Are we tanking?

[stuie 7,374]

Didn't realise rebuilding a rubbish list and tanking are one and the same...

Really?..... Where have you been the last 15 years?!

[Guest oldman emubitter]

Serious question.

With the quality of the forthcoming draft, the obstacles involved with Father-Son drafting, and the compensation picks, we would be better off purposely losing just like we have previously (whether you acknowledge it or not).

Is that what's happening?

Has to be, surely...

the answers simple, team has the soul of a dead fish

[dee-luded 2,959]

Serious question.

With the quality of the forthcoming draft, the obstacles involved with Father-Son drafting, and the compensation picks, we would be better off purposely losing just like we have previously (whether you acknowledge it or not).

Is that what's happening?

Has to be, surely...

You wonder but no.

The players just aren't coming out with any fire after half time. And we IMO tire a little at the end of each quarter.

I don't know if were in hard work, if our Pre Season has continued in the weights room or what, but I feel sure that the footy dept is doing the best for our long term gains.

IMO we are also testing out some players, to see who will go. And others are being forced to play at Casey, to either earn they're place back, or to learn to play head over football, as we all know.

[Guest oldman emubitter]

No worries CC, but i do hope people within the walls of the club read all this.

The MFC culture at present, and tbh since J Northey left has been soft & wrong.

i don't know 'bout that, thought balmey's "only torps at training" made a statement

[dee-luded 2,959]

with a new coach on a 3 year deal it is not possible...this club is in a very bad state...deadwood must be identified and removed.

Coach said, everyone starts on an equal footing. The slate is clean.

So the coach is trying out & testing players as we watch. While other young fellas are developing @ Casey...

You have to see what you want to keep, before pruning an old tree.

[Guest José Mourinho]

I think Neeld is rebuilding the list in his own image, and that begins with learning to dominate the contested footy, before they move onto the next facet of the game.

It's not working now, but I think this ignorance of uncontested footy is very intentional.

These games, although worth 4 points, are like practice matches for us where we are working on a certain aspect and getting it right before we move onto the next.

If this is what is happening, it is very different, and it's well beyond me whether it will work or not.

Here's hoping.

Edited April 14, 2012 by José Mourinho

[Jerry Lundergard 420]

No, we ain't tanking .. yet.

But, I tell you what, the fact that we might benefit substantially from a terrible ladder positon at the end of this season might just end up being the only thing that prevents me from weeping into my beer each and every week of season '12.

1. First round pick attached to ladder position in reportedly excellent draft

2. Compensation pick attached to ladder position in reportedly excellent draft

3. Small chance of picking up JV with our second round pick, if we finish low enough, making the pick mentioned above in point 1 extra valuable.

That booty would make Ghandi consider tanking.

If there is one thing you can take to your grave, I think it is that there is no way Sheedy will allow us to pick up Viney in the 2nd round. Even if the reincarnations of Buddy and Judd where coming up in this draft, there will still be a bid for Viney from GWS.

[Je Roos Salem 661]

Why tank again????? At least it did something for the Blues. Look where we are now. We just need to harden the [censored] up and not kick in to the exact same place like we did today. And we need some leadership

[dee-luded 2,959]

I think Neeld is rebuilding the list in his own image, and that begins with learning to dominate the contested footy, before they move onto .

It's not working now, but I think this ignorance of uncontested footy is very intentional.

These games, although worth 4 points, are like practice matches for us where we are working on a certain aspect and getting it right before we move onto the next.

If this is what is happening, it is very different, and it's well beyond me whether it will work or not.

Here's hoping.

Yep, I think your right mate.

The game is a very sophisticated one with so little space to work in.

If the game was still in plenty of space it becomes more one on one, and is therefore easier for individuals to shine. This congestion is like British Bulldog, no one has time to balance.

So it is much more difficult for a side to shine, while learning the strategies.

[Guest José Mourinho]

Yep, I think your right mate.

The game is a very sophisticated one with so little space to work in.

If the game was still in plenty of space it becomes more one on one, and is therefore easier for individuals to shine. This congestion is like British Bulldog, no one has time to balance.

So it is much more difficult for a side to shine, while learning the strategies.

Yeah, I think Neeld's working his way through the list too.

Seeing who can and can't win contested footy, to weed out the ones that can't, and they simply won't last in his system.

It seems contested footy is a non negotiable, and if you can do the rest, great.

But if you can't win your own footy to begin with, you're gone.

That's how it looks to me.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

If there is one thing you can take to your grave, I think it is that there is no way Sheedy will allow us to pick up Viney in the 2nd round. Even if the reincarnations of Buddy and Judd where coming up in this draft, there will still be a bid for Viney from GWS.

If we finish second last then Sheedy will have to make a decision whether he wants Viney or Whitfield because the club can call his bluff and say go for it. Viney is not a number 1 pick and I doubt that Sheedy would be stupid enough to pull that trick.

[Matt Demon 1,431]

The reward for finishing in the bottom 3 this year Is bigger than any draft that has gone before us.

Given the Viney situation, If Viney Is viewed to be the 5th or 6th best player in this years draft GWS and GC aren't going to bid for him. therefore we take him with our 2nd round pick.

So if we finish 3rd last this season we walk away from a so called super draft with picks 3,4 (12?) and Viney.

I'm sorry but that Is massive for a club still in rebuilding mode.

For those people that don't believe It would happen.... Well It's been going on for years and while the rules reward teams that finish low on the ladder It will contiue to happen. Especially with two compo picks and a F/S selection.

[Chook 15,013]

I'd love to see Melbourne pick up Jack Viney after his two year stint at GWS is up. Give 'em back a taste of their own medicine.

[Demon Disciple 12,127]

Let me just start out by saying that i will always love the Melbourne Football Club. The players on the other hand have completely lost me. Not because of today alone, but today was the straw that broke the camel's back afaic.

It is now so abundantly apparent that we need to go through another complete re-build. And i might only be 24, but i've just about had enough. I'm of the belief that if you're gonna do something worthwhile, you have to do it right. The point has come where all and sundry at the club need to get behind Neeld 100%, purely because what he brings to the club is an attitude that the club itself has lacked for a very long time.

Neeld is going to rock the boat big time, many will not be able to handle that, from players to staff, supporters and the rest in between. Of course, after 186 something had to be done. Yes, the buck stops with the coach, but the players came away from that day far too easily. We have way too many passengers on board, who are either lazy, arrogant or simply not good enough.

Only the players can control the results out on the field, as such, they are the one's who must be held accountable. I couldn't care if the list was cut back to 20 players come years end (of course it will never happen), so long as we got all of the rotten crap out. We can no longer afford to wean it out slowly, it must all be gotten rid of pretty much in one swoop, otherwise the disgusting culture will continue to fester. All players are fair game come years end.

I look at our list and honestly, i can only see 6 players who i would say are must keeps - even then i think i'm being generous. That is just about as damning as it could get. We have been heavily criticised for getting rid of too many older players. Many we got rid of have proven, imo, to be good calls. The problem with the remaining senior players, is that they are the major culprits of the disgusting culture that this club cannot get rid of.

[Matt Demon 1,431]

If there is one thing you can take to your grave, I think it is that there is no way Sheedy will allow us to pick up Viney in the 2nd round. Even if the reincarnations of Buddy and Judd where coming up in this draft, there will still be a bid for Viney from GWS.

Viney may have signed something declaring his intention of playing for the MFC but I wouldn't think It would be 100% rock solid that we HAVE to pick him. I can tell you now If push comes to shove GWS aren't going to choose Jack Viney over Lachie Whitfield just to spite the Dees. There's just to much on the line for them to take the best player.

[Dee1987 277]

Jack Viney is Father Son they cant pick him.

[Jerry Lundergard 420]

Let me just start out by saying that i will always love the Melbourne Football Club. The players on the other hand have completely lost me. Not because of today alone, but today was the straw that broke the camel's back afaic.

It is now so abundantly apparent that we need to go through another complete re-build. And i might only be 24, but i've just about had enough. I'm of the belief that if you're gonna do something worthwhile, you have to do it right. The point has come where all and sundry at the club need to get behind Neeld 100%, purely because what he brings to the club is an attitude that the club itself has lacked for a very long time.

Neeld is going to rock the boat big time, many will not be able to handle that, from players to staff, supporters and the rest in between. Of course, after 186 something had to be done. Yes, the buck stops with the coach, but the players came away from that day far too easily. We have way too many passengers on board, who are either lazy, arrogant or simply not good enough.

Only the players can control the results out on the field, as such, they are the one's who must be held accountable. I couldn't care if the list was cut back to 20 players come years end (of course it will never happen), so long as we got all of the rotten crap out. We can no longer afford to wean it out slowly, it must all be gotten rid of pretty much in one swoop, otherwise the disgusting culture will continue to fester. All players are fair game come years end.

I look at our list and honestly, i can only see 6 players who i would say are must keeps - even then i think i'm being generous. That is just about as damning as it could get. We have been heavily criticised for getting rid of too many older players. Many we got rid of have proven, imo, to be good calls. The problem with the remaining senior players, is that they are the major culprits of the disgusting culture that this club cannot get rid of.

I agree with all that you have written, but my concern is the trend of teams pounding us with uncontested footy and also on the scoreboard has been happening for 5 games straight(2 NAB), and there seems to be nothing being addressed to counter it. That is a coaches job, and some people may be talking about 5 year plans to fix it, but coaches are paid alot of money to come up with solutions on a week to week basis, so Neeld and Co. address the problem, and earn your paycheck.

[Matt Demon 1,431]

Jack Viney is Father Son they cant pick him.

It Is possible for Jack Viney to end up at another club. You just don't know the rules of how F/S selection works.

[Dee1987 277]

But Melbourne have committed to picking him up they just have to elecate a draft pick!!!

[Dee1987 277]

Doubt they will pull out

[Guest José Mourinho]

If we finish second last then Sheedy will have to make a decision whether he wants Viney or Whitfield because the club can call his bluff and say go for it. Viney is not a number 1 pick and I doubt that Sheedy would be stupid enough to pull that trick.

That's great in theory, but in reality we have given Viney a contract that spans the next 3 years...

[Matt Demon 1,431]

But Melbourne have committed to picking him up they just have to elecate a draft pick!!!

Have we committed to him or do we intend to draft him?

Put yourself In GWS shoes for a sec. Putting a bid In for Viney creates a chance of losing the best kid In the draft.

[Matt Demon 1,431]

That's great in theory, but in reality we have given Viney a contract that spans the next 3 years...

Apparently It's a Heads Of Agreement stating we intend to draft him, Id be surprised If the MFC has completely locked Itself In. It make for Interesting discussion though. Would we take Whitfeild over Viney? Just about every recruiter In the country would say yes.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

That's great in theory, but in reality we have given Viney a contract that spans the next 3 years...

The draft determines where a player plays and if Viney suffered an injury that precluded him from playing football again do you think that Melbourne would pick him up as a first round pick just because Sheedy put a bid on him? I'm sure that there are get out clauses as this is purely a letter of intent as far as I'm aware.

[Striker475 696]

I'd take Whitfield over Viney, absolutely.

Will GW$ take the risk if we finish that low? I doubt it.

The problem for me comes in if GW$ were to do a similar trade with the GC as 2011 for the #1 compo, thus ending up with picks 1 and 2. That then becomes problematic as they could still take Whitfield and bid for Viney with pick 2...