I have said this before but a given our midfield woes I think this needs to be looked at more closely. At this stage Nathan Jones is perhaps our most courageous and hard at it player and always gives a 100%. But in his main role around clearances ands stoppages he is a liability and not helped because he gets the ball more than most others.Too slow to make a decision and his first instinct usually is to protect the ball. Sticks it under his arms and try's to bulldoze out packs and usually goes to ground. The consequences are the ball gets locked up, fudges his disposal or gets caught. He's so slow in making up his mind that there is always easy pressure swooping in around him. Hence clean disposals by him to advantage are a rarity. He remind me so much of Gary Ablett in the clinches but the difference is that Gary raises his head when he gets the ball and looks for an option as first instinct.

I love the guy but he's got to do more with the ball ad quicker. He's strangling our midfield at the moment.

Jones has to think twice because he hasn't got the freedom to act instinctively. He must follow a regimented game plan that is not natural to him.

Jones is great and I love his endeavour but who here thinks he is perfect? Anyone?

If you don't think he is perfect then why not consider the possibility that his method of ball collection, tucking under one arm, is flawed?

We are too slow and one of the reasons is because of our ball handling, why are people so surprised when an obvious flaw is raised?

Look at the way Judd moves, or any evasive mid fielder, they never take the ball to the body, the better the manoeuvrer, the more the ball is held in front. Instead of attacking people who raise this, have a close look at the best ball movers and you will become as frustrated as I at the obvious flaw that seems to be missed by all and sundry that afflicts our players, yes, including Jones

Jones is great but could be better. Have a look and see for yourselves next time you watch a game. There is quite a list of reasons why the ball should be gathered, and held away from the body. Look and see for yourselves

We are too slow and one of the reasons is because of our ball handling, why are people so surprised when an obvious flaw is raised?

I think the reason people have taken such offence to Jones being targetted is that he is the furherest thing from the problem you can get.

Before we worry about having 'pace' in our midfield we should worry about not being thrashed in contested possessions and clearances.

Jones is consistent in wins and losses, and professional and selfless in his approach to the game.

I hope we get to the point where Jones' place is a relevant topic of discussion because it will mean that our more talented, but less committed younger players have stepped up.

Jones has to think twice because he hasn't got the freedom to act instinctively. He must follow a regimented game plan that is not natural to him.

... which completely contradicts what Jones himself has said about how the new approach suits him to a T.

Jones is great and I love his endeavour but who here thinks he is perfect? Anyone?

If you don't think he is perfect then why not consider the possibility that his method of ball collection, tucking under one arm, is flawed?

We are too slow and one of the reasons is because of our ball handling, why are people so surprised when an obvious flaw is raised?

Look at the way Judd moves, or any evasive mid fielder, they never take the ball to the body, the better the manoeuvrer, the more the ball is held in front. Instead of attacking people who raise this, have a close look at the best ball movers and you will become as frustrated as I at the obvious flaw that seems to be missed by all and sundry that afflicts our players, yes, including Jones

Jones is great but could be better. Have a look and see for yourselves next time you watch a game. There is quite a list of reasons why the ball should be gathered, and held away from the body. Look and see for yourselves

Thats the point everyone misses. It's no coincidence we have the worst midfield when our best midfielder and others can't dish the ball out quickly enough after the crucial first hands on the ball. Speed and cleanliness of disposal is crucial The outside players are caught flatfooted or out of position because they are either waiting too long for the ball to get out or not sure where its likely to go. Consequently they look like idiots. I'm sure oposition players are well aware of these weaknessess and apply pressure accordingly.

Thats the point everyone misses. It's no coincidence we have the worst midfield when our best midfielder and others can't dish the ball out quickly enough after the crucial first hands on the ball. Speed and cleanliness of disposal is crucial The outside players are caught flatfooted or out of position because they are either waiting too long for the ball to get out or not sure where its likely to go. Consequently they look like idiots. I'm sure oposition players are well aware of these weaknessess and apply pressure accordingly.

Yes, it must be caused by the amount of time he is taking to wipe the dirt off the ball before passing it on. As was stated a few times in the responses, it is hard for Jones to dish the ball off quickly and effectively if he doesn't have the support of players running on to it... how often to we see him fighting for the ball only to find there is no one waiting in support.

Yes, it must be caused by the amount of time he is taking to wipe the dirt off the ball before passing it on. As was stated a few times in the responses, it is hard for Jones to dish the ball off quickly and effectively if he doesn't have the support of players running on to it... how often to we see him fighting for the ball only to find there is no one waiting in support.

If he can't find a close option then he should just kick it forward quickly. Thats what the the oposition do to us all the time if they got no close options. Clearance after clearance surrendered. And Geelong did this to perfection against Collingwood in the GF to pressure their defensive structure. Dont just muck about with it.

I think the reason people have taken such offence to Jones being targetted is that he is the furherest thing from the problem you can get.

Before we worry about having 'pace' in our midfield we should worry about not being thrashed in contested possessions and clearances.

Jones is consistent in wins and losses, and professional and selfless in his approach to the game.

I hope we get to the point where Jones' place is a relevant topic of discussion because it will mean that our more talented, but less committed younger players have stepped up.

Hi rpfc

I didn't take it as Jones himself being targeted, more that the way he performs one of his "tasks" is not as effective as it could be.

I think not so much Jones place, but his methods, are a relevant topic of discussion but it is not limited to him. Once you see how many of our players gather the ball to their body you will be surprised.

Ball to body in and of itself doesn't sound too bad but the evil starts even before the ball is picked up. Rather that pick it up in front, time is taken, and extra step or two, to wait till loose ball draws level with body, then there is increased disposal time opposed to ball could have been gotten and dished of in the time it takes for ball to meet body (look how many times Jones et al are tackled the instant they get the ball and look for why), focus of any tackle is on ball and body instead of a choice between the two, no ball to use as a decoy cos it's stuck to player, no ball to use as a baulking counter weight/device and there are plenty more reasons I've seen, as I've been interested in focussing on it during any AFL games I watch.

All I say is check it out, it is a much bigger issue that I have the ability to put into words and I imagine a time when coaches really focus on it as an issue, though they may already but just not ours ;-)

cheers

Jones will never be an elite AFL midfielder and we need to get to a stage where he isn't our best midfielder, which he currently is.

Doesn't mean he isn't a very important part of the midfield group going forward. He has been our best and most consistent player all year and has been a true leader through the middle.

Bagging him seems harsh, although I agree that he needs to be a smaller component in a better midfield.

Precisely.

I wish our midfielders as a collective had the ability to squeeze out handball after handball that gives us time and a little space. We just always seem to be unable to get that quick, spacing, shooting ball out which puts us under pressure where as watching the so many other sides bang bang bang/handball handball handball space/everyone spreads and away they go.

This is exactly what I have been going on about for a while now. We are not clean and quick in the clinches, and outside of Moloney, almost never rove the ball on the move at a stoppage and get a quick and clean clearance moving forward to a target.

Not sure if this is a coaching issue or personnel. Maybe a bit of both.

Your talking Jack (Southern Sons) Jones right? He wasn't a bad singer but sure hes a lousy footballer with the Bert eyebrow action happening..couldn't resist your pictorial Sloonie

Jones is only as good as the rucks doing their job.

Jamar has been so atrocious and readable.

Every hit out goes to the feet of a stationary player.

The opposition love this.

I'd like him to develop a plan B & C. Hit it wide to a running player. or belt it to CHF.

Anything but the tripe he delivers every week.

Look at the Stats. Hit outs v Hit outs to advantage. and see why our mid field is shite.

I have said this before but a given our midfield woes I think this needs to be looked at more closely. At this stage Nathan Jones is perhaps our most courageous and hard at it player and always gives a 100%. But in his main role around clearances ands stoppages he is a liability and not helped because he gets the ball more than most others.Too slow to make a decision and his first instinct usually is to protect the ball. Sticks it under his arms and try's to bulldoze out packs and usually goes to ground. The consequences are the ball gets locked up, fudges his disposal or gets caught. He's so slow in making up his mind that there is always easy pressure swooping in around him. Hence clean disposals by him to advantage are a rarity. He remind me so much of Gary Ablett in the clinches but the difference is that Gary raises his head when he gets the ball and looks for an option as first instinct.

I love the guy but he's got to do more with the ball ad quicker. He's strangling our midfield at the moment.

Wrong

Thats the point everyone misses. It's no coincidence we have the worst midfield when our best midfielder and others can't dish the ball out quickly enough after the crucial first hands on the ball. Speed and cleanliness of disposal is crucial The outside players are caught flatfooted or out of position because they are either waiting too long for the ball to get out or not sure where its likely to go. Consequently they look like idiots. I'm sure oposition players are well aware of these weaknessess and apply pressure accordingly.

You definitely have this the wrong way around. Our players all get way too close to the contest, particularly in packs at stoppages, but also our crumbers at marking contests. To often we have ask our players either on the ground/in the contest our standing 1m inside their opponent. When the ball spills out, if it goes directly to us we are tackled immediately by the outside player, if it goes in a gap the opposition get the loose ball as they run out with a 2 step advantage. Watts and Howe do this better than Moloney, Jones, McKenzie or Magner, who ask get too close. These three are inside mids, we don't have any outside mids.

Jones is only as good as the rucks doing their job.

Jamar has been so atrocious and readable.

Every hit out goes to the feet of a stationary player.

The opposition love this.

I'd like him to develop a plan B & C. Hit it wide to a running player. or belt it to CHF.

Anything but the tripe he delivers every week.

Look at the Stats. Hit outs v Hit outs to advantage. and see why our mid field is shite.

Right so the other sides players can read the tap as it goes to the feet and get 1st, quick, clean use of it but ours can't... and it is Jamar's fault?

Right so the other sides players can read the tap as it goes to the feet and get 1st, quick, clean use of it but ours can't... and it is Jamar's fault?

Wrong.

they sit in wait and tackle our players and force a turnover.

we need variation to keep the opposition guessing.

WTF is Brian Royal doing?

You definitely have this the wrong way around. Our players all get way too close to the contest, particularly in packs at stoppages, but also our crumbers at marking contests. To often we have ask our players either on the ground/in the contest our standing 1m inside their opponent. When the ball spills out, if it goes directly to us we are tackled immediately by the outside player, if it goes in a gap the opposition get the loose ball as they run out with a 2 step advantage. Watts and Howe do this better than Moloney, Jones, McKenzie or Magner, who ask get too close. These three are inside mids, we don't have any outside mids.

Couldnt agree more. Way too congested. Some of the mids must stay on the fringe of the contest. We look like schoolyard footballers where everybody wants to get the ball the same in marking contests We havent learned Robbo ruined David Nietz's career by jumping all over him The same is happening to Clarke Its just so damned amatuerish

Jones + Moloney + McKenzie + Couch = plodders

Yes, it must be caused by the amount of time he is taking to wipe the dirt off the ball before passing it on. As was stated a few times in the responses, it is hard for Jones to dish the ball off quickly and effectively if he doesn't have the support of players running on to it... how often to we see him fighting for the ball only to find there is no one waiting in support.

Exactly this.

Jones is getting better each year IMO. So much so that I think the potential for him to become A Grade still remains. His game developing past this point partly hinges on having better players around him.

Couldnt agree more. Way too congested. Some of the mids must stay on the fringe of the contest. We look like schoolyard footballers where everybody wants to get the ball the same in marking contests We havent learned Robbo ruined David Nietz's career by jumping all over him The same is happening to Clarke Its just so damned amatuerish

If anyone disagrees grab a copy of the richmond game; it is actually funny how badly our players are drawn to the ball, almost like watching under 11 football! Even in open play, if there is a handball all heads turn and bodies drift a few steps towards the player now in possession. We never follow our direct opponent ore mover into space, we always get sucked towards the ball like a moth to the flame.

In the first half against richmond there was usually one of watts or howe or another outside style player in the guys at the bounce. In the 3rd quarter it was almost exclusively mckenzie, jones and magner. What happened in the third quarter? We got smashed in the centre clearances...

To highlight the problem with our midfield , on super coach averages this year the highest ranked midfielder we have at the moment is Nathan jones coming in at number 65 !! Trengove is 69, really shows that we need some midfield stars soon ! I know super coach scores aren't everything but surely this is a concern !!!

Worth a bump

Yes, it was almost worthy of "worst post eva" status when it first appeared... now I think all doubt has been removed.