Memo: Barry Prendergast

[nutbean 8,837]

OK? So there was a general perception in AFL circles that Cale Morton was a top 5 pick. Satisfied yet?

I agree with Titan and there is a hell of a lot of hindsight that constantly goes on every time we talk draft.

I think that there is a fair degree of certainty almost to pick 20 - 25. Yes, certain players have been known to slip for various reasons Rich ? Darling ? and other players make go one or two picks off what the general concensus is. But generally the likes of Morton was always a top five. I think what is sometimes falled to be grasped is recruiters are being asked to crystal ball a 17/18 year old playing against his own, and come up with a clear picture of what he will be like at 22. Does Morton do that much less iron work than Frawley. Who was to know that skinny Frawley would end up the hulk and Morton would be unable to put on the pounds. Certainly Mitch is not skinny so it is not genetics.

I think the mark of the recruiters is how well they do with the speculative late picks/rookie picks and we havent done too badly there.

I also think about WYL argument - I'm not advocating a coaching change - but I do pose this question - do certain clubs/coaches develop up youth better than other clubs ? I pose this further question - why havent we had a genuine superstar since Robbie Flower. ( The ox may have got there if not for the knees). Why do certain players flounder at one club and then flourish when they move ? (Leigh Brown - just ok at North/Freo and now at the pies?)

Edited May 5, 2011 by nutbean

[rpfc 27,673]

FWIW (and I realise it varies poster to poster) I think Morton will develop into a great wingman.

[Hannabal 4]

"He's a true utility and he has all the attributes to thrive in today's precise, uncontested game."

This comment actually highlights how much the game has changed in 3 or so years. The game has riverted back to a heavily contested style.

[Guest Artie Bucco]

FWIW (and I realise it varies poster to poster) I think Morton will develop into a great wingman.

I agree.

I think, like Goddard, he will come on quickly late in his career and be a very damaging player.

As a result, I'd be very disappointed if he were to go to GWS.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

I agree.

I think, like Goddard, he will come on quickly late in his career and be a very damaging player.

As a result, I'd be very disappointed if he were to go to GWS.

I also agree, I am very surprised at how much hatred he has earnt around here, he made some terrible errors last week but he also did some fantastic things that showcased what a unique type of player he is and how ggood he could become

we've seen him rack up disposals, take contested marks, kick goals and shut down good players, how obvious does it need to be that this kid has huge potential

if everyone wasn't having a cry about the fact we are in a bit of a form slump the vitriol wouldn't exist, but there has to be scapegoats, huh?

I'm backing him

[Bay Riffin 1,427]

I also agree, I am very surprised at how much hatred he has earnt around here, he made some terrible errors last week but he also did some fantastic things that showcased what a unique type of player he is and how good he could become

we've seen him rack up disposals, take contested marks, kick goals and shut down good players, how obvious does it need to be that this kid has huge potential

if everyone wasn't having a cry about the fact we are in a bit of a form slump the vitriol wouldn't exist, but there has to be scapegoats, huh?

I'm backing him

I'd back him also, as long as he can improve his tackling and learn to go when it is his turn. Like Watts he needs to commit to a contest more and not try and corral blokes and play keepings off. If and when he gains weight he could be a very handy player against dangerous talls for the opposition. not many talls can run and kick like Morton so lets not give up on him just yet.

I reckon the scape goats should be the ones who continually let us down when we are getting pumped, and unfortuntely Brad Greens name comes up for me.

[Nasher 33,246]

I also agree, I am very surprised at how much hatred he has earnt around here, he made some terrible errors last week but he also did some fantastic things that showcased what a unique type of player he is and how ggood he could become

we've seen him rack up disposals, take contested marks, kick goals and shut down good players, how obvious does it need to be that this kid has huge potential

if everyone wasn't having a cry about the fact we are in a bit of a form slump the vitriol wouldn't exist, but there has to be scapegoats, huh?

I'm backing him

Agreed, well put. I'm backing him also.

[Roost It 1,434]

See this is where we have a problem, as you say, in your mind Scully is the best chance of becoming Elite, that's one player. We've suffered the humility of finishing at the bottom of the ladder a couple of times and being accused of tanking all for the sake of possibly one elite player.

Sydney have finished middle of the road and they picked up last years rising star. Collingwood has recruited as well or better than us over the last few years with some of the great talent they've picked up and yet they are consistently playing in finals.

How can we say we've done well?

There's not many clubs in the league with more than 1 elite player. Collingwood have Swan and Pendlebury heading that way. Geelong had Ablett and maybe Selwood and Bartel closing. Carlton have Judd, Freo has Pavlich, West Coast have no one currently although Cox may have once been classed as elite. The Hawks have Hodge, Brisbane has Brown (although he's fading), The Saints had Hayes. The Dogs, Sydney, Essendon, Richmond, Port and Adelaide don't have one. We certainly don't.

By the way I class elite above an A grader.

[Jordie_tackles 354]

There's not many clubs in the league with more than 1 elite player. Collingwood have Swan and Pendlebury heading that way. Geelong had Ablett and maybe Selwood and Bartel closing. Carlton have Judd, Freo has Pavlich, West Coast have no one currently although Cox may have once been classed as elite. The Hawks have Hodge, Brisbane has Brown (although he's fading), The Saints had Hayes. The Dogs, Sydney, Essendon, Richmond, Port and Adelaide don't have one. We certainly don't.

By the way I class elite above an A grader.

Might throw Sandi up there.... he is un-rivaled in what he does

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Sigh...

Emma Quayle's top 25 for 2007 (URL is dead, this is from a forum which posted it):

3. Cale Morton

(Claremont. 17, 192cm, 79kg) Plenty of clubs would take the third Morton brother if they had the No. 1 pick.

Others dropped away after his finals series, where he was subjected to some close opposition attention.

Morton boasts elite skills, especially for his size, and his running power.

He's a true utility and he has all the attributes to thrive in today's precise, uncontested game.

Jon Ralph:

HIGHLY rated youngster Cale Morton, touted as West Coast's replacement for Chris Judd at pick three, is likely to slip down to Melbourne at pick four.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/eagles-lose-on-draft-ruling/story-e6frf9k6-1111114902197

AFLInsider.net:

AFLinsider.net prediction:

The Eagles were in a position to draft Jarryd Morton last season but went in a different direction and J Morton made his way to Hawthorn. This time around the Eagles are not going to have any chance at drafting Cale Morton, unless they trade up into the early picks. If the Eagles package their first round pick, Mitch Brown and another player or pick it should get them into the top 5 where Cale Morton would be the choice. There is a good chance of the Eagles wanting to make a trade to acquire him, if they don't get a trade done then Adelaide, Essendon or the Bulldogs could be where he goes in the first round.

http://www.aflinsider.net/2007-afl-draft-prospect-cale-morton/

On draft day Emma Quayle wrote this:

If Carlton drafts Cotchin over Kreuzer, Morton is a big chance for Richmond at No. 2. Otherwise, he will make it through to the Demons.

http://www.adelaideclubs.com.au/adelaide-clubs-articles/2007/11/24/2007-national-draft-the-top-10/

OK? So there was a general perception in AFL circles that Cale Morton was a top 5 pick. Satisfied yet?

This is not just about Morton, who by the way i happen to like, it's about the rest of the selections we've had over the last 4 years. And btw which clubs are Quayle and Ralph recruiters for? My question on Morton was, what position did the recruiters recruit him for?

You seem to think that because the media considered Morton to be a top 4 position that justifies all the other unsubstantiated crap you've produced. Mat Burgan has Maric at between 10 and 25 with 4 other clubs interested, 3 of whom passed him over, very scientific.

I've tried to get it through your head that I don't care what Burgan, Quayle or Ralph think they just get unsubstantiated rumours like you and take them as Gospel, do you really think the recruiters are going to tell them who they are going to take? I know you probably don't understand this but they usually keep these things close to their chest and the last thing they want to do is share it with the media, hence the media, like you speculate and usually get it wrong. Have a look at the phantom drafts. So back to my question to you; who were the recruiters that had big wraps on some of the players we selected?

There is of course some sort of order that even I can understand, and there are some players that stand out, but it's up to the recruiters from each club to cut through the crap and work out who will best fit the club and has the mental and physical toughness to make it. We have recruited some of the softest players in the competition and that falls back on the recruiters and whether you agree or not is of little or no interest to me because I've already figured out you haven't got a clue.

[nutbean 8,837]

This is not just about Morton, who by the way i happen to like, it's about the rest of the selections we've had over the last 4 years. And btw which clubs are Quayle and Ralph recruiters for? My question on Morton was, what position did the recruiters recruit him for?

You seem to think that because the media considered Morton to be a top 4 position that justifies all the other unsubstantiated crap you've produced. Mat Burgan has Maric at between 10 and 25 with 4 other clubs interested, 3 of whom passed him over, very scientific.

I've tried to get it through your head that I don't care what Burgan, Quayle or Ralph think they just get unsubstantiated rumours like you and take them as Gospel, do you really think the recruiters are going to tell them who they are going to take? I know you probably don't understand this but they usually keep these things close to their chest and the last thing they want to do is share it with the media, hence the media, like you speculate and usually get it wrong. Have a look at the phantom drafts. So back to my question to you; who were the recruiters that had big wraps on some of the players we selected?

There is of course some sort of order that even I can understand, and there are some players that stand out, but it's up to the recruiters from each club to cut through the crap and work out who will best fit the club and has the mental and physical toughness to make it. We have recruited some of the softest players in the competition and that falls back on the recruiters and whether you agree or not is of little or no interest to me because I've already figured out you haven't got a clue.

Firstly - recruiters only come out in the press AFTER the draft and divulge what and who - and usually pretty sugar coated -" happy we got so and so with pick so and so - a bargain " - but again i agree with Titan.

Do you believe that the journos go to all these under 18 games ? ( any of them ? probably only the championships if that). Where do you think these journo's are getting their ideas on where the draft picks will fall. Whilst the recruiters wouldnt give definites to the journo's as to who they will pick they are certainly giving background information to them on who is who in the zoo. Journos never had an original thought in their lives - so when you are seeing who "ralphy" thinks will go top 20 where do you think he is getting the information to form his opinion ? From the copious under 18 games he has been to ? no siree - they are jsut plagiarising what they are getting from the clubs, recruiters( and probably big footy lol)

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Firstly - recruiters only come out in the press AFTER the draft and divulge what and who - and usually pretty sugar coated -" happy we got so and so with pick so and so - a bargain " - but again i agree with Titan.

Do you believe that the journos go to all these under 18 games ? ( any of them ? probably only the championships if that). Where do you think these journo's are getting their ideas on where the draft picks will fall. Whilst the recruiters wouldnt give definites to the journo's as to who they will pick they are certainly giving background information to them on who is who in the zoo. Journos never had an original thought in their lives - so when you are seeing who "ralphy" thinks will go top 20 where do you think he is getting the information to form his opinion ? From the copious under 18 games he has been to ? no siree - they are jsut plagiarising what they are getting from the clubs, recruiters( and probably big footy lol)

There are plenty of "you tube highlights" available for the journos to get their "big wraps" from, I certainly don't think a Recruiter is going to let these parasites know who they are going to pick and in what order.

Big Footy has a heap of amateur recruiters that spend a lot of time looking at the under age games and they give their views and their phantom drafts usually before the journos do and it's interesting to see the similarities between them even down to the description of the players capabilities. Interestingly last year the top 30 to 35 selections were supposed to be champions all with the same attributes as some established AFL star.

I don't want a BigFooty follower picking our future players I want someone that can actually do it by himself and not pick our draftees based on the big wraps of journos or bigfoty [censored].

We have had the chance to establish the club for a generation and I feel we've let it slip through our hands, you could have picked most of our selections without going to one underage game all you had to do was go on to bigfooty.

[Jordie_tackles 354]

RobbieF - I believe that Morton may be shaped in the Goddard mould... maybe not as good, big boots to fill obviously, i liked what i saw from Morton in 09, he has suffered injuries since then and has straggled a bit obviously.

Has great running ability, and can make good decisions, does rush himself under pressure i think... but hasnt played at this pace for a while.

He was always seen as a utility in my opinion, tall a bit lanky, can run... thats my take not much else

Where do you see him playing?

[Guest Artie Bucco]

RobbieF, desperately clinging to some driftwood... all at sea.

[dee-luded 2,958]

I agree.

I think, like Goddard, he will come on quickly late in his career and be a very damaging player.

As a result, I'd be very disappointed if he were to go to GWS.

I wouldn't switch him now. He's the type of player who needs to bee given more years to be taught to play how we need him to play.

I'd get Moloney to drag him into the Boxing ring often, to teach him a trick or 2. Morton must start to grow up quick.

[jabberwocky 2,301]

Morton? still dunno. I don't know that he has either the strength or reflexes to become what we need. Happy to be proven wrong? Still too early to make a call on BP's recruiting, couple of good hits and a couple of misses.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

RobbieF, desperately clinging to some driftwood... all at sea.

Care to explain where and what I'm clinging too? Care to explain where I'm wrong, or do you just go along with the crowd?

[Dee Fan 3,247]

RobbieF - I believe that Morton may be shaped in the Goddard mould... maybe not as good, big boots to fill obviously, i liked what i saw from Morton in 09, he has suffered injuries since then and has straggled a bit obviously.

Has great running ability, and can make good decisions, does rush himself under pressure i think... but hasnt played at this pace for a while.

He was always seen as a utility in my opinion, tall a bit lanky, can run... thats my take not much else

Where do you see him playing?

Goddard is a much more powerful player than Morton will ever be and can play just about anywhere including CHB and CHF so I don't see the comparison. I think that he will be more a wing/forward and can see him drift in to the forward 50 and kick a few goals from time to time, he seems to be able to find space and for some reason other teams disregard him.

I don't think he is ever going to be an impact player, he will play many serviceable games and probably be regarded as a good but not great player.

[Jordie_tackles 354]

Goddard is a much more powerful player than Morton will ever be and can play just about anywhere including CHB and CHF so I don't see the comparison. I think that he will be more a wing/forward and can see him drift in to the forward 50 and kick a few goals from time to time, he seems to be able to find space and for some reason other teams disregard him.

I don't think he is ever going to be an impact player, he will play many serviceable games and probably be regarded as a good but not great player.

As far as the comparisons go, i think its stems from them both being, high draft selections, both around 193cm, both taking time to develop, Goddard has arrived, both considered versatile???

I think Morton can be versatile, dont think Goddard plays as a key back often, he is the ultimate in versatility though.... didnt Morton play a fair bit back during 09? maybe im dreaming

you are correct, he will definitely be capable of playing wing/forward to effect as a minimum

[titan_uranus 23,133]

This is not just about Morton, who by the way i happen to like, it's about the rest of the selections we've had over the last 4 years. And btw which clubs are Quayle and Ralph recruiters for? My question on Morton was, what position did the recruiters recruit him for?

You seem to think that because the media considered Morton to be a top 4 position that justifies all the other unsubstantiated crap you've produced. Mat Burgan has Maric at between 10 and 25 with 4 other clubs interested, 3 of whom passed him over, very scientific.

I've tried to get it through your head that I don't care what Burgan, Quayle or Ralph think they just get unsubstantiated rumours like you and take them as Gospel, do you really think the recruiters are going to tell them who they are going to take? I know you probably don't understand this but they usually keep these things close to their chest and the last thing they want to do is share it with the media, hence the media, like you speculate and usually get it wrong. Have a look at the phantom drafts. So back to my question to you; who were the recruiters that had big wraps on some of the players we selected?

There is of course some sort of order that even I can understand, and there are some players that stand out, but it's up to the recruiters from each club to cut through the crap and work out who will best fit the club and has the mental and physical toughness to make it. We have recruited some of the softest players in the competition and that falls back on the recruiters and whether you agree or not is of little or no interest to me because I've already figured out you haven't got a clue.

My lord, you just cannot understand a fair and logical argument when you see one.

I'll answer your question, then you can answer mine.

I have no idea who the recruiters were who had big wraps on some of the players we selected. That would be because you don't see recruiters telling people what they think. So the next best thing would be to get a general idea of what people in AFL circles (e.g. fans, journalists etc.) think. I did that, but you don't like that. So be it.

Now to my question: Is it fair for you to criticise recruiting decisions with the benefit of hindsight?

[Axis of Bob 10,479]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/plan-a-with-help/story-e6frf9nx-1111114960780

"He will be a gift at four for Melbourne if it happens as expected," (Scott) Clayton says.

"He's as big a gift at four as Grant is at five."

[Red&BlueBlood 61]

I want to keep morton, i think he has great skills and can play wing / HFF.I think he is getting used to the extra weight he has put on, yes he looks skinny still but is 192cm, so just as tall as Rivers and 5kg lighter.

BP has copped some heat from some people, but why would you take Darling when he may want to go home to WA one day and was in a bit of strife before being drafted? He is of the Tapscott breed in that he had a mans body when drafted.

Watts will come on- Think Frawley who debuted in 2007 and only came on last year (same as Jacky at Rich).

BP has made some great calls - McKenzie, Gyz, Tappy, Bail & Jurrah...

Everyone has expected too much from the kids we have, fair enough if this was 2013/2014.

[leucopogon 1,494]

So the coaches recruit the players do they?

What does the recruiting department do then?

Apparently they sit on their ar$es ignoring guns like Dustin Martin and Jack Darling while they pick the most well spoken, best-mannered, cross country runners going around.

[daisycutter 28,722]

Apparently they sit on their ar$es ignoring guns like Dustin Martin and Jack Darling while they pick the most well spoken, best-mannered, cross country runners going around.

hahaha PML

[The Big Ticket 94]

Apparently they sit on their ar$es ignoring guns like Dustin Martin and Jack Darling while they pick the most well spoken, best-mannered, cross country runners going around.

There's a reason 16 clubs passed on Darling. He's a headcase.