On 07/12/2010 at 12:14, realist said:

You like many have missed the point!!!

It is NOT a sport.

It is a BUSINESS!!

If you felt you could do better in another company would you stay if you were feeling devalued?

When Scully or Frawley or ? leaves because the bar was raised higher at GWS 850 bigones,maybe you will finally see it

as it really is!!

A BUSINESS !! Where workers get the best they can and so they should!!

I can write in CAPITALS too, with even more EXCLAMATION points than you!!!

What a soulless point of view you have. Without the passionate of supporters who love the sport, there is no business.

  On 07/12/2010 at 12:24, realist said:

Why did you not mention that in your initial post?

It to me sounds like sour grapes!

Sour grapes, I don't know.

I know how excited I was when I first saw him play in our reserves as an supplementary player, a little like I felt when I first saw Jason gram running out of defence for the saints at the 'G'. I saw talent.

Fastrack to mid 2000's & he's getting cheap tricks behind the point post, I mean kicks, & avoiding all contact, running the ball slowly without urgency, out of the back half. Playing without taking any knocks or hits & run to recieve.

I became sour at a few of those Prima donna's of that time. Players who could play who started to go through the motions for a few years.

That Is Why we are where we are now & the last few years.

So In a way I'm grown disappointed with Bruce who years back I saw as a potential captain, around 1999 - 2000. He could have given what Robbie did, but chose to not. In many ways.

  On 07/12/2010 at 12:21, why you little said:

No Brucey was not confident he could raise the Bar. I know business, & yes football is a business that gets harder every year. Cameron does not trust his ability deep down.

HEAR what he said!!

He felt he had more opportunity at another club that he felt appreciated his talents more than Melbourne!!

Would you stay at a place you felt did not value you?

NOTE.. HE has not bagged Melbourne and the Club itself has not bagged him, unlike others who have left.

Obviously respect on both sides

A win win on both sides.

It is the desperates who post on these sites who appear the most put out.

If he was that bad why the worry?

  On 07/12/2010 at 12:36, realist said:

HEAR what he said!!

He felt he had more opportunity at another club that he felt appreciated his talents more than Melbourne!!

Would you stay at a place you felt did not value you?

NOTE.. HE has not bagged Melbourne and the Club itself has not bagged him, unlike others who have left.

Obviously respect on both sides

A win win on both sides.

It is the desperates who post on these sites who appear the most put out.

If he was that bad why the worry?

Do i look worried. It is Cameron I feel sorry for. It is not as if he was not offered employment-He was, and he turned it down because the Bar has been raised at Melbourne & his nice big contract was not renewed the way he was used to it being.

If he had have worked hard he would have got games at melbourne & been a one club fine servant of the MFC, now he isn't. He will regret that...i won't.

  On 07/12/2010 at 11:45, realist said:

The Facts

He will be paid less at Hawthorn. (In the press)

There is no guarantee for more than one year.

He agrees Melbourne has the right to determine its future.

He obviously felt he was not part of that long term plan. (Melbourne has communicated its youth policy for many years)

He has not said one bad word against the Club!

Supporters think of this game as a sport!

It is a multi million dollar business!

Melbourne FC have the right and the need to determine the direction their business has to follow!

If as an employee of any other company an employee decided to move because he felt his opportunities were better, would people complain?

Obviously told he was not part of the company's long term plans. ie only a one year deal with no trigger points!

He goes to a company who feels will benefit them. Why would you not support him.

Yes we get very emotional but in reality it is just one employee deciding he has more opportunity at another company.

What other worker does not have that right?

Loyalty died when it only became one way!

Ask Yze, White, Robbo etc about loyalty and what they would do given their choices when they were courted by others then if the knew what would happen to them?

The way Macca and Bruce have left will certainly have a lasting effect on the present playing group.

Many posters on this sight applaud the Club for their stance.

When the next one goes ,AND THEY CERTAINLY WILL,for more certainty,

Should the club not achieve its dream Questions may have to be asked!

I am 40 and I have never been happier with the club's list managament.

In the modern professional era players earn so much money that most of them will want to play on even when their form wanes and the game passes them by. As a result clubs have to be proactive in 'retiring' players because when the time comes the players generally will want to play on.

Robbo, Yze and White were all finished when the club 'retired' them. If i recall correctly all were hoping to continue their careers at another club but no club came a calling. Tells you something I think.

Mcdonald is one of favourite ever Dees players. Always gave 100% on the park and an absolute gentleman off it. Still he would have been 34 in 2011 and the old legs looked more than a little tired in 2010. Fair enough for me for the club to prioritise getting games into our elite young midfield than another season for Junior.

Bruce is 31. Apparently a great role mode off the field but for an experienced player he never showed much poise or good decision making or good disposal on the field. If you believe Mike Sheehan he just finished a contract that had him in the top 15 - 20 players in the league. Well he was never in that echelon let alone in the top 50. Now at 31 he has looked at our list and he has looked at the Hawks list and like Cheney he has seen less competition for a place in their 22. Thats the certainty he has found. And of course for mine the reason both Bruce and Cheney see more opportunities at Hawthorn is that while their list does have some elite players it does not bat deep. To wit we have embarked on a thorough and sustained rebuild and we have a list deep in emerging young talent whilst the Hawks are paying for early draft shockers like Thorpe, Muston and Dowler with a lack of depth.

Good list management all round for mine by the Dees. And the lesson for the players. After years in the wilderness the team that created the game is ready to take it back. The whole club is focussed on winning a flag and finally there are no easy rides for senior players. Spots in the best 22 have to be earned by consistent performance not reputation. Its probably been..oh.. 46 years or so since this was truly the case.

  On 07/12/2010 at 12:14, realist said:

You like many have missed the point!!!

It is NOT a sport.

It is a BUSINESS!!

If you felt you could do better in another company would you stay if you were feeling devalued?

When Scully or Frawley or ? leaves because the bar was raised higher at GWS 850 bigones,maybe you will finally see it

as it really is!!

A BUSINESS !! Where workers get the best they can and so they should!!

Your argument is nothing new.

It is very simplistic and overly generic.

Not all "businesses" are the same be they traditional or sporting based

Businesses are not entities they are just a collection of real people and what makes one company different from another company is its people which includes its leaders and administrators as well as its employees. Many people stay at a company for other reasons than just what they can "get" out of it. Being part of something you believe in and enjoy and sacrificing for the common good can be more important to some people than whats in it for moi.

The MFC is building such a "business" where its starting to stand for something and building a future

The day the MFC becomes just a commercial business will be the day I reconsider my support

Cam, ultimately couldn't put his faith in the club. Thats his decision and he's entitled to it

I don't think it was money or playing more season(s). He was prepared to jeopardise a very long successful career (and after association) with the MFC for the snake oil dreams sold to him by Hawthorn in his twilight year(s)

I think thats sad for Cam and I wonder whether he will come to regret it

But c'est la vie, what will be will be and we all move on. No hard feelings from me, just disappoinment.

  On 07/12/2010 at 12:14, realist said:

You like many have missed the point!!!

It is NOT a sport.

It is a BUSINESS!!

If you felt you could do better in another company would you stay if you were feeling devalued?

When Scully or Frawley or ? leaves because the bar was raised higher at GWS 850 bigones,maybe you will finally see it

as it really is!!

A BUSINESS !! Where workers get the best they can and so they should!!

No, you may be missing the point.

Yes it's a business...but you are only looking at it from the players prspective.

The club also looks at it as a business and their core business is to win flags.

Part of that is to develop and focus on the players that will achieve this goal.

I think you will find the club will do all we can to keep those that are part of our priemiership plan. Unfortunalty I don't the club and or Bruce thought he was part of that (or at least that was a year to year proposition ) and hence they parted ways.

I don't blame him for leaving and can understand why he left. I hope he finds what he is looking for at the Hawks.

But I also understand why the club didn't offer him more. We offered him 1 year on good money as that is what he was worth to us. The simple fact of the matter is that at 31 Bruce may not have been part of our bigger picture and quire frankly is not worth 2 years. If he was he would have got that on the open market, he didn't. And like any good business we didn't more for something than it is worth to us.

You also brought up white, robbo, yze. The same thing applies, if they were still viewed as capable at the top level after they were cut by us they also would have got contracts, they didn't.

The club is well aware it is a business, and the threats that exist which is why we are employing smart business tactics such as pre paying contracts and creating a surplus in our cap to guard against advances from other clubs and compete with them on business terms.

The club is making some very astute business decisions. Decisions that directly align with it's goal...to win a flag.

  On 07/12/2010 at 11:45, realist said:

The Facts

He will be paid less at Hawthorn. (In the press)

There is no guarantee for more than one year.

He agrees Melbourne has the right to determine its future.

He obviously felt he was not part of that long term plan. (Melbourne has communicated its youth policy for many years)

He has not said one bad word against the Club!

Supporters think of this game as a sport!

It is a multi million dollar business!

Melbourne FC have the right and the need to determine the direction their business has to follow!

If as an employee of any other company an employee decided to move because he felt his opportunities were better, would people complain?

Obviously told he was not part of the company's long term plans. ie only a one year deal with no trigger points!

He goes to a company who feels will benefit them. Why would you not support him.

Yes we get very emotional but in reality it is just one employee deciding he has more opportunity at another company.

What other worker does not have that right?

Loyalty died when it only became one way!

Ask Yze, White, Robbo etc about loyalty and what they would do given their choices when they were courted by others then if the knew what would happen to them?

The way Macca and Bruce have left will certainly have a lasting effect on the present playing group.

Many posters on this sight applaud the Club for their stance.

When the next one goes ,AND THEY CERTAINLY WILL,for more certainty,

Should the club not achieve its dream Questions may have to be asked!

Realist

You are clearly unhappy with the list management at the club over the last few years. What would you have done differently and which of those players traded, delisted or retired would you want at the club in 2011?

  On 07/12/2010 at 11:55, E25 said:

His time at MFC would have been up a lot sooner than I think it will at Hawthorn, barring injury.

I agree, and I think he feels the same way. Given the Club's recent list decisions, state of the list and the phase we're in I think he's made a smart move to go to the Hawks.

I think it's accepted by most now that both club and player made decisions (a combination of football and business) based on their own interests. If Bruce is comfortable with his decision then so be it. He obviously didn't trust either the football department or his own body to produce an outcome to see him through any more than next season so in the end it was appropriate for him to go. I see it as a pity that an important player's career had to end this way but that's football these days.

Seeya later Cam, don't take it personally but I'll probably be booing in round 2. Just the way it is.

Pity we'd not traded him in trade period and gotten a little something for him.

Maybe McAvaney will think the boo's from the Dees supporters are Bruuces, and ask why the fans are supporting the guy who left?

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/hawthorn-savours-cameron-bruce-bonus/story-e6frf9jf-1225967255644

According to this article, the Bruce negotiations were drawn out because Pelchen told Bruce to go back and try to reconcile with Melb, even though it was established Bruce wanted to leave before the end of trade week.

A bit of fixing by Pelchen methinks.

It didn't take a genius to realise the dees would not budge.

This move firmly put the hawks onside with Bruce and stretched negotiations out a few more weeks, meaning the hawks could claim him for free in the PSD.

Brucey was manipulated.

This 'realist' is anything but.

Does it take a relaist to know when White, Yze, Robbo, and Miller should be pushed aside.

Does it take a realist to know that the club offered a 31 year old a solid contract and he refused of his own free will.

Does it take a realist to know that list management is, especially at the bottom of the ladder, a ruthless game.

I guess it doesn't take a realist...

  On 07/12/2010 at 21:51, rpfc said:

This 'realist' is anything but.

Does it take a relaist to know when White, Yze, Robbo, and Miller should be pushed aside.

Does it take a realist to know that the club offered a 31 year old a solid contract and he refused of his own free will.

Does it take a realist to know that list management is, especially at the bottom of the ladder, a ruthless game.

I guess it doesn't take a realist...

This realist knows it is no longer a Game.

It is ruthless.

It should be ruthless but now the players themselves have to be ruthless.

They need to look after their own interests.

In this case a win win for both parties.

Both parties are obviously happy with the outcome or a compromise would have happened.

It didn't .

This realist knows this will not be the last player movement.

Watch the reality of the GWS next year.

  On 07/12/2010 at 22:07, realist said:

This realist knows it is no longer a Game.

It is ruthless.

It should be ruthless but now the players themselves have to be ruthless.

They need to look after their own interests.

In this case a win win for both parties.

Both parties are obviously happy with the outcome or a compromise would have happened.

It didn't .

This realist knows this will not be the last player movement.

Watch the reality of the GWS next year.

When we lose 'Scully or Frawley or ?'?

What excitable tripe.

Classic MFCSS.

And both parties were not happy. We gave an effing contract to our vice captain and he said no.

  On 07/12/2010 at 22:07, realist said:

This realist knows it is no longer a Game.

It is ruthless.

It should be ruthless but now the players themselves have to be ruthless.

They need to look after their own interests.

In this case a win win for both parties.

Both parties are obviously happy with the outcome or a compromise would have happened.

It didn't .

This realist knows this will not be the last player movement.

Watch the reality of the GWS next year.

So has he left for business reasons ($) or, as he and other deluded types at Hawforn seem to think, premiership success?

I think more of the later and that he might hope to last a bit longer. To me, this is all about his sporting pursuits.

This has very little to do with the words 'ruthless', 'cut throat' and all those nice words. It is purely and simply, a decision based on playing.

The club continues it's direction and rightly so, but on both sides of the fence, this is purely about the game IMO. You play for your spot, whether 30 or 17 and should be made to earn it.

Did Bruce have a right on a spot over any other? Of course not.

  On 07/12/2010 at 22:23, Demon Hill said:

So has he left for business reasons ($) or, as he and other deluded types at Hawforn seem to think, premiership success?

I think more of the later and that he might hope to last a bit longer. To me, this is all about his sporting pursuits.

This has very little to do with the words 'ruthless', 'cut throat' and all those nice words. It is purely and simply, a decision based on playing.

The club continues it's direction and rightly so, but on both sides of the fence, this is purely about the game IMO.

Spot on and I support him in his decision. His leaving will provide him with further opportunity and us with the ability to develop our players.

E25 to think an opposition club would look a gift horse in the mouth is a little naive I think. At best Pelchin would be gilding the lily and at worst telling porkies. It's been done to preserve Cam's image keeping in mind he is a life member of our club. They are trying to deflect the blame to Melbourne. Pelchin probably wanted to delay things so he'd get Bruce for nothing. I'd have done the same.

That's fine.

A Joeboy synopsis:

He's Gone, Good !

  On 07/12/2010 at 22:07, realist said:

This realist knows it is no longer a Game.

It is ruthless.

It should be ruthless but now the players themselves have to be ruthless.

They need to look after their own interests.

In this case a win win for both parties.

Both parties are obviously happy with the outcome or a compromise would have happened.

It didn't .

This realist knows this will not be the last player movement.

Watch the reality of the GWS next year.

Your unreal!

GWS is an issue for all clubs. We are suceptible but none moreso than other clubs.

In fact we may be better placed to repel raids due to the room in our cap.

And of course you do know frawley signed on for 4 years.

  On 07/12/2010 at 22:20, rpfc said:

When we lose 'Scully or Frawley or ?'?

What excitable tripe.

Classic MFCSS.

And both parties were not happy. We gave an effing contract to our vice captain and he said no.

They obviously did not make the contract attractive enough.

Bruce decided he would be ruthless

Some certainly have either rosy glasses or short memories, or both .

Everything we hear regarding all this from Bruce and the Poos is pure spin. That's the reality of what happens.

Rpfc probably hit it on or near the head whenst invoking the word Narcicist.

  On 07/12/2010 at 22:45, realist said:

They obviously did not make the contract attractive enough.

Bruce decided he would be ruthless

No, he decided he wanted a flag, and he is too weak to come out and say that.

He keeps on mentioning his 'future' - he didn't get younger moving to Hawthorn...

And if you are a 224 game veteran on the coin he was on - you should take the $300k we offered. He didn't because we won't win a flag before 2012 (his last year) and that is that.

  On 07/12/2010 at 22:58, belzebub59 said:

Some certainly have either rosy glasses or short memories, or both .

Everything we hear regarding all this from Bruce and the Poos is pure spin. That's the reality of what happens.

Rpfc probably hit it on or near the head whenst invoking the word Narcicist.

Yep you can see the spin the realist is trying to put on it. A 'win-win' for both 'happy' parties etc etc ...

One club players are revered for the rest of their lives. That's a legacy money can't buy.

  On 07/12/2010 at 23:00, rpfc said:

No, he decided he wanted a flag, and he is too weak to come out and say that.

He keeps on mentioning his 'future' - he didn't get younger moving to Hawthorn...

And if you are a 224 game veteran on the coin he was on - you should take the $300k we offered. He didn't because we won't win a flag before 2012 (his last year) and that is that.

tick

  On 07/12/2010 at 22:45, realist said:

They obviously did not make the contract attractive enough.

Bruce decided he would be ruthless

Just like John Anthony. How could the pies let him go, they should have given him more to stay.

Lockyer and o'Bree were good servants of the club they deserved more games last year and a big contract next year...

Medhurst had good form in the VFL they should have played him more...