Have we improved this year?

[Jaded No More 68,975]

It's definitely been a one step forward two steps back kind of season.

For every improver (e.g.- Martin), I can name two decliners (e.g.- Green, Jurrah, Morton, Davey).

And really since hearing about Frawley's injury in January while on holidays in Bali, the season has completely spiraled out of control. Very disappointing that Grimes has lost yet another year of development, that our leadership group has again let us down badly, that Jamar, Bail, Davey, Garland, Scully and now Strauss suffered injuries, some horrific some just season derailing.

We lost some very winnable games, including two early ones to North and St Kilda which would have all but guaranteed us a finals spot. We lost the plot and got absolutely smashed multiple times. We learnt nothing in the way of defense and playing under pressure or against a zone. We got our coach sacked after accomplishing a loss so big it got us into the record books (again), we went whole quarters without kicking a single goal, and entire quarters where our opposition ran around us like training cones. Many promising players took giant steps backwards, we've had the whole Scully saga hanging over us like a bad smell, and to top it all off, Stynes' health has declined.

It's been a f*#%er of a season and improvement has been only minimal, and definitely limited to only a handful. If this season finished yesterday it would have been 14 rounds too late.

[Range Rover 1,935]

At least next year we won't go into the season with false hope or expectations of making the eight.

Hopefully the new coach will have license to sweep through the list and really clean out the dead wood by the end of 2012.

There are more than a handful there who have been coasting along on reputation for far too long.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

At least next year we won't go into the season with false hope or expectations of making the eight.

Hopefully the new coach will have license to sweep through the list and really clean out the dead wood by the end of 2012.

There are more than a handful there who have been coasting along on reputation for far too long.

Maybe if we can develop some of our kids and teach some of the older players how the modern game is played we won't have such a bad year. I have no expectations and no real hope for next year.

I was heartened by the display by Blease today with him, Strauss (when he returns), Nicholson and Tapscott we should get some run from the backline. It will be good to see Grimes back and perhaps Evans will progress as well. They need to get some good coaching though otherwise they will stagnate like the senior players.

They kept on saying that Bailey was a good teacher and a great development coach well it certainly didn't or doesn't show

[dee-luded 2,959]

It's definitely been a one step forward two steps back kind of season.

For every improver (e.g.- Martin), I can name two decliners (e.g.- Green, Jurrah, Morton, Davey).

And really since hearing about Frawley's injury in January while on holidays in Bali, the season has completely spiraled out of control. Very disappointing that Grimes has lost yet another year of development, that our leadership group has again let us down badly, that Jamar, Bail, Davey, Garland, Scully and now Strauss suffered injuries, some horrific some just season derailing.

We lost some very winnable games, including two early ones to North and St Kilda which would have all but guaranteed us a finals spot. We lost the plot and got absolutely smashed multiple times. We learnt nothing in the way of defense and playing under pressure or against a zone. We got our coach sacked after accomplishing a loss so big it got us into the record books (again), we went whole quarters without kicking a single goal, and entire quarters where our opposition ran around us like training cones. Many promising players took giant steps backwards, we've had the whole Scully saga hanging over us like a bad smell, and to top it all off, Stynes' health has declined.

It's been a f*#%er of a season and improvement has been only minimal, and definitely limited to only a handful. If this season finished yesterday it would have been 14 rounds too late.

Actually Jaded I think you could put that the other way around and it then helps to see things.

Last year retiring junior and moving out Bruce, Miller, PJ, etc was Our 2 Steps back, then this Year we have moved one step forward, but with form that has been disconcerting and confusing to watch.

But in all we have gone forward. we've found another few players to represent the club in Gawn ahead of schedule & committing long term. Howe a first Year player if you don't mind. Martin's fine improvement. Nicholsons great dash & Evans wins the hardball. Tapscotts great year. Petterds found it again. Bails great dash and early season play. Rivers solid play. Strauss's improved development.

Watts. And the Jack, Trenners outstanding efforts.

We've improved a lot, but not so much in the convincing stakes of Footy Club watching, but individually we're ticking along.

[Range Rover 1,935]

Maybe if we can develop some of our kids and teach some of the older players how the modern game is played we won't have such a bad year. I have no expectations and no real hope for next year.

I was heartened by the display by Blease today with him, Strauss (when he returns), Nicholson and Tapscott we should get some run from the backline. It will be good to see Grimes back and perhaps Evans will progress as well. They need to get some good coaching though otherwise they will stagnate like the senior players.

They kept on saying that Bailey was a good teacher and a great development coach well it certainly didn't or doesn't show

"Development coach' is a highly overrated epithet in my opinion. What does that really mean anyway?

All coaches develop young players on their list. Some just do it a whole lot better than others.

I look at the way Mick Malthouse is able to turn careers round (Leon Davis) and meld young talent into his team (Sidebottom) and just wish we could get someone remotely comparable at the helm of our club.

That's what a real 'development coach' does. Bailey was one in name only.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

There have been many players that have left Melbourne to go to other clubs and most of them have played much better when they left than they were with us.

I was disappointed when Simon Buckley was delisted and surprised when Collongwood picked him up but they have certainly been justified in doing so.

[dee-luded 2,959]

"Development coach' is a highly overrated epithet in my opinion. What does that really mean anyway?

All coaches develop young players on their list. Some just do it a whole lot better than others.

I look at the way Mick Malthouse is able to turn careers round (Leon Davis) and meld young talent into his team (Sidebottom) and just wish we could get someone remotely comparable at the helm of our club.

That's what a real 'development coach' does. Bailey was one in name only.

Development coaches are more a teaching type of personality who are generally less demanding & more patient. Th3e finishing coach in the old vernacular are harder taskmasters who demand results and are more ruthless with the players underperforming.

This has modified somewhat over the last 15 Years, but its can always u - turn.

Re Malthouse he has all sorts of specialist coaches at his disposal to allow him to not try to be an everything Coach. He has his specialists to demand results from their respective areas of fitness or conditioning etc.

He would have FAR Less @ Melbourne in the way of support staff.

*He has not had any success @ the Pies before Buckley became assistant & the lexus centre came alive with all it's goodies. How do you know its not Buckleys smarts doing the trick?

[Kento80 83]

Definitely gone backwards this year. We have had individuals go gangbusters this year, and maybe our win/loss might be better, but the quality of games and play have been much worse this year.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Development coaches are more a teaching type of personality who are generally less demanding & more patient. Th3e finishing coach in the old vernacular are harder taskmasters who demand results and are more ruthless with the players underperforming.

This has modified somewhat over the last 15 Years, but its can always u - turn.

Re Malthouse he has all sorts of specialist coaches at his disposal to allow him to not try to be an everything Coach. He has his specialists to demand results from their respective areas of fitness or conditioning etc.

He would have FAR Less @ Melbourne in the way of support staff.

*He has not had any success @ the Pies before Buckley became assistant & the lexus centre came alive with all it's goodies. How do you know its not Buckleys smarts doing the trick?

Malthouse took them to a couple of Grand Finals before Buckley became an assistant coach.

I agree with the rest of what you say though they certainly don't lack for support staff at Collingwood.

[beelzebub 23,390]

In respect to all things Malthouse some here have already noted the likely reality of it all. As often pointed out by a bro-inlaw ( filth ) that The Collingwood success stems from Mickey but is born of a well constructed and immense Football Dept. Its the Coaches Malthouse surrounds himself with that augment his own abilities and secure the success. This isnt cheap

Melbourne , I doubt, will have the resources ( read money ) to finance such a comprehensive rebuild of its footbal linfrastructure. Nearly all of the Maggie assistants are on way above league average salaries.

Its a not a case of which coach you select but which Coaching Team you can pay for

Mickey might be genuinely interested, inded curious as to what he could make of our bunch ( with mods) but unless you can allow him to build his own coaching panel it aint going to happen and hes probably well aware of it

[Happeninghunts 7]

We had 2 AA Player and one that just missed out. No one close this year. We drew with the Pies and lost by a point to them.

[Guest Thomo]

For all the Bailey is a good bloke and good at developing the kids stuff,

I'd love to know who started the "Bailey is a good development coach" myth. The one thing that Bailey has shown is that he is extremely poor at developing players. We could not have had a worse coach during a rebuild, that is why we have gone backwards, and that is why we will struggle for the next few years.

[Range Rover 1,935]

We had 2 AA Player and one that just missed out. No one close this year. We drew with the Pies and lost by a point to them.

1AA - Jamar

Green was not AA.

[Range Rover 1,935]

I'd love to know who started the "Bailey is a good development coach" myth. The one thing that Bailey has shown is that he is extremely poor at developing players. We could not have had a worse coach during a rebuild, that is why we have gone backwards, and that is why we will struggle for the next few years.

Much like the myth of Sylvia being a star, if people say it enough around here it becomes part of the vernacular.

Bailey didn't develop our players very well. I think that's plain now for all to see.

[beelzebub 23,390]

cough !!!!

Mark Jamar

Chip Frawley

[Happeninghunts 7]

1AA - Jamar

Green was not AA.

Frawly

[Range Rover 1,935]

cough !!!!

Mark Jamar

Chip Frawley

Oops tks BB

[beelzebub 23,390]

lol....no probs !!! Its Monday !!

[Born to Run 204]

At least next year we won't go into the season with false hope or expectations of making the eight.

Hopefully the new coach will have license to sweep through the list and really clean out the dead wood by the end of 2012.

There are more than a handful there who have been coasting along on reputation for far too long.

RR - I agree - I wont be sucked into unrealistic expectations as I might have been this year!

But I really hope the next coach does not get a chance to "rebuild" with little / no accountability for the results of next season. I agree 100% that there is more dead wood to trim off the tree, but lets at least set some standards and not give our list the smallest chance at all to think that we are "developing" and it is OK to lose games.

If i could only get one thing from next year, it would have to be a complete turnaround in our culture.

[Demon SeaMan 108]

from an individual perspective there is some shining lights Howe, Tapscot, Trengove (another level) but what this [censored] season has done is brought about the need for leadership and thats where they need to go hard recruiting this year. I think the culture is there and thats why ex players Viney, Lyon, Robbie and Co are good to have at the club because a lot of these players in the whole scheme of things are still raw. What has happended to our club whilst very costly has opened these kids eyes to the scary nature of f'n up in this industry and so I think a pre-season will allow them to get there minds back on the real picture and hone their skills which we know they have.

Bring on 2012 I say (but pumping the tiges this week can always help the healing process)

[realist 2]

Actually Jaded I think you could put that the other way around and it then helps to see things.

Last year retiring junior and moving out Bruce, Miller, PJ, etc was Our 2 Steps back, then this Year we have moved one step forward, but with form that has been disconcerting and confusing to watch.

But in all we have gone forward. we've found another few players to represent the club in Gawn ahead of schedule & committing long term. Howe a first Year player if you don't mind. Martin's fine improvement. Nicholsons great dash & Evans wins the hardball. Tapscotts great year. Petterds found it again. Bails great dash and early season play. Rivers solid play. Strauss's improved development.

Watts. And the Jack, Trenners outstanding efforts.

We've improved a lot, but not so much in the convincing stakes of Footy Club watching, but individually we're ticking along.

Dee-luded is a very apt username for you.

Bruce certainly was not moved out. He was offered and chose not to accept the contract . As a matter of principle he chose

to leave Melbourne for a contract at another club less than half of what Melbourne offered.

Perhaps he saw early the lack of cohesion in the football department.

[Bitter but optimistic 22,289]

For mine it is our skills (or lack thereof) that are the giveaway. Time and time again we give the ball up by poor disposal or by lack of clean receival. This area of our game appears to have remain unchanged over recent years. Unless this changes we are destined to remain mediocre.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

For mine it is our skills (or lack thereof) that are the giveaway. Time and time again we give the ball up by poor disposal or by lack of clean receival. This area of our game appears to have remain unchanged over recent years. Unless this changes we are destined to remain mediocre.

Correct we recruited players that supposedly had good skills and then watched them go backwards; either they didn't have good skills to begin with or they were dragged down by our lack of development. Having good skills at Junior level doesn't always transfer to AFL level where the pressure is much more intense.

Also if you have a game plan that requires a high level of possession and skill why would you pick Jones, Bartam, McDonald and Moloney each week? These players require the skill to deliver the ball from defence and the midfield and clearly aren't up to it. Love the guy but Jordie is a midfielder that doesn't kick the ball and as Bailey said the forwards can't mark a handball.

[Captain Jack Jordan 32]

The year isn't a total loss .

Petterd ,Martin ,Tapscott ,Howe ,Blease ,Watts and Trengove have all kicked on

Gone Backwards

Green ,Sylvia ,Morton ,Jurrah ,Bennell

Fair

Jamar ,Frawley ,Rivers ,Garland,Moloney, Gawn

Same old Schtick

Dunn, Bate ,Bartram ,Newton ,Maric ,

Excuses accepted

Davey ,Scully ,Wonna ,

?? Evans ,Jetta

[pitmaster 3,589]

Best case outcome we win 10.5 games compared to last year 8.5 games. Factor in that two of those wins are against Gold Coast and statistically we have stayed level.

Crucially, our losing margins have increased.

We might have improved, though not much, but the leading clubs have improved more.

We have lost ground. Part of that is the loss of Junior and Bruce. We are clearly undersized against teams like Hawthorn, Carlton, Collingwood. and that is partly maturity.

But our midfielders also are not good enough, notably Jonesy - tough as he is his skills are not there.

We have marked time and we are a long way off the pace.

Todd has improved the team in one respect, however, and that is that our starts are better. I always worried that DB did not seem to have the team fired up for the first quarter and the evidence so far is that Todd is achieving that. Conclusion? Dean was not up to it, or he was too patient. Either way, he was not going to be there next year.

Retaining Junior would have improved our showing this year but as of now it's all history and we have put a few more games into a few more players. Maybe that's an improvement.

Overall, we have marked time at best.