We have a long way to go.

[DeeZee 7,496]

After viewing the last two games, against Essendon and Brisbane.

I am dissapointed in the way we are looking so far.

After the abysmal effort against the dons, i thought we would come out with a bit more intensity against Brisbane.

After all we were playing the team most pundits back for the spoon this year.

The main concern seemed to be our backline in total disarray.

Brian Royal who has never coached a backline before is starting to worry me.

The total lack of defensive pressure not only in the backline but all over the ground.

Our onballers look short and slow.

Our lack of skill, ( The amount of hospital handpasses i saw out there today was too many to count).

Positives - Neville Jetta and Adam Maric should get a round one game, busted their asses all day and performed well.

Tapscott looks real likely type and i can see him getting a regular game sooner rather than later.

Jeremy Howe also looks a likely type up forward.

Good to see Ricky back and firing.

But its the backline that looks very ordinary and the middle where we were well beaten.

Sure we will get better with Chip back.

Scully was clean with his hands a real thinker.

Jones and Moloney try hard but they are far from A graders.

[DeezMan 4]

We won 0 pre-season games last year. 'Nuff said.

Players missing today vs Lions was just crazy. Look at positives - young and inexperienced players getting a crack.

[sylvinator 96]

The main concern seemed to be our backline in total disarray.

But its the backline that looks very ordinary and the middle where we were well beaten.

Green, Davey, Jurrah, Trengove, Grimes, Garland, McKenzie, Bartram, Frawley, Morton and Wona= 11 player arguably in our best 22.

- Add Green, Davey, Trengove, McKenzie and Morton + a match fit Scully and Gysberts and our midfield is stronger.

- Add Garland, Grimes, Bartram and Frawley and our defence is stronger

Yes, it would be better if we were winning pre-season games, but really it is so totally, utterly and completely unimportant in the context of a 24 week season, people should put it in perspective.

All teams should be aiming to peak in the latter half of the season. No team should be peaking in the early rounds.

We will win 10-12 games this year!

[DeeZee 7,496]

We had a best team available against the bombers and were just as bad.

They were without Watson, Hille, welsh, Brisbane had no Jonathon Brown.

Its just the effort looks second rate.

[Tony Tea 2,816]

[jayceebee31 768]

We had a best team available against the bombers and were just as bad.

They were without Watson, Hille, welsh, Brisbane had no Jonathon Brown.

Its just the effort looks second rate.

The last two weeks also showed another gaping hole. I say no Jamar no Melbourne. No onewithin cooee comes near to Jamar. Hope he stays sound for a very long time.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

We had a best team available against the bombers and were just as bad.

They were without Watson, Hille, welsh, Brisbane had no Jonathon Brown.

Its just the effort looks second rate.

That is such a ridiculous post, we had plenty out last week and today AS IS CLEARLY WRITTEN IN THE POST EARLIER IN THE THREAD we were missing 11 of our 22

What happened today is of zero importance

[Dee Fan 3,247]

After viewing the last two games, against Essendon and Brisbane.

I am dissapointed in the way we are looking so far.

After the abysmal effort against the dons, i thought we would come out with a bit more intensity against Brisbane.

After all we were playing the team most pundits back for the spoon this year.

The main concern seemed to be our backline in total disarray.

Brian Royal who has never coached a backline before is starting to worry me.

The total lack of defensive pressure not only in the backline but all over the ground.

Our onballers look short and slow.

Our lack of skill, ( The amount of hospital handpasses i saw out there today was too many to count).

Positives - Neville Jetta and Adam Maric should get a round one game, busted their asses all day and performed well.

Tapscott looks real likely type and i can see him getting a regular game sooner rather than later.

Jeremy Howe also looks a likely type up forward.

Good to see Ricky back and firing.

But its the backline that looks very ordinary and the middle where we were well beaten.

Sure we will get better with Chip back.

Scully was clean with his hands a real thinker.

Jones and Moloney try hard but they are far from A graders.

We were terrible today we have very poor skills and just cannot take a mark. Jack has to learn to put his hands out in front and not try the chest mark and when he attempts a mark in a pack he must remember to have his hands above his head not by his side.

I can't remember when we last won "A" clearance let alone the majority of clearances and Jones continues to try and break tackles only to get caught and give some terrible handpass and sell someone else in the trouble. I know it was a practice match but that doesn't excuse the terrible skills shown today, there was no wind the ground was perfect and there were no excuses.

Our forward pressure is non existent, zero, zilch, they just strolled out of our forward line and just ran through us. Our backline was comprehensively beaten, and the worst thing we can do is to give the ball to either Joel Mac or Warnock and let them set up the play they both take too long then panic and turn it over.

Our forwards don't lead they just stand there and wait for someone to pass it to them. At one stage late in the last quarter one of ours had the ball streaming towards the forward line and there were three Melbourne players none of whom offered a lead so the ball was just kicked long over their heads hoping for the best, but guess what, we lost the race and it was cleared.

My biggest concern so far is the lack of any system or game plan and the inability of our players to mark or kick to position or chase. Did I mention that they just walked through our tackles?

Today was far more disappointing that the game against Essendon because it was some of our senior players that showed the worst skills.

[Demon Disciple 12,543]

i am disappointed with the loss and i feel that Bailey is simply not getting his plan to come across with the players. Whatever we want to achieve at training simply isn't being done on game-day (serious concern). However, looking at the list of outs, it isn't panic station just yet. Although, the likes of Mckenzie, Frawley and Morton won't be returning to the squad in a hurry. Without Frawley our back-line is a disaster and it highlights the rest of our back-men as sub afl level players. I will reserve judgement until after next weeks game against the Hawks/Eagles,as that game will be a full dress-rehearsal.

Not panic stations yet, but if i was Bailey, i would want the team to start performing at a respectable level very soon.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

Without Frawley, Grimes, Garland and Bartram our back-line is a disaster and it highlights the rest of our back-men as sub afl level players.

i think you forgot a few

[jayceebee31 768]

i am disappointed with the loss and i feel that Bailey is simply not getting his plan to come across with the players. Whatever we want to achieve at training simply isn't being done on game-day (serious concern). However, looking at the list of outs, it isn't panic station just yet. Although, the likes of Mckenzie, Frawley and Morton won't be returning to the squad in a hurry. Without Frawley our back-line is a disaster and it highlights the rest of our back-men as sub afl level players. I will reserve judgement until after next weeks game against the Hawks/Eagles,as that game will be a full dress-rehearsal.

Not panic stations yet, but if i was Bailey, i would want the team to start performing at a respectable level very soon.

Maybe if you came to the game or training you would see we are trying to have a second game plan when A does not work. Also, with so many out doesn't help. Get there and support your team.

[Longsufferingnomore 1,691]

I dont know if we should be looking at todays game in as much as whether the game plan was working but more to where the next level of players is at. Where are the newbies at the moment and what needs to be concentrated on there. Surely with so many seniors players out we cannot actually tell if "the game plan" is working. Why not look at the positives:

Ricky Pettard is a real focus for us;

Tapscott showed he can mix with the big boys with his great kicking and good positioning;

Howe and Nicholson looked likely;

Jetta/Maric what an improvement over last year;Jetta's pace and tackling;

Jamar still the best in the league;

Nathan Jones a better game this week than last week

Jake Spencer needs more time but obvious improvement from last year.

Like last week I was disappointed in our inability to stay on man and the ability of the opposition to break tackles.

I went today to watch Tapscott and how Tom came up after the media conference.

I was impressed with Luke and Tom needs more game time as well understand that he will now be the oppositions tagging target. It will be interesting to see how he reacts to the pressure on the field and off.

One observation MacDonald needs to get off the angry pills or just move on where Brisbane is concerned.

[praha 11,272]

IT'S. THE. PRE-SEASON.

Get the sand out of your [censored] and move on. The season starts in a few weeks.

God.

And Carlton won the pre-season in two wooden-spoon years.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Green, Davey, Jurrah, Trengove, Grimes, Garland, McKenzie, Bartram, Frawley, Morton and Wona= 11 player arguably in our best 22.

- Add Green, Davey, Trengove, McKenzie and Morton + a match fit Scully and Gysberts and our midfield is stronger.

- Add Garland, Grimes, Bartram and Frawley and our defence is stronger

Yes, it would be better if we were winning pre-season games, but really it is so totally, utterly and completely unimportant in the context of a 24 week season, people should put it in perspective.

All teams should be aiming to peak in the latter half of the season. No team should be peaking in the early rounds.

We will win 10-12 games this year!

Spot on sylv, your spot on. Jamar has a tendency to have foot problems with too much running on hard surfaces pre season, So He looks to me to approach Round1 @ around 75 - 80 % his Ideal fitness level. Spencer looks ready to get more much needed games as a lead Ruck, for him to find the self belief in his ability. He has got it, but he's doing what a young Jamar did, prior to his self realisation.

Many players were going, without making physical contact, it seems to get through to Round 1.

I wouldn't be to concerned, as some supporters seem, about the form & intensity today. It looked like the Main focus was trying different methods of bringing the ball out of defence.

I think when we put a first 21 together on Match day, it will be there abouts. We won't make huge improvements like 6th spot, IMO as we've shed some experince, for more In-experience, But we will have more immature class on show.

I still think we're about 9th - 8th ish.

[ucanchoose 1,816]

The main concern seemed to be our backline in total disarray.

I read to here then gave up. We were missing Garland, Grimes, Bartram and Frawley from our best 6 defensemen. 4 OF 6!!!!!!!!!!! What were your expecting to see today? Miracles? Tapscott was good and might get a game which was nice to see. The rest played like we expect them to. Rivers can't kick (or think about what he's doing with the ball in general) and Macdonald has brain explosions.

Gee....... Tell me something I don't know

[Harrisonrules 273]

Yes it's just pre-season. But why does our system fall apart so often. Brisbane were tipped for w spoon but played beautifully. People don't like it being said, but Voss and Hird have displayed greater effectiveness with their teams.

Our best team is considerably better than today, Petterd and Maric are going to be two great small forward to add to Watts, Jurrah, Dunn - our best section.

I enjoyed most of our young kids, along way off but I felt most showed they would get a run in the not to distant future, Evans, Nicholson, MacDonald, Howe (if he doesn't kill himself) Cook, Tapscott.. go boys.

BUT THE BEST THING TO COME OUT OF TODAYS GAME WAS THAT MORE MELBOURNE DELUSION BALLOONS WERE BURST. THE ONLY WAY FORWARD IS WITH FEET FIRMLY ON GROUND.....

That's my say, now back to the real world

[ucanchoose 1,816]

Brisbane were tipped for w spoon but played beautifully.

They couldn't kick and we had a backline/midfield half of which were skinny little kids. There general field kicking was abysmal at times. Broke us apart more often with chain of good handballs (usually included black)

They'll be lucky to finish outside the bottom 4 mark that down (much to the disgust of the idiot sitting next to me today who sounded like they had a top 4 spot in the bag!)

I'm not sure Voss can coach himself out of a paperbag when it matters. Staker in the forward line shows what a dodgy forward line they will have. One of the biggest hacks on their list

[dee-luded 2,959]

Yes it's just pre-season. But why does our system fall apart so often. Brisbane were tipped for w spoon but played beautifully. People don't like it being said, but Voss and Hird have displayed greater effectiveness with their teams.

Our best team is considerably better than today, Petterd and Maric are going to be two great small forward to add to Watts, Jurrah, Dunn - our best section.

I enjoyed most of our young kids, along way off but I felt most showed they would get a run in the not to distant future, Evans, Nicholson, MacDonald, Howe (if he doesn't kill himself) Cook, Tapscott.. go boys.

BUT THE BEST THING TO COME OUT OF TODAYS GAME WAS THAT MORE MELBOURNE DELUSION BALLOONS WERE BURST. THE ONLY WAY FORWARD IS WITH FEET FIRMLY ON GROUND.....

That's my say, now back to the real world

Steady on ther Harrison, don't go bursting too many Delusion Balloons. We've got to have some, or the ship may sail over the edge.

[Grandson of a gun 276]

As i said in another thread:

People who are bemoaning the skill level, lack of pressure, poor delivery, lack of structure or targets need to realise a few things. It is not just a case that we had 10 of our best 22 out of the team today. It was that the 10 players who were playing in their place were made up mostly of blokes who've never played AFL or have only played very few games. Many rave about the performances of Howe, Cook, Nicholson, Evans, McDonald and Nicholson however from a brutally honest perspective, none of them are yet up to it. They did some nice things but often fumbled under pressure, missed targets, didn't apply the required pressure and don't have big engines by AFL standards. All of these things can and will improve with time and training but all are reasons why we looked so bad.

In turn it puts pressure on the rest of the team because of the poor use of the ball.

With many to come back in the side this will improve greatly. It is just the pre-season, it has absolutely no bearing on the season as a whole.

Don't take much away if anything other than perhaps a little more love for Tappy...

[Adzman 2,154]

The "panic" button is not allowed to be pressed during the pre-season.

Feel free to hit it if we drop the first few games of the regular season.

[Je Roos Salem 661]

I was really disappointed with Rivers today. WEll beaten by Mitch Clark and made a couple of terrible turnovers in defence. Don't worry, at our strongest I think we are a top 8 team. Forget our nab challenge game. The amount of experience sitting in the stands around me was great

[Juicebox 633]

IT'S. THE. PRE-SEASON.

Get the sand out of your [censored] and move on. The season starts in a few weeks.

God.

And Carlton won the pre-season in two wooden-spoon years.

Them some wise words.

[Guest DeesPower]

I thought there were a few positives. Jetta was our best today and seems to have added intensity particularly in his tackling tohis game of speed and elusiveness. I thought he might fall by the wayside but now think he might make it. Tapscott showed all the promise his reputation commands. Interestingly, when you look at his highlight clip you see he has a reputation as not winning a huge amount of the ball but being very effective when he does. Since he has played most of his football in the forward area, we are playing him off half back, presumably to break the zone through his ultra long kicking. We saw a couple of times today how this might work, but without Jurrah down forward it fell through time and time again.

Both Martin and Watts were very ordinarry today which is a concern. They ended up with Watts on the wing and Cook at CHF that is how badly Jack played, though one thing that is becoming very obvious is that Watts is a much better player when Liam is also on the park. I suggest both of them will be much better when Ricky Petterd is also around.

I don't think Martin is up to the follower/forward role. He is simply not a good enough mark and most of his rucking is ineffective. We were much more effective with Spencer in the ruck and Jamar down forward. Spencer was our best ruckman today. Jamar for the first half won most of the taps but they nearly all went to opposition onballers. That is a concern, and shouldn't happen even though we were playing our inexperienced side. Most of our main midfield were playing: jones, Sylvia, scully, maloney.

The other concern to me was our field kicking. Time and time again it lead directly to turnovers, and the worst offenders weren't our juniors but senior players like rivers, Maloney, jones and macdonald. On that performance I doubt whether j macd will get a game in our first round. Someone needs to tell rivers to take more care hitting target in the backline. He has a history of clangers in the last line of defense, usually quite unnecessary ones, and for someone in the leadership group that is not acceptable, even in a pre-season practice match.

The old maxim if you train sloppy you play sloppy. We are in danger of believing our own propaganda about inevitable premierships etc. These last two games should be a wake up call.

[Mad_Melbourne 877]

look both this week and last week we tried to employ a full press defensive zone, and like anything, until it is worked out properly and practiced enough, it will not work out. The fact is that there were so many cheap marks by brisbane players running into gaps in the zone, and players refusing to move off their line to follow the lead. If we are to implement a zone throughout the season, both midfielders and defenders need to know that they are responsible for the space around them and the opposition players leading through. But also we were missing about 8 or 9 walk up starters with four of these being defenders.

another thing, if we are going to win matches this season, warnock will not be playing and nor will bate, in my opinion neither can really cut the standard of afl, and look well of the pace and skill that is needed for afl level.

[Webber 10,650]

Perspective......there are 7 players at the top of the Demonland home page......2 of them played yesterday. The 'kids' and rookies were simply overwhelmed yesterday by the experience and physicality of a mature Lions unit, and this created irretrievable difficulties for our own more experienced players. The really good signs are Neville Jetta in the midfield. He is showing us his future, and will be an instant selection for round 1 in the absence of Jordie McKenzie. Addam Maric will also win first round selection, and on his current form, will keep Matthew Bate out of the side. Jeremy Howe is tantalising. Look apart from his high marking, and he has speed, skill and is a thumping kick. He may not get a gig straight up, but he will very soon, and it'll be lip-smacking.