THE TOM SCULLY TO GWS THREAD

[sylvinator 96]

Hi Guys. First time poster!

2 Has put off contract negotiations for the simple reason is that his management have told him to wait until the CBA is finalized to see what is in the pool (TV rights & what % is distributed to the clubs), effectively the salary cap in 2013 & 2014.

Having said this it is incumbent on the club to put a good deal on the table come contract time as at the end of the day, you have a 10-12 year window at best to capitalize on earning potential.

For all of those that want him burnt at the stake & playing at Casey please bear in mind that he was HAPPY to sign for 3 years last August, but his management made the decision to play poker.

I guess the above is all pretty reasonable, and nothing earth-shattering really...

But there is something that just doesn't sit right with me about all this.

The kid is 19 years old, literally just started his dream of playing footy. If he thought about it long and hard, surely he'd come to the logical conclusion that he has at least 4 contracts and 13-15 years of earning potential ahead of him. If he signed today with Melbourne he'd get a really awesome contract, way above his market value (he really should not be earning more than Sylvia based on performances), and he'd be part of a team pushing for a premiership within 2-3 years.

I mean I understand that he's got to maximize his contract. But the way he's doing it is really cut-throat. He's leveraging the club to maximise his earning to the very last dollar. The way he's going about it is what I'd expect a 26 year old to do, knowing he's coming into his final seriously big contract. Scully's market value is huge at the moment. He'll get a massive long-term contract with Melbourne if he signs now. Waiting till August in order to maximise his earning potential by another few thousand dollars, at his age and experience, is just a little unsavoury for me.

Lastly, there have been many demons players who leveraged the club for huge contracts like Scully is now. They did it from their first contract, and every subsequent contract as well- fielding offers from rival clubs, forcing Melbourne to pay over the top to keep them. These guys, like Bruce, White and Yze really put the club to the sword to keep them, and i'd argue that were these guys more focused on team-success, we would have actually had a chance at a premiership in those years. The way Scully (his management) is going about it is just a little unsavoury, they are putting the club to the sword to pay overs for him, and it is the club who will suffer long term.

Geelong won 2 premierships for one main reason. They had 10 All Australians on their list, yet not one of them leveraged the club to pay top dollar for them. They put team success first. If guys like Scully, and then Grimes, Watts, Trengove, Jurrah etc, all prioritise getting top dollar, we will not be able to keep the best team possible and it will make us less likely to win a premiership.

Rant over.

[sylvinator 96]

Just writing that post infuriated me even more.

Facts are... Scully is strategizing to earn the greatest amount of dollars possible. He knows he'll get a rediculous contract now, but is waiting till August to maximise it an extra 50k, or an extra 100k whatever it is.

Sure some people might say- 'that's reasonable, any person would want to maximise their earnings, why should Scully be any different.' And that argument is a reasonable one.

HOWEVER , the fact is that we will NOT will a premiership if every one of our young stars demands to suck every last dollar possible out of our club. Premiership sides of the past have been able to field their outstanding teams because some great players weren't earning every last dollar.

Corey Enright will still finish his career a rich man, but he could have gone to essendon, been even richer, and not won his 2 premierships. Yet Scully will probably earn more money in 2012 as a 20 year old up-n-comer, than Enright (a multiple All Australian and star player) has at any time throughout his career.

Scully (and his management's) attitude does not sit right with me one bit.

[nutbean 8,838]

I guess the above is all pretty reasonable, and nothing earth-shattering really...

But there is something that just doesn't sit right with me about all this.

The kid is 19 years old, literally just started his dream of playing footy. If he thought about it long and hard, surely he'd come to the logical conclusion that he has at least 4 contracts and 13-15 years of earning potential ahead of him. If he signed today with Melbourne he'd get a really awesome contract, way above his market value (he really should not be earning more than Sylvia based on performances), and he'd be part of a team pushing for a premiership within 2-3 years.

I mean I understand that he's got to maximize his contract. But the way he's doing it is really cut-throat. He's leveraging the club to maximise his earning to the very last dollar. The way he's going about it is what I'd expect a 26 year old to do, knowing he's coming into his final seriously big contract. Scully's market value is huge at the moment. He'll get a massive long-term contract with Melbourne if he signs now. Waiting till August in order to maximise his earning potential by another few thousand dollars, at his age and experience, is just a little unsavoury for me.

Lastly, there have been many demons players who leveraged the club for huge contracts like Scully is now. They did it from their first contract, and every subsequent contract as well- fielding offers from rival clubs, forcing Melbourne to pay over the top to keep them. These guys, like Bruce, White and Yze really put the club to the sword to keep them, and i'd argue that were these guys more focused on team-success, we would have actually had a chance at a premiership in those years. The way Scully (his management) is going about it is just a little unsavoury, they are putting the club to the sword to pay overs for him, and it is the club who will suffer long term.

Geelong won 2 premierships for one main reason. They had 10 All Australians on their list, yet not one of them leveraged the club to pay top dollar for them. They put team success first. If guys like Scully, and then Grimes, Watts, Trengove, Jurrah etc, all prioritise getting top dollar, we will not be able to keep the best team possible and it will make us less likely to win a premiership.

Rant over.

This is the one aspect that really hasnt been touched on here. The concept of best for the club vs best for the player. I remember Geelong players two years ago and if memory serves me right, Essendon during their heyday taking paycuts to keep their squad together.

I am hoping that money is not the number one motivating factor and a compromise is available where both player and club are both happy.

[beelzebub 23,342]

I do wondewr just how much is Scully driven and how much Velocity driven. Given a change in manager might there be a shift ( if small) in stance ? Maybe not.

He was all up for signing until Velocity put the brakes on. Whilst their view is to wait for TV to be sorted youd have to think being realistically it cant make differences to the nth power. i.e everyone in the biz would have an idea of the ball park for that figure ( TV rights ) and you ought to be able to work from that.

I agree with Sylvinator about the contracts ( re lifetime of player )

A happy balance needs to be struck...a realistic balance needs to be struck.

The reality is hes 90% potential..and 10% delivered. He ought not be in the elite bracket of pay yet (...let him justify it )

We have a whole team to accomodate !

[Guest melbman]

Did anyone see Gangs of Oz on TV last night? It focused on the Middle Eastern gangs of Western Sydney. Not far from where the GWS team will be based. All I can say is, what an absolute hell hole! I understand that when events are condensed onto a single program on the box it can make events that were separate in time look like they happen more frequently but the amount of stabbings, drive-by shootings and thuggery in public areas were appalling. There was also the story of a policeman who asked/told a local gang member to pickup the glass from a bottle he smashed on the footpath. The policeman was later stalked while off duty, beaten and stabbed to death by the gang. There was also mention of violent gang members being made up of deserters from the Iraqi army.

I see why the AFL have given GWS two years to sign players over the one given to the GC, two years won't be enough. The area has issues that will last for generations, not just a couple of years.

I wish any player going there the best of luck.

[Neita3000 37]

Just got off the phone to an attendee of a bayside function that occurred this morning. Apparently there was some very positive chat in regard to retaining Tom. When Bailey was quizzed by the MC he responded that he was very confident in retaining Tom and that he would be in a dees jumper for the next 10 yrs.

[beelzebub 23,342]

we'll all sleep better now ^^^^^ , maybe

[nutbean 8,838]

Just got off the phone to an attendee of a bayside function that occurred this morning. Apparently there was some very positive chat in regard to retaining Tom. When Bailey was quizzed by the MC he responded that he was very confident in retaining Tom and that he would be in a dees jumper for the next 10 yrs.

My posts on this issue I think have, shown me to be sitting right in the middle - I have no idea on what he will do - I am confident that we have the people to sell the dream and hopefully put a great offer forward - will it be enough ? i dont know. But I am hoping and praying that he will stay and will be patient and wait for the outcome - I wont get hysterical.

What I will keep re-iterating is that chatter from BOTH sides means nothing.I would expect Bails to say nothing less. However this is the same Bails who said "Cameron Bruce is a professional and I expect to see him at training on Monday"

Edited February 17, 2011 by nutbean

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Just got off the phone to an attendee of a bayside function that occurred this morning. Apparently there was some very positive chat in regard to retaining Tom. When Bailey was quizzed by the MC he responded that he was very confident in retaining Tom and that he would be in a dees jumper for the next 10 yrs.

I've just got back from it and Bailey was confident but he always is.

Jack Watts was there and he stated he now weighs 92.5kgs, not a bad effort when you consider he arrived weighing 83kgs. Also reminded by Bailey he is still only 19 something we sometimes seem to forget.

[Good Times Grimes 2,396]

Just got off the phone to an attendee of a bayside function that occurred this morning. Apparently there was some very positive chat in regard to retaining Tom. When Bailey was quizzed by the MC he responded that he was very confident in retaining Tom and that he would be in a dees jumper for the next 10 yrs.

If I remember correctly, Bailey was certain that Bruce would be a Demon this year. Although I am quite sure Scully will remain a Demon, I wouldn't take great comfort in what Bailey says. I'm waiting to hear from Scully himself, but I don't expect this to happen until the end of the season.

[Good Times Grimes 2,396]

What I will keep re-iterating is that chatter from BOTH sides means nothing.I would expect Bails to say nothing less. However this is the same Bails who said "Cameron Bruce is a professional and I expect to see him at training on Monday"

Beat me to it.

[H_T 3,043]

Keep posting HRR.

[Samsara 65]

Good to hear so much positive rumblings about the situation.

[Good Times Grimes 2,396]

Good to hear so much positive rumblings about the situation.

It seems as though the initial panic as a result of the Eddie rumour has now subsided and most posters have realized that he's probably full of $#!%. With the exception of ADC, that is.

[hardtack 10,537]

This is the one aspect that really hasnt been touched on here. The concept of best for the club vs best for the player. I remember Geelong players two years ago and if memory serves me right, Essendon during their heyday taking paycuts to keep their squad together.

I am hoping that money is not the number one motivating factor and a compromise is available where both player and club are both happy.

One thing that I really don't understand in all of this, and this probably leads me to consider Sylvinator's post appropriating blame to Scully as being unreasonable, and that is, just how much control does a player manager have? Does he have to act on the player's instructions, or does the contract give the manager the power to make decisions regarding when to negotiate and when not to negotiate? Can management contracts muzzle players when it comes to commenting publicly on contract negotiations or quelling media/supporter speculation? I get the feeling that Scully is a pawn in a much bigger game, but I also get the feeling he will stay and that this is all about his manager getting him the best possible deal once the adjusted salary cap resulting from the TV Rights etc (is that right?) is a known factor.

[beelzebub 23,342]

surely the dog wags the tail ?

[nutbean 8,838]

One thing that I really don't understand in all of this, and this probably leads me to consider Sylvinator's post appropriating blame to Scully as being unreasonable, and that is, just how much control does a player manager have? Does he have to act on the player's instructions, or does the contract give the manager the power to make decisions regarding when to negotiate and when not to negotiate? Can management contracts muzzle players when it comes to commenting publicly on contract negotiations or quelling media/supporter speculation? I get the feeling that Scully is a pawn in a much bigger game, but I also get the feeling he will stay and that this is all about his manager getting him the best possible deal once the adjusted salary cap resulting from the TV Rights etc (is that right?) is a known factor.

I question sylvinator on the Scully wanted to sign but his management didnt - like all managers, lawyers , accountants etc they act on your behalf ( unless its illegal). That just doesnt hold water for me.

Here is a rhetorical question - more a rhetorical thought. It was reported in the velocity change of management article that they had/were going to speak to Tom and his father. How much influence does his father have ? His father is not at the club 5 days a week training and making friends with the other players. I know that the club does schmooze the immediate family but it is easier for a father to divorce himself from the emotion of a decision than it is for a player. My logic again tells me that it would be easier for a father to be more influenced by financial inducements rather than the young son who experiences the mateship of the almost full time career as a footballer mixing with your team-mates.

I'm not being mischevious ( and will cop a blast i am sure !) - just making sure this topic is talked to death.

[Red Sox 2]

Max Gawn

[mauriesy 7,286]

He's leveraging the club to maximise his earning to the very last dollar.

Scully is strategizing to earn the greatest amount of dollars possible.

The whole Scully saga is so far based on unfounded rumour and some oil poured on the fire by media performers with vested interest, such as McGuire and Sheedy. Yet you are making the above statements as if they are facts and casting aspersions on Scully's motives. For all we know, Scully himself may be doing nothing of the sort. These sort of statements make Scully look like a mercenary when the opposite is most likely true.

(On the other hand, what's wrong with maximising your earnings? That's the whole reason the doomsayers are speculating he'll go to GWS.)

[Robbie57 2,020]

He deserves to look after himself and if the post about him wanting to set himself up with a home is correct then that shows he is sensible.

Is there any demon financier out there who can help him get over the bank isssue?

The more support we give him the longer he will be with the club.

All clubs face the cap issue at some stage and compromises on that will have to be made unless you are GWS.

I now think the fact he is waiting on the negotiations over player payments is a good sign he wouldn't be factoring that in on a GWS offer.

[Sir Why You Little 37,025]

Just writing that post infuriated me even more.

Facts are... Scully is strategizing to earn the greatest amount of dollars possible. He knows he'll get a rediculous contract now, but is waiting till August to maximise it an extra 50k, or an extra 100k whatever it is.

Sure some people might say- 'that's reasonable, any person would want to maximise their earnings, why should Scully be any different.' And that argument is a reasonable one.

HOWEVER , the fact is that we will NOT will a premiership if every one of our young stars demands to suck every last dollar possible out of our club. Premiership sides of the past have been able to field their outstanding teams because some great players weren't earning every last dollar.

Corey Enright will still finish his career a rich man, but he could have gone to essendon, been even richer, and not won his 2 premierships. Yet Scully will probably earn more money in 2012 as a 20 year old up-n-comer, than Enright (a multiple All Australian and star player) has at any time throughout his career.

Scully (and his management's) attitude does not sit right with me one bit.

Does it occur to you at all that Tom Scully's worth to both the MFC and GWS could be vastly different by the end of the 2011 season??

An entire season is still ahead.

FCS let the kid play the season out and then sign his contract.

This thread is becoming totally repetitive now...Dull.

[rpfc 28,381]

Why sign a contract in the environment of a CBA that will be superceded soon?

The pool might be similar, or it might be a helluva lot more, which means that the cap may be raised (the AFLPA are pushing for this).

Velocity are doing the right thing by their client. Scully at market (which would be lucky to get) might get $50k more purely on the new CBA arising from the extra TV money.

TBH, the more I think about it, the better the approach that Velocity is taking.

Not as an MFC supporter, but as a professional business representing their client.

Edited February 18, 2011 by rpfc

[mauriesy 7,286]

Why sign a contract in the environment of a CBA that will be superceded soon?

You could however sign a contract with contingencies allowing for an increase.

[jnrmac 20,058]

Look, if Sheedy 'forces' us to pay Scully $800k he's won hasn't he?

If he get's Scully he's won as well. It's not his money after all but part of the AFL's $100m.

He has an incentive to stir things up and he's doing it. After 1215 posts there's not much more to say is there....

[beelzebub 23,342]

You could however sign a contract with contingencies allowing for an increase.

give the man the cupie doll!!

My thought are you could sign a heads of agreement binding the player to the club thwarting all the vultures whilst allowing scope for the particular parties. Everyones happy ( that matters..i.e screw the other clubs!!)