definition of 'inside' mid to me is a Magner, McKenzie Moloney or Couch. A player that is one dimensional. A player who can win their own ball, are relatively one paced and can't do much else.

I want multi dimensional mids!

Now back to the thread title and player in question, Mr Oliver Wines. I have heard he is tough, I have heard he is a brute that loves winning the contested ball, I have heard that he can even go forward and take a mark, but I haven't heard that he can kick. From the vision I have seen, it seems as though he is effective enough but not as good as Viney, (who is by no means elite). Should that be a determining factor? For me, absolutely.

We need players who can use the ball just as much as we need players who can win it. ('inside' mids). In fact, we need both. Lets call them multi dimensionals.

I am very happy with Viney, the look of Barry and obviously Hogan looks promising.

I want pick 4 to be a star mid with several strong attributes to his name and kicking MUST be one!

Go dees.

I want pick 4 to be a star mid with several strong attributes to his name and kicking MUST be one!

Go dees.

Excellent post Steve, although I think you're pigeon holing the term "inside mid" a tad, which is where Wisbey's term 'first dibs' really comes into play. In other words, there are inside mids and there are inside mids, if you get my drift.

Wines isn't an elite kick and as you say Viney is better. Viney isn't elite, but he's a very good kick. It's the one question mark that I also have on Wines. This is where I put my faith in the recruiters. Watson was a poor kick, but has improved it immeasurably, Josh Kennedy is a good kick for goal, but not an elite field kick, Scotty Thompson isn't an elite kick, Swan isn't, Boyd isn't, Selwood is a good kick, but not elite...

I'll leave it up to the recruiters who have seen far more of him than me. But if Toumpas slips to 4 I'd be taking him.

Excellent post Steve, although I think you're pigeon holing the term "inside mid" a tad, which is where Wisbey's term 'first dibs' really comes into play. In other words, there are inside mids and there are inside mids, if you get my drift.

Wines isn't an elite kick and as you say Viney is better. Viney isn't elite, but he's a very good kick. It's the one question mark that I also have on Wines. This is where I put my faith in the recruiters. Watson was a poor kick, but has improved it immeasurably, Josk Kennedy is a good kick for goal, but not an elite field kick, Scotty Thompson isn't an elite kick, Swan isn't, Boyd isn't, Selwood is a good kick, but not elite...

I'll leave it up to the recruiters who have seen far more of him than me. But if Toumpas slips to 4 I'd be taking him.

Agreed re leaving it to the recruiters. There will be no disappointment from me if Wines is indeed taken at pick 4, although I would be disappointed if he was taken ahead of Toumpas.

Let's see how it plays.

Footy is all about getting the ball first.

Do you think Geelong would complain if they had two Joel Selwoods?

The Wines and Viney Partnership will pull us out of the muck we've been in all these years.

Footy is all about getting the ball first.

Do you think Geelong would complain if they had two Joel Selwoods?

The Wines and Viney Partnership will pull us out of the muck we've been in all these years.

Selwood has decent kicking skills. Please stop comparing a player like him to Wines. Nobody has a great insight into Wines kicking although from the limited vision on youtube it doesn't seem to be amazing.

How does Wines compare to Mayes and O'Rourke as a 'complete' midfielder? Do they have better pace or kicking skills? Can anyone shed some light?

I'll leave it up to the recruiters who have seen far more of him than me. But if Toumpas slips to 4 I'd be taking him.

Agreed re leaving it to the recruiters. There will be no disappointment from me if Wines is indeed taken at pick 4, although I would be disappointed

if he was taken ahead of Toumpas.

Yep agree with you guys here. I'd be taking Toumpas ahead of Wines, purely because he has greater pace and a better kick than Wines. If Toumpas is gone by pick 4, then i would be tossing up between O'Rourke and Wines.

Dom Barry has explosive pace yes, but he's more of a winger. We need players with explosive pace, who are able to play in the guts.

How does Wines compare to Mayes and O'rourke as a 'complete' midfielder? Do they have better pace or kicking skills? Can anyone shed some light?

O'Rourke certainly has more pace then Wines. I'd say kciking is about par between the two. However Wines is better at clearance work and would be ready to go round 1. O'Rourke I'm not as sure on.

Haven't seen enough of Mayes to compare.

This seems to be a recurring theme amongst supporters on demonland and it's beginning to frustrate me. There needs to be more of an understanding and clarity to the definition 'inside' mid.

Great post. Look at the top 20 mids in the comp and they will get the ball in and out. The very best mids will get an inside ball then get out and deliver.

O'Rourke certainly has more pace then Wines. I'd say kciking is about par between the two. However Wines is better at clearance work and would be ready to go round 1. O'Rourke I'm not as sure on.

Haven't seen enough of Mayes to compare.

Agreed on this assessment. You have to be able to get the footy. Wines gets the footy ... often !!.

Saying that you can't have too many 'inside' mids is a very confusing and naive comment.

Stevethemanjordan ... you have been smoking a substance or need NEW glasses.

My assessment of players like the mids from hawks and swans was around players like Jones, Viney, Wines, Mckenzie (and Trengrove,Grimes & Sylvia). You will find that Mckenzie stats around disposals are effective. However his focus is a shutdown role.

It did not mention... Magner, Couch, Nicho, Moloney & Bail ... all of whom you introduced.

Get your assessment right before the negative jibes. Apology accepted. Thanks. Go the nighty Dees

Planning For 2013 – Oliver Wines 

Nice insight into our future first rounder.

and another -

 Oliver Wines - Draft Prospect