Pick 12 and player to Port, Boak to Geelong, Trent West to MFC

We lose pick 12 and a player ? For West ?

Hooley Dooley.....

Is it a full moon ?

I heard Viney was one of the names that makes this a super draft.

Everyone keeps on running over this issue - what if Viney is worth Pick 3?

Are we dupes if we pick him?

Because we won't know for sure until about 2017.

No- I am one of the advocates of taking Viney at whatever pick need be- I don't so much care what "value" we get with the Viney pick- I worry about the player we may miss out on because we had to take Viney with a high pick- not picking Viney himself.

I think you missed the point.

So, we are about to become involved in the "damned if you do, damned if you don't" father-son business. What would be worse, paying a high price for a father-son who subsequently doesn't make it or not being prepared to do so and missing out on a gem? Other teams have faced this dilemma with mixed results. St Kilda appears to have got it right by not taking Sam Sheldon while (arguably) Collingwood might have got it wrong by not selecting Liam Picken. On the other side of the coin, Collingwood selected Brayden Shaw and we selected Chris Johnson, neither of which produced much value.

On balance, I'd go with what I think is the riskier strategy of paying the high price and keeping Viney. If it has to be pick 3, so be it.

Pick 12 and player to Port, Boak to Geelong, Trent West to MFC

Your trade scenarios suck. Seriously pick 12 and a player for West? Think about things!

Your trade scenarios suck. Seriously pick 12 and a player for West? Think about things!

We gave up pick 12 for Clark, so how would this scenario be much different?

And name another one of my scenarios that suck?

Something constructive or don't bother quoting me with responses like this one.

Edited July 2, 201213 yr by olisik

If you can't see how giving up a player and pick 12 for West is much different than a straight swap of 12 for Clark then I'm not even going to bother trying to explain it.

Edited July 2, 201213 yr by SloonieMcFloonieloone

Whats with Trent West??????? You don't need a top ruck man more so top midfielders so no way

We lose pick 12 and a player ? For West ?

Hooley Dooley.....

Is it a full moon ?

couldn't be h_t, I'm completely in the dark

If you can't see how giving up a player and pick 12 for West is much different than a straight swap of 12 for Clark then I'm not even going to bother trying to explain it.

Firstly we got Clark cheap as he wanted to leave, i doubt Brisbane would have given him away for that if he wasn't about to walk out.

West could be a ruck turned forward, be a better option then paying overs for Cloke.

Im guessing you cant explain it or suggest something better rather then 'not going to bother' after you just bothered to write a useless response to my suggestion

Edited July 2, 201213 yr by olisik

Dr, maybe you can answer me this one. What 17 year old that is eligible for this years mini draft (keeping in mind not all 17 year olds are eligible) is worth giving up pick 3 or 4 for, just so we can get Viney with a 2nd round pick?

Wouldn't have a clue.

But if we can "do a deal" (I am skeptical) for a 17yo pick which allows us to get Viney in second round that will be a win/win.

Obviously we get Viney second round - win.

17yo pick, while not able to play next year, will be one of the highest rated youngsters in the country. No these don't always work out and yes there is a great deal of speculation (especially considering the length of time between now and 2013 draft) but looking at last years picks, no-one is saying O'Meara or Crouch are going to be a bust. It is likely that getting one of these kids for pick 3 & Viney will be a better outcome than getting a mid-20's pick & Viney - win

or you can't explain it, or suggest something better more like it

Clark would appear better value than West, we paid Pick 12 for Clark, so your call of Pick 12 plus a player for West seems overpaying for West.

Clark would appear better value than West, we paid Pick 12 for Clark, so your call of Pick 12 plus a player for West seems overpaying for West.

As I have already said, the only reason we got Clark for 12 was because he was about to walk out of the club.

If Clark was happy enough staying at Brisbane I highly doubt we would have gotten him for 12.

Wouldn't have a clue.

But if we can "do a deal" (I am skeptical) for a 17yo pick which allows us to get Viney in second round that will be a win/win.

Obviously we get Viney second round - win.

17yo pick, while not able to play next year, will be one of the highest rated youngsters in the country. No these don't always work out and yes there is a great deal of speculation (especially considering the length of time between now and 2013 draft) but looking at last years picks, no-one is saying O'Meara or Crouch are going to be a bust. It is likely that getting one of these kids for pick 3 & Viney will be a better outcome than getting a mid-20's pick & Viney - win

Who is to say that the eligible 17 year olds are going to be worth Pick 3? We may find that we are giving up Pick 3, for a player that may go Pick 10+ in the normal draft. O'Meara was an apparent lock for Top 3 in a normal draft, Crouch was considered 5-10 (from memory), but was the 2nd best player available in the mini draft. I haven't heard of any O'Meara-types in this year's mini dradt (ie. a player that is likely to go top 3 next year).

I have faith in the Club that we will have Pick 3, 4 and 12 in this year's draft, and Viney comes to us in the 2nd round. That would be a win, and we won't have to do 2 things, make a secret deal with GC/GWS and we won't have to sit here for the next 18 months waiting for said 17 year old to start playing for us and having to put up with numerous threads about how they will be the next best thing. It also means we can start to get a bit of stability with our list so we can chase a premiership rather than high draft picks.

As I have already said, the only reason we got Clark for 12 was because he was about to walk out of the club.

If Clark was happy enough staying at Brisbane I highly doubt we would have gotten him for 12.

We got Clark for 12 because they didn't accept 14 from Freo.

If Geelong took Pick 28 for Mumford, I don't think we should go offering them Pick 12 for West.

It's ridiculously early for this kind of stuff but here we go anyway . . .

I'd be keen for a scenario like the following to unfold:

Toumous (pick 3)

Boak (trade pick 4)

Prestia (trade pick 13)

Viney (second round F/S)

I'm very confident that the MFC mind games will work. Gold Coast and GWS won't nominate Jack in the first round and we'll grab him in the second round.

Toumpas fits the bill. He's fast, dynamic and finds the footy. He's got a good motor and uses it pretty well.

I think Boak is worth pick 4 and I think we'll need to use it to trump other teams. Gaff, Morabito, Hartlett, Morton and Leuenberger are the last four pick 4's (outside of Hoskin-Elliott last year who has only played 3 games). Boak was taken the pick after Leuenberger in 2006. He gives us instant experience, leadership and hard running.

Prestia seems to be the forgotten man. He's been averaging about 20 touches until he nipped his hamstring this year. He's small but uses it well and is a committed tackler. He'd be entering his third year of footy.

I love the look of Viney. I'm a little concerned by his size but the one attribute that most overlook on here is how well he reads the ball around the stoppages and once he gets it he rarely fumbles. The kid is a competitive beast. Pick 30 will be a steal.

2013 midfield would include Boak, Jones, Gysberts, Grimes, Howe, Trengove, Viney, McKenzie, Prestia, Toumpas, Blease, Sylvia, Taggert.

That's starting to look like a midfield with a bit of depth and potential. Add Strauss, Tapscott and Tynan and Morton (I haven't given up) giving us further run and we might just be able to turn this around more quickly than many here expect.

Edited July 3, 201213 yr by Goodvibes

Firstly we got Clark cheap as he wanted to leave, i doubt Brisbane would have given him away for that if he wasn't about to walk out.

West could be a ruck turned forward, be a better option then paying overs for Cloke.

clark's market value was pick 12, Freo were offering pick 16.

It's a mid first round pick, plus a hefty contract. It's not getting him cheap. It's his market value. Other interested parties couldn't match or better it.

Clark is much > West value wise.

So you're suggestion is seen as lop-sided seeing as you also offered a player up with pick 12 to secure a vast inferior player (West) to Clark.

Query, would we be interested in Justin Koschitski if available and if so what would we be prepared to part with to get him?

Looks to me as if a change of scenery might just be what he needs at the minute and If my sauces are correct St.Kilda might be willing to deal!

ANY TAKERS?

Query, would we be interested in Justin Koschitski if available and if so what would we be prepared to part with to get him?

Looks to me as if a change of scenery might just be what he needs at the minute and If my sauces are correct St.Kilda might be willing to deal!

ANY TAKERS?

Your only joking right?

Kosi is the biggest spud this side of Bate.

No not at all, I reckon he would fit into CHF nicely and when wiser heads prevail and Jack Watts plays HFF I reckon you could build a forward line around this with Clarke as Key forward..

Or would you rather Sellar, Bate, or Dunn as your key target in forward fifty?

Or maybe Born again Garland/ Rivers ( Both goal kicking machines?) Eh

Not knocking Garlo Or Rive excellent defenders, but if we have plans to play this as permanent thing then we are really gone

Lucas Cook has shown Cameo but really hasn't dominated at Casey at this piont and if he cannot crack a game in this climate, well Says a lot.

You were saying??

Edited July 2, 201213 yr by picket fence

Firstly we got Clark cheap as he wanted to leave, i doubt Brisbane would have given him away for that if he wasn't about to walk out.

West could be a ruck turned forward, be a better option then paying overs for Cloke.

Im guessing you cant explain it or suggest something better rather then 'not going to bother' after you just bothered to write a useless response to my suggestion

Sigh..

It doesn't matter the circumstances behind Clark leaving Brisbane- the fact is we got him for 12. Player and 12 for a ruckman is not the same value as 12 for Clark. Period.

Tell me the last time a ruckman was "turned into a forward" successfully. What's that? Crickets.... thought so. Ruckmans are ruckmans. if you could turn them into forwards why wouldn't we try that with the man we just signed for 3 years- that's Jamar, incase you're wondering.

I didn't bother answering you because you obviously lack the mental capacity to recognize for yourself that we don't need another ruckman- the midfield is our major concern. What a waste of a pick that would be. I'd rather throw pick 12 away for a small forward. We have Martin who can ruck, Gawn who we're developing and will take a while and we have Jamar for another 3. Plus you can always take a ruck that isn't getting game time relatively cheaply at trade time.

Think about what we actually need before throwing up ludicrous trade scenarios!

Can we have the message 'Father/Sons are organised prior to Trade Week' emblazoned on the Demonland banner.

I think he'll stay and Reid is their next priority. Then Beams may be squeezed out if we offer him double what Collingwood does, but Collingwood will demand the highest pick we have - they'll want pick 4 or they'll say "into the draft son"

If he goes into the draft, that would be good as well. It would IMO, elevate our picks by One.

I reckon the Suns or Giants would use they're first pick on him.

I think the extra pick in the Preseason draft would be handy, just in case something good slips through.

Can we have the message 'Father/Sons are organised prior to Trade Week' emblazoned on the Demonland banner.

not a silly idea actually. Though people would still have to read it....and comprehend. Might be a lot to ask !! lol

The cupboard's not bare, it's just a bit wonky.

Jamar - 2010 AA (injured)

Martin - Serviceable - presents decently and has passable tap work

Spencer - less said the better

Fitzpatrick - Coming back from injury, looks to be being groomed as the backup ruck/forward

Gawn - Horrific run with injuries, wouldn't be surprised if it's due to growth, has shown good signs.

That's about 1/8th of the list in the ruck department.

I doubt very much that we'll reach for a ruckman at this stage.

I'd take one, a bottom age rookie ruck that'll take most of next year in the VFL development league, prior to a ruck cleanup of our list in 2013.

I have no issues with us taking Viney at 3 if he is rated as a top 5 pick. MFC are playing mind games with GWS and GC. Beams or Boak with pick 4 i would be ok with. Both are at the right age and experience which is what we really need the right mixture of experience and highly talented mids through the midfield.

I'm of the belief the club wants a few more experienced players on the list. Players who struggle to get a game at one of the higher clubs because of there success of the current 22. Get the right balance

Viney is just Rough tough & honest. Not particularly Skilled, not quick. Just hard in & under. they're are others in this 1st rnd with those attributes.

When Jack comes up against top AFL Mids he won't have the advantage of being aggressive before his years.

The other early picks, many are tough, quick & highly skilled as well.

I don't think we should use a top 5 pick on him.

I think he and a Vlastuin type would be of similar value.