The entire process seems an entire " balls up". Who knows what really happened?

So if "who knows what really happened" then how can you leap to the statement of the process being a balls up.

So if "who knows what really happened" then how can you leap to the statement of the process being a balls up.

true Nutbean! Very true and point taken. By the "whole process" I'm refering to every leadership decision decision including the sacking of Bailey. (Neeld Coach, GRimes/Trenners Capt)..All IMO only. Perhaps if I was contrary or IN on what actually happens my views would change. For sure! at the end of the day our impressions are formed by what we see and hear.

would love Trengove to be BOG this weekend and Grimesy to gather 200 Supercoach points. First Monday morning post Monday Thaipantsman was wrong Big Time.

Both guys are 3-5 years away from Captaincy material. IMO

But what the hell!! Both great guys and both can play.

The entire process seems an entire " balls up". Who knows what really happened? Would you be as annoyed if Melbourne were 4 and 4 now? To be annoyed seems to be saying you're not happy with the current coach? If you aren't happy then that's pretty normal emotion. zip and 8 with and average losing margin of 57 points and playing a style of football without much passion, system or leadership.

As Neeld said "can turn quickly" . This comment I will hold onto because it's so true. Melbourne can't be that bad. Perhaps Neeld DOES have something up his sleeve?

I have followed Dees since 66 and defended our team with gusto in most forums, school, workplace and among friends. This forum is different. Much different. In this forum one can't open one's heart and convey exactly what we feel without the risk of suffering online bullying by Hardliners who should know better. To suggest Neeld should not be the coach is an opinion and there huge arguments supporting both sides. This forum will only hear one side. this is part of the purpose of this forum or is it simply to defend MFC position come hell or high water ie refer to any Journo as a hasbeen etc if they don't tow the demonland line ie Caro, Sheehan, King, Roos, Thomas, Whover else.

Those of us that challenge the 'Neeld was a mistake' idea is because he hasn't been in charge very long, he has plenty to deal with, it would be foolhardy to make a change right now, the players are a major concern, and there is no bloody point because he is the coach and it is all moot.

If you feel personally attacked - this forum doesn't condone that and you should PM a moderator about the specific posters.

We all understand the frustration but we have all 'drawn the conclusion we have appointed MN now and have to move on and support him.'

The past few days I have drawn the conclusion we have appointed MN now and have to move on and support him.

Time will tell.

For me for what its worth I feel the appointment was rushed however we must get behind the Guy. I don't hate him.

Well there you go. We came to this realisation a long time ago.

Could have saved yourself some heartache and headaches.

Maybe this explains the disconnect.

A few in this forum need to rid the massive CHIP's on shoulders and not simply label Journo's as [censored] simply because they don't agree with populist view in Demonland and then jump up in and laud another Journo when he writes a positive article about Melbourne. In other words the Journo is only any good if compliments whatever the MFC is doing.

Not short of Bullies in this forum along with long term Demonlanders prepared to get nasty with insults if we don't tow the line and agree with the that particular persons view.

Again, point out the bullies to a PM and they will get them sorted.

I hope you are not lumping in the many credible posters who have actual concerns with some articles. To say that there we only applaud complimentary articles is a bit rich, if Caroline Wilson wrote a paperback about '186' about 90% of Demonland posters would buy it.

Blues are well down on best form right now. On the eve of the match I have recollections of Dees V Blues post Tsunami when Dees Banded together for Troy Broadbridge. Lets hope for a repleat of that outcome because if the group truly does support Neeld as they say in the media then should go to the wire! Go Dees!

That was the Bombers in 2005.

Garry Lyon talked a little about the recruitment of Mark Neeld on the footy show tonight. during it he said that he was not reccomended to get neeld by malthouse.

I'd rather go to jail than watch TFS, but he said that did he? - that he never talked to Mick Malthouse during MFC's coach hiring process - and then he hired Mick's right hand man. OK.

Concentrate on the words...

Thank god we haven't got Ross Lyon, Freo are woeful to watch, even worse than the saints ever were.

We have the right man for football now. 2012 is sucking but inr eality no worse than the last 3 years.

As for young captains, I think its a good move long term, its harder to be a dashing on field captain when your being smashed. If we were winning, both would look much better, and looking at the performances of our older players, there is no one who could put their hand up as doing it better.

Your joking dk72.

At least in previous years we won games and at times played wonderful football. The club was united, and everyone was optimistic.

Now, you must look very hard to find positives.

Back to G.Lyon

On tripleM, last night, he admitted he was wrong to believe that sheedy was 'done' after his efc sacking in 2007. I know hindsight is a wonderful thing, but Sheedy was our biggest mistake. And sacking captain Mac.

I think g.Lyon regrets his decision to get involved, and now is trying to maintain a dignified stance, although big cracks are starting to emerge in his demeanor. He gives me the impression that he has already conceded defeat. IMO.

Carlton is a big game for us, I believe the clubs future direction hinges on this game. Carlton's team on paper is no better than ours. A disgraceful loss will almost bury neeld, while a win would turn the tide for our season and put the heat on ratten.

Its a big big game this Sunday, and I think Carlton are ripe for a plucking.

Carn the demons.

Carlton is a big game for us, I believe the clubs future direction hinges on this game. Carlton's team on paper is no better than ours. A disgraceful loss will almost bury neeld, while a win would turn the tide for our season and put the heat on ratten.

Hype-hype-hype ...hyperbole.

At least in previous years we won games and at times played wonderful football. The club was united, and everyone was optimistic.

... and they all lived happily ever after. Even Dean. The End.

Your joking dk72.

At least in previous years we won games and at times played wonderful football. The club was united, and everyone was optimistic.

Now, you must look very hard to find positives.

Back to G.Lyon

On tripleM, last night, he admitted he was wrong to believe that sheedy was 'done' after his efc sacking in 2007. I know hindsight is a wonderful thing, but Sheedy was our biggest mistake. And sacking captain Mac.

I think g.Lyon regrets his decision to get involved, and now is trying to maintain a dignified stance, although big cracks are starting to emerge in his demeanor. He gives me the impression that he has already conceded defeat. IMO.

Carlton is a big game for us, I believe the clubs future direction hinges on this game. Carlton's team on paper is no better than ours. A disgraceful loss will almost bury neeld, while a win would turn the tide for our season and put the heat on ratten.

Its a big big game this Sunday, and I think Carlton are ripe for a plucking.

Carn the demons.

G Lyon should either get fully involved at the club or shut up completely

Power without accounatability is very damaging even if it perceived power

RangeRover, Please don't comment on my posts, I want nothing to do with you.

I hope your money keeps your warm at night.

Please skip my posts. you make me sick.

At least in previous years we won games and at times played wonderful football. The club was united, and everyone was optimistic.

Very united last year with the admin and football department loving each other and the players united behind Schwab and Connelly. The place was falling apart and has yet to fully recover.

Change was needed and only time will tell if it was the right change.

well said thaipantsman

So, you'd prefer to fiddle while Rome burns?

truth is there is no one answer, strike whilst the iron is hot or protracted drawn-out process

and at the end of the day it will always be a risk (as has been shown many times) with either type of process

Its not him, the olds boys fiddle while Rome burns.

Thank god we haven't got Ross Lyon, Freo are woeful to watch, even worse than the saints ever were.

Winning football is beautiful football. Losing football is ugly football and the football we playing is at a level below ugly that cannot be described by words.

I don't care about missing Lyon. He would have sharpened us up a lot quicker than Neeld but at the end of the day if he couldn't get it done at the the saints I'm not sure he'd have much luck here, especially as we still needed a coach who could develop players.

To be honest I think the pool of coaching prospects that included Neeld, McCartney, Sanderson, Watters and even Scott Burns was exceptionally strong. What I'm worried about is that we entered into a fantasy land and tried to pick the best fit and not the best coach. Ie. we recruited for a need with the number 1 draft pick instead of going best available. Just like how we went for Bailey when we felt we need to get a development coach now we've gone for Neeld because his tough defensive attitude was what we needed. But that is completely neglecting all the other aspects of coaching. I don't take much interest in psychological profiles but I wonder why we wouldn't do this step as ever other club did. Why not get as much info as possible? I also feel our selection panel was short on football knowledge, so really in a way when Garry said Neeld was the man the rest didn't challenge him.

All this said I still have a lot of confidence in Neeld, but I'm disappointed to see Melbourne again not doing this as professionally or as rigorously as our competition.

Concentrate on the words...

Garry Lyon talked a little about the recruitment of Mark Neeld on the footy show tonight. during it he said that he was not reccomended to get neeld by mick malthouse.

when pushed on the matter, he said he never talked to him during that process.

Carlton is a big game for us, I believe the clubs future direction hinges on this game. Carlton's team on paper is no better than ours. A disgraceful loss will almost bury neeld, while a win would turn the tide for our season and put the heat on ratten.

Its a big big game this Sunday, and I think Carlton are ripe for a plucking.

Carn the demons.

Carltons list no better than ours??

which of our players are better than

Judd

Murphy

Gibbs

Scotland

Robinson

Bower

Waite

Fight for 2014 flag?

Date: June 25 2011

Garry Lyon

In a race up the ladder, the Demons may hold an edge over the Tigers.

WHILE today's game between Richmond and Melbourne, rightfully, assumes massive importance in the context of this season's race to the finals, the bigger, more important question that needs to be debated is which of these two promising, on the rise outfits is closest to genuinely challenging for that elusive premiership.

For the Tigers, September action has been a largely foreign concept. Two finals campaigns in 28 years has been an indictment on a proud football club that had delivered five premierships to their army of supporters in a glorious 14-year stretch between 1967 and 1980.

The Demons have not been much better. Granted, they have been reasonably successful in finding their way to the serious end of the year, having participated in 12 finals series in the past 24 years, including two grand finals, but their premiership drought extends to 1964. For a team that celebrated six premierships in 10 years under Norm Smith, from 1955 to 1964, coming up 50 years since their last flag is enormously disappointing.

So it is little wonder that Richmond versus Melbourne on a Saturday afternoon at the MCG, with each team well placed to once again become a genuine contender, has generated such enormous interest and expectation.

But while finals are very much in the frame for both teams, a legitimate tilt at a premiership would still appear to be a couple of years off. So, using 2014 as the year where the lists of these two young teams are best placed to make the move from ''potential'' to ''challenger'', who is ahead in the race right now?

DEFENCE

The Demons' back six, on what we have seen, appears a little stronger. James Frawley has an All-Australian to his name, Jared Rivers has recaptured his NAB Rising Star form, Jack Grimes is a potential club captain and Luke Tapscott shapes as a 150-200-game player.

For Richmond, Dylan Grimes took some giant steps forward before his hamstring injury, Alex Rance has resurrected his career and Reece Conca is every bit as promising as Tapscott. Chris Newman is a beauty, but will be 32 by then. Bachar Houli can be expected to continue to improve.

Verdict: Melbourne, just.

MIDFIELD

This is the area where both clubs are beautifully placed. Richmond's Brett Deledio (pick 1), Trent Cotchin (pick 3) and Dustin Martin (pick 3) form the nucleus of the most potentially devastating midfield in the competition. The flexibility and versatility of all three players is something to behold, with each of them capable of hitting the scoreboard and Deledio having proved he can be an elite rebounding defender.

Shaun Grigg is a prolific ball winner, Nathan Foley a best-and-fairest winner, and Robin Nahas, Daniel Jackson and Matt White provide impressive depth.

Demons Tom Scully (pick 1) and Jack Trengove (pick 2) have left no one in any doubt they will be in the elite bracket of midfielders within 12 months. Jordie McKenzie is rated enormously highly at Melbourne, Jordan Gysberts continues to find the football and there are big expectations for young Sam Blease.

Brent Moloney and Colin Sylvia will both be pushing 30 and their best footy may be behind them but, if their bodies stand up, they will continue to be important contributors. Jack Viney, the father-son selection courtesy of former great Todd, gives every indication he will be an outstanding replacement for both, as a ferocious, inside competitor.

Verdict: Richmond, just.

RUCKS

Max Gawn is being groomed to take the role from Mark Jamar at Melbourne and, in a couple of years, should be the legitimate No. 1 man. Jamar provides plenty as a ''power forward'' and, given the rate of development of Stefan Martin, he could be anything.

I love the heart and work ethic of big Tiger Andrew Browne and Tyrone Vickery may be the most improved player in the competition. Vickery, however, may be more ''forward'' than ruck.

Verdict: Melbourne.

FORWARDS

Tiger Jack Riewoldt is the standout in both teams. For Melbourne, Jack Watts, Liam Jurrah and Jamar look capable on paper, but as yet haven't got the score on the board, while there is plenty to like about Jeremy Howe and Lucas Cook.

A genuine, small crumbing forward is a priority in the coming drafts. If Vickery spends more time forward then Richmond is well served in the key posts.

Ben Griffiths and Jayden Post have shown glimpses, and certainly have the right frames and athleticism and there is genuine hope that in a couple of years they will settle in key positions, whether back or forward.

King provides defensive pressure and ''grunt'' in the small forward role, so important in the modern game.

Verdict: Richmond.

DEPTH/TRADEABILITY

Melbourne will monitor closely the performance of Aaron Davey, Nathan Jones, Lynden Dunn, Ricky Petterd, Addam Maric, Matthew Warnock, Matthew Bate, Jack Fitzpatrick, Neville Jetta, Rohan Bail and Clint Bartram.

Richmond has David Astbury, Daniel Connors, David Goudis, Luke McGuane, Mitch Farmer, Ben Nason, Mitch Morton, Jeromey Webberley, Tom Hislop and Matt Dea.

Verdict: Melbourne.

CONCLUSION

The unknown, of course, is how well the teams perform at the three national drafts before the 2014 season begins, once again underscoring the enormous importance that recruiters assume within a club structure.

Granted, I may be more familiar with the Melbourne list, but having spent considerable time on this exercise I believe that the Demons are ahead in the race for that next elusive premiership.

Richmond's three elite midfielders - Cotchin, Martin and Deledio - along with Riewoldt, its Coleman Medal full-forward, puts it ahead in the ''elite'' stakes, but the Melbourne depth, going forward, gets them the points.

With 14 first-round picks at Melbourne, as opposed to six at Richmond, it suggests the potential for significant improvement is in favour of the Demons, although picks don't necessarily translate to results.

There may also be more currency in the Melbourne list at the draft table if the Demons decide to get aggressive in coming years, with Greater Western Sydney looking to build its list.

The good news is that both clubs have once again become relevant in the competition, and while it may be a long shot, another Saturday meeting between these two teams on a sunny afternoon at the MCG on the final weekend of the 2014 season would be a dream come true for their long-suffering, but faithful supporters.

I don't care about missing Lyon. He would have sharpened us up a lot quicker than Neeld but at the end of the day if he couldn't get it

All this said I still have a lot of confidence in Neeld, but I'm disappointed to see Melbourne again not doing this as professionally or as rigorously as our competition.

With the mindset half the posters have here on 'land, it wouldn't matter. If the club had done psychological profiling, they would have been accused of being fancy-pants and fiddling about while the best candidates get snapped up by the other clubs.

The club did what they thought best at the time. Deal with it.

All this second guessing is achieving nothing.

Fight for 2014 flag?

Date: June 25 2011

Garry Lyon

In a race up the ladder, the Demons may hold an edge over the Tigers.

etc, etc, etc

I guess you've really proved something here.

But who the f knows what?

My apologies.

I guess you've really proved something here.

But who the f knows what?

I didn't provide any opinion in that post, Ted Fidge, just thought it interesting to read an article by the man in question from 12 months ago. I think it simply highlights how quickly things can change.

which of our players are better than

Judd

Murphy

Gibbs

Scotland

Robinson

Bower

Waite

You mean the Paul Bower that was almost delisted last year, but retained his spot ahead of Setanta because he was younger ? And the Paul Bower that was just dropped this week for the Melbourne game ?

Thank heavens Lyon is not here. One of the kids drafted by Freo can't wait for the 2 years to be up, and says every other draftee feels the same way (bar one). He talks to his father twice a week and has consistently said that all (bar one) of the kids under 20 can't stand Lyon - he lies to them and they have no trust or faith in him at all.

Lyon has played one new draftee this year - oddly enough a 4th rounder whose father is one of his best mates.

The kid has also told his dad that his game is not being developed and is afraid that he is going backwards. Nevertheless one Victorian club (not us) has committed to taking him at the end of 2013.

We should be looking at their kids.

Gee that doesn't sound like rumour at all....