I don't know if our culture is wrong, but it sure the hell ain't right...

Senior players attitude and consistency. Is that culture?

Or is the tacit acceptance of poor attitude and consistency signs of a bad culture?

We will see if Bailey can break the pattern.

It starts this week, in a game few will think we can win against a team desperate for a win - will we be as desperate?

Some good points, and I think the current administration has done an enormous job in trying to re-establish the identity, respect, and sense of worth of the MFC. It's very difficult to have a culture of success and winning, when the club has been a financial bus crash, has operated in sub standard facilities, has had board upheaval, and basically been fighting for its survival, much less to win games of footy, and flags.

To change the way an organisation operates, thinks, acts, etc is not an easy thing to do, but from what I see, I have never felt more positive about the future, and think the culture already has changed considerably.

The thing I like about the way the club is run now is that tough decisions are made when they need to be, and there is renewed expectations across the board to perform. Make no mistake about it, our culture is improving, and changing.

You could view the James McDonald issue as a positive or a negative, in that they made a tough call on a player in his 30's who had come off a hamstring injury, and they called time on his career for the longer term interests of the club and team. That was a hard call to make, and I've got no doubt the people in and around the club would have loved him as much as the supporters, but the decision says a lot about the current mindset of the club, and the direction they are taking. I'm not sure it highlights any cultural inadeqacies..........it may not have been the right decision in hindsight, but I don't know it can be pointed to as a reference for a bad culture.

I don't think you can point to the decision to force the retirement as culture - that was just a poor decision IMO.

The culture aspect is two fold. One, some cultures will back their captain to make a decision in everyone's interests without intervention. And two, the lack of/poor communication with Junior and resulting bad blood is indicative of what we could generously term an evolving culture.

Fair point. Its just that every time I hear Joe Hockey talk about economics or the budget...well its our taxes at work.

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Lets keep politics (and religion etc) off the footy board. No good will come of it.

At least on the footy board we all have one thing in common

We do have a general board, but no-one seems too interested in it

Brereton's comment about Green (about how he kicks the ball then watches the kick rather than chasing after it) is spot on.

We have a bunch of senior players who can't find it in themselves to lead. We have a bunch of younger players who have shown they have what it takes, but can't produce it on a consistent basis. And we have a coach who doesn't look like he can fix these problems.

Brereton's comment about Green (about how he kicks the ball then watches the kick rather than chasing after it) is spot on.

We have a bunch of senior players who can't find it in themselves to lead. We have a bunch of younger players who have shown they have what it takes, but can't produce it on a consistent basis. And we have a coach who doesn't look like he can fix these problems.

Yep..i think you and Dermot nailed it. It is not far off working, but could still take a while to get there.

welcome home Garry

its the right time NOW $10 he will be some part of the coaching team next year all the boys club back again

Does anyone else ever wonder if the front-loading of contracts acts as a disincentive to perform? I mean the players end up with the same amount over the contract period and players are just motivated by financial reward but its seems like a reverse reward system...

Good stuff..

If Matthews is quietly mentoring Bailey, that is a great thing,

We need some outside successful ideas to bring in...Lethal always gave 110% on & off the park.

Yeah, good point, Bailey clearly only give about 80% effort...

Honestly, you say some bloody silly things sometimes WYL.

A qualified mentor is a good thing, however, Matthews or otherwise.

Does anyone else ever wonder if the front-loading of contracts acts as a disincentive to perform? I mean the players end up with the same amount over the contract period and players are just motivated by financial reward but its seems like a reverse reward system...

that has occurred to me

someone like Cale Morton is on plenty, because he showed immense promise in his first 2 years. Those sort of contract talks are held in the guise that he will automatically improve. Has simply hasn't stepped up. Yet.

maybe what these hawks fellas are talking about is that if you were at Hawthorn or collingwood and a bloke went about his footy with that osrt of timidity your teammates/coaches would get stuck right into you. Maybe it doesn't happen at Melbourne

Firstly, I would like to say that I think Dean has done a fantastic job at readying this group of 'kids' for AFL football. Their skills are very good, their understanding of the game is good and they are fit enough to run out a whole game.

However, I think he has taken this group as far as he can. They need an elite coach. A tactical master who can tie all of the pieces, that Dean has created, together. A coach that is as revered as he is respected. He needs a little bit of intimidation and a whole lot of "I don't want excuses" about him. They need a taskmaster to slap 'em around and steer them, kicking and screaming if necessary, to where their potential is waiting for them. They don't need a coach that they want to win for. They need a coach that they feel they must win for. Whether it's to avoid a spraying or whether it's in fear of letting the coach down, it doesn't matter. I don't believe they have it now.

Why should the culture change when overrated players have been paid big bucks for doing not much for over a decade. Theres been a passing parade of them like White, Yze, Robertson, Neitz, Bruce, Johnstone, etc and now Davey, Rivers and Green. The tradition continues.

HA FUNNY HA! You haven't got a clue pal! Stick to gridiron. You didn't include Flower, Barassi, Mithen and co in your list. What happened?

Firstly, I would like to say that I think Dean has done a fantastic job at readying this group of 'kids' for AFL football. Their skills are very good, their understanding of the game is good and they are fit enough to run out a whole game.

However, I think he has taken this group as far as he can. They need an elite coach. A tactical master who can tie all of the pieces, that Dean has created, together. A coach that is as revered as he is respected. He needs a little bit of intimidation and a whole lot of "I don't want excuses" about him. They need a taskmaster to slap 'em around and steer them, kicking and screaming if necessary, to where their potential is waiting for them. They don't need a coach that they want to win for. They need a coach that they feel they must win for. Whether it's to avoid a spraying or whether it's in fear of letting the coach down, it doesn't matter. I don't believe they have it now.

If it's not too much I'd like a sprinkle of moondust in his hair aswell .

I don't know if our culture is wrong, but it sure the hell ain't right...

Senior players attitude and consistency. Is that culture?

Or is the tacit acceptance of poor attitude and consistency signs of a bad culture?

We will see if Bailey can break the pattern.

It starts this week, in a game few will think we can win against a team desperate for a win - will we be as desperate?

Without seeming pedantic...I m not sure the culture is wrong per se.. But its not RIGHt either. There are certainly elements of the clubs manifesto of late which have changed for the better. i.e we stil lexist being proof of the pudding. But perhaps the one brush tars all appraoch must be reviewed somewhat and view CULTURE as having varying qualities as it effects the various departments.

There certainly seems an air of best-practice about the clubs admin these days. There is a perception from without that they also are inclusive as a club to its members and quite lateral in approach to things. Thats the Admin side. Swinging across to teh FD side this is where impressions get very rubbery.

In sport, at the highest echelons youd expect a , we dont take prisoners type of attitude. The very nature of competitive sport is strangely enough ...to compete. even dare i say it..to win. From this must come a very low tolerance of anything but 100% efforts. ( and thats 100% of the time ) I just dont get this vibe ffrom our beloved club. I still get the , well, if we put inSOME decent efforts....sometimes that we'll get sort of near there-ish !

this may well be wrong but seeing is beleiving and thats what I see on the field. So it must come from somewhere..

RPFC..im going to suggest what you allude to is correct...i.e that " the tacit acceptance of poor attitude and consistency signs of a bad culture?" is indeed the case. Comes back to ...walks like, sounds like, looks like a duc; therefore ...

Something that is genuinely missing form us at present...and for quite a while really is that gool ol quality of "Mongrel" This isnt about beligerant careless thuggery but about a Terrier like tenaciousness to just not give in. When things are down you latch on even tighter and harder and keep at it and at it..until th ejobs done. Champion and Premiership teams have this. We dont.. we start to drop our heads. We give up the chases after a while and thenwe often pretend to be trying. We all now how that works you make it look like your doing something, look liek your 2nd efforting but reality is is smoke and mirrors..you just dont want to look TOO lazy to the selctors.

Whomever it was here who noted the differing atmosphere that permeates the likes of Hawthorn and Crlton is Im affraid deaon on the money. You enter their hallowed halls and you cant but feel the idea that they are fair dinkum in their quests. Half measures arent taken etc. Its almost a stench. Melbourne doesnt have it. its almost too sanitised these days. Yes theres a lustre of the gloriosu days of youre but its been so long since we added silver ware that its like a bloody museum.. with no modern day relevance to our quest.. Its a shrine to what we did once...but thats not us now sort of thing. This becomes an element of the culture.

A meaning of Culture : the ideas, customs, and social behaviour of a particular people or society: as applies here to this Club must embrace the the how , why and what .

Not too long ago an article in the HUN proposed the notion " Are the Demons too nice to really be a top AFL team?" the polls response suggested around 3/4 thought so. Would such a result come of Hawthorn, Carlton, Collingwood etc ?? I doubt it. People understand that the Culture of these clubs is styled in the pursuit of victory and embodied in the blood sweat and tears left on the ground after weekly battle.

Many just think Melbourne seems happy enough to have made it past extinction and are jolly little lambs running around the park

This has to change.. The culture that moulds the mindsets that drive the ambitions of our players and coaches must lift its eyes.

Without seeming pedantic...I m not sure the culture is wrong per se.. But its not RIGHt either. There are certainly elements of the clubs manifesto of late which have changed for the better. i.e we stil lexist being proof of the pudding. But perhaps the one brush tars all appraoch must be reviewed somewhat and view CULTURE as having varying qualities as it effects the various departments.

There certainly seems an air of best-practice about the clubs admin these days. There is a perception from without that they also are inclusive as a club to its members and quite lateral in approach to things. Thats the Admin side. Swinging across to teh FD side this is where impressions get very rubbery.

In sport, at the highest echelons youd expect a , we dont take prisoners type of attitude. The very nature of competitive sport is strangely enough ...to compete. even dare i say it..to win. From this must come a very low tolerance of anything but 100% efforts. ( and thats 100% of the time ) I just dont get this vibe ffrom our beloved club. I still get the , well, if we put inSOME decent efforts....sometimes that we'll get sort of near there-ish !

this may well be wrong but seeing is beleiving and thats what I see on the field. So it must come from somewhere..

RPFC..im going to suggest what you allude to is correct...i.e that " the tacit acceptance of poor attitude and consistency signs of a bad culture?" is indeed the case. Comes back to ...walks like, sounds like, looks like a duc; therefore ...

Something that is genuinely missing form us at present...and for quite a while really is that gool ol quality of "Mongrel" This isnt about beligerant careless thuggery but about a Terrier like tenaciousness to just not give in. When things are down you latch on even tighter and harder and keep at it and at it..until th ejobs done. Champion and Premiership teams have this. We dont.. we start to drop our heads. We give up the chases after a while and thenwe often pretend to be trying. We all now how that works you make it look like your doing something, look liek your 2nd efforting but reality is is smoke and mirrors..you just dont want to look TOO lazy to the selctors.

Whomever it was here who noted the differing atmosphere that permeates the likes of Hawthorn and Crlton is Im affraid deaon on the money. You enter their hallowed halls and you cant but feel the idea that they are fair dinkum in their quests. Half measures arent taken etc. Its almost a stench. Melbourne doesnt have it. its almost too sanitised these days. Yes theres a lustre of the gloriosu days of youre but its been so long since we added silver ware that its like a bloody museum.. with no modern day relevance to our quest.. Its a shrine to what we did once...but thats not us now sort of thing. This becomes an element of the culture.

A meaning of Culture : the ideas, customs, and social behaviour of a particular people or society: as applies here to this Club must embrace the the how , why and what .

Not too long ago an article in the HUN proposed the notion " Are the Demons too nice to really be a top AFL team?" the polls response suggested around 3/4 thought so. Would such a result come of Hawthorn, Carlton, Collingwood etc ?? I doubt it. People understand that the Culture of these clubs is styled in the pursuit of victory and embodied in the blood sweat and tears left on the ground after weekly battle.

Many just think Melbourne seems happy enough to have made it past extinction and are jolly little lambs running around the park

This has to change.. The culture that moulds the mindsets that drive the ambitions of our players and coaches must lift its eyes.

Good post, and it's an interesting topic as it deals with intangibles. The lack of 'mongrel' you describe is spot on. I was saying it in my teens, and keep coming up with it in my forties.

HA FUNNY HA! You haven't got a clue pal! Stick to gridiron. You didn't include Flower, Barassi, Mithen and co in your list. What happened?

What happened? I'm afraid to say not much since they were around. And poor Flower. Wilted on the vine he did.

Yeah, good point, Bailey clearly only give about 80% effort...

Honestly, you say some bloody silly things sometimes WYL.

A qualified mentor is a good thing, however, Matthews or otherwise.

I Beg your Pardon??? I think Leigh Matthews knows a few tthings about Top Line Coaching....A perfect Mentor if in fact it is happening.

I wonder about your agenda on here sometimes to Artie.

Paul Roo's summed it up perfectly "on The Couch" He said it's all well and good players like Sylvia and chippa etc coming out in the media and sayin "we need to stand up", "we need to represent something" every 2nd week, stop talking about it and actually do it!!!! i agree, we talk a good fight but never deliver. Bailey is to blame for the team he picks for sure, but the rest falls squarely on the players heads.

show us something Melbourne!!!!!!!!!

A meaning of Culture : the ideas, customs, and social behaviour of a particular people or society: as applies here to this Club must embrace the the how , why and what .

So it means 'Everything we do'. Surely, we can be more specific when critiquing our club.

RPFC..im going to suggest what you allude to is correct...i.e that " the tacit acceptance of poor attitude and consistency signs of a bad culture?" is indeed the case. Comes back to ...walks like, sounds like, looks like a duc; therefore ...

Something that is genuinely missing form us at present...and for quite a while really is that gool ol quality of "Mongrel" This isnt about beligerant careless thuggery but about a Terrier like tenaciousness to just not give in. When things are down you latch on even tighter and harder and keep at it and at it..until th ejobs done. Champion and Premiership teams have this. We dont.. we start to drop our heads. We give up the chases after a while and thenwe often pretend to be trying. We all now how that works you make it look like your doing something, look liek your 2nd efforting but reality is is smoke and mirrors..you just dont want to look TOO lazy to the selctors.

Whomever it was here who noted the differing atmosphere that permeates the likes of Hawthorn and Crlton is Im affraid deaon on the money. You enter their hallowed halls and you cant but feel the idea that they are fair dinkum in their quests. Half measures arent taken etc. Its almost a stench. Melbourne doesnt have it. its almost too sanitised these days. Yes theres a lustre of the gloriosu days of youre but its been so long since we added silver ware that its like a bloody museum.. with no modern day relevance to our quest.. Its a shrine to what we did once...but thats not us now sort of thing. This becomes an element of the culture.

This is where our 'culture' has an issue and it was what I was alluding to.

It's an intangible but we do have this aura of being too easily pleased with, not mediocrity, but 'near enough' results and effort.

And I think we, the fans, are apart of that.

We were happy enough to finish in the bottom half of the 8 under the latter years of Daniher, and we were happy enough playing finals in between years where we would finish in the botom 4.

Now, judging by Green and Co's reaction to the Adelaide game, the players seem to be happy enough doin gthe hard work when the heat is on and then giving some platitudes about 'next week' and expecting it to happen without puttin gin that effort they put in the previous week.

If it takes a new coach to break this acceptance of 'decentcy' (as opposed to mediocrity) then so be it, my personal view, which most know by now, is that it will be our spiritied talent who are 23 and younger that will break this acceptance of 'near enough is good enough.'

If it's not too much I'd like a sprinkle of moondust in his hair aswell .

Okay, I now have another trait on my wish list

This is where our 'culture' has an issue and it was what I was alluding to.

It's an intangible but we do have this aura of being too easily pleased with, not mediocrity, but 'near enough' results and effort.

And I think we, the fans, are apart of that.

We were happy enough to finish in the bottom half of the 8 under the latter years of Daniher, and we were happy enough playing finals in between years where we would finish in the botom 4.

Now, judging by Green and Co's reaction to the Adelaide game, the players seem to be happy enough doin gthe hard work when the heat is on and then giving some platitudes about 'next week' and expecting it to happen without puttin gin that effort they put in the previous week.

If it takes a new coach to break this acceptance of 'decentcy' (as opposed to mediocrity) then so be it, my personal view, which most know by now, is that it will be our spiritied talent who are 23 and younger that will break this acceptance of 'near enough is good enough.'

Funny you mention that...was just this breakfast yacking with bro-in law ( happens to be filth...but so is wife and 3/4 of her blloody rabblle..lol I digreess lol ) and he raised the situation with a number of clubs.. Swans under Eade..had all the makings but just couldnt lift and get over the fence.. Roos comes in...Bingo.. Similalry Eade's failing at teh Doggies.. and most would say hes a decent coach. Scwabby built the blocks and stuff at Hawthron but again..couldnt lift them...Calrkson comes in..and changed that. In hindsight knight's list was as bad as possibly made out.. Hird?Thompson arrive..and lo and behold. Way back when.. Kornes had the Crows..not a half bad outfit..couldnt crack it.. in Blight.. Flags..... Brisbane need I go on.. theres a trend. And it speaks to this connotation of acceptance....and the acceptance of what !

I agrre.. Melbourne often gives off the vapours that ..hey ..we've made it as were playing ( still ) phew!!! Yep we go out have a go.. ah well ..always next week, next season next millenia etc etc.

They play with a Schoiolboy /Schools mentality...ie.. where it seems footy is important but theres more to their existence.. Well heres a message to the players. When you don that jumper FOOTBALL is the ONLY existence... 2nd , 3rd 4th efforts are the ONLY way. A Flag is the ONLY acceptable level of reward. Its not good enough to just to play and/or well ...16 other teams will do that..

It worries me that as you suggest its the 23 and under brigade thatmight bring this change but if they are immersed sufficiently long in the current 'culture' then they too will turn out the same.

the players seem to be happy enough doin gthe hard work when the heat is on and then giving some platitudes about 'next week' and expecting it to happen without puttin gin that effort they put in the previous week.

This part of your post RPFC happened as far back as the early 70's....it is almost ingrained sadly....it is going to take a huge effort from the whole club to change it.

Whoever it is we need a hard line coach to shake up the FD Department. If it is Dean, start now....enough of the softly softly teaching.

Our list needs to visit the school of hard knocks so to speak.

This part of your post RPFC happened as far back as the early 70's....it is almost ingrained sadly....it is going to take a huge effort from the whole club to change it.

Whoever it is we need a hard line coach to shake up the FD Department. If it is Dean, start now....enough of the softly softly teaching.

Our list needs to visit the school of hard knocks so to speak.

Hence the suggestion that this is our CULTURE

How does it go...if you fail to understand the nature of your failures you are doomed to repeat them ?

HA FUNNY HA! You haven't got a clue pal! Stick to gridiron. You didn't include Flower, Barassi, Mithen and co in your list. What happened?

maybe he was referring to the post-northey era you reckon? to say he doesn't have a point is major head in the sand stuff

maybe he was referring to the post-northey era you reckon? to say he doesn't have a point is major head in the sand stuff

BM knows what he was referring to.

BM believes we sent Robbo, White, et al. packing a year or two too early.

I say WGAF, but that's just me.