It's a bummer, but I'm not that fussed. One player, even one like Chip, does not make the team. Warnock is a very capable stopper, although he doesn't give us the run from defence that Frawley does. He is more than capable of holding the forwards we'll be facing. I don't agree with the people saying he had a bad 201. He did some very good jobs for us, but was exposed because he isn't great with the ball in his hands. His smashing of Hall was one of the highlights of the season for me.

Anyway, the point is that while it robs us of some run, we have this covered. I think the loss of Petterd and LJ last year hurt us more.

  On 22/01/2011 at 09:55, RalphiusMaximus said:

It's a bummer, but I'm not that fussed. One player, even one like Chip, does not make the team. Warnock is a very capable stopper, although he doesn't give us the run from defence that Frawley does. He is more than capable of holding the forwards we'll be facing. I don't agree with the people saying he had a bad 201. He did some very good jobs for us, but was exposed because he isn't great with the ball in his hands. His smashing of Hall was one of the highlights of the season for me.

Anyway, the point is that while it robs us of some run, we have this covered. I think the loss of Petterd and LJ last year hurt us more.

That's right, it will be the number of important injuries that will be the key. We can still get off to a great start if we have Jurrah, Morton, Sylvia, Watts all available for round 1 unlike last year.

Also would be handy to have Blease, Strauss, Gysberts and Tapscott all up and running as they will put great pressure on the existing players to keep their spots.

  On 22/01/2011 at 09:09, Range Rover said:

If the 10 - 12 weeks assessment is accurate, then it's going to take him another 6 after that to regain full match fitness and re-build his muscular strength.

In that case we won't be seeing the best of Chip until round 7 or 8. A real bummer.

I hope they resist the temptation to bring him back too early, particularly if our backline isn't standing up without him. Give him all the time he needs to get it right.

10-12 weeks sounds a long lay-off for a pec injury.

Why do you assume the 10-12 weeks isn't conservative and doesn't include 6 weeks to regain full match-fitness and muscle strength?

I think it's foolish to assume the football dept would do anything but ensure he is 100% before putting him back on the field.

  On 22/01/2011 at 10:12, Bay Riffin said:

That's right, it will be the number of important injuries that will be the key. We can still get off to a great start if we have Jurrah, Morton, Sylvia, Watts all available for round 1 unlike last year.

Also would be handy to have Blease, Strauss, Gysberts and Tapscott all up and running as they will put great pressure on the existing players to keep their spots.

Whoever does take "Chip the gorrila keeper's" place will be under pressure from whoever doesn't get the nod (I am pressuming it is a choice out of Warnock and Martin for the proper FB position) and also the likely candidate will be under pressure to keep their place in the team outright from the impending return of Frawley himself.

Needless to say there is a lot of pressure to perform, so the motivation is there. At least we have an opportunity to see if our perceived defence depth is worth its salt. I've had my little hissy fit over Frawl's injury- broke a couple of pencils in my room- now I actually look forward to seeing how we deal with this.

Pressure coming for spots from all areas of the field will hopefully see improved team performance and hopefully less reliance on a dominant backline. Bring it on!

  On 22/01/2011 at 10:48, Keyser Söze said:

10-12 weeks sounds a long lay-off for a pec injury.

Why do you assume the 10-12 weeks isn't conservative and doesn't include 6 weeks to regain full match-fitness and muscle strength?

I think it's foolish to assume the football dept would do anything but ensure he is 100% before putting him back on the field.

The first part of your comment doesn't make sense. So it's a 6 week injury with 4-6 weeks of match fitness in the seniors or reserves factored on to it to bring it up to the 10 - 12 week total? Never heard of an injury assessment being done that way before.

And who is foolishly assuming anything regarding the football department? I merely stated my hope that they wouldn't. Not the same thing at all.

  On 22/01/2011 at 11:48, nostradeemus said:

Whoever does take "Chip the gorrila keeper's" place will be under pressure from whoever doesn't get the nod (I am pressuming it is a choice out of Warnock and Martin for the proper FB position) and also the likely candidate will be under pressure to keep their place in the team outright from the impending return of Frawley himself.

Needless to say there is a lot of pressure to perform, so the motivation is there. At least we have an opportunity to see if our perceived defence depth is worth its salt. I've had my little hissy fit over Frawl's injury- broke a couple of pencils in my room- now I actually look forward to seeing how we deal with this.

Pressure coming for spots from all areas of the field will hopefully see improved team performance and hopefully less reliance on a dominant backline. Bring it on!

Warnock is obviously the one, with the experience,,, but if reports are true that he's fined down, that would be interesting to see. It could come down out of those 2, to pre season form in the back half.

I hope Martin gets a go early, in some position in our team, as he's close to thin Ice, & I for one think he has a lot of talent, to still show,,, & he has the size & speed that our list could really use.

So I think he would be very handy at either or both ends, during the course of games, & as the spare ruck/follower.

  On 22/01/2011 at 09:09, Range Rover said:

If the 10 - 12 weeks assessment is accurate, then it's going to take him another 6 after that to regain full match fitness and re-build his muscular strength.

In that case we won't be seeing the best of Chip until round 7 or 8. A real bummer.

I hope they resist the temptation to bring him back too early, particularly if our backline isn't standing up without him. Give him all the time he needs to get it right.

It is my understanding that when a star gets injured and is reported out for "x" amount of weeks, that number is indicative of weeks from injury to resumption of duties and includes any subsequent rehab they will require. Acquisition of match fitness is usually done through the VFL or sometimes AFL if the player in question is good enough.

And it goes without saying we will not risk bringing him in too early. No matter how dire the situation is in the backline (hopefully not) there are other ways to plug a hole then to risk the welfare and longevity of one of our most promising players.

  On 22/01/2011 at 12:29, nostradeemus said:

It is my understanding that when a star gets injured and is reported out for "x" amount of weeks, that number is indicative of weeks from injury to resumption of duties and includes any subsequent rehab they will require. Acquisition of match fitness is usually done through the VFL or sometimes AFL if the player in question is good enough.

That's correct. 'X' weeks means 'X' weeks of not pulling on the boots in a competitive game. Match fitness and conditioning needs to then be obtained, which for players returning from long-term injuries usually takes quite a while.

Match fitness is obtained through playing matches. The injury timeline; the "X" quantity, represents the amount of weeks the player won't be expected to be playing. Once a player is in a position to be able to train etc to his full capacity he is deemed no longer injured, hence the "X" coefficient has been served.

In saying that, the 10-12 week timeframe is the estimation of when Chippa will be able to "pull his boots" back on again. Getting match fitness back is another story. Some players get it through the VFL. Being a FB and not a midfielder it could be argued Frawls could obtain his again through playing in the big leagues.

An injury of this duration is never good, obviously. However, it could be worse.

In Warnock we have a pretty capable defender who had, by the end of 2010, found himself on the sidelines. A few people mentioned lack of run, but Warnock was praised for developing that side of his game in the VFL so he may give us more drive than he has previously (that's clearly the hope).

As t_u pointed out, it's also handy that early on we have a bye and are opposed to some sides that are unlikely to be the strongest teams in 2011.

@ Range Rover: Regarding time to get 'match fit' after being able to resume training, six weeks seems excessive for a 10-12 week injury.

Re getting match fitness through Casey:

First up, VFL starts a week later, so the earliest he could play Casey would be April 2. Then, in a bit of an unfortunate coincidence, both Melb and Casey have byes the w/e of Apr 23.

Those lamenting James Frawley's injury take note of what's happening with our friends over at Carlton - Carlton's bad bout of the Blues

I'm certain it's not as disastrous as it sounds (Brock should get over his bout of the runs by the end of March) but the effect on their pre season is going to be more extensive than the loss of one defender (albeit an important one) to us.

  On 22/01/2011 at 21:27, Whispering_Jack said:

Those lamenting James Frawley's injury take note of what's happening with our friends over at Carlton - Carlton's bad bout of the Blues

I'm certain it's not as disastrous as it sounds (Brock should get over his bout of the runs by the end of March) but the effect on their pre season is going to be more extensive than the loss of one defender (albeit an important one) to us.

Carlton's story just underlines how much you need going right to really make it in this competition. That said, Frawley is as central as anyone to our make up now. I was a big Warnock fan when he arrived. It was great to see someone make the most of his chance. If he can rediscover that form in Chip's absence there would be a silver lining.

Do we have a doctor in the house who can explain what's involved in a pectoral muscle injury and how Chip can stay fit and ensure he makes a full recovery and still return to the team in a timely manner?

  On 22/01/2011 at 12:29, nostradeemus said:

It is my understanding that when a star gets injured and is reported out for "x" amount of weeks, that number is indicative of weeks from injury to resumption of duties and includes any subsequent rehab they will require. Acquisition of match fitness is usually done through the VFL or sometimes AFL if the player in question is good enough.

And it goes without saying we will not risk bringing him in too early. No matter how dire the situation is in the backline (hopefully not) there are other ways to plug a hole then to risk the welfare and longevity of one of our most promising players.

Extremely well put- I believe the same.

  On 22/01/2011 at 22:07, Deeman said:

Do we have a doctor in the house who can explain what's involved in a pectoral muscle injury and how Chip can stay fit and ensure he makes a full recovery and still return to the team in a timely manner?

I've SMS'd our resident sports medicine guru to see if he can enlighten us on the injury. He's up north at the moment doing vital hospital work but hopefully, he'll have time to contribute on this subject.

Not sure if the forgotten Stef Martin has been mentioned in this thread, but Chip's injury may create a place for him and I have a feeling he may be in for a good year. He is training well and is in good condition. With Warnock, Rivers, Garland and Stef we should be right for height in the backline until Chip's return.

  On 22/01/2011 at 11:48, nostradeemus said:

Whoever does take "Chip the gorrila keeper's" place will be under pressure from whoever doesn't get the nod (I am pressuming it is a choice out of Warnock and Martin for the proper FB position) and also the likely candidate will be under pressure to keep their place in the team outright from the impending return of Frawley himself.

Needless to say there is a lot of pressure to perform, so the motivation is there. At least we have an opportunity to see if our perceived defence depth is worth its salt. I've had my little hissy fit over Frawl's injury- broke a couple of pencils in my room- now I actually look forward to seeing how we deal with this.

Pressure coming for spots from all areas of the field will hopefully see improved team performance and hopefully less reliance on a dominant backline. Bring it on!

I totally agree!!! This will put pressure on any replacement player to play at their utmost best for them to stay in the side.

Dammit!

10-12 weeks seem a long time for a pec injury,

and if I was Shaun Hampson I'd probably intentionally injure myself too to spend more time with Ms Gale.

  On 22/01/2011 at 15:47, bing181 said:

Then, in a bit of an unfortunate coincidence, both Melb and Casey have byes the w/e of Apr 23.

That is indeed unfortunate.

  On 22/01/2011 at 22:59, Redleg said:

Not sure if the forgotten Stef Martin has been mentioned in this thread, but Chip's injury may create a place for him and I have a feeling he may be in for a good year. He is training well and is in good condition. With Warnock, Rivers, Garland and Stef we should be right for height in the backline until Chip's return.

Martin was our only ruckman fit and firing this time last year. Watched him in the first pre-season and he was terrible up forward. just terrible with no confidence. his season went downhill from there.

If there is one bloke i have the least confidence in, it's Martin. Unless he is punching the ball away from a tall forward, I think he has proven very little over the years. He has the athletic ability and size but lacks the competitive grunt I reckon. Love to be proven wrong but he has a long way to go, especially now we have finally invested in some more talls.

  On 22/01/2011 at 04:41, BangkokDemon said:

I have no argument that losing Frawley will make it much harder for us in those first few weeks of the season. You put him in top 6, I would say, more likely Chip is one of the Top 3 "Most Valuable Players". So the impact will be significant. But, my point and that of some others, on this thread,is this will be a good opportunity to test our depth and see just how far we have come in the past 3 seasons.

Good post. I'd put him in the top 3 for 2011 too... But top six is more of a general rating... One you'd gave to be stupid, not opinionated to disagree with.

And yes, 2011 won't be our year... But significant steps MUST be made... Finals is one if them, and tomake finals we'll need the defence to be as strong as last year. He's the biggest part of that.

I'd say the FD would be challenging Martin to step up. He's basically got 4 months to cement a spot in the side. We could play Warnock and probably will at times but how much can he really offer?

  On 22/01/2011 at 21:27, Whispering_Jack said:

Those lamenting James Frawley's injury take note of what's happening with our friends over at Carlton - Carlton's bad bout of the Blues

I'm certain it's not as disastrous as it sounds (Brock should get over his bout of the runs by the end of March) but the effect on their pre season is going to be more extensive than the loss of one defender (albeit an important one) to us.

Freo are not without their problems also; http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/106849/default.aspx

Morabito out for the season, Roger Hayden out until mid-year and second year key forward Houghton missing up to 8 weeks with a broken right forearm (see article)