From the AFL website, http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/111527/default.aspx, on the herald sun article

I think this whole mans body/boy's body argument is a bit overblown.

Watts is a marginal 3 cms taller and just 1 kg lighter than Hurley.

A statement like this must come from someone who's not very tall.

3cm in height is significant enough to effect an individual's capacity to physically develop, particularly when we are talking about someone who is 6'5".

I'll use myself as an example: i'm a shade under 6'3" and my body didn't actually fill out until I was about 19/20. Prior to that I weighed in at just 75kg when playing rep level bball in U20's. 2 years later, and I was at 95kg's after my body filled out. Now i'm at 99kgs with just 13% body fat at 28yo. So i don't think the mans body/boy's body argument is overblown at all. We all grow differently.

I mean Nick Riedwolt was a skinny kid when he came into the league and look at him now.

He's effectively a second-year player, like Trengove/Scully. Just managed to get a few extra games in.

If you consider this his second year, you would have to say he is coming along fine.

If last year was considered his first year, that's a pretty good year first up. He hasn't started well this year but it's not uncommon for second year blues.

Watts was drafted a year early and whatever we did that year was going to be a bonus. Unfortunately IMO there was no bonus and that year was wasted.

I personally would pick Hurley now but Watts will be a gun. He's showing things in bits and pieces but it will click and his game will come together. Hurley's clicking.

It would be nice to see Watts with more core strength.

If my Grandma was in the 08 draft i would have taken her before Watts.

I've made excuse after excuse after excuse for Watts, just like many of you have in this thread, but I also recognise that there are worrying signs and that I'd be a fool to deny them.

If Watts ends up being a star, which is why he was drafted at pick 1, he's coming from a looooong way back. At his age, yes all of 20, I can't remember any key forward ever coming from as far back to go on and be a genuine AFL great. People often site Nick Riewoldt when talking about Watts, but Riewoldt won the NAB Rising Star and a B&F in his second year. The comparison is absurd.

Watts' lack of any physicality and the way he looks so unlikely in pack marking contests is of major concern. I think the most surprised person at the G when he took his terrific contested mark against Hawthorn was himself.

I see a good AFL player, but the odds are stacked against him being the star we craved.

A statement like this must come from someone who's not very tall.

3cm in height is significant enough to effect an individual's capacity to physically develop, particularly when we are talking about someone who is 6'5".

I'll use myself as an example: i'm a shade under 6'3" and my body didn't actually fill out until I was about 19/20. Prior to that I weighed in at just 75kg when playing rep level bball in U20's. 2 years later, and I was at 95kg's after my body filled out. Now i'm at 99kgs with just 13% body fat at 28yo. So i don't think the mans body/boy's body argument is overblown at all. We all grow differently.

I mean Nick Riedwolt was a skinny kid when he came into the league and look at him now.

Your statistics don't change the fact that the size difference between Watts and Hurley is marginal.

And basketball is a different kettle of fish altogether.

If only there was a measurement for appetite, hunger and intensity.

From the AFL website, http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/111527/default.aspx, on the herald sun article

it says:

Watts is not the first No. 1 pick to have his worth questioned.

As hard as it is to imagine now, the Hawks' decision to take Luke Hodge with the No. 1 pick in the 2001 National Draft was criticised for several years afterwards. The fact Chris Judd slipped to pick No.3 in that draft ensured this, as did Hodge's far slower development.

The following year's No. 1 pick, Brendon Goddard, also left some underwhelmed for a number of seasons, but no one is questioning the Saints' decision now.

In time, Melbourne's 2008 decision may prove as sound as the Hawks' in 2000 and Saints' in 2001.

In the meantime, Watts is going to have to put up with the inevitable scrutiny the No. 1 tag brings. We don't envy him.

Nor do I.

(or Stepanie and Caro)

A statement like this must come from someone who's not very tall.

3cm in height is significant enough to effect an individual's capacity to physically develop, particularly when we are talking about someone who is 6'5".

I'll use myself as an example: i'm a shade under 6'3" and my body didn't actually fill out until I was about 19/20. Prior to that I weighed in at just 75kg when playing rep level bball in U20's. 2 years later, and I was at 95kg's after my body filled out. Now i'm at 99kgs with just 13% body fat at 28yo. So i don't think the mans body/boy's body argument is overblown at all. We all grow differently.

I mean Nick Riedwolt was a skinny kid when he came into the league and look at him now.

yeah but to what extent does it actually affect how good you are on a footy field? people make way too much out of this sort of thing, why do you know your body fat % fcs

yeah but to what extent does it actually affect how good you are on a footy field? people make way too much out of this sort of thing, why do you know your body fat % fcs

Firstly, i know my body fat % because my trainer at the gym monitors it, and because weight is not the best indicator of health given my body type. Using standard BMI tests i would be deemed to be overweight, so body fat% is the better indicator of fitness.

Anyway, from the time my body filled out and I got physically stronger even in a game like basketball there was a noticeable difference in how I was/am able to play. Previously the older/stronger players could easily bump or push me out of the way. I would lose balance much easier when getting bumped, then i do now. So overall, now that i am stronger and have filled out, I am able to hold my position better, push back and actually use my size and strength to my advantage. My skills may not have changed much, but my ability to use those skills effectively has improved dramatically compared to when i was an 18/19yo playing against men.

So, from my experience, body size and strength make a significant difference in sport, whether it be basketball or football. For taller people it takes longer for the body to develop. So we should expect that with Jack's extra 3cm he will take a little longer to develop physically then Hurley. Once his body is stronger, then he will be able to utilise his skill set more effectively.

Watts is clearly superior by foot and by hand. The issue is that he doesn't get enough of the ball to demonstrate this. He also has the bigger tank, and better agility than Hurley. In reality i think Jack has a more diverse skill set than Hurley, while Hurley is more effective at utilising his core skills.

IMO toughness can be developed because it's mostly got to do with mental state. Jack has grown up primarily playing basketball where you use your agility to out manoeuvre players. He has not been exposed to the same type of training that Hurley had growing up, as he did not spend the same amount of Hurley in the TAC Cup System. Had Jack spent as much time in the system as Hurley I think Jack would be much more advanced physically than he is currently, and probably more effective as well.

People are not born tough, their environment shapes them to become that way.

lets not resurrect the "basketball" excuse again. He's been playing football since he was a tacker. He knows its a contact sport ok.

its amazing the excuses people come up with for Jack

unused potential is not worth a pinch of shyte

he needs to start showing more improvement, more often, more quicker (sic)

IMO, no. You are born with toughness/hardness/desire for a contest, or you are not.

Brad Green says hi.

lets not resurrect the "basketball" excuse again. He's been playing football since he was a tacker. He knows its a contact sport ok.

its amazing the excuses people come up with for Jack

unused potential is not worth a pinch of shyte

he needs to start showing more improvement, more often, more quicker (sic)

My main point for the reference to basketball was that compared to Hurley, Watts has not had the same amount of time training at higher level of football that Hurley has. This is because he spent a large portion of his youth playing basketball at an elite (state) level.

Therefore, as he gets exposed to more and more football preseasons and training, his approach to the game should change.

I've made excuse after excuse after excuse for Watts, just like many of you have in this thread, but I also recognise that there are worrying signs and that I'd be a fool to deny them.

If Watts ends up being a star, which is why he was drafted at pick 1, he's coming from a looooong way back. At his age, yes all of 20, I can't remember any key forward ever coming from as far back to go on and be a genuine AFL great. People often site Nick Riewoldt when talking about Watts, but Riewoldt won the NAB Rising Star and a B&F in his second year. The comparison is absurd.

Watts' lack of any physicality and the way he looks so unlikely in pack marking contests is of major concern. I think the most surprised person at the G when he took his terrific contested mark against Hawthorn was himself.

I see a good AFL player, but the odds are stacked against him being the star we craved.

I FEEL LIKE I HAVE TO YELL THIS! HE IS 20 YEARS OLD!!!! WORRYING SIGNS?!?

ANDREW KRAKOURER IS 28 AND JUST CAME OUT OF JAIL AND PEOPLE BLOW SMOKE UP HIS BUM FOR DEVELOPING LAST YEAR.

CHILL OUT!

My main point for the reference to basketball was that compared to Hurley, Watts has not had the same amount of time training at higher level of football that Hurley has. This is because he spent a large portion of his youth playing basketball at an elite (state) level.

Therefore, as he gets exposed to more and more football preseasons and training, his approach to the game should change.

His approach should change now. That's a horrible excuse you're giving him not to attack the footy with gusto.

Brad Green says hi.

People don't remember 2008, let alone the formative years of our captain when he shied away from contact and didn't look for it the way Jack did last year.

The Hacks at the Hun would like to thank you all for all the material they need to blow up this ridiculous comparison into a feature down the track.

Nutbean - sorry to say this but Stephanie is a C-grader (I have not seen here finger-paint but I will back my assertion with no fact but loads of vitriol)

i remember last year around the same time when Nic Nat was having a good start to the year, the same stupid debate came up "Watts or Nic Nat".

There is not much talk about Nic Nat these days...

watts isnt as good as hurley right now??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fEjJ4Ecy9Q

If my Grandma was in the 08 draft i would have taken her before Watts.

Forget Watts.

Can we get Gotzy75 on here to replace Gotzy15?

lets not resurrect the "basketball" excuse again. He's been playing football since he was a tacker. He knows its a contact sport ok.

its amazing the excuses people come up with for Jack

unused potential is not worth a pinch of shyte

he needs to start showing more improvement, more often, more quicker (sic)

I agree DC and at Casey over the next two weeks.

Will they play on each other at the Melb V Ess game?

I hope so

I FEEL LIKE I HAVE TO YELL THIS! HE IS 20 YEARS OLD!!!! WORRYING SIGNS?!?

ANDREW KRAKOURER IS 28 AND JUST CAME OUT OF JAIL AND PEOPLE BLOW SMOKE UP HIS BUM FOR DEVELOPING LAST YEAR.

CHILL OUT!

Gee I hope this debate is not as hot when he is a 27 yr old!!

Gee I hope this debate is not as hot when he is a 27 yr old!!

Or when he is coming out of the big house...

...ah the joy of being on the end of a hard working team where nearly all the players are in form, Hurley must be loving every second of it.........

Melbourne are misfiring on quite a few cylinders at the moment. Jack Watts included , as Bailey goies about tuning the engine, replacing a part with a Gys here and a Wonna there.....should be purring mid season....

I distinctly remember Jack R at Richmond was going to explode this year and be even better, not at the moment because they can't get the ball to him and he is being tripled teamed...

Jack Watts is learning every game, he is working on different aspects of his game etc etc.......just be patient...

My favourite moment of Hurley proving his love for physical contact was when he bashed a cab driver over 13 dollars.