I gave Bailey 3 years without getting stuck into him, even though his sides only ran one way. The least I can do for Neeld is afford him some charity in his first year.

We all need to collectively take a deep breath.

Neeld is not playing to lose, but he is certainly not playing to 'win at all costs' either.

He is sorting the wheat from the chaff at the moment and to do that you have to make strategic decisions that may not have the best outcome/s on game day.

This is the hard road that will eventually (hopefully) be the basis of a team that will not just challenge for the finals but the ultimate piece of silverware that we all desire.

The question needs to be asked - Do you want the club to seriously challenge for the flag? Or do you want a middling team that has no chance for the ultimate prize?

I'll take the first option every time thanks!

Scrutinise Neeld & Co. all you like but please wait until at least next year to do it.

Careful DeeMfc, you're making too much sense. And as far as Tonatopia and Hardnut go, you're wasting your breath. These two have had an anti-Neeld agenda from day one for whatever reason.

There was always going to be some collateral damage with some supporters not prepared to stomach the hard measures required to overhaul our front-running playing style and stinking club culture. That these types think it's all just going to happen at the click of Dorothy's heels only shows how little footy acumen they have.

Ah range rover rears his ugly head.

So, if in 2011, our fitness levels were so bad, how did we win so many games.

Also, this constant criticism of our list is pathetic. I think we have a very talented list, the equal of the swans who are sitting top of the table. It seems that every excuse in the world is being used to excuse our performance. And it is the players that are being blamed. You've heard the saying, "a good tradesman does not blame his tool".

When is a reason not an excuse?

And while I would appreciate not playing AFL like it's NHL (playing three periods...) I much prefer being 'an AFL side' for three quarters to looking like a VFL side for four quarters. So progress is there.

Everything else is just bluster:

I am firmly of the belief that we are attempting to get this group up to AFL standards in terms of sport science and what each player can do with their body shape and output and it is going to take time for that to have an impact.

Some others are happy to rue a coaching appointment they have no proof was falsely handled and constantly ask for removal of said coach on the evidence of 4 months.

Who knows who is on the right side of history? But my thinking doesn't involve stagnant pessimism and the reek of pathetic wallowing in hopelessness so it's easier on the heartstrings...

Ah range rover rears his ugly head.

So, if in 2011, our fitness levels were so bad, how did we win so many games.

Also, this constant criticism of our list is pathetic. I think we have a very talented list, the equal of the swans who are sitting top of the table. It seems that every excuse in the world is being used to excuse our performance. And it is the players that are being blamed. You've heard the saying, "a good tradesman does not blame his tool".

Last year we drew with sydney and defeated a [censored] poor Brisbane, a first year club in GC, A club that wouldn't play for their coach (Adelaide),the bombers as they are our [censored], The tigers who were our equal,Port adelaide who were being touted as the worst team since Fitzroy and Freo who were ravaged with injuries. Our wins were over rated. We finished 13th only above Adelaide who sacked their coach a Brisbane team who tried to steal a flag and backfired with Mature players and Fevola issues. Port who were awful and a first year team. Wow what a season. We were flat track bullies against the dud sides any sides who were even with us in talent Tigers,bulldogs and North we struggled against. We were going no where fast. 2011 had many more bad teams then 2012 has.

It may be better for us all to think of this year as one long pre-season, because that's how it's being used by Neeld and his staff. New gameplans, structures etc have already been talked about here a lot, but he's also giving games to those he wants/needs to see enough of to determine their future a little more than those he sees as developing talents.

We're also working on "external" things like fitness, recovery, culture etc at the same time, so our players have a mouthful at the moment and it'll take a while for them to chew it all up and digest it.

This is not to say this year doesn't hurt for us supporters, I'm thoroughly depressed, but it's an essential process and you could almost think of it as we're getting a head start on the rest of the comp for next year.

So in saying all that, how about we change the Game Day and Post Match threads to Training Report threads.....

Let's just keep the coaching staff accountable.

Let's just keep the coaching staff accountable.

Just as we will keep posters accountable.

Ah range rover rears his ugly head.

So, if in 2011, our fitness levels were so bad, how did we win so many games.

Also, this constant criticism of our list is pathetic. I think we have a very talented list, the equal of the swans who are sitting top of the table. It seems that every excuse in the world is being used to excuse our performance. And it is the players that are being blamed. You've heard the saying, "a good tradesman does not blame his tool".

I don't believe that Sydney's list is choc full of talent, but they do have a superstar in Goodes, they do have an outside mid in AA form with 32 goals in Jetta, and they do have an engine room of contested ball winning mids in Kennedy, McVeigh, Jack, Hannebery and Jude Bolton. How do our mids stack up against theirs and what part of the ground are games won and lost ? Their 5 grunt midfielders average over 21 possessions a game, whereas we have one mid that averages over 21 possessions a game. And we don't have an express line breaker like Jetta, although that's Blease's challenge for next year. When we get our midfield right we'll start winning lots of games of football. I reckon we'll be a far better unit within two years, but comparing the output of the two clubs now shows a complete lack of understanding as to where we're at and where they're at. But at least you're good at something.

I could mention their experienced leadership group and a coaching panel that's been in place for nearly a decade, but it would probably fall on deaf ears.

I am trying to say that we have a decent playing list. That's all.

Frustrating loss but unfortunately it was inevitable, wasn't it? I don't particularly like Mick Malthouse as a commentator but I value his opinions very highly (how couldn't you) and he had as written off as soon as Jamar had the red vest, canning the sub rule as unfair in situations like today. Bennell is no star but his injury put as down to 2 on the bench, curtains.

How exactly did the sub rule work against us yesterday? If anything, it worked in our favour!

Don't get me wrong, I hate the sub rule, but yesterday Jamar went down in the first quarter, and we subbed him out. At that point, our rotations were not dimished below Fremantle's because we both had three usable players on the bench. If it was the old 4-0 system, we'd have been down to 3 with them at 4. So it helped us!

Of course Neeld should come under criticism but for mine there are too many limiting factors that he has not had enough control over at this time to effectively critique or lay the blame primarily at him.

He did not draft the majority of the list.

He did not ignore the defensive aspects of football for the last 5 years

He did not leave mature players who are not up to it on the list for 6-8 years

He did not develop a list with poor endurance and general conditioning

We are coming from a long way back and his attempts at righting the above factors I think has been the right approach.

The trading for Clark was a fantastic move, Taggert and Tynan both with limited view appear to be good mid range picks and Sellar as a cheap mature key defensive post has served well when played there.

He has given the mature players no favouritism and has allowed the mature NQR's every opportunity to show what they have. I am sure most will be gone next year.

By all reports the squad has been thrashed on the track maybe to the detriment of their actual performances and injury to improve their conditioning as quickly as possible in preparation for anoth bigger pre season next year.

Neeld has not been perfect, our poor starts to games and a lack of moving to a plan B when in trouble is of concern however most find it hard to charge because of the other factors. I am sure the focus will move more firmly onto him next year when he has had 12 months to further influence these factors.

Good post. Agree with the problems he's had to inherit and hence aren't his fault, and also agree with the problems he's created himself. I don't like his tendency to put numbers behind the ball, and neither did Malthouse yesterday. We struggle enough as it is to go inside 50 and score. Putting numbers behind the ball only hampers that.

How about our refusal to use the corridor? Dosnt this seem a bit one-dimensional.

We turn it over enough as it is along the boundary. If we start going through the middle we're only going to find ourselves further behind.

Your posts are becoming increasingly worthless.

I am not saying that we should have kept Bailey. Actually, I think we should have got malthouse.

You wanted Malthouse yet bag Neeld for his adoption of his mentor's boundary line strategy?

C'mon, let's hear you explain yet another hole in that piece of swiss cheese you're peddling.

You wanted Malthouse yet bag Neeld for his adoption of his mentor's boundary line strategy?

C'mon, let's hear you explain yet another hole in that piece of swiss cheese you're peddling.

Not saying I agree with tonatopia, but gotta say, I don't think many if any would have taken Neeld over Malthouse...

Don't get me wrong, I hate the sub rule, but yesterday Jamar went down in the first quarter, and we subbed him out. At that point, our rotations were not dimished below Fremantle's because we both had three usable players on the bench. If it was the old 4-0 system, we'd have been down to 3 with them at 4. So it helped us!

Didn't hear the commentary so I can't really speak for him - but I think I've heard Malthouse before say that he would prefer 6 on the interchange (or around that number) which would vastly limit the impact of such injuries.

Not saying whether I agree or disagree, but I believe this may be what he meant.

I actuaully enjoyed the time I spent at the game (had to leave late in 3rd) but if you honestly thought we would win with Jamar out, JB out and the lack of polish up forward you were being very optimistic indeed.

Was good to see Col put together another solid effort, Steff (who I have not seen enough from) competed and kicked well, Tommy Mac just brilliant up to the time I left.

Things are not going to change over night, the same frustations are occurring but our ball movement is getting better but still lacking polish. We turn it over too easily but we were in the game with 1-2 men down most of the game. Good effort and it will get better.

Let's just keep the coaching staff accountable.

So what's your answer? Do you think we shod sack Neeld? Doing that would only prove that we are an absolute basketcase with no right to compete in a professional competition. If you think our list is good l, as good as Sydney's, and dint even take into account the injuries we've had or the fact Neeld is in his first season and has inherited some longstanding problems within the club then I can't really help you. I'd say what I really thought but I don't want to get banned for poster abuse.

I don't believe that Sydney's list is choc full of talent, but they do have a superstar in Goodes, they do have an outside mid in AA form with 32 goals in Jetta, and they do have an engine room of contested ball winning mids in Kennedy, McVeigh, Jack, Hannebery and Jude Bolton. How do our mids stack up against theirs and what part of the ground are games won and lost ? Their 5 grunt midfielders average over 21 possessions a game, whereas we have one mid that averages over 21 possessions a game. And we don't have an express line breaker like Jetta, although that's Blease's challenge for next year. When we get our midfield right we'll start winning lots of games of football. I reckon we'll be a far better unit within two years, but comparing the output of the two clubs now shows a complete lack of understanding as to where we're at and where they're at. But at least you're good at something.

I could mention their experienced leadership group and a coaching panel that's been in place for nearly a decade, but it would probably fall on deaf ears.

Probably? That's generous.

"We're not at a stage really where we can change too much about what's going on in a game. Game plan A, that's hard enough to learn. Three quarters into a game, when you're two short, you can't try and pull game plan B out."

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/dockers-stifle-demons-20120714-2234g.html#ixzz20ffQ6q8j

Surely when you are 20 points down with 10 minutes to go, the message needs to be to play on and use the corridor. The fact that this message never came is very disappointing IMO.

Difficult game to analyse, apart from the last quarter I thought we fought all the time and the last quarter CAN be put down to lack of legs from our injury toll.

There were plenty of positives to take from the day but unfortunately it will be overshadowed by the fact we lay down, every other quarter we able to find goals at the right time to step the flow but no one could do that and then once the game was done we went back to what know and that's playing stupid, unskilled footy.

F$ me we're getting some bad luck though.

And 13000 for the crowd, seriously some Melbourne fans need a kick up the backside, Jimmy worked so hard to get this club out of debt and they can't even bother to turn up for a match just because it's at Etihad.

Or the Flu.

Good post. Agree with the problems he's had to inherit and hence aren't his fault, and also agree with the problems he's created himself. I don't like his tendency to put numbers behind the ball, and neither did Malthouse yesterday. We struggle enough as it is to go inside 50 and score. Putting numbers behind the ball only hampers that.

i wasnt convinced it was Neeld instructing the players to do this, rather like the Tigers yesterday players were tired or getting too lazy to move back into position. Or perhaps reactive footy once again.

The whole club, on every level is being stripped back bare. I don't consider there to be too many supporters with half an idea that would not agree that club culture has been the major hindrance to list development and on-field success. The hard edge that Neeld spruiked so much when he got the job is under construction. I can see that.

Massive change does not, and will not result in immediate success. There has to be some short term pain for long term gain.

But yeah, there's some tough diggin ahead...

This, there ya go.

Things have been clipped & new growth is appearing.

You wanted Malthouse yet bag Neeld for his adoption of his mentor's boundary line strategy?

C'mon, let's hear you explain yet another hole in that piece of swiss cheese you're peddling.

Who would ever pick an apprentice over his master? Your a bafoon!

Ps. Arent you the bloke that reckoned jones was no good. Well done mate.

Suck it up princess No good coach's in 50 years I believe Daniher would have something to say about that. Our facilities have been reported to be pretty good unless you have been down there lately maybe you could give some in depth knowledge into that instead of spewing up rhetoric you have probably heard from Greg Denhim. I could go on but like trying to explain the holding the ball rules to my wife THERE IS NO POINT!

Suck it up princess No good coach's in 50 years I believe Daniher would have something to say about that. Our facilities have been reported to be pretty good unless you have been down there lately maybe you could give some in depth knowledge into that instead of spewing up rhetoric you have probably heard from Greg Denhim. I could go on but like trying to explain the holding the ball rules to my wife THERE IS NO POINT!

Your a bafoon!

I might be new to this site, however I am amazed at the amount of apologists for poor demon performances. I believe Neeld will change things but he has inherited a B grade list. This must be an indictment on past recruiters coaches and administrators. Oh let's not forget those on the current list who should not be on an AFL list.

And for those slow hand clappers who apologise every week for losing....please please get some mongrel as supporters...you appear just as bad as the Melbourne on field performances in 2012.