I know that old dee. Whoever heard of rain falling from blue sky?

Good point

We're watching virtually the same side that was fielded last year.

I think Port Adelaide and Richmond got lucky, winning in the aftermath of the 186 crisis.

If the Sydney draw went our way that puts us on 11 wins and missing the eight on percentage.

With that in mind I can see us turning the corner very quickly. But it depends on the players "getting" the game plan and another pre-season building their fitness levels.

As soon as their natural abilities are restored, and we're ridded of the perennial duds, and topped up with a second tier of high draftees, then there's no reason to stay so low next year.

Good to have something positive to read for once...

Decent side on paper. Still think we need some better kickers in the backhalf - unless this improves I think Jack might stay there a bit.

In terms of getting a key forward, we're obviously looking at other options in case Cloke falls through. Someone in another thread mentioned McKernan might be available from Adelaide? I might overrate him, but he seems to be able to cause a lot of damage whenever I've seen him play (admittedly not too often).

I also think that Essendon have a surplus of decent forwards - with Daniher coming in, and they already have Hurley, Gumbleton, Crameri, a resting ruckman etc. If Moloney still wants to go to the dons, it might not be a bad thing to start. Would obviously cost much less than Cloke which means we might be able to make a play elsewhere.

Possibilities:

1/ In - Cloke (Collingwood), Caddy (Gold Coast), pick 3, pick 4, Viney

Out - Sylvia, pick 13 to Gold Coast

2/ In - Cloke (Collingwood), pick 3, pick 4, pick 13, Viney

Naturally this thread isn't concerned with likely delistings or later picks/acquisitions, just pointy end picks and substantial ways of improving the list. The beauty of getting Cloke is that he costs nothing other than the wage.

Team:

Def: Nicholson, Frawley, Rivers

H/B: Grimes, Tom McDonald, Garland

Cen: Caddy, Viney, Toumpas

H/F: Watts, Cloke, Howe

For: Jurrah, Clark, Blease

Rucks: Jamar, Trengove, Jones

I/C: Martin, O'Rourke, McKenzie, Gysberts

New: Cloke, Caddy, Viney, Toumpas, O'Rourke.

While not perfect and still with room to improve, this is pretty much a spud free zone. You don't see names such as Bate, Dunn, Petterd, Morton, or teases such as Moloney and Sylvia. It also doesn't allow for others such as Taggert, Tynan, Strauss, Tapscott ...

I agree this is a great team to start with, although stacking our team even with the likes of Caddy (who im not sold on), Viney, and Toumpas and O'Rourke, may leave us a bit raw although the rest of the team is beginning to mature thank god.

I would honestly think pick 4 is a bit early for O'Rourke i would hope he could potentially slide to pick 11 tbh or unlikely but Plowman at pick 11 at a big stretch, and then pick up a Stringer or Mayes or Wines at pick 4 would be my preference but the theory is the same essentially.

I would also play Clark as the rotating ruck as well it can bring him into games imo, and isnt for long at all, specially if we still have Cloke (a big if) as the target during this time. this means that Sylvia can come onto the bench and give us some pace, and skill which he has, and he has been showing some real form imo lately.

Also i am a fan of Watts down back being the play maker and i would hope that Cook is still a chance to come in next year for a while and make it his home, in this case i would go more for maybe a Garlett option maybe at pick 11 or a Kennedy to give us that small option and outside player we lack.

this is ALL Blue sky stuff though

This thread is purely for the blue sky junkies, of which I'm not always a member, but I need to dream. Also, despite this season being our annus horribilis, the following prospects aren't completely without merit. I consider this season over come grand final day and thus the curse of this season will also be over - just in time for trades/drafts. And I'm sick of talking and reading about tanking. Club politics isn't really my thing, even though I have contempt for some previous key stake holders.

In another thread I've shied away from getting Cloke purely because of the cost, but today I'm going to embrace the idea on the basis that the list management team headed by Tim Harrington have carefully planned for free agency and can manage such a "purchase". I'm also going to assume that we get Viney in the second round.

Possibilities:

1/ In - Cloke (Collingwood), Caddy (Gold Coast), pick 3, pick 4, Viney

Out - Sylvia, pick 13 to Gold Coast

2/ In - Cloke (Collingwood), pick 3, pick 4, pick 13, Viney

Naturally this thread isn't concerned with likely delistings or later picks/acquisitions, just pointy end picks and substantial ways of improving the list. The beauty of getting Cloke is that he costs nothing other than the wage.

Team:

Def: Nicholson, Frawley, Rivers

H/B: Grimes, Tom McDonald, Garland

Cen: Caddy, Viney, Toumpas

H/F: Watts, Cloke, Howe

For: Jurrah, Clark, Blease

Rucks: Jamar, Trengove, Jones

I/C: Martin, O'Rourke, McKenzie, Gysberts

New: Cloke, Caddy, Viney, Toumpas, O'Rourke.

While not perfect and still with room to improve, this is pretty much a spud free zone. You don't see names such as Bate, Dunn, Petterd, Morton, or teases such as Moloney and Sylvia. It also doesn't allow for others such as Taggert, Tynan, Strauss, Tapscott ...

Toumpas and O'Rourke are very highly rated inside and outside contested ball winning mids with pace and elite kicks. Unlike Trengove they're quick and unlike Scully they're great kicks and will be stronger bodied. Toumpas captained SA in the u/18 national championships. Both are predicted to be top 10 draft picks. Most rate Toumpas top 5 and TAC Future Stars on Channel 9 ranked O'Rourke as they're second best prospect. Viney and Toumpas will add instant character and leadership qualities. Trengove and Grimes will welcome young leaders and mids of their ilk. Also, rather than being 17 year olds like Flower and Healy, or even schoolboy draftees of more recent times such as Andrew Walker, Callan Ward, Dangerfield and Jack Watts, these players will play nearly all year as 19 year olds. They'll not be 'A' graders overnight, but they'll impact our group with their class immediately. Note: all three of these guys have better credentials than the highly rated Toby Greene of GWS and he's averaging 26 disposals in his first year. He was a teammate with Viney at Oakleigh Chargers and another first round draft pick only last year.

Every single supporter knows there are no guarantees with drafting, but assuming we draft well it's like having Beams, Shuey and Selwood walking into your club. I've seen Viney and his approach to football and the only other mid of recent times that I can liken him to is Joel Selwood. He has the same manic attack on the ball.

We lack pace, but straight away we'd gain three young mids with pace. Look at the spine, or goal to goal line: Frawley, McDonald, Viney, Cloke and Clark. It has the potential to be one of the best in the league. Look at the forward-line. With the addition of Cloke I've put Watts back into the forward-line. The two best defenders go to Cloke and Clark, but the opposition have still got to cover Jurrah and Howe as other agile marking options, plus a 196cm Jack Watts. We still need a quality crumbing forward, but I've put Blease in there for now. That is a ridiculous forward-line to match up on.

The back-line is a little top heavy, even though Garland and Frawley are good at playing on 'smalls'; and we need an elite kick out of defence, such as Suckling, or Guerra, but it's got the makings of a decent back-line.

If you can't sway Caddy to come to the club then pick 13 may be retained and a dynamic and fast little player such as Ben Kennedy may still be around. He's a terric small with a booming kick who plays midfield and kicks goals.

A midfield in 3-4 years of Jones, Caddy, Trengove, Viney, Toumpas, O'Rourke and possibly Gysberts provides a mixture of pace and hardness, and has the ingredients to be the envy of the competition. Obviously we may not choose Toumpas, or O'Rourke, but that's the type of quality that will be on offer.

Forget Cloke's poor year. He's a gun key forward and we've seen enough to know that he and Clark would be a nightmare for the oppostion, especially with quality flankers around them. Supporters mustn't give up hope that we can draft well. At the top end this draft is quality, especially for midfielders. As Terry Wallace said on the weekend, we have a chance to do what the Saints did in 2000 when they picked up Hamill from Carlton, Gehrig from West Coast, and Riewoldt and Koschitzke with draft picks.

Current first round mids/utilities gained from drafts: Hodge, Ball, Dal Santo, Hayes, Goddard, Wells, Judd, Murphy, Griffen, Cooney, Thomas, Pendlebury, Sidebottom, Selwood, Bartel, Deledio, Cotchin, Stanton, Thompson, Dangerfield ... Just look at the names. All of these players were first round draft picks. And you can add 'in demand' players such as Boak, Caddy and our own Nathan Jones as other first rounders. This year there will be players of similar quality and we have a chance to get two (three if we use pick 13), plus Viney if he comes in the second round.

The possibilities to change the course of this club are enormous. Do other supporters share my belief that this club can be transformed quicker than a lot of the general public, or media commentators envisage ? Btw, I know I'm not the only supporter with this type of hope. I'm just one of many. But just as certain there will be some that consider such blue sky scenarios only fit for the land of the fairies.

If we can't get Cloke we need some other mature key forward to improve our structures and to help Clark. I'm excited by the opportunities ahead.

*If mods would prefer this thread on the draft board naturally they'll move it. I posted here because it's a mixture of blue sky with our core list, as well as drafts/trades.

Good post but would not give up on Sylvia, think he has bought into what Neeld is trying to turn him into, think Neeld sees him as a challenge he is winning

After reading the OP, I'm the happiest I've been since the Bombers game.

It's a long shot but hell, the footy gods freaking owe us.

Team:

Def: Nicholson, Frawley, Rivers

H/B: Grimes, Tom McDonald, Garland

Cen: Caddy, Viney, Toumpas

H/F: Watts, Cloke, Howe

For: Jurrah, Clark, Blease

Rucks: Jamar, Trengove, Jones

I/C: Martin, O'Rourke, McKenzie, Gysberts

New: Cloke, Caddy, Viney, Toumpas, O'Rourke.

Great post Benny-H. If Neeld can get his hands on a team sheet looking something akin to this I reckon we make the eight in 2014.

Fortunes can change very quickly in this game if you make smart, bold decisions.

Good post but would not give up on Sylvia, think he has bought into what Neeld is trying to turn him into, think Neeld sees him as a challenge he is winning

Sylvia has seduced me for years, but he's lazy. You look at Jones who has reduced the variation between his best and worst games markedly. What's the difference between Sylvia's best and worst ?

Also, how good are we with Sylvia in the team ? We're still a mile off the pace. Time to give something to get something. It depends on how you rate Caddy. Admittedly Caddy hasn't done much, but what I've seen I like.

Sylvia has seduced me for years, but he's lazy. You look at Jones who has reduced the variation between his best and worst games markedly. What's the difference between Sylvia's best and worst ?

Also, how good are we with Sylvia in the team ? We're still a mile off the pace. Time to give something to get something. It depends on how you rate Caddy. Admittedly Caddy hasn't done much, but what I've seen I like.

Your right if the price is right then he can go, i just dont think him ontop of pick 11 or so is value for someone like Caddy, i would think Sylvia would still get usa pick 15-20 atleast on the open market

With the right people in & the right people shown the door. The club can turn around quickly. 1998 proved that.

I couldn't agree with you more BH

r.e. Stef Martin, i truely think he is an invaluable player for us. he is still a very young player, very athletic and he has super agillity and pace for a man of his size and he does a fair job of the ruck! he proved this to us when Jamar was down injured for most of last yr and has again this year! he has a lot of upside

r.e. Stef Martin, i truely think he is an invaluable player for us. he is still a very young player, very athletic and he has super agillity and pace for a man of his size and he does a fair job of the ruck! he proved this to us when Jamar was down injured for most of last yr and has again this year! he has a lot of upside

Stefan turns 26 in November. He's older than Dunn, Bate, Jones and Bartram.

Stefan turns 26 in November. He's older than Dunn, Bate, Jones and Bartram.

ok so i got that wrong :/ i need to do my research a bit more still he's worth his weight in gold in my opinion

Clark

Watts

Jones

Grimes

McKenzie

Sylvia

Moloney

Davey

Green

Rivers

Jamar

Jurrah

Frawley

Trengove

Howe

Garland

Bartram

Tapscott

Viney

These are all good players. I have seen enough from these blokes to know that when playing at 100% ability, they play good footy.

Now Neeld has to get the best out of em.

Add Viney, 'big fish' and a few more first rounders, and we are good enough to challenge for finals and even win the [censored] thing.

2013, 2014, 2015!

Rip em apart.

Carn the demons.

I couldn't agree with you more BH

r.e. Stef Martin, i truely think he is an invaluable player for us. he is still a very young player, very athletic and he has super agillity and pace for a man of his size and he does a fair job of the ruck! he proved this to us when Jamar was down injured for most of last yr and has again this year! he has a lot of upside

...and can also fill in very adequately as a KPP defender and adequately as a KPP forward. Maybe could even fill in on a wing as a link player.

Find the boil and lance it, in time for everyone to get focused on the footy before we get into the pre-season. Then we might see what they can do... (because we surely haven't yet). Blue sky is waiting behind the mother of all clouds - surely it's time...

Not positive enough? I am convinced there is a mountain of talent not yet harnessed, coaching and other staff and facilities that are Rolls Royce, the whole stuff first rate (with more players to come, too), and when the crap gets off our backs it'll fly. Huge sky full of sun and deep blue.

We just need the little guy with the stick to move Rajah out of the way.

Clark

Watts

Jones

Grimes

McKenzie

Sylvia

Moloney

Davey

Green

Rivers

Jamar

Jurrah

Frawley

Trengove

Howe

Garland

Bartram

Tapscott

Viney

These are all good players. I have seen enough from these blokes to know that when playing at 100% ability, they play good footy.

Now Neeld has to get the best out of em.

Add Viney, 'big fish' and a few more first rounders, and we are good enough to challenge for finals and even win the [censored] thing.

2013, 2014, 2015!

Rip em apart.

Carn the demons.

Bartram will be an interesting one - surely his future will have to depend on the medical report on his knee, which is reputed to be "bone on bone" so have no future.

Nice post.

I think Watts should stay back. We need someone with a brain, skill and a bit of creativity to get the ball out of our defensive 50, and Frawley, Garland and McDonald will give us none of these traits, they will just bomb it down the line.

I would prefer Kennedy to Caddy, as he could play as a small crumbing forward as well as a mid and if we could get a decent pick for Sylvia 18-25, then I would take that, and use it on another small forward with pace.

Clark

Watts

Jones

Grimes

McKenzie

Sylvia

Moloney

Davey

Green

Rivers

Jamar

Jurrah

Frawley

Trengove

Howe

Garland

Bartram

Tapscott

Viney

These are all good players. I have seen enough from these blokes to know that when playing at 100% ability, they play good footy.

Now Neeld has to get the best out of em.

Add Viney, 'big fish' and a few more first rounders, and we are good enough to challenge for finals and even win the [censored] thing.

2013, 2014, 2015!

Rip em apart.

Carn the demons.

I don't disagree with you, but i think Davey is on his last legs. yes he has had a few injuries during the last couple of seasons but he is getting a bit older now (near 29) and it is going to be tough for him to get himself back, however if he can get through an injury free pre-season he may be able to get back to near his damaging best and help us through through the dark time we have found ourselves in.

Nice post.

I think Watts should stay back. We need someone with a brain, skill and a bit of creativity to get the ball out of our defensive 50, and Frawley, Garland and McDonald will give us none of these traits, they will just bomb it down the line.

Yeah, Watts down back. could be the best quarter back in the competition. He is smart and composed, in the mould of an architect.

You gotta let him use the corridor, let him use whatever he friggin wants. Let him be dynamic, and not be scared of the possibilities. positive footy.

Good call.

Really good post. Gives me hope that next year will not be another anus horribilus. Fark it's hard to be a Melbourne supporter at the moment.

Thank you.

I don't disagree with you, but i think Davey is on his last legs. yes he has had a few injuries during the last couple of seasons but he is getting a bit older now (near 29) and it is going to be tough for him to get himself back, however if he can get through an injury free pre-season he may be able to get back to near his damaging best and help us through through the dark time we have found ourselves in.

Dont write him off. club champion, the prince. he invented dynamic forward pressure. The first of the first. the flash.

I back him in.

Dont write him off. club champion, the prince. he invented dynamic forward pressure. The first of the first. the flash.

I back him in.

I truely hope you're right as at his best he can be one of the most damaging players in the comp

Dont write him off. club champion, the prince. he invented dynamic forward pressure. The first of the first. the flash.

I back him in.

Green and Davey are cooked, done, finished and Moloney will be lucky not to be pushed out with them.

This thread is purely for the blue sky junkies, of which I'm not always a member, but I need to dream. Also, despite this season being our annus horribilis, the following prospects aren't completely without merit. I consider this season over come grand final day and thus the curse of this season will also be over - just in time for trades/drafts. And I'm sick of talking and reading about tanking. Club politics isn't really my thing, even though I have contempt for some previous key stake holders.

In another thread I've shied away from getting Cloke purely because of the cost, but today I'm going to embrace the idea on the basis that the list management team headed by Tim Harrington have carefully planned for free agency and can manage such a "purchase". I'm also going to assume that we get Viney in the second round.

Possibilities:

1/ In - Cloke (Collingwood), Caddy (Gold Coast), pick 3, pick 4, Viney

Out - Sylvia, pick 13 to Gold Coast

2/ In - Cloke (Collingwood), pick 3, pick 4, pick 13, Viney

Naturally this thread isn't concerned with likely delistings or later picks/acquisitions, just pointy end picks and substantial ways of improving the list. The beauty of getting Cloke is that he costs nothing other than the wage.

Team:

Def: Nicholson, Frawley, Rivers

H/B: Grimes, Tom McDonald, Garland

Cen: Caddy, Viney, Toumpas

H/F: Watts, Cloke, Howe

For: Jurrah, Clark, Blease

Rucks: Jamar, Trengove, Jones

I/C: Martin, O'Rourke, McKenzie, Gysberts

New: Cloke, Caddy, Viney, Toumpas, O'Rourke.

While not perfect and still with room to improve, this is pretty much a spud free zone. You don't see names such as Bate, Dunn, Petterd, Morton, or teases such as Moloney and Sylvia. It also doesn't allow for others such as Taggert, Tynan, Strauss, Tapscott ...

Toumpas and O'Rourke are very highly rated inside and outside contested ball winning mids with pace and elite kicks. Unlike Trengove they're quick and unlike Scully they're great kicks and will be stronger bodied. Toumpas captained SA in the u/18 national championships. Both are predicted to be top 10 draft picks. Most rate Toumpas top 5 and TAC Future Stars on Channel 9 ranked O'Rourke as they're second best prospect. Viney and Toumpas will add instant character and leadership qualities. Trengove and Grimes will welcome young leaders and mids of their ilk. Also, rather than being 17 year olds like Flower and Healy, or even schoolboy draftees of more recent times such as Andrew Walker, Callan Ward, Dangerfield and Jack Watts, these players will play nearly all year as 19 year olds. They'll not be 'A' graders overnight, but they'll impact our group with their class immediately. Note: all three of these guys have better credentials than the highly rated Toby Greene of GWS and he's averaging 26 disposals in his first year. He was a teammate with Viney at Oakleigh Chargers and another first round draft pick only last year.

Every single supporter knows there are no guarantees with drafting, but assuming we draft well it's like having Beams, Shuey and Selwood walking into your club. I've seen Viney and his approach to football and the only other mid of recent times that I can liken him to is Joel Selwood. He has the same manic attack on the ball.

We lack pace, but straight away we'd gain three young mids with pace. Look at the spine, or goal to goal line: Frawley, McDonald, Viney, Cloke and Clark. It has the potential to be one of the best in the league. Look at the forward-line. With the addition of Cloke I've put Watts back into the forward-line. The two best defenders go to Cloke and Clark, but the opposition have still got to cover Jurrah and Howe as other agile marking options, plus a 196cm Jack Watts. We still need a quality crumbing forward, but I've put Blease in there for now. That is a ridiculous forward-line to match up on.

The back-line is a little top heavy, even though Garland and Frawley are good at playing on 'smalls'; and we need an elite kick out of defence, such as Suckling, or Guerra, but it's got the makings of a decent back-line.

If you can't sway Caddy to come to the club then pick 13 may be retained and a dynamic and fast little player such as Ben Kennedy may still be around. He's a terric small with a booming kick who plays midfield and kicks goals.

A midfield in 3-4 years of Jones, Caddy, Trengove, Viney, Toumpas, O'Rourke and possibly Gysberts provides a mixture of pace and hardness, and has the ingredients to be the envy of the competition. Obviously we may not choose Toumpas, or O'Rourke, but that's the type of quality that will be on offer.

Forget Cloke's poor year. He's a gun key forward and we've seen enough to know that he and Clark would be a nightmare for the oppostion, especially with quality flankers around them. Supporters mustn't give up hope that we can draft well. At the top end this draft is quality, especially for midfielders. As Terry Wallace said on the weekend, we have a chance to do what the Saints did in 2000 when they picked up Hamill from Carlton, Gehrig from West Coast, and Riewoldt and Koschitzke with draft picks.

Current first round mids/utilities gained from drafts: Hodge, Ball, Dal Santo, Hayes, Goddard, Wells, Judd, Murphy, Griffen, Cooney, Thomas, Pendlebury, Sidebottom, Selwood, Bartel, Deledio, Cotchin, Stanton, Thompson, Dangerfield ... Just look at the names. All of these players were first round draft picks. And you can add 'in demand' players such as Boak, Caddy and our own Nathan Jones as other first rounders. This year there will be players of similar quality and we have a chance to get two (three if we use pick 13), plus Viney if he comes in the second round.

The possibilities to change the course of this club are enormous. Do other supporters share my belief that this club can be transformed quicker than a lot of the general public, or media commentators envisage ? Btw, I know I'm not the only supporter with this type of hope. I'm just one of many. But just as certain there will be some that consider such blue sky scenarios only fit for the land of the fairies.

If we can't get Cloke we need some other mature key forward to improve our structures and to help Clark. I'm excited by the opportunities ahead.

*If mods would prefer this thread on the draft board naturally they'll move it. I posted here because it's a mixture of blue sky with our core list, as well as drafts/trades.

Hi Ben Hur

[censored] mate f ing brilliant post. Seriously you should get in Todd Viney's ear.

What to say?

First reaction comment.

Moloney/Sylvia

Losing Moloney and Sylvia in one fowl swoop is a little like misplacing your keys and running late for a hot date. IMO both have not yet peaked and still have loads to offer. For Sylvia to be playing good footy stage after a broken back earlier in the year is phenomenal. I regard him as a match winner but also a rogue at the same time. He is class though concede can be lazy and a noted scallywag. All clubs need a scallywag!

Moloney

a beast and will get better.

Taggert

Saw this kid play a game for Casey earlier in the year and fair dinkum immediately noted he's going to NBT! Sadly then got injured and disappeared.

Not familiar with some of the inclusions but will back your judgement and agree we have to adopt a totally different mindset and all is not doom and gloom.

I do like Bate, Tapscott, Petterd. Like Taggert, Tynan has hardly had a crack yet so to let them go so early is a huge call.

In another forum advocating "MASS CULL" noted our 1-4 year tier players came in at the start of Bailey's tenure not only had to adjust to Bailey's "unique" game style but now Neeld's way which is significantly different again. I went on to suggest Neeld may give these Guys..the Bartrams, Mortons, Bates , Tapscotts another season to see if it all gels.

Everyone knows I'm not a Neeld Man but I may be wrong. Lets not go there.

Cloke i

Worth every penny otherwise Collingwood wouldn't be stressing about keeping him. He would repay Melbourne over and over again. Cloke would ignite any midfield in the Competition. The Mids would breath fire knowing there's actually someone to kick to. Moloney/Sylvia/Trengove and some of the your new gun recruits would be foaming in the Mouth with the thought of Clark/Jurrah/Cloke not to mention Green if he plays on. Green seems very fit and still has a lot to offer. It may not be at Melbourne but a GWS would snap him up.

Viney

still very young and wouldn't expect too much in years one and two though after that will obviously be a gun. Who knows though. May turn out to be another Tim Watson or Brian Wilson and absolutely kick butt straight away.

Watts

Still believe this guy will be a star and am comfortable the way the draft panned out. Sure Nic Nat would look good in a Demon Jumper but am convince he's eventually head West anyway. Big Guys take more time. OK for Guys like Darling who already has the huge frame. Watts has the Class, speed and skills and can mark kick and has a football brain. In 5 years he will be Captain of the MFC. IMO of course:)

No mention of Sellar? Like Magner and later Couch all were mature players brought in for "instant effect" but didn't work out and IMO bad calls by Neeld and merely stopped guys like Taggert, Davis, Cook, Tynan getting games from the start. A little like filling holes with bit of Poly filler. Magner certainly is a hard nut and will be an absolute GUN in suburban or Country Football but not at AFL level. He was ok though and strangely enough one of my favourite players this year.

Leigh Williams

Another Cloke without to outlay the big Coin? IMO he's better than Cook and is nearly over a horror run of sickness and injuries.