Not sure if this needed it's own thread but I wanted to bring it up in isolation as I am interested in the number of poster's on this forum who, like me, believe that we have deplorable

kicking skills and that it's the major reason why we find it so hard to compete.

I honestly believe that we are the third worst team at disposing of the ball by foot. GWS and GC beat us to the title.

Neeld has stressed the importance of improving our contested ball winning ability, but surely he is beginning to see an issue with our ability to keep possession of the ball?

I for one think our contested ball winning ability is better than our disposal efficiency/ability to keep possession of the ball. What do others think?

I see so many average users of the ball. Across the entire list. It's sickening!

Hawthorn have a perfect mix of contested ball winners and players with elite kicking skills. Players like Hodge, Lewis, Osborne, Birchall, Guerra, Stratton, Suckling.... They all have contested ball winning ability and

have kicking skills! Hawthorn's recruiting manager deliberately picked left footed players based on the research that showed left footer's posses a better kicking efficiency. That is another debate in itself but does that comes back to recruiting again....

What's the recurring theme here?

I am praying for a high class recruiter to come to us this year and for the 2012 draft to be the draft that shoots the MFC back to where it is meant to be.

It is multifactorial.

Recruiting?

Development?

Fitness?

Game plan?

Teamwork?

Skills?

If a player is really fit so he is not gasping his last breath by the time that he is about to dispose of the ball he will deliver the ball better.

If he knows that a teammate will shepherd for him he will have time to deliver the ball better.

If he knows that teammates will run, spread and give him multiple options, he will deliver the ball better, and usually sooner.

If he knows the game plan, and he knows that the players down field and behind him know the game plan, he will deliver the ball better.

It is going to take time.

Edited April 10, 201213 yr by monoccular

What's the recurring theme here?

Another spurious thread?

No shepherding from team mates, no team mates willing to spread or run in to space to give person in posession a clear option or person in possession not disposing of the ball in a timely manner, person in possession second guessing which option to take and holding on to the ball too long and pressure from behind forcing a shank.. take your pick.

No shepherding from team mates, no team mates willing to spread or run in to space to give person in posession a clear option or person in possession not disposing of the ball in a timely manner, person in possession second guessing which option to take and holding on to the ball too long and pressure from behind forcing a shank.. take your pick.

This. We don't play as a team which makes all our possessions under pressure. We haven't played like a team for a long time. There are so many things going wrong at the moment I don't even know where to start.

We've seen in the games where the bailey plan worked, great skills all round.. They all know how to kick, they wouldn't be playing at this level otherwise. It's the inconsistency of effort and not being able or unwilling to adhere to a game plan.

Another spurious thread?

I don't know if that was the correct word to use to describe this thread?

I don't think it was either- I'm pretty sure the woeful kicking is there for all to see.

It is multifactorial.

Recruiting?

Development?

Fitness?

Game plan?

Teamwork?

Skills?

If a player is really fit so he is not gasping his last breath by the time that he is about to dispose of the ball he will deliver the ball better.

If he knows that a teammate will shepherd for him he will have time to deliver the ball better.

If he knows that teammates will run, spread and give him multiple options, he will deliver the ball better, and usually sooner.

If he knows the game plan, and he knows that the players down field and behind him know the game plan, he will deliver the ball better.

It is going to take time.

No shepherding from team mates, no team mates willing to spread or run in to space to give person in posession a clear option or person in possession not disposing of the ball in a timely manner, person in possession second guessing which option to take and holding on to the ball too long and pressure from behind forcing a shank.. take your pick.

How about kicking under no pressure whatsoever. How many times do we either miss a target completely or make it extremely hard for our team mate by not kicking to advantage?

Our inability to hit a target under no pressure is astonishing! I'm not talking about other factors that come into play. Obviously they don't help. But our kicking under pressure is absolute rubbish.

The first kick we took from the middle in the first Q against the Bears for the 2012 season was woeful. Yes it is another serious problem the coaches must address.

Add it to the pile....What was actually taught between 2008-11...

This really concerns me..It costs me about $100 to go to the MCG for the day usually, i see my dad so it is cool...But if we are served rubbish people are not going to keep coming.

The MFC is an AFL club & right now we don't deserve that title.

We are slow to take our kick thus shutting down any quick option that might be there

We do not run and spread thus giving few options for the kicker

We do not kick to space we kick to the player (often next to an opposition player)

We can't hit targets - so we should try more to kick to space in any case

We're all doomed

How about kicking under no pressure whatsoever. How many times do we either miss a target completely or make it extremely hard for our team mate by not kicking to advantage?

Our inability to hit a target under no pressure is astonishing! I'm not talking about other factors that come into play. Obviously they don't help. But our kicking under pressure is absolute rubbish.

Very much this. So many "unforced errors" every week. We gift a general advantage to our opponents in most games from week to week in this area, even when we get clear and aren't being directly pressured in a physical sense. There were at least 5 clangers/unforced errors that i witnessed just in the 1st quarter on Saturday, where players were under no immediate physical pressure. Albeit they were no doubt under a little perceived pressure. But you would think some perceived pressure would be standard fair in most games other than maybe against GWS and GCS. Obviously more intense against the top 5 or 6, hence you would expect the disposal efficiency/option decision making skills to drop etc. No one is perfect under any sort of intense pressure...and not expecting them to be.

Can't help but admire yesterday's match. If any player ever needed an eye opener/leg up... i reckon i would just keep watching yesterday over and over and over....until things start to sink in lol. I realise we're a long way behind and lacking anywhere near the skill level/talent & experience in these 2 teams atm but still....why not aim high.

Edited April 10, 201213 yr by Rusty Nails

I honestly believe that we are the third worst team at disposing of the ball by foot. GWS and GC beat us to the title.

Check out Richmond this week, they might win the game but they give us a good run for our money on kicking skills. Edwards would be up there with Bartram for the worst kick in the comp and Rance is not far behind.

Is it possible Neeld isn't too concerned about the results at this stage? Maybe one thing at a time is the agenda, contested footy first, that would explain why we're already way better in this area than last year and why we are so poor everywhere else. Neeld will want to be the best in each discipline and may not move on till the players have learn t the current one backwards. Just a suggestion.

I would say that the poorest disposing team in the league 2-3 years ago was West Coast. Poor disposal at times is more about decision making, confidence and team mates not providing suitable options. I believe we have some poor disposers but it is hard to judge at present when the other factors I mentioned are such an issue.

I firmly believe it's a lack of options or willingness to create options that is more the problem. Our disposal by foot is made to look ten times worse than it is because of this. Watching the West Coast game, a neutral sitting next to me was bewildered at the number of players at a basic stand-still. This was in the second quarter.

Winning contested ball is all well and good but the players need to start working alot harder for each other once we have it. Watching the Hawks and Cats last night for instance, chalk and cheese.

We do have a few shankers, but almost every club carries those.

Is it possible Neeld isn't too concerned about the results at this stage? Maybe one thing at a time is the agenda, contested footy first, that would explain why we're already way better in this area than last year and why we are so poor everywhere else. Neeld will want to be the best in each discipline and may not move on till the players have learn t the current one backwards. Just a suggestion.

Sweet.

Season 1: Contested possession

Season 2: Tackling

Season 3: Disposal efficiency

Season 4: RUNNING!

Season 5: Beat someone other than GCS and GWS

Seaosn 6: Top half finish

Season 7: Top 8

Season 8: Top 4

Season 9: 13th flag

2020 here we come!

Sweet. Season 1: Contested possession Season 2: Tackling Season 3: Disposal efficiency Season 4: RUNNING! Season 5: Beat someone other than GCS and GWS Seaosn 6: Top half finish Season 7: Top 8 Season 8: Top 4 Season 9: 13th flag 2020 here we come!

5 Years before we can Beat GC $un$ or GW$ ???

i just can't cope with that...that's 100+ games of crud!!!!

HaHaHa!! Pethadiene here we come....

Sweet.

Season 1: Contested possession

Season 2: Tackling

Season 3: Disposal efficiency

Season 4: RUNNING!

Season 5: Beat someone other than GCS and GWS

Seaosn 6: Top half finish

Season 7: Top 8

Season 8: Top 4

Season 9: 13th flag

2020 here we come!

Funny I read Mitch Clark's interview and he says how he and the boys are excited about Neelds plans, excited??? and that they just need some time, has me thinking 2012 aint necessarily about winning games!

Just read "Schools in" on the AFL site, Neeld seems pretty relaxed to me.

Edited April 10, 201213 yr by 1 red eye 1 blue eye

is the title of this thread an oxymoron?

This. We don't play as a team which makes all our possessions under pressure. We haven't played like a team for a long time. There are so many things going wrong at the moment I don't even know where to start.

We've seen in the games where the bailey plan worked, great skills all round.. They all know how to kick, they wouldn't be playing at this level otherwise. It's the inconsistency of effort and not being able or unwilling to adhere to a game plan.

It's a bit of the old "chicken or egg" situation. The easiest place to start is at the beginning. What is the beginning though? I would think being able to hit targets when not under pressure is pretty close to the top. However, if we haven't got the ball, it doesn't matter how good our foot skills are, enter improve contested possesion.

At AFL level, I would've thought that at the very least, that our disposal is better than what it is. These players have been playing state-level junior footy, which you would expect demands a certain level of getting the basics right. It does make you wonder what the draft combine actually highlights, and which results we actually see as priorities. Maybe we need to do the "Moneyball" thing and just draft players that excel in kicking efficiency and teamwork during games rather than who interviews the best.

is the title of this thread an oxymoron?

Yes, now, but looking forward to it morphing into a pleonasm.

Yes, now, but looking forward to it morphing into a pleonasm.

"This was the most unkindest cut of all." —William Shakespeare, Julius Caesar.

If you go to training like I do reguarly, you wll find more staff than nearly players there. We have at least 9 coaches whom are there to develop these players. They are to implement game plan, develop skills including handballing & kicking, and furthermore we have increased drammatically our fitness staff as well.

Therefore the resources are there- hopefully they will be good enough to take this club further. The issue is the playing list- and I query it heavily.

If you go to training like I do reguarly, you wll find more staff than nearly players there. We have at least 9 coaches whom are there to develop these players. They are to implement game plan, develop skills including handballing & kicking, and furthermore we have increased drammatically our fitness staff as well.

Therefore the resources are there- hopefully they will be good enough to take this club further. The issue is the playing list- and I query it heavily.

Well said. The list we have got is unbalanced in so many areas. So it will be a fascinating journey to see how Misson can work this throgh.

The most fundamental and basic skill you learn when you first pick a football up is how to kick. It's the very first thing a kid learns to do.

How can we have so many sub standard kickers playing elite level football? Is it that hard to recruit them? Is it really?

Bartram, Bail, Gysberts, Fitzy, Spencer, Moloney, Martin, Blease, Petterd, Morton, Rivers, Garland and even Frawley.

I see far too many missed targets under no pressure.