Ross Lyon v Mark Neeld

[binman 43,762]

There were some comments flying around on Demonland that we should have gone after Lyon as a coach a bit harder and that he wouls have been better than Neeld. My view is i'm bloody glad we didn't as Lyon and his approach to footy shits me (i expect Neeld will get more expansive once we master the defensive part of the game - Lyon will always remain dour it would seem). However i understand the argument that his experience would have been useful.

However there is an obvious parallel between the two coaches in terms of their new positions. Both have taken over flashy, attacking sides that have been heavily criticised over the last 5 - 10 years for a poor culture, being inconsistent and flaky. Also both taking over from coaches that had an aggressive, attacking centre corridor style and are replacing that style with a boundary hugging contested footy style.

Wait for the big questions of Lyon after today's game. Two second half goals and only five for the match.With a side that all pundits rate as much more talented than the Melbourne list and much closer to a flag. If they were a Victorian side they would be under the pump here but i bet the Freo fans will get increasingly vocal (sounds familiar).

So who would people prefer, Lyon or Neeld?

Edited May 27, 2012 by binman

[Axis of Bob 11,844]

When Lyon took over St Kilda, who were a flashy attacking side with plenty of stars but were massive underperformers, they took a while to get going. They missed the finals that year and had only 4 wins after 11 rounds.

2 years later they were 20-2.

[Guest José Mourinho]

I like Lyon's influence on St Kilda, but I think his dictatorial style is ultimately unhealthy.

I'm happier with Neeld.

Edited May 27, 2012 by José Mourinho

[Born to Run 204]

Neeld for me. Reckon long term he will get the style right, when that happens, I believe it will be successful.

Lyon hugely expensive. I am not sure he would be able to work up such a young list without a any mature age stars. At St kilda he had a lot of stars. Same at freo.

[thaipantsman 180]

There were some comments flying around on Demonland that we should have gone after Lyon as a coach a bit harder and that he wouls have been better than Neeld. My view is i'm bloody glad we didn't as Lyon and his approach to footy shits me (i expect Neeld will get more expansive once we master the defensive part of the game - Lyon will always remain dour it would seem). However i understand the argument that his experience would have been useful.

However there is an obvious parallel between the two coaches in terms of their new positions. Both have taken over flashy, attacking sides that have been heavily criticised over the last 5 - 10 years for a poor culture, being inconsistent and flaky. Also both taking over from coaches that had an aggressive, attacking centre corridor style and are replacing that style with a boundary hugging contested footy style.

Wait for the big questions of Lyon after today's game. Two second half goals and only five for the match.With a side that all pundits rate as much more talented than the Melbourne list and much closer to a flag. If they were a Victorian side they would be under the pump here but i bet the Freo fans will get increasingly vocal (sounds familiar).

So who would people prefer, Lyon or Neeld?

"With a side that all pundits rate as much more talented than the Melbourne list and much closer to a flag."

This wasn't necessarily the case by ALL the pundits. Melbourne were considered to have one of the best lists going around and were considered a genuine Finals chance this year. To Take the next step .

Neeld is not in Lyon's league! Neeld has started his career and hastn't won a fight yet. Lyon has the runs on the board. Extremely stiff not to win two Grand Finals with the Saints. Trying to think of a boxing analogy here?? Help me out guys.

If Dees played Eagles today a 100 point loss would be considered as promising. Not fair to judge Lyon on the loss v Eagles today. Got to look at Big Picture.

To answer your Q IMO there is no comparism. LYON!

"Hardest team to play against this year"

Here are some comments after the the Melbourne game that are hard to argue with and from a more nuetral viewpoint.

• 
  Brian of Jolimont Posted at 7:24 PM Today

  
  

  OK, let me put this in perspective before Mark "Mr. Man-Management" Neeld claims that Melbourne is beginning to get it together ... Carlton have been HUGELY over-rated and will fall into the eight but won't do any September damage. Melbourne, meanwhile, are still rudderless. Their second half today brought into sharp focus the magnitude of the mistake they made when they asked Garry Lyon to (in effect) choose the next coach. On this weekend's form GWS are a real chance to beat Melbourne - TWICE - before the season's over.

  
  

• 
  Dave of Malvern Posted at 5:48 PM Today

  
  

  Dees are a disgrace. Years of poor management. No prospects, no good kids coming through. There will be a mass exodus at seasons end, who would want to play there. Dont blame the new coach not his fault rather years of arrogance. What to do? Merge with North seems the only solution.

  
  

[Dee Fan 3,247]

"With a side that all pundits rate as much more talented than the Melbourne list and much closer to a flag."

This wasn't necessarily the case by ALL the pundits. Melbourne were considered to have one of the best lists going around and were considered a genuine Finals chance this year. To Take the next step .

Neeld is not in Lyon's league! Neeld has started his career and hastn't won a fight yet. Lyon has the runs on the board. Extremely stiff not to win two Grand Finals with the Saints. Trying to think of a boxing analogy here?? Help me out guys.

If Dees played Eagles today a 100 point loss would be considered as promising. Not fair to judge Lyon on the loss v Eagles today. Got to look at Big Picture.

To answer your Q IMO there is no comparism. LYON!

"Hardest team to play against this year"

Here are some comments after the the Melbourne game that are hard to argue with and from a more nuetral viewpoint.

• Brian of Jolimont Posted at 7:24 PM Today
  
  
  OK, let me put this in perspective before Mark "Mr. Man-Management" Neeld claims that Melbourne is beginning to get it together ... Carlton have been HUGELY over-rated and will fall into the eight but won't do any September damage. Melbourne, meanwhile, are still rudderless. Their second half today brought into sharp focus the magnitude of the mistake they made when they asked Garry Lyon to (in effect) choose the next coach. On this weekend's form GWS are a real chance to beat Melbourne - TWICE - before the season's over.
  
  
• Dave of Malvern Posted at 5:48 PM Today
  
  
  Dees are a disgrace. Years of poor management. No prospects, no good kids coming through. There will be a mass exodus at seasons end, who would want to play there. Dont blame the new coach not his fault rather years of arrogance. What to do? Merge with North seems the only solution.
  
  

From a neutral point? are you kidding every man and his dog want's to put the boots in to us, we are a National Sport so it's fashionable to bag us, this is just drivel from the mouths of idiots that have no idea.

[Carlos Danger 380]

Just like he didn't get a flag at St Kilda, he wont at Fremantle.

I am very happy it's their premium dollars and not ours.

[The heart beats true 18,145]

If you watched Ross Lyon's press conference today he said that they are evaluating the list and will be cutting players if they don't perform by end of year. He also said that the coaching group can get better and can get more from the players.

Has Neeld ever said either of these things? I'm not being sarcastic. I'm actually interested if he has. I felt like Lyon put the whole club on notice. I'd LOVE Mark to do the same thing but I fear he doesn't have the experience and history of success to fall back on.

[Johnny Karate 559]

"Merge with North seems the only solution."

I agree - it's hard to argue with idiots who will only drag you down to their level & beat you with experience. I have no problem with anyone who wants to critique the team or the coaches' performance but some of the crap & defeatism that spews forth from so called supporters is mind boggling! I'd hate to be in the trenches with you!

[Guest José Mourinho]

If you watched Ross Lyon's press conference today he said that they are evaluating the list and will be cutting players if they don't perform by end of year. He also said that the coaching group can get better and can get more from the players.

Has Neeld ever said either of these things? I'm not being sarcastic. I'm actually interested if he has. I felt like Lyon put the whole club on notice. I'd LOVE Mark to do the same thing but I fear he doesn't have the experience and history of success to fall back on.

It's a bloody press conference.

None of the coaches or players are listening to it.

It's not about what has been said publicly, it's about what is said behind closed doors.

[The heart beats true 18,145]

It's not about what has been said publicly, it's about what is said behind closed doors.

Absolute bullsh#t Jose. Potential Free Agent players, player managers, sponsors, and 17 year old draft picks don't get a chance to hear what is said behind closed doors. All this club trades on is how it plays every week, and the way it acknowledges those efforts to the media.

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

Neeld.

Thaipantsman - I fear you're guilty of yet more greatness on this thread.

[rjay 25,088]

Absolute bullsh#t Jose. Potential Free Agent players, player managers, sponsors, and 17 year old draft picks don't get a chance to hear what is said behind closed doors. All this club trades on is how it plays every week, and the way it acknowledges those efforts to the media.

It certainly trades on how it plays but as for the rest (media v closed doors) if they are that stupid then we don't want them and 17 yo draft picks who might be don't get a choice.

Edited May 27, 2012 by rjay

[Deetective Sgt. Taggert 389]

If you watched Ross Lyon's press conference today he said that they are evaluating the list and will be cutting players if they don't perform by end of year. He also said that the coaching group can get better and can get more from the players.

Has Neeld ever said either of these things? I'm not being sarcastic. I'm actually interested if he has. I felt like Lyon put the whole club on notice. I'd LOVE Mark to do the same thing but I fear he doesn't have the experience and history of success to fall back on.

Didn't Neeld effectively do this in his first post-match press conference!?

“I am not going to go down a similar road and continue to put blind faith in players - no way, absolutely no way. And that’s fair enough. That’s not a threat. It’s not anything other than being honest, and that’s what the players were told."

[Viney12 196]

"With a side that all pundits rate as much more talented than the Melbourne list and much closer to a flag."

This wasn't necessarily the case by ALL the pundits. Melbourne were considered to have one of the best lists going around and were considered a genuine Finals chance this year. To Take the next step .

Neeld is not in Lyon's league! Neeld has started his career and hastn't won a fight yet. Lyon has the runs on the board. Extremely stiff not to win two Grand Finals with the Saints. Trying to think of a boxing analogy here?? Help me out guys.

If Dees played Eagles today a 100 point loss would be considered as promising. Not fair to judge Lyon on the loss v Eagles today. Got to look at Big Picture.

To answer your Q IMO there is no comparism. LYON!

"Hardest team to play against this year"

Here are some comments after the the Melbourne game that are hard to argue with and from a more nuetral viewpoint.

• Brian of Jolimont Posted at 7:24 PM Today
  
  
  OK, let me put this in perspective before Mark "Mr. Man-Management" Neeld claims that Melbourne is beginning to get it together ... Carlton have been HUGELY over-rated and will fall into the eight but won't do any September damage. Melbourne, meanwhile, are still rudderless. Their second half today brought into sharp focus the magnitude of the mistake they made when they asked Garry Lyon to (in effect) choose the next coach. On this weekend's form GWS are a real chance to beat Melbourne - TWICE - before the season's over.
  
  
• Dave of Malvern Posted at 5:48 PM Today
  
  
  Dees are a disgrace. Years of poor management. No prospects, no good kids coming through. There will be a mass exodus at seasons end, who would want to play there. Dont blame the new coach not his fault rather years of arrogance. What to do? Merge with North seems the only solution.
  
  

Neeld never said the "Hardest team to play against this year"

He said he's aiming to coach "the team that's the hardest to play against in the AFL". "That means all over the ground, we're going to be the hardest to play against,"

His goal will take time

You seem intent on rubbishing Neeld, yet not taking into account he has not implemented a few changes, he has turned the entire club upside down, which clearly needed doing

Things on field don't look great right now, but surely he needs time to put his entire plan in place

The fitness alone will take longer than 1 pre season. As Misson said, they're still be flogged on the track NOW due to the fitness levels, this will be corrected in next pre season

You point to a "neutral" comment saying there will be a mass exodus at seasons end

I've been waiting for this supposed mass exodus to happen for the last 3 years

The reality of it is, is we have lost 1 player in this time, to an unprecendented offer.....a bloke that would've left any club he was drafted to for the amount of money he was offered

[Nasher 33,617]

From a neutral point? are you kidding every man and his dog want's to put the boots in to us, we are a National Sport so it's fashionable to bag us, this is just drivel from the mouths of idiots that have no idea.

Spot on, Robbie. The only type of people around at the moment as those who like to pee on us, and MFC supporters. In some cases, the two are one and the same.

[H_T 3,049]

Melbourne were considered to have one of the best lists going around and were considered a genuine Finals chance this year.

What a load of rot ~ !

[binman 43,762]

You point to a "neutral" comment saying there will be a mass exodus at seasons end

I've been waiting for this supposed mass exodus to happen for the last 3 years

The reality of it is, is we have lost 1 player in this time, to an unprecendented offer.....a bloke that would've left any club he was drafted to for the amount of money he was offered

That's right, and besides players can only leave if they're out of contract (or quit footy i suppose). I'm not up on contracts etc but i doubt there's a huge number out of contract at season's end and precious few of them are likely to attract any interest whatsoever from other clubs. Teams might be keen on Jamar but performances like Sunday where as a the key ruck-man he gets the princely total of 5 possessions won't help his cause.

Indeed we have few players full stop that other clubs would want - contracted or uncontracted - which doesn't really put us in good position to trade (perhaps we could package up 5 player lots - "a bit shop soiled but great filler for your VFL affiliate side - get em while they're hot!")

There will be a mass exodus, mark (neeld) my word, but it won't be because players are clamoring to leave. MN will cut as many players as is practicable, i reckon up to 8 or nine.

Edited May 28, 2012 by binman

[rpfc 28,779]

"With a side that all pundits rate as much more talented than the Melbourne list and much closer to a flag."

This wasn't necessarily the case by ALL the pundits. Melbourne were considered to have one of the best lists going around and were considered a genuine Finals chance this year. To Take the next step .

I would say that you are being disengenuous (what a shocker) with this response. He was comparing Fremantle, who have a much better list at the moment and have been playing much better footy than us for quite some years.

And as for finals aspirants - I don't think you will find too many experts that thought we were a chance. I think you remember your own inflated expectations from pre-season and I bet that, oddly enough, you didn't base it on anything that happened in 2011 and instead recollected The Sydney Orgasm Game of 2010 © and the two near misses against the Pies.

Edited May 28, 2012 by rpfc

[Total-Dee 2]

No doubt with runs on the board Lyon is the pick of the 2 coaches.

This question would be better looked at in two years time and we will see what each coach has got then. I see both list as being talented and each coach is currently not getting everything from their list that they would want. I dont like Lyons style of football he coached at st kilda but the results did speak for itself.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,909]

Neeld.

Let me repeat what I've written elsewhere. For the first time that I can remember (and I've been going to the footy for over 40 years) we appear to have an holistic approach to fixing the problems rather than the cut and paste approach. The latter approach is not entirely the fault of the former coaches as they weren't provided with adequate resources to do the job properly.

As much as I hate the current on-field performance I'm more than happy to see a plan being developed and acted upon which should produce long term benefits.

[Carlos Danger 380]

Neeld.

Let me repeat what I've written elsewhere. For the first time that I can remember (and I've been going to the footy for over 40 years) we appear to have an holistic approach to fixing the problems rather than the cut and paste approach. The latter approach is not entirely the fault of the former coaches as they weren't provided with adequate resources to do the job properly.

As much as I hate the current on-field performance I'm more than happy to see a plan being developed and acted upon which should produce long term benefits.

Very good points, was thinking myself a lot of people on here sound like they wanted another coach to gloss over the list and get the club lingering between 6th and 10th for a few years.

I'd much prefer the big changes and to take a shot at becoming one of the elite in the competition. That's what Neeld aims to do.

[thaipantsman 180]

Neeld for me. Reckon long term he will get the style right, when that happens, I believe it will be successful.

Lyon hugely expensive. I am not sure he would be able to work up such a young list without a any mature age stars. At St kilda he had a lot of stars. Same at freo.

Still Neeld?

[Born to Run 204]

Happy to come back and comment on this at the end of next year. Fair to say 2012 has been as hard an introduction to coaching for anyone in the last decade for Neeld. Neeld deserves an opportunity to turn the list over. We are all hearing there were systemic issues within the club. Were there those similar issues at freo?

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Still Neeld?

So what's your point, we've got Neeld and they've got lyon; you either support the club the players and the coach or you [censored] off.

Is there any reason for the bump or do you just think that Freo being a much better side than ours is a reason to bag the coach.