Jump to content

THE TOM SCULLY TO GWS THREAD

Featured Replies

Hi Guys. First time poster!

2 Has put off contract negotiations for the simple reason is that his management have told him to wait until the CBA is finalized to see what is in the pool (TV rights & what % is distributed to the clubs), effectively the salary cap in 2013 & 2014.

Having said this it is incumbent on the club to put a good deal on the table come contract time as at the end of the day, you have a 10-12 year window at best to capitalize on earning potential.

For all of those that want him burnt at the stake & playing at Casey please bear in mind that he was HAPPY to sign for 3 years last August, but his management made the decision to play poker.

I guess the above is all pretty reasonable, and nothing earth-shattering really...

But there is something that just doesn't sit right with me about all this.

The kid is 19 years old, literally just started his dream of playing footy. If he thought about it long and hard, surely he'd come to the logical conclusion that he has at least 4 contracts and 13-15 years of earning potential ahead of him. If he signed today with Melbourne he'd get a really awesome contract, way above his market value (he really should not be earning more than Sylvia based on performances), and he'd be part of a team pushing for a premiership within 2-3 years.

I mean I understand that he's got to maximize his contract. But the way he's doing it is really cut-throat. He's leveraging the club to maximise his earning to the very last dollar. The way he's going about it is what I'd expect a 26 year old to do, knowing he's coming into his final seriously big contract. Scully's market value is huge at the moment. He'll get a massive long-term contract with Melbourne if he signs now. Waiting till August in order to maximise his earning potential by another few thousand dollars, at his age and experience, is just a little unsavoury for me.

Lastly, there have been many demons players who leveraged the club for huge contracts like Scully is now. They did it from their first contract, and every subsequent contract as well- fielding offers from rival clubs, forcing Melbourne to pay over the top to keep them. These guys, like Bruce, White and Yze really put the club to the sword to keep them, and i'd argue that were these guys more focused on team-success, we would have actually had a chance at a premiership in those years. The way Scully (his management) is going about it is just a little unsavoury, they are putting the club to the sword to pay overs for him, and it is the club who will suffer long term.

Geelong won 2 premierships for one main reason. They had 10 All Australians on their list, yet not one of them leveraged the club to pay top dollar for them. They put team success first. If guys like Scully, and then Grimes, Watts, Trengove, Jurrah etc, all prioritise getting top dollar, we will not be able to keep the best team possible and it will make us less likely to win a premiership.

Rant over.

 

Just writing that post infuriated me even more.

Facts are... Scully is strategizing to earn the greatest amount of dollars possible. He knows he'll get a rediculous contract now, but is waiting till August to maximise it an extra 50k, or an extra 100k whatever it is.

Sure some people might say- 'that's reasonable, any person would want to maximise their earnings, why should Scully be any different.' And that argument is a reasonable one.

HOWEVER , the fact is that we will NOT will a premiership if every one of our young stars demands to suck every last dollar possible out of our club. Premiership sides of the past have been able to field their outstanding teams because some great players weren't earning every last dollar.

Corey Enright will still finish his career a rich man, but he could have gone to essendon, been even richer, and not won his 2 premierships. Yet Scully will probably earn more money in 2012 as a 20 year old up-n-comer, than Enright (a multiple All Australian and star player) has at any time throughout his career.

Scully (and his management's) attitude does not sit right with me one bit.

I guess the above is all pretty reasonable, and nothing earth-shattering really...

But there is something that just doesn't sit right with me about all this.

The kid is 19 years old, literally just started his dream of playing footy. If he thought about it long and hard, surely he'd come to the logical conclusion that he has at least 4 contracts and 13-15 years of earning potential ahead of him. If he signed today with Melbourne he'd get a really awesome contract, way above his market value (he really should not be earning more than Sylvia based on performances), and he'd be part of a team pushing for a premiership within 2-3 years.

I mean I understand that he's got to maximize his contract. But the way he's doing it is really cut-throat. He's leveraging the club to maximise his earning to the very last dollar. The way he's going about it is what I'd expect a 26 year old to do, knowing he's coming into his final seriously big contract. Scully's market value is huge at the moment. He'll get a massive long-term contract with Melbourne if he signs now. Waiting till August in order to maximise his earning potential by another few thousand dollars, at his age and experience, is just a little unsavoury for me.

Lastly, there have been many demons players who leveraged the club for huge contracts like Scully is now. They did it from their first contract, and every subsequent contract as well- fielding offers from rival clubs, forcing Melbourne to pay over the top to keep them. These guys, like Bruce, White and Yze really put the club to the sword to keep them, and i'd argue that were these guys more focused on team-success, we would have actually had a chance at a premiership in those years. The way Scully (his management) is going about it is just a little unsavoury, they are putting the club to the sword to pay overs for him, and it is the club who will suffer long term.

Geelong won 2 premierships for one main reason. They had 10 All Australians on their list, yet not one of them leveraged the club to pay top dollar for them. They put team success first. If guys like Scully, and then Grimes, Watts, Trengove, Jurrah etc, all prioritise getting top dollar, we will not be able to keep the best team possible and it will make us less likely to win a premiership.

Rant over.

This is the one aspect that really hasnt been touched on here. The concept of best for the club vs best for the player. I remember Geelong players two years ago and if memory serves me right, Essendon during their heyday taking paycuts to keep their squad together.

I am hoping that money is not the number one motivating factor and a compromise is available where both player and club are both happy.

 

I do wondewr just how much is Scully driven and how much Velocity driven. Given a change in manager might there be a shift ( if small) in stance ? Maybe not.

He was all up for signing until Velocity put the brakes on. Whilst their view is to wait for TV to be sorted youd have to think being realistically it cant make differences to the nth power. i.e everyone in the biz would have an idea of the ball park for that figure ( TV rights ) and you ought to be able to work from that.

I agree with Sylvinator about the contracts ( re lifetime of player )

A happy balance needs to be struck...a realistic balance needs to be struck.

The reality is hes 90% potential..and 10% delivered. He ought not be in the elite bracket of pay yet (...let him justify it )

We have a whole team to accomodate !

Did anyone see Gangs of Oz on TV last night? It focused on the Middle Eastern gangs of Western Sydney. Not far from where the GWS team will be based. All I can say is, what an absolute hell hole! I understand that when events are condensed onto a single program on the box it can make events that were separate in time look like they happen more frequently but the amount of stabbings, drive-by shootings and thuggery in public areas were appalling. There was also the story of a policeman who asked/told a local gang member to pickup the glass from a bottle he smashed on the footpath. The policeman was later stalked while off duty, beaten and stabbed to death by the gang. There was also mention of violent gang members being made up of deserters from the Iraqi army.

I see why the AFL have given GWS two years to sign players over the one given to the GC, two years won't be enough. The area has issues that will last for generations, not just a couple of years.

I wish any player going there the best of luck.


Just got off the phone to an attendee of a bayside function that occurred this morning. Apparently there was some very positive chat in regard to retaining Tom. When Bailey was quizzed by the MC he responded that he was very confident in retaining Tom and that he would be in a dees jumper for the next 10 yrs.

we'll all sleep better now ^^^^^ , maybe :)

Just got off the phone to an attendee of a bayside function that occurred this morning. Apparently there was some very positive chat in regard to retaining Tom. When Bailey was quizzed by the MC he responded that he was very confident in retaining Tom and that he would be in a dees jumper for the next 10 yrs.

My posts on this issue I think have, shown me to be sitting right in the middle - I have no idea on what he will do - I am confident that we have the people to sell the dream and hopefully put a great offer forward - will it be enough ? i dont know. But I am hoping and praying that he will stay and will be patient and wait for the outcome - I wont get hysterical.

What I will keep re-iterating is that chatter from BOTH sides means nothing.I would expect Bails to say nothing less. However this is the same Bails who said "Cameron Bruce is a professional and I expect to see him at training on Monday"

 

Just got off the phone to an attendee of a bayside function that occurred this morning. Apparently there was some very positive chat in regard to retaining Tom. When Bailey was quizzed by the MC he responded that he was very confident in retaining Tom and that he would be in a dees jumper for the next 10 yrs.

I've just got back from it and Bailey was confident but he always is.

Jack Watts was there and he stated he now weighs 92.5kgs, not a bad effort when you consider he arrived weighing 83kgs. Also reminded by Bailey he is still only 19 something we sometimes seem to forget.

Just got off the phone to an attendee of a bayside function that occurred this morning. Apparently there was some very positive chat in regard to retaining Tom. When Bailey was quizzed by the MC he responded that he was very confident in retaining Tom and that he would be in a dees jumper for the next 10 yrs.

If I remember correctly, Bailey was certain that Bruce would be a Demon this year. Although I am quite sure Scully will remain a Demon, I wouldn't take great comfort in what Bailey says. I'm waiting to hear from Scully himself, but I don't expect this to happen until the end of the season.


What I will keep re-iterating is that chatter from BOTH sides means nothing.I would expect Bails to say nothing less. However this is the same Bails who said "Cameron Bruce is a professional and I expect to see him at training on Monday"

Beat me to it.

Good to hear so much positive rumblings about the situation.

Good to hear so much positive rumblings about the situation.

It seems as though the initial panic as a result of the Eddie rumour has now subsided and most posters have realized that he's probably full of $#!%. With the exception of ADC, that is.

This is the one aspect that really hasnt been touched on here. The concept of best for the club vs best for the player. I remember Geelong players two years ago and if memory serves me right, Essendon during their heyday taking paycuts to keep their squad together.

I am hoping that money is not the number one motivating factor and a compromise is available where both player and club are both happy.

One thing that I really don't understand in all of this, and this probably leads me to consider Sylvinator's post appropriating blame to Scully as being unreasonable, and that is, just how much control does a player manager have? Does he have to act on the player's instructions, or does the contract give the manager the power to make decisions regarding when to negotiate and when not to negotiate? Can management contracts muzzle players when it comes to commenting publicly on contract negotiations or quelling media/supporter speculation? I get the feeling that Scully is a pawn in a much bigger game, but I also get the feeling he will stay and that this is all about his manager getting him the best possible deal once the adjusted salary cap resulting from the TV Rights etc (is that right?) is a known factor.


surely the dog wags the tail ?

One thing that I really don't understand in all of this, and this probably leads me to consider Sylvinator's post appropriating blame to Scully as being unreasonable, and that is, just how much control does a player manager have? Does he have to act on the player's instructions, or does the contract give the manager the power to make decisions regarding when to negotiate and when not to negotiate? Can management contracts muzzle players when it comes to commenting publicly on contract negotiations or quelling media/supporter speculation? I get the feeling that Scully is a pawn in a much bigger game, but I also get the feeling he will stay and that this is all about his manager getting him the best possible deal once the adjusted salary cap resulting from the TV Rights etc (is that right?) is a known factor.

I question sylvinator on the Scully wanted to sign but his management didnt - like all managers, lawyers , accountants etc they act on your behalf ( unless its illegal). That just doesnt hold water for me.

Here is a rhetorical question - more a rhetorical thought. It was reported in the velocity change of management article that they had/were going to speak to Tom and his father. How much influence does his father have ? His father is not at the club 5 days a week training and making friends with the other players. I know that the club does schmooze the immediate family but it is easier for a father to divorce himself from the emotion of a decision than it is for a player. My logic again tells me that it would be easier for a father to be more influenced by financial inducements rather than the young son who experiences the mateship of the almost full time career as a footballer mixing with your team-mates.

I'm not being mischevious ( and will cop a blast i am sure !) - just making sure this topic is talked to death.

Max Gawn

He's leveraging the club to maximise his earning to the very last dollar.

Scully is strategizing to earn the greatest amount of dollars possible.

The whole Scully saga is so far based on unfounded rumour and some oil poured on the fire by media performers with vested interest, such as McGuire and Sheedy. Yet you are making the above statements as if they are facts and casting aspersions on Scully's motives. For all we know, Scully himself may be doing nothing of the sort. These sort of statements make Scully look like a mercenary when the opposite is most likely true.

(On the other hand, what's wrong with maximising your earnings? That's the whole reason the doomsayers are speculating he'll go to GWS.)

He deserves to look after himself and if the post about him wanting to set himself up with a home is correct then that shows he is sensible.

Is there any demon financier out there who can help him get over the bank isssue?

The more support we give him the longer he will be with the club.

All clubs face the cap issue at some stage and compromises on that will have to be made unless you are GWS.

I now think the fact he is waiting on the negotiations over player payments is a good sign he wouldn't be factoring that in on a GWS offer.


Just writing that post infuriated me even more.

Facts are... Scully is strategizing to earn the greatest amount of dollars possible. He knows he'll get a rediculous contract now, but is waiting till August to maximise it an extra 50k, or an extra 100k whatever it is.

Sure some people might say- 'that's reasonable, any person would want to maximise their earnings, why should Scully be any different.' And that argument is a reasonable one.

HOWEVER , the fact is that we will NOT will a premiership if every one of our young stars demands to suck every last dollar possible out of our club. Premiership sides of the past have been able to field their outstanding teams because some great players weren't earning every last dollar.

Corey Enright will still finish his career a rich man, but he could have gone to essendon, been even richer, and not won his 2 premierships. Yet Scully will probably earn more money in 2012 as a 20 year old up-n-comer, than Enright (a multiple All Australian and star player) has at any time throughout his career.

Scully (and his management's) attitude does not sit right with me one bit.

Does it occur to you at all that Tom Scully's worth to both the MFC and GWS could be vastly different by the end of the 2011 season??

An entire season is still ahead.

FCS let the kid play the season out and then sign his contract.

This thread is becoming totally repetitive now...Dull.

Why sign a contract in the environment of a CBA that will be superceded soon?

The pool might be similar, or it might be a helluva lot more, which means that the cap may be raised (the AFLPA are pushing for this).

Velocity are doing the right thing by their client. Scully at market (which would be lucky to get) might get $50k more purely on the new CBA arising from the extra TV money.

TBH, the more I think about it, the better the approach that Velocity is taking.

Not as an MFC supporter, but as a professional business representing their client.

Why sign a contract in the environment of a CBA that will be superceded soon?

You could however sign a contract with contingencies allowing for an increase.

 

Look, if Sheedy 'forces' us to pay Scully $800k he's won hasn't he?

If he get's Scully he's won as well. It's not his money after all but part of the AFL's $100m.

He has an incentive to stir things up and he's doing it. After 1215 posts there's not much more to say is there....

You could however sign a contract with contingencies allowing for an increase.

give the man the cupie doll!!

My thought are you could sign a heads of agreement binding the player to the club thwarting all the vultures whilst allowing scope for the particular parties. Everyones happy ( that matters..i.e screw the other clubs!!)


Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Featured Content

  • PREVIEW: Geelong

    "It's officially time for some alarm bells. I'm concerned about the lack of impact from their best players." This comment about one of the teams contesting this Friday night’s game came earlier in the week from a so-called expert radio commentator by the name of Kane Cornes. He wasn’t referring to the Melbourne Football Club but rather, this week’s home side, Geelong.The Cats are purring along with 1 win and 2 defeats and a percentage of 126.2 (courtesy of a big win at GMHBA Stadium in Round 1 vs Fremantle) which is one win more than Melbourne and double the percentage so I guess that, in the case of the Demons, its not just alarm bells, but distress signals. But don’t rely on me. Listen to Cornes who said this week about Melbourne:- “They can’t run. If you can’t run at speed and get out of the contest then you’re in trouble.

      • Love
      • Thanks
      • Like
    • 0 replies
    Demonland
  • NON-MFC: Round 04

    Round 4 kicks off with a blockbuster on Thursday night as traditional rivals Collingwood and Carlton clash at the MCG, with the Magpies looking to assert themselves as early-season contenders and the Blues seeking their first win of the season. Saturday opens with Gold Coast hosting Adelaide, a key test for the Suns as they aim to back up their big win last week, while the Crows will be looking to keep their perfect record intact. Reigning wooden spooners Richmond have the daunting task of facing reigning premiers Brisbane at the ‘G and the Lions will be eager to reaffirm their premiership credentials after a patchy start. Saturday night sees North Melbourne take on Sydney at Marvel Stadium, with the Swans looking to build on their first win of the season last week against a rebuilding Roos outfit.
    Sunday’s action begins with GWS hosting West Coast at ENGIE Stadium, a game that could get ugly very early for the visitors. Port Adelaide vs St Kilda at Adelaide Oval looms as a interesting clash, with both clubs form being very hard to read. The round wraps up with Fremantle taking on the Western Bulldogs at Optus Stadium in what could be a fierce contest between two sides with top-eight ambitions. Who are you tipping this week and what are the best results for the Demons besides us winning?

    • 0 replies
    Demonland
  • CASEY: Gold Coast

    For a brief period of time in the early afternoon of yesterday, the Casey Demons occupied top place on the Smithy’s VFL table. This was only made possible by virtue of the fact that the team was the only one in this crazy competition to have played twice and it’s 1½ wins gave it an unassailable lead on the other 20 teams, some of who had yet to play a game.

      • Clap
    • 0 replies
    Demonland
  • REPORT: Gold Coast

    In my all-time nightmare game, the team is so ill-disciplined that it concedes its first two goals with the courtesy of not one, but two, fifty metre penalties while opening its own scoring with four behinds in a row and losing a talented youngster with good decision-making skills and a lethal left foot kick, subbed off in the first quarter with what looks like a bad knee injury. 

      • Clap
      • Love
      • Thanks
    • 0 replies
    Demonland
  • PODCAST: Gold Coast

    The Demonland Podcast will air LIVE on Monday, 31st March @ the all new time of 8:00pm. Join Binman, George & I as we analyse the Demons loss at the MCG to the Suns in the Round 03. Your questions and comments are a huge part of our podcast so please post anything you want to ask or say below and we'll give you a shout out on the show. If you would like to leave us a voicemail please call 03 9016 3666 and don't worry no body answers so you don't have to talk to a human.

      • Clap
      • Thanks
    • 69 replies
    Demonland