Prime Reality

[rpfc 28,386]

Davey, Moloney, MacDonald, Jones, Bate, Dunn, Jamar, Rivers, and Batram are the only players in the 'prime' of their footballing careers (23+ year old players with over 70 games worth of experience as a rough rule - would love people to take issue with it)

Green is extending his prime as very good players do.

But with this we see why we had our rebuild.

Davey, Jamar, and Green are our established stars out there (Frawley becoming AA in his 4th year is a seductive phenomenon, but nowhere near the norm).

The other 6 have their moments but haven't put it together long enough to be considered with the previous 4. Some of those 6 players simply won't make it much further.

The rest are kids.

And here we have the issue - good sides, not flag-winning sides, but good, solid sides that are consistent and at their most professional have a better class of established, experienced players than we do.

Thankfully, Bailey and Co. knew this would be the case and made the foundation for flag in a youth that hasn't seen the experience necessary to push for that flag.

I expect us to improve in some areas this year but still have a focus on getting our talented youth out there at the expense of results.

Because we don't give a frack about finishing 8th and bombing out in the first week, we want to build for something bigger down the track.

[Eth 4]

Spot on, good post.

There's too much MFCSS around here.

[Debamboozle 27]

Excellent, excellent post.

We are all impatient and desperate for success but need to temper expectations. I felt so depressed watching the last couple of praccy games because I realised we are still a looong way off.

We have most of the talent on the list (flag core) but need 3-4 more years of development before we start featuring regularly in Preliminary Finals. From there you hope all clicks and you can snag a flag.

The club is working to a plan (team of the decade) and it involves getting top end draft talent (tick) and putting medical and sport science resources into them (half tick ie debt demolition and now start to re-invest in the footy dept/player development). The latter takes years to come to fruition. Collingwood has spent the best part of a decade raising football dept spending to get an edge and it finally paid off last year. The final bit requires patience on behalf of everyone - building the players games experience together. Regarding the recent Tim Harrinton article, Collingwood and Hawthorn are the only two Premiers out of the last 10 who didn't have an average of 128 games per player.

For all the wrist slashing and player blame after our recent losses, I personally think Strauss, Blease, Watts, Morton, Bennell etc will be playing in our Preliminary Final window over most of the 6 players mentioned above... One preseason does not make a player but many people on this sight had written off Maric. Other notable write offs include Sylvia, Jamar, Garland and Frawley....

Gary Ablett took at least six years to become an elite midfielder. Collingwood used Lockyer, OBree, Presti, etc as experienced players while getting game time into Thomas, Pendlebury, Shaw and Swan. There are heaps more examples.

Edited March 13, 2011 by Debamboozle

[Clanger King 9]

Too many excuses around here I say... Sick of being patient.... Only been waiting 50 odd years for a premiership. It's time to delivery, we haven't played finals in 5 years and I don't think we're going to this year. How longs it going to be between finals appearances? 7-8 years that's pathetic. Wouldn't be excepted at other clubs.

[Roost It 1,434]

Too many excuses around here I say... Sick of being patient.... Only been waiting 50 odd years for a premiership. It's time to delivery, we haven't played finals in 5 years and I don't think we're going to this year. How longs it going to be between finals appearances? 7-8 years that's pathetic. Wouldn't be excepted at other clubs.

And another clanger from the clanger king.

[45HG 1,539]

But where will our improvement come from?

[1858 285]

Might as well throw Warnock into that "prime" group rp. At 26yrs and 51 games I can't see him dramatically improving over the next 19 games (should he play them).

But yeah, overall some much needed perspective in your post.

[old dee 23,788]

Davey, Moloney, MacDonald, Jones, Bate, Dunn, Jamar, Rivers, and Batram are the only players in the 'prime' of their footballing careers (23+ year old players with over 70 games worth of experience as a rough rule - would love people to take issue with it)

Green is extending his prime as very good players do.

But with this we see why we had our rebuild.

Davey, Jamar, and Green are our established stars out there (Frawley becoming AA in his 4th year is a seductive phenomenon, but nowhere near the norm).

The other 6 have their moments but haven't put it together long enough to be considered with the previous 4. Some of those 6 players simply won't make it much further.

The rest are kids.

And here we have the issue - good sides, not flag-winning sides, but good, solid sides that are consistent and at their most professional have a better class of established, experienced players than we do.

Thankfully, Bailey and Co. knew this would be the case and made the foundation for flag in a youth that hasn't seen the experience necessary to push for that flag.

I expect us to improve in some areas this year but still have a focus on getting our talented youth out there at the expense of results.

Because we don't give a frack about finishing 8th and bombing out in the first week, we want to build for something bigger down the track.

So when is "down the track"?

1 year, 2 years, 3 years ?

It is 44 years and counting By your reckoning do we have a chance before 50 comes up?

[45HG 1,539]

So when is "down the track"?

1 year, 2 years, 3 years ?

It is 44 years and counting By your reckoning do we have a chance before 50 comes up?

Are you a Saints fan?

[old dee 23,788]

Are you a Saints fan?

No but I carn't count 46 years and counting how does that grab you.

Worse than I thought!

50 now looks a hard number to achieve!

Think I will open a red and watch somthing a little more cheerful like Japan.

[beelzebub 23,351]

The OP gives us a view that maybe we ought not expect too much.

Others contend that hey ..its been 47 years ( yes thats the correct number) since we grabbed any silverware of real note and maybe enoughs enough.

Theres simply two main schools of thought.. bide outr time , be patient and it will come...the other.. f@#* this I want it now !!

Some may contend its a glass half full versus half empty debate..others stil may suggest theres no glass ..or if so , no water !!

we have some good players...some emerging good players.. , some players who ought to be good players but arent.. and some dead wood.

Yes folks..were a football team, and we're all that goes along with that.

I perfectly understand the frustrations expressed by many here. I have some of my own. I honestly see this year as a litmus year. I dont expect to go too far beyond the second week of finals but i do expect to at least get that far. if we dont its really all for nought...

There are many at the club, both players and staff who might well consider themselves on borrowed time unless success gushes forth. quite deservedly so Bailey will and should consider himself the top of that pile. Following him a a half dozen or so players who just dont quite tip the balnce far enough to suggest they are anything but seat warmers for some emerging kids.

But what we're really about now is seeing results. Weve all had it up to here ( visual required..lol ) with promises, with soothing speeches with glimpses, with false dawns.And we're all probably sick to death of it. Bit like always the bridesmaid never the bride. Maybe our song ought to be "What about me" not "grand ol Flag" !!! LOL

But if this season is about realities then the most relevant one right now is the season proper has NOT started. Its all smoke and mirrors to date.

I do disagree withe the OP author in suggesting this year is not about results. Im telling you it is. If we arent well and truly in the top eight banging on the top 4 then what are we doing ( besides kidding ourselves )

Weve been building a decent cast and developing their roles but its well and truly time to get our act together. It might not be polished but it needs to be cohesive and deliver something. If we dont have this aspiration then why bother to compete. We'll just become a social club.

Baileys had 3 years to date to create something . We now have second to none facilites. We now have the monkeys off our back ( still close by but not on us) . We have a leader (s) who inspire others. There are NO excuses anymore.

[Roost It 1,434]

You have mastered the art of preseason waffle.

Injuries aside with the draw we have we should win 10 - 13 games and maybe a final. That is where expectations should be set.

[Nasher 33,613]

It is 44 years and counting By your reckoning do we have a chance before 50 comes up?

This rebuild is about three years old, not 46 (or 44).

I reckon it'll be interesting to read footy forums in 30 years time. Those of us under the age of about 30 have grown in the era of drafts and rebuilding, we understand that premiership opportunities come in cycles, and that you can't win one at the wrong point in the cycle in all but the most exceptional cases. This is what the draft and smaller playing lists have given us. The older generation who insist that teams should be in premiership contention 100% of the time (as it was pre-90s) and can't grasp why our winning the wooden spoon in 1978 has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on our current inability to be in premiership contention will eventually disappear.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Sorry guys but i've heard all the Rah Rah speeches before, I've seen the false dawns, the years in the wilderness, the "just give us one more year and we'll be ok" promises. The opening post has been repeated ad nauseam, I'm getting tired of 5 year plans, I know we have to be patient but I already have been and every time we get a new coach we get the same promise, wait, it will come.

I've already seen the team turned over countless times all with the same end result, another rebuild. I've seen other clubs with lesser players or perhaps similar players fire up and be competitive from the get go, I've seen other clubs win premierships with young sides, but when I ask why we can't do that I'm shouted down and told to be patient.

I've been patient, I want some action, I want our players to want to win a flag not just be competitive, I want to win games not quarters. I'm tired of seeing the same insipid performances year after year after year, I would love to see a side that went out and intimidated the opposition I'm sick of Melbourne being labeled soft and lacking passion.

I want to win games whether they are scratch games or for points I hate seeing us get beat, is that too much to ask?

[Sir Why You Little 37,034]

This rebuild is about three years old, not 46 (or 44).

Spot on Nasher....This club re started from almost zero back 3 years ago...so sorry guys the rebuild continues.

We must stay on the course we are on, which is why this Fevola rubbish with the Scorps Pi$$es me right off.

If we make 8th spot this year i will be rapt...If not well Life goes on..I still believe in Bails & the Board.

[Sir Why You Little 37,034]

Sorry guys but i've heard all the Rah Rah speeches before, I've seen the false dawns, the years in the wilderness, the "just give us one more year and we'll be ok" promises. The opening post has been repeated ad nauseam, I'm getting tired of 5 year plans, I know we have to be patient but I already have been and every time we get a new coach we get the same promise, wait, it will come.

I've already seen the team turned over countless times all with the same end result, another rebuild. I've seen other clubs with lesser players or perhaps similar players fire up and be competitive from the get go, I've seen other clubs win premierships with young sides, but when I ask why we can't do that I'm shouted down and told to be patient.

I've been patient, I want some action, I want our players to want to win a flag not just be competitive, I want to win games not quarters. I'm tired of seeing the same insipid performances year after year after year, I would love to see a side that went out and intimidated the opposition I'm sick of Melbourne being labeled soft and lacking passion.

I want to win games whether they are scratch games or for points I hate seeing us get beat, is that too much to ask?

But Robbie in all your years have you seen a better President than Jim Stynes and this board?

The Club was in the Garbage can when he took over.

This club is 3 years old with 152 years of history.

[old dee 23,788]

Sorry guys but i've heard all the Rah Rah speeches before, I've seen the false dawns, the years in the wilderness, the "just give us one more year and we'll be ok" promises. The opening post has been repeated ad nauseam, I'm getting tired of 5 year plans, I know we have to be patient but I already have been and every time we get a new coach we get the same promise, wait, it will come.

I've already seen the team turned over countless times all with the same end result, another rebuild. I've seen other clubs with lesser players or perhaps similar players fire up and be competitive from the get go, I've seen other clubs win premierships with young sides, but when I ask why we can't do that I'm shouted down and told to be patient.

I've been patient, I want some action, I want our players to want to win a flag not just be competitive, I want to win games not quarters. I'm tired of seeing the same insipid performances year after year after year, I would love to see a side that went out and intimidated the opposition I'm sick of Melbourne being labeled soft and lacking passion.

I want to win games whether they are scratch games or for points I hate seeing us get beat, is that too much to ask?

No it is not to much to ask robbief, exactly how I feel!!!!

And Nasher don't patronise us older supporters with your superior "young new football world" Jargon.

Football success has always gone in cycles.

Trouble is for the MFC we are so far in a 46 year cycle.

So in your view where are we in the current "modern era Cycle" ?

[Dee Fan 3,247]

This rebuild is about three years old, not 46 (or 44).

I reckon it'll be interesting to read footy forums in 30 years time. Those of us under the age of about 30 have grown in the era of drafts and rebuilding, we understand that premiership opportunities come in cycles, and that you can't win one at the wrong point in the cycle in all but the most exceptional cases. This is what the draft and smaller playing lists have given us. The older generation who insist that teams should be in premiership contention 100% of the time (as it was pre-90s) and can't grasp why our winning the wooden spoon in 1978 has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on our current inability to be in premiership contention will eventually disappear.

How many cycles do you reckon we've gone through without winning a flag? Why are some clubs able to continually play finals and win flags, like Hawthorn and say Essendon over the last 30 years, and we can't get a sniff?

Our history since the 1964 flag has been one of failure upon failure and unfortunately the same disturbing traits appear in each rebuild we do.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

But Robbie in all your years have you seen a better President than Jim Stynes and this board?

The Club was in the Garbage can when he took over.

This club is 3 years old with 152 years of history.

No i haven't but Jimmy has his own battle to fight now and can't get out there and give the players the lead on the field.

We have been a shyte club for years and Jimmy has given us back our respect, I will never forget that, but I want the players to perform their part in the play and I want them to do what he did on the field, put his body on the line week in week out.

If all our players had a heart as big as his I wouldn't be writing this.

[old dee 23,788]

But Robbie in all your years have you seen a better President than Jim Stynes and this board?

The Club was in the Garbage can when he took over.

This club is 3 years old with 152 years of history.

This is no way a put done of Jim Stynes he is magnificent.

But we have as Robbief says had a number of good people in the form of boards and Coaches ( eg Ron Barassi )

Take the helm at melbourne before and it has ended in tears.

History has a habit of repeating itself.

Lets hope This "3 year old club" gets it right!

[Range Rover 1,935]

This rebuild is about three years old, not 46 (or 44).

I reckon it'll be interesting to read footy forums in 30 years time. Those of us under the age of about 30 have grown in the era of drafts and rebuilding, we understand that premiership opportunities come in cycles, and that you can't win one at the wrong point in the cycle in all but the most exceptional cases. This is what the draft and smaller playing lists have given us. The older generation who insist that teams should be in premiership contention 100% of the time (as it was pre-90s) and can't grasp why our winning the wooden spoon in 1978 has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on our current inability to be in premiership contention will eventually disappear.

I'm 35, which is probably not much older than you Nasher. I understand your point but the idea that players should enter the season not believing they can win the flag really galls me. Giants can be upset, trends can be broken and at least 50% of any competitive sport is played between the ears.

Part of creating a winning culture is instilling a winning mentality. I don't think we should ever accept it as a fait accompli that we can't win the flag.

[Sir Why You Little 37,034]

No i haven't but Jimmy has his own battle to fight now and can't get out there and give the players the lead on the field.

We have been a shyte club for years and Jimmy has given us back our respect, I will never forget that, but I want the players to perform their part in the play and I want them to do what he did on the field, put his body on the line week in week out.

If all our players had a heart as big as his I wouldn't be writing this.

It takes time to teach these kids Robbie...some of our list have not even played a senior game yet.

This club was a Bee's todger from becoming the Gold Coast franchaise before Jimmy walked in so that's what i mean by a new club.

What went before him since the Northey era was a complete mess, so i do not put it in the same bracket, similiar between 1965-86 was a mess.

We had to start again...which is what is happening.

Remember what Schwabby said last year..."Pick a kid, put his number on your back and watch him grow"

[Nasher 33,613]

Why are some clubs able to continually play finals and win flags, like Hawthorn and say Essendon over the last 30 years, and we can't get a sniff?

These clubs aren't continually playing in finals and winning flags. They have crap years where they finish at or near the bottom just like everyone else. How were Hawthorn travelling in the early 00's - when they jagged the likes of Hodge, Roughhead and Franklin with early draft picks? The difference is that they have won flags when they have been at the top of their cycle. But to suggest that they're "continually contending" is garbage. Very rarely to clubs win flags out of phase - Hawthorn were the only ones to do it in the 00s, every other team won on the back of mature, stable playing lists.

How many cycles you've been through doesn't matter. I reckon even as a 20-something I've been through enough to know that it's a frustrating, long process, and that sometimes it's hard to be patient. But the only cycle that has any relevance to the current one is the current one. Whether you've been waiting 4 years or 40, the only thing that matters is that our list is not currently in flag-winning condition but there is a very clear plan to make sure it is in one, and the plan is very clear for all to see. But I guess that's less important than stomping your feet and saying "we've been putting up with this for 40 years rahrahrah".

[beelzebub 23,351]

Whos got a funny sense of deja vu ?

[Sir Why You Little 37,034]

This is no way a put done of Jim Stynes he is magnificent.

But we have as Robbief says had a number of good people in the form of boards and Coaches ( eg Ron Barassi )

Take the helm at melbourne before and it has ended in tears.

History has a habit of repeating itself.

Lets hope This "3 year old club" gets it right!

The Jimmy Board is not like previous Boards. Think back to 1952-53, that's where we are now-and we all know what that next decade was like.

The more loud support the team get this year will help fast track these young kids to get to the Top, most of our older stagnant players are now gone.

We still need to get games into kids, so they understand what to do when the battle is on out in the middle.

Edited March 13, 2011 by why you little