There are an amazingly large amount of champions that didn't start playing good football until they were 25 or so .

Instant success is a bit like instant coffee-hardly worth the wait.

Now I am not saying 25, but GAblett Jnr was regarded by many as overrated for several years.

Tom Hawkins, also a product of APS (like the much maligned Watts and a couple of years ahead of him) really only came of age last GF.

But for all that, we have had a pretty dismal record of developing highly rated young players, and haven't had a genuine star for many years.

People keep saying that our recruiting has been poor. Most of our early picks over the last few years keep getting injured and missing games, therefor not having a chance to develop and get some game time and confidence under their belt. Sure blease has been dissapointing, but he's basically a first year player. Strauss, Gys, tappy, Morton, jetta, gawn, grimes and probably some others have all been greatly effected by injuries during their first few years. If these guys all had 3 or so full pre seasons and 50 games under their belt like they should be now, they would all be starting 22 players

What infact were the off field personal issues that were such a risk? Since being recruited he has been as quiet as $cully's knee injury.

rumours started by WC so the easterners wouldn't pick him...............oldest trick in the book

rumours started by WC so the easterners wouldn't pick him...............oldest trick in the book

Wouldn't suprise me at all. Wet Coke know a player, regardless of their club off field cultures.

I posted this in another thread.

Relevant here .

"Champions aren't made in the gyms. Champions are made from something deep inside them- a desire, a dream, a vision."- Muhammad Ali

Our problem isn't development , it's recruiting.

No, its the clubs culture. The recruiters understand the types the club wants & doesn't. (The Fit)

Now I am not saying 25, but GAblett Jnr was regarded by many as overrated for several years.

Tom Hawkins, also a product of APS (like the much maligned Watts and a couple of years ahead of him) really only came of age last GF.

But for all that, we have had a pretty dismal record of developing highly rated young players, and haven't had a genuine star for many years.

Only by those who can't tell.

Still unproven yet, one hot day doesn't make a Summer.

Soft cosy freindly accepting culture.

You'll probably be saying the same thing in five years time, I hear this so often "just give it time, we have the kids it's just a matter of getting games in to them" well it's not, what we have isn't good enough.

I didn't say that. What I might say in 5 years is speculative.

rumours started by WC so the easterners wouldn't pick him...............oldest trick in the book

DC your usually around the mark but off here, Darling whilst having some off field issues actually dropped off considerably at WAFL level. He was outstanding at junior level and it all came very easily for him. He looked really good when I first saw him play for West Perth but dropped off after a few games and looked lazy, which contributed IMO to him dropping down in recruters eyes.

Word is when he first rocked up a West Coast he was a bit of a big head and thought it was all just going to happen. By all accounts Woosha and some senior players gave him a rocket and from there he never looked back. Would Bailey have done that and did we have any senior players to do it IMO if there is a boys club at Melbourne he would have fallen right into it and may not have had the impact he has at at Meth Coast and I know after witnessing what I did yesterday he certainly would not have got the delivery he was getting from their midfield

PSD, WC had a serious behind the scenes play going on there, he may well have needed a rocket as you say when he got there, however they used every trick in the book plus some. I wouldn't be surprised if he was told not play out games (a la $ last year!), he had 'mates' turn up when recruiters were there to interview him with slabs of beer on the shoulder, talking about how good last nights party was etc. etc. every eastern recruiter was turned off him - and that was prior to him being belted while out

DC your usually around the mark but off here, Darling whilst having some off field issues actually dropped off considerably at WAFL level. He was outstanding at junior level and it all came very easily for him. He looked really good when I first saw him play for West Perth but dropped off after a few games and looked lazy, which contributed IMO to him dropping down in recruters eyes.

Word is when he first rocked up a West Coast he was a bit of a big head and thought it was all just going to happen. By all accounts Woosha and some senior players gave him a rocket and from there he never looked back. Would Bailey have done that and did we have any senior players to do it IMO if there is a boys club at Melbourne he would have fallen right into it and may not have had the impact he has at at Meth Coast and I know after witnessing what I did yesterday he certainly would not have got the delivery he was getting from their midfield

it was just that the word getting back here was that he had been in some trouble (true I believe) but more than that that he was trouble with a capital T, up himself, high risk, out of control etc. It seemed enough coupled with the potential 'go-home' factor to scare off a lot of melbourne clubs

it was just that the word getting back here was that he had been in some trouble (true I believe) but more than that that he was trouble with a capital T, up himself, high risk, out of control etc. It seemed enough coupled with the potential 'go-home' factor to scare off a lot of melbourne clubs

It worked.

One thing that always frustrates me with people on here is how much they underrate the value of a good "team". By that I mean, we (myself included) look too often at individual performances, and for example underrate how well the good teams work together. Furthermore, Melbourne has a poor culture and for whatever reason if Player A goes to Melbourne, they are less likely to turn out as good if they otherwise go to a team like Geelong with a strong culture.

There is too much focus on stars and individuals, we need to develop a strong team and a strong culture.

One thing that always frustrates me with people on here is how much they underrate the value of a good "team". By that I mean, we (myself included) look too often at individual performances, and for example underrate how well the good teams work together. Furthermore, Melbourne has a poor culture and for whatever reason if Player A goes to Melbourne, they are less likely to turn out as good if they otherwise go to a team like Geelong with a strong culture.

There is too much focus on stars and individuals, we need to develop a strong team and a strong culture.

Yes and that can only be done with the right players. A vicious cycle.

Yes and that can only be done with the right players. A vicious cycle.

Coaches too, I think Mark Thompson had a lot to do with developing the culture down at Geelong.

Coaches too, I think Mark Thompson had a lot to do with developing the culture down at Geelong.

Sure. With Brian Cook and Costa

The

I agree it has to do with both. But I think our player development and culture are the major issues.

Recruiting-

At this point it looks as though picking up Cook was a major blunder. Other then that I can't seen any glaring mistakes. How could anyone have foreseen the Scully situation and Martin was clearly ranked third by all recruiters in that draft anyway. As for Watts, again he was rated as the number one in his draft by most of the so called experts and there was no controversy at the time we drafted him. I firmly believe his career will ultimately surpass Naitanui

Development-

I look at our list and think back to when a lot of these players came on the scene showing plenty and have gone backwards.

Gysberts- The perfect example came out in his first four or five games looked like a star, but has struggled with injury and form ever since.

Trengove- Has pretty much stayed at the same level sine arriving. Luckily this a pretty good level.

Tapscott- Looked great early last year. Then fell away as the year progressed. Remains to be seen how he comes back this year.

Howe- Had everyone excited throughout last season. Looks to have fallen away this year rather than going to a new level.

Garland- I'm not going to mark him too harshly. But his game doesn't seem to have improved over the past 2 years.

Blease- Was looking good at the end of last year. Now is battling to make the team and doesn't seem to have a position.

Morton- The whole of the AFL thought we had picked up a gun when drafted. Played reasonably early, but his form has slipped away year by year.

Watts- Again everything I read leading up to the draft had him number one. Mismanaged on his debut. Has showed plenty at times, but not consistently. Should be making his mark on games consistently by now.

Bennell- Has had some reasonable games early. Will be lucky to be around next year. Has not progressed at all since being at the club.

McKenzie- Showed plenty of energy early and was impacting games. Skills are still poor and doesn't seem to have expanded his capabilities at all.

I don't really like to single players out but I want to illustrate by thoughts that very few if any MFC players have improved over the past 3 - 4 years. I think this must be a result of poor coaching. But I also think the more senior players we have are poor role models and have failed to set the necessary standard.

I dont agree with your argument. What you're forgetting is that it takes time (5-10 games) for the opposition to figure out a players strengths and weakness through a scouting report and then reduce their effect during games. For this reason, many players impress early only to be found out as a one-trick pony.

it was just that the word getting back here was that he had been in some trouble (true I believe) but more than that that he was trouble with a capital T, up himself, high risk, out of control etc. It seemed enough coupled with the potential 'go-home' factor to scare off a lot of melbourne clubs

My baby sister went to Sacred Heart with him and in all honesty he was just a teenager. Me personally I like a bit of scallywag in lads. I don't get to see enough TAC footage to compare him with others but I was very surprised he fell so far in the pecking, I knew his West Perth form would have an affect but did not expect him to fall so much

One thing that always frustrates me with people on here is how much they underrate the value of a good "team". By that I mean, we (myself included) look too often at individual performances, and for example underrate how well the good teams work together ... for whatever reason if Player A goes to Melbourne, they are less likely to turn out as good if they otherwise go to a team like Geelong with a strong culture.

Agreed. Look at Suns today for a decent example of the importance of team and development over draft picks. They have more top draft picks than you can poke a stick at, but were still pretty woeful today - in spite of Ablett's efforts leading the way.

Shaved head beard Ink all over the arms... These things have been frowned upon at Melbourne generally, for decades. getting a bit better lately, but we still look for the Choir boys way too much.

We need to go after more hard headed types, like these untamed Stallions of the AFL...

Stop going after the mortonesque, The Bennell types.

Absolute unadulterated rubbish.

All of it.

Absolute unadulterated rubbish.

All of it.

Even the Bennell bit ?

Yes.

You've lost me then.

Who exactly has been saying our recruiters have been first class. I dont think anyone I can recall has been sayin that.

And any tall player is a "project". They dont plug in a play. Darling is 191cm and plays a flank as a 4th tall along side Cox, Lynch and Kennedy. And given there were personal off field issues with Darling. He did come with a level of risk.

But as a self promoting recruiter I bet you know all that and more.

I do.

Coaches too, I think Mark Thompson had a lot to do with developing the culture down at Geelong.

A few weeks ago they had the Scott brothers on AFL360 (I think), and they were talking about their experiences at Brisbane during their flags years with regards to how the players all knew what to do and all lead the way with regards to preparation and setting the standards without too much input from the coach. They then went on to say that it certainly wasn't that way during their spoon years (despite the playing list not actually changing that much) and that it was all basically thanks to Leigh forcing the standards on them initially that lead to them self-enforcing them later.

This is what gives me hope that it won't always be this way. If Neeld and his support army are as strong and thorough as they appear, this playing group under the Jacks should eventually start taking responsibility and once that happens it will be a snowballing effect. It won't happen overnight of course, but let's not forget that Brisbane, Collingwood and Geelong were all basket cases before they became powerhouses.

It has to be development.

All you have to do is look at the drafts that we took high pick players in such as Bennell, Bate, Bell, Dunn, and you can see that some good players taken at similar positions have developed well, while those that have come to Melb havent...

Although perhaps Brock McClean suggests that our high picks just havent been that good as well...