In the grey gloom following another horrible performance at our Bermuda triangle, "Darklands", I am trying to see any positives. It is easy to sink into the mire. Two serious injuries and performances by people like Dunn and others that make us think that our list is ordinary and we have a culture problem at the club. We probably have had a culture problem. Players who were pleased with themselves too easily and accepted mediocrity and inconsistency. I do think this is changing but will take time. I don't see the new core following that credo. Tapscott, Trengove, Scully, Mckenzie, Garland, Frawley etc. are a new breed under a new regime. It will take time but it is happening. Hang in there.

On another brighter note I was quite impressed with aspects of Martin's game yesterday. He has a great spring and often got first hands to the ball. His second efforts were fantastic. What was very obvious was the difference in the quality of his tap work. He misdirected so many. He swatted the ball away with some force but often to the advantage of the opposition rather than palming it. The Jamar - Moloney approach was not going to work with Martin in the ruck. Therefore I thought before the game that they should experiment with the Jeff White approach of belting the ball as far forward as possible and set up the mids to take advantage of this. This is still an option, although it does rely on the ruck getting first hit. It ca't be used every time either or the opposition will just counter it. I do hope they have Jamar tutoring Martin for the next few weeks but I know this sort of skill takes years to perfect. Martin is worth persisting with and hopefully one day will be a good alternative. He has so many physical attributes to make him a good player. Speed, strength, athleticism and great below his knees.

Edited May 15, 201114 yr by btdemon

I have been impressed with Martin all year and thought he stood up yesterday. His second efforts were great, often at the drop he'd either gather the ball and clear it or lay a strong tackle.

What bothered me is why we had to have a thrid man up around the ground. I know we employ this tatic on occasion, and it works ok, but we didn't need a third man up everytime. I thought Martin was capable of competing on his own and our followers were better off trying to read the tap then jump up for it.

Martin had 21 hit outs to Goldstein's 30. Obviously, Goldstein takes the honours (for his work around the ground and pushing forward to kick 2 goals) but Martin was not too far behind in the ruck work IMO.

21 hitouts to north Melbourne players.

Whats the point of getting a hit out if it's not down a team mates throat.

He's a spud. He hesitates constantly, he's just not a natural footballer and never will be.

21 hitouts to north Melbourne players.

Whats the point of getting a hit out if it's not down a team mates throat.

He's a spud. He hesitates constantly, he's just not a natural footballer and never will be.

Really harsh on Martin.

Came back after being dropped for the Adelaide game, pushed into the no. 1 ruck position, played his guts out.

Was one of the few that really battled, and as others have stated, his second efforts and agility was great to see.

In the grey gloom following another horrible performance at our Bermuda triangle, "Darklands", I am trying to see any positives. It is easy to sink into the mire. Two serious injuries and performances by people like Dunn and others that make us think that our list is ordinary and we have a culture problem at the club. We probably have had a culture problem. Players who were pleased with themselves too easily and accepted mediocrity and inconsistency. I do think this is changing but will take time. I don't see the new core following that credo. Tapscott, Trengove, Scully, Mckenzie, Garland, Frawley etc. are a new breed under a new regime. It will take time but it is happening. Hang in there.

On another brighter note I was quite impressed with aspects of Martin's game yesterday. He has a great spring and often got first hands to the ball. His second efforts were fantastic. What was very obvious was the difference in the quality of his tap work. He misdirected so many. He swatted the ball away with some force but often to the advantage of the opposition rather than palming it. The Jamar - Moloney approach was not going to work with Martin in the ruck. Therefore I thought before the game that they should experiment with the Jeff White approach of belting the ball as far forward as possible and set up the mids to take advantage of this. This is still an option, although it does rely on the ruck getting first hit. It ca't be used every time either or the opposition will just counter it. I do hope they have Jamar tutoring Martin for the next few weeks but I know this sort of skill takes years to perfect. Martin is worth persisting with and hopefully one day will be a good alternative. He has so many physical attributes to make him a good player. Speed, strength, athleticism and great below his knees.

The Jeff White approach? That's finished - the centreline across the circle put an end to that. White's leap needed a run-up but the AFL messed with the rules, as there were too many knee injuries.

I'm sorry, I didn't see what you saw in Stef Martin yesterday - he is a list clogger. The other boys you mentioned...well, they're stars and can play

21 hitouts to north Melbourne players.

Whats the point of getting a hit out if it's not down a team mates throat.

He's a spud. He hesitates constantly, he's just not a natural footballer and never will be.

I couldn't agree more - yesterday, his hesitation was further compounded as he had good, clean kicks run past him, begging for the ball and he bombs a finger breaking floater to????

Sorry, his development time is up and the FD will need to make a tough call soon.....

I am happy to give Stef time, but I can't see him making it as a ruckman.

It is a few things...his inability to time his leap (goes far too early), his want to avoid body contact in the ruck (could explain why he jumps so early) and as mentioned, no real purpose or direction when he does get first hands on the pill.

In my opinion, throw Gawn in the deep end. We need a natural ruckman otherwise we will continue to be slaughtered in the clearances like we were yesterday. Surely a > 2m beanpole will provide a better option in the middle.

I couldn't agree more - yesterday, his hesitation was further compounded as he had good, clean kicks run past him, begging for the ball and he bombs a finger breaking floater to????

Sorry, his development time is up and the FD will need to make a tough call soon.....

are you serious man??????he was outstanding yesterday as the no 1 ruckman and has been all year as back up for Jamar. He wins his share of hitouts, actually gets quite a lot of the ball around the ground and although his skills arent great and hes not a natural footballer he always hits his targets and makes good decisions. If you want to get your frustration out and sink the boot into someone why not save it for bailey, Davey, Green, Jones or the match review panel

are you serious man??????he was outstanding yesterday as the no 1 ruckman and has been all year as back up for Jamar. He wins his share of hitouts, actually gets quite a lot of the ball around the ground and although his skills arent great and hes not a natural footballer he always hits his targets and makes good decisions. If you want to get your frustration out and sink the boot into someone why not save it for bailey, Davey, Green, Jones or the match review panel

Agree - thought Stef was sensational in a rather gloomy day out (again) for the boys.

Clearly he doesn't have the same ability as Jamar and none of our mids can really read his tapwork as well (proof is in Beamer's lack of clearances!!!)... but Stef is definitely the backup for Jamar as he competes all day around the ground. 21 hit-outs and 20 disposals. 125 SuperCoach points.

21 hitouts to north Melbourne players.

Whats the point of getting a hit out if it's not down a team mates throat.

He's a spud. He hesitates constantly, he's just not a natural footballer and never will be.

There should be a Demonland award for moronic post of the week. You have it stitched up.

21 hitouts to north Melbourne players.

Whats the point of getting a hit out if it's not down a team mates throat.

He's a spud. He hesitates constantly, he's just not a natural footballer and never will be.

Completely unfair.

I didn't rate him as having a future before this season, he is now destined to have a future with the sub rule requiring the back-up ruck to be able to play a different role - he can play back (unlikely) and he can cause a contest forward.

And his ruckwork is getting better...

The next month of footy, he will have the time of his life, I have no doubt he will use it to stitch up a permanent spot in the side.

Completely unfair.

I didn't rate him as having a future before this season, he is now destined to have a future with the sub rule requiring the back-up ruck to be able to play a different role - he can play back (unlikely) and he can cause a contest forward.

And his ruckwork is getting better...

The next month of footy, he will have the time of his life, I have no doubt he will use it to stitch up a permanent spot in the side.

Agree agree agree.....how does Stef becomes the whipping boy to some here based on yesterday??????????? Just amazingly wrongheaded.

Agree agree agree.....how does Stef becomes the whipping boy to some here based on yesterday??????????? Just amazingly wrongheaded.

Also agree. Pick the one who had an impact yesterday, Green, Aussie, Dunn and Martin. I will give a tip, the first three were hopeless.

There should be a Demonland award for moronic post of the week. You have it stitched up.

Great comment 'Choko'. Martin was a leading light in the gloom of yesterday. He contested all over the ground and his athleticism is to be admired. He will make the grade have no worries. I was impressed too by Michael Newton's efforts. He has taken a long time to develop but MAYBE yesterday saw the final breakthrough into the big time.

I couldn't agree more - yesterday, his hesitation was further compounded as he had good, clean kicks run past him, begging for the ball and he bombs a finger breaking floater to????

Sorry, his development time is up and the FD will need to make a tough call soon.....

Classic 'demonland' response after a big loss. Stefan is a very adequate back up ruck option in this day in age, and has great versatility.

I have really enjoyed Martin's improvement and am really hoping he continues to improve. Being in my final year of a law degree, I love that he's a smart kid studying law also. The kid is switched on, and i hope he continues to improve.

Proved yesterday that he is not a number 1 ruckman.

He is a number 2 ruckman.

There is a difference, a big one. The two positions are not the same.

Martin is fine when playing 20-30% of the time in the ruck. Against most sides he comes up against their number 2 ruck, and he competes fine. His around the ground work is good, his fitness and mobility outstanding, and his skills not that bad.

As a number 1 ruck, he's not good enough. Against the better ruckmen he doesn't do as well.

Blame should not be directed to him. He was out of his depth, but that's to be expected.

What? Stef was fantastic yesterday given the situation he was in, competing against a genuine #1 ruck when he has only really started playing #2 ruck this season. His dropping for the Adelaide game was harsh - he's been fantastic so far this season and continues to improve.

He offers fantastic utility. He can be a marking target down forward, a backman if an extra tall is required or a second around-the-ground ruckman. Couldn't ask for anything more from him.

21 hitouts to north Melbourne players.

Whats the point of getting a hit out if it's not down a team mates throat.

He's a spud. He hesitates constantly, he's just not a natural footballer and never will be.

Jimmy Stynes was not a 'natural footballer'. He was a brilliant athlete, Gaelic footballer and fiercely determined. He became a great footballer. There are many players throughout history who were not natural footballers but athletes who adapted. Martin was a good basketballer. He definitely has the athletic ability. He needs to work on his kicking as well.

Edited May 15, 201114 yr by btdemon

Jimmy Stynes was not a 'natural footballer'. He was a brilliant athlete, Gaelic footballer and fiercely determined. He became a great footballer. There are many players throughout history who were not natural footballers but athletes who adapted. Martin was a good basketballer. He definitely has the athletic ability. He needs to work on his kicking as well.

I think comparisons from different generations aren't fair.

Jimmy was a freak, not just because of his amazing mental strength, but his willingness to do anything to succeed.

Stef Martin doesn't have the motor, makes poor decisions and doesn't play to his limited strengths.

Having said that, he needs to be coached on zoning and positioning.

All those who have ejaculated their disapproval at my posts, I appreciate where you're coming from, but yesterday would have been a perfect day to bring in another youngster - remember, 2013 is the goal.

at a similar age and number of games I think he probabaly compares well to the development of Mark Jamar

21 hitouts to north Melbourne players.

Whats the point of getting a hit out if it's not down a team mates throat.

He's a spud. He hesitates constantly, he's just not a natural footballer and never will be.

Pathetic comment from an idiot who doesn't understand the game.

Martin has been playing footy for something like 4 or 5 years only. He was a mature age recruit and in his short career has played down back, up forward and now in the ruck.

He was thrown into a first ruck role under extreme pressure and came up against a genuinely good ruckman and he held his own. He also won his fair share of clearances. He has 6 clearances to be exact, second highest in the team behind Gysberts who had 7 (Moloney had 5). He was also in the top 3 for tackling yesterday. That is despite hurting his ribs in the VFL last week and copping a knee injury during the game yesterday.

It disgusts me that people stick the boot in when a player clearly works extremely hard and tries his best, when so many of his teammates didn't even do that. Martin ran all day, with very little help, and you bemoan his lack of taps to advantage. Do you even know how hard it is to master that? It took Jamar 7 years! Martin has played about 7 games in the ruck at AFL level. FFS!

Agree - thought Stef was sensational in a rather gloomy day out (again) for the boys.

Clearly he doesn't have the same ability as Jamar and none of our mids can really read his tapwork as well (proof is in Beamer's lack of clearances!!!)... but Stef is definitely the backup for Jamar as he competes all day around the ground. 21 hit-outs and 20 disposals. 125 SuperCoach points.

It took Jamar a while that I remember. I think Martin is coming along nicely.

Not sure what some people expect, but among other things he has a heart.

Went all day and never stopped trying, which is more than can be said for a few others.

21 hitouts to north Melbourne players.

Whats the point of getting a hit out if it's not down a team mates throat.

He's a spud. He hesitates constantly, he's just not a natural footballer and never will be.

Takes one to know one. I believe you have poorly read his performance. To have competed as well as he did is significant. His prime potential is as a utility player who can ruck.

21 hitouts to north Melbourne players.

Whats the point of getting a hit out if it's not down a team mates throat.

He's a spud. He hesitates constantly, he's just not a natural footballer and never will be.

It would have helped if you had been there and not relied on the comments of your mate who watched the game at the pub, thinking Melbourne were Black, Silver and Green. Buy a members ticket and join the keen supporters

I love the fact that alot of the time when he gets the ball, he takes off and often outruns a much smaller/sleeker player... great to watch