And yet he doesn't get games. What does that tell you? Your post could have been written by a Warnock hater and it would have served the same purpose. Warnock isn't up to it. Club knows it, I know it, fans know it. Hopefully we can get something for himout of desperation from a club that thinks he might fill a hole for them.

Warnock has finished top 5 in the B&F t the club twice in the last 4 years so he can play. We have had a younger and younger side over the last couple of years and this hasn't helped him, he is a player that needs confidence and other good players around him at the moment he is lacking in confidence and he has had some pretty ordinary players to support him.

The new coach may have a differing view of his ability so let's wait and see.

And hopefully the Collingwood forwards can support this urgument tonight.

6 out of their 10 goals coming from Cloke and Dawes helps. It's pretty easy to explain Warnock not getting a game when you look at the B & F finishes of Frawley, Rivers and Garland.

6 out of their 10 goals coming from Cloke and Dawes helps. It's pretty easy to explain Warnock not getting a game when you look at the B & F finishes of Frawley, Rivers and Garland.

You could mount a very strong argument that if Warnock played for hawks last night instead of Schoenmakers they would be in the GF. Not only would Warnock have possibly saved a goal or two from Cloke or Dawes but Schoenmakers on his own with his turnovers cost the Hawks the game.

Chippa, Rivers, Garland all get games before Warnock. I reckon that J.Mac is able to slot into a 4th defender role against teams that play particularly big, whereas Warnock is more a 2nd defender option. Great for depth but its about value.

Here's the kicker, we have J.Mac, and if Gawn starts looking the goods big Stef Martin may be a bit of a "swing man" (definitely an ideal option against a guy like Hale).

If he was 27 years old it would be a whole different story but he is surely lower in the queue than other guys who haven't gotten in the first 22 regularly like Tom McDonald, Jack Fitzpatrick

Dermie said on SEN today that Matt would walk into the Hawks backline.

Great, maybe Matty will hold some actual value in the current market, Hawthorn did trade a late first rounder for Hale, not that i expect this for MW

I think we can get a first rounder for Warnock. 2nd rounder each for Bate and Dunn and a 3rd rounder for Maric. That's about 17, 34, 35, 46. We should then trade all of these to get say pick 1 or 2. Using those picks we could get John Patton.

Two things:

1. He will not get a first round draft pick. Even if you believe he is worth it he is out of contract, wants to leave, and only played 4 games in 2011.

2. Those picks will not get near pick 1. We turned down Port Adelaide's offer of Picks 8 and 9 to keep pick 2 that was spent on Trengove. Picks in the top 5 are priceless and take more to get than a late first rounder and speculative picks in the 30s and 40s...

http://www.heraldsun...t-1226143984302

It seems that Bailey wasn't the great on communicator after all; I find it appalling that Warnock wasn’t told what he had done wrong and what he needed to do to rectify the problem.

I thought that was a poor comment from Matty. Should have just looked over the vision from the Carlton game himself for starters.

So you reckon he shouldn't have worried about the coach he should have just taken a bit more notice of the posters on here?

This is what he said.

"I wasn't told any specific area to work on to get back into the side, but it's pretty clear Melbourne are going down a different direction," he said

I find it disturbing that a coach who only has 40 odd players under him, couldn't take the time out to explain where one of them was going wrong, dont you?

But then again the real reason was here, clear and simple.

He is not the only one of our players to have said exactly the same thing I can assure you. Seems Bailey didn't explain to players what they were doing wrong.

Two things:

1. He will not get a first round draft pick. Even if you believe he is worth it he is out of contract, wants to leave, and only played 4 games in 2011.

Hale proved last year that playing limited games and wanting to leave does not mean you cannot get a high pick. As long as there are multiple clubs strongly interested in his services which I expect Hawthorn and Carlton both will be at least then we will obtain over his perceived value to our team.

Two things:

1. He will not get a first round draft pick. Even if you believe he is worth it he is out of contract, wants to leave, and only played 4 games in 2011.

2. Those picks will not get near pick 1. We turned down Port Adelaide's offer of Picks 8 and 9 to keep pick 2 that was spent on Trengove. Picks in the top 5 are priceless and take more to get than a late first rounder and speculative picks in the 30s and 40s...

I was obviously taking the p*ss with this comment. Congratulations, you have bitten to the unbiteable

I wonder if he has had the "sit down face to face" with Neeld yet?

"What do you want to achieve in 2012, Matt?"

"Regular AFL games"

"Do you believe that you have the ability and commitment to do this at MFC?"

"Yes"

........thoughts from Neeld .....".....?????"

Depends whether he sees Matt as being able to fill one of his "roles", and who else he has in mind for these roles.

A change of coach could make Matt; on the other hand a change of club could too.

I was obviously taking the p*ss with this comment. Congratulations, you have bitten to the unbiteable

Patently obvious...

Depends whether he sees Matt as being able to fill one of his "roles", and who else he has in mind for these roles.

A change of coach could make Matt; on the other hand a change of club could too.

And in the end, probably neither will.

Farren Ray....you're kidding yourself. He isn't the list clogger we would want

Lynch & Stanley on the other hand- very limited game time like most of the young Saints.

Farren Ray is or would make a great pick up for us IMO- would make a great running winger for us.

Farren Ray is or would make a great pick up for us IMO- would make a great running winger for us.

Rohan Bail fills his role better.

We don't need nor want Ray.

He's the solution to a problem that doesn't exist at our club right now.

lol

Really?

He better run that by Clarkson...

Did you see Schoenmakers game?

Warnock has finished top 5 in the B&F t the club twice in the last 4 years so he can play. We have had a younger and younger side over the last couple of years and this hasn't helped him, he is a player that needs confidence and other good players around him at the moment he is lacking in confidence and he has had some pretty ordinary players to support him.

The new coach may have a differing view of his ability so let's wait and see.

I could've finished top 5 in those years, Bad example Robbie. I'd be happy to take a third round pick for him.

Did you see Schoenmakers game?

Kids got some issues to work on.

Matty Warnock is a walking fist who is a liability with the footy.

I don't believe he is as valuable as some Dees fans think.

We will see soon enough.

If the Hawks are interested in Warnock then why not look at a possible trade for Xavier Ellis or Clinton Young. Both appear to have missed games through being injured/out of favour this year.

Did you see Schoenmakers game?

Correct. Dermie said that you need one guy to play on the gorilla in each team. He doesn't have to be the best user of the ball and you can't have more than one of them in your back 6. But you need one against most teams.

He also said that because Hawthorn have lots of good users down back, a gorilla killer would work. But it would not work for say, Richmond, because they don't have enough good users of the ball in the back 6.

I thought it was well thought out and pretty well on the money. Hawthorn and a couple of others would be a fit

I thought that was a poor comment from Matty. Should have just looked over the vision from the Carlton game himself for starters.

Good point - Take some responsibility for poor performances in the seniors - a little self analysis is in order.

Did you see Schoenmakers game?

And did you see Frawley and Garlands game at the same age ? We keep falling into the same trap of potting under-developed juniors. The difference between Schoenmakers and Warnock is Warnock is still making the same errors at age 27.For Schoenmakers it is about experience and development to make him a better footballer

Frawley and Garland were both much better than Schoenmakers at the same age, but your point about being too hard on undeveloped players is a good one. Especially tall defenders, who often come on later than most.

Frawley and Garland were both much better than Schoenmakers at the same age, but your point about being too hard on undeveloped players is a good one. Especially tall defenders, who often come on later than most.

hmmm - RS is in his thrid season - Col Garland missed his entire 3rd season although he was starting to show something at end of his 2nd season. Frawley was still pretty meh - playing 20 games but having lots of people on here wondering about his ability the same as they are question schoenmakers now - ( not me - I refuse to pot players under 23)

Frawley, at the end of 2009, was holding the best players in the competition as a lock down key defender. He was one of the players we had to move forward against Richmond when we were tanking. He had to moved off Riewoldt against St Kilda because he was smashing him and we looked like we might win. Same with Fevola. 2009 was Frawley's step up to a true AFL player and then the following year he was All Australian when he started to add more rebound to his game.

Garland was playing good footy in 2008, especially towards the end, and was then one of our best in the first round of 2009. He was recognised as a considerable loss when he went down at the time. The same could not currently be said of Shoenmakers.

But that is besides the point, because people jump on these guys too quickly. Especially tall guys. Schoenmakers is not going too badly. He just needs to clean up his brain fades and work on his one on one skills. He's being underrated based on a few bad moments against Collingwood.

But Warnock may be attractive, because Hawthorn's window is now.