No need for a backup ruckman

[Romey 127]

I find it interesting to read that a number of supporters believe we need to recruit a ready made backup ruckman to support Jamar. The message board is filled with suggestions like Cox, Blake, Hale etc. Why would we rob one of our up coming ruckman of valuable development gametime with a stopgap ruckman who will not be part of our next premierhip window? Like With James McDonald, I think we need to make room to allow new talent to step up.

There is also a rumour that the luxury of a second may be a thing of the past with the AFL reducing the interchange bench to 3.

Edited September 27, 2010 by Romey

[Wolfmother 182]

I think Baileys game plan revolves around a resting ruckman in the fwd line to provide the large target in the goal square.... with the interchange rules being adjusted that seems like a smart move...

Imagine Col being our no.1 ruck if Jamar was injuried before half time.

Rumour has it that Hale had a medical with MFC anyone heard anything

[GOLF 13]

I find it interesting to read that a number of supporters believe we need to recruit a Ready made backup ruckman to support Jamar. The message board is filled with suggestions like Cox, Blake, Hale etc. Why would we rob one of our up coming ruckman of valuable development gametime with a stopgap ruckman who will not be part of our next premierhip window? Like With James McDonald, I think we need to make room to allow new talent to step up.

There is also a rumour that the luxury of a second may be a thing of the past with the AFL reducing the interchange bench to 3.

What we need is insurance. We are one Russian cruciate ligament injury away from having such a rubbish ruck division that we won't make the 8 for two or three years. Spencer, Fitzpatrick and Gawn are young. Jamar hit his straps as a no 1 AFL ruck at age 26; why do you think the three youngsters are going to be adequate first rucks in their teens or early twenties?

I would be happy to see us ruck next year with Jamar plus one of Gawn/Spencer/Fitzpatrick, but not to see PJ go as first ruck with one of those young behind him, let alone see Spencer as first ruck plus Fitzpatrick as second.

The mature bodied ruckman we need to recruit may play no senior games at all in 2011/12, if Jamar stays fit and doesn't start to wear out as he did in 2010. He is there in case Jamar goes down. He could usefully give Jamar a bit of a rest (say the games just before and/or after the byes next year, or before and/or after the split round in 2012), but he is not, repeat not, there to play alongside Jamar on a regular basis.

He will be there to ensure we get finals experience and development of a winning culture into our kids in 2011/12, even if Jamar has a serious injury. He might also help Jamar get into 2013 in good enough fettle to help us get to the GF and hopefully a flag.

If Meesen had not been injured so badly/so often he might have filled this role. If PJ had developed like we hoped he would he might have filled this role. If Martin had not gone into reverse at high speed in 2010 he might have filled this role. If Newton was not a 193cm spud, he might have filled this role. But none of them came up with the goods, so none of them can fill this role. We want to be in the 8 in 2011, and the 4 in 2012. We won't do it if Jamar is injured and we have no solid (not brilliant, but solid) replacement to throw into the breach.

[Kit Walker 209]

I find it interesting to read that a number of supporters believe we need to recruit a Ready made backup ruckman to support Jamar. The message board is filled with suggestions like Cox, Blake, Hale etc. Why would we rob one of our up coming ruckman of valuable development gametime with a stopgap ruckman who will not be part of our next premierhip window? Like With James McDonald, I think we need to make room to allow new talent to step up.

There is also a rumour that the luxury of a second may be a thing of the past with the AFL reducing the interchange bench to 3.

If Hale would not be part of our next premiership window, neither would Jamar as they are basically the same age. If the developing players are good enough, they'll get a game.

Sometimes less IS less.

[dee-luded 2,958]

I'd prefer someone with some backbone to show the kids the way.

Is Steven King, whilst not able to force his way into the saints side, does anyone know if he can still get about OK?

If not, what about Gardiner.

Next, Cox. I'd like him to shove it up Worsfolds merry men.

*Naita/ 'Q' ball/ Woosher/ Embers/ Nikosci/ lining up... LOL

[rpfc 27,637]

We have Gawn and Fitzpatrick.

They are babies.

The thought of Jamar going down with a knee injury doesn't make me want a decent backup ruck, because you can't replace your best players.

I want a role player so the year we have a good run with injuries in the next 3 or 4 years we will have a solid body that can give Jamar a rest and still kick a couple of goals.

He doesn't have to dominate - Watts and Jurrah can do that, he just has to fill a role.

[Romey 127]

What we need is insurance. We are one Russian cruciate ligament injury away from having such a rubbish ruck division that we won't make the 8 for two or three years. Spencer, Fitzpatrick and Gawn are young. Jamar hit his straps as a no 1 AFL ruck at age 26; why do you think the three youngsters are going to be adequate first rucks in their teens or early twenties?

I would be happy to see us ruck next year with Jamar plus one of Gawn/Spencer/Fitzpatrick, but not to see PJ go as first ruck with one of those young behind him, let alone see Spencer as first ruck plus Fitzpatrick as second.

The mature bodied ruckman we need to recruit may play no senior games at all in 2011/12, if Jamar stays fit and doesn't start to wear out as he did in 2010. He is there in case Jamar goes down. He could usefully give Jamar a bit of a rest (say the games just before and/or after the byes next year, or before and/or after the split round in 2012), but he is not, repeat not, there to play alongside Jamar on a regular basis.

He will be there to ensure we get finals experience and development of a winning culture into our kids in 2011/12, even if Jamar has a serious injury. He might also help Jamar get into 2013 in good enough fettle to help us get to the GF and hopefully a flag.

If Meesen had not been injured so badly/so often he might have filled this role. If PJ had developed like we hoped he would he might have filled this role. If Martin had not gone into reverse at high speed in 2010 he might have filled this role. If Newton was not a 193cm spud, he might have filled this role. But none of them came up with the goods, so none of them can fill this role. We want to be in the 8 in 2011, and the 4 in 2012. We won't do it if Jamar is injured and we have no solid (not brilliant, but solid) replacement to throw into the breach.

You put up a good argument Golf. What would you be prepared to give up for this mature bodied ruckman who may not play a senior game for the next two years? Would you give up Warnock as other are suggesting? If so, who then do we have as backup if Frawley / Rivers / Garland do their cruciate ligament?

[rpfc 27,637]

You put up a good argument Golf. What would you be prepared to give up for this mature bodied ruckman who may not play a senior game for the next two years? Would you give up Warnock as other are suggesting? If so, who then do we have as backup if Frawley / Rivers / Garland do their cruciate ligament?

You can't replace your best players.

I really don't see this proposed deal as insurance for Jamar. I see it as a way of getting an integral member of the 22 (or 21, but I doubt it) - to give Jamar a rest and to occupy a defender that would normally maul Watts, Jurrah, or Green.

[GOLF 13]

You put up a good argument Golf. What would you be prepared to give up for this mature bodied ruckman who may not play a senior game for the next two years? Would you give up Warnock as other are suggesting? If so, who then do we have as backup if Frawley / Rivers / Garland do their cruciate ligament?

Not Warnock. Maybe Bate/Maric/Jetta. Maybe 3rd pick as well.

But we might pick up a disaffected ruck in the draft with our third pick, or even get a mature age rookie. Remember we need this person for 2 years, so they can be 27-29yo.

The other thing (apart from Warnock) that we don't give uop for him is pick 12.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

I find it interesting to read that a number of supporters believe we need to recruit a ready made backup ruckman to support Jamar. The message board is filled with suggestions like Cox, Blake, Hale etc. Why would we rob one of our up coming ruckman of valuable development gametime with a stopgap ruckman who will not be part of our next premierhip window? Like With James McDonald, I think we need to make room to allow new talent to step up.

There is also a rumour that the luxury of a second may be a thing of the past with the AFL reducing the interchange bench to 3.

To put it simply, Gawn and Fitzy are too young to have a tilt at finals, Meesen is finished, PJ is good at some things, but you miss out on too much in the ruck if he was to end up with the number one job (if disaster strikes Jamar), Martin is very much out of favour and is worse than PJ for 2010. Newton's a stop-gap, and Dunn is far more valuable elsewhere. That leaves Jamar's backup as Sepncer, who various people think is no good at all.

The backup is there as much in case disaster strikes as anything. What's more, if Jamar were to get injured, and say PJ was suspended for a week, what happens then? Too risky.

Your last comment is an interesting one though. Certainly changes the landscape for ruckmen.

Personally I'm completely ok with Jamar and Pj as number 2/backup... it's the names after that that make me nervous.

[GRUN DEE 69]

Hale! Even though he is no Kurt Tippet. Could play a similiar role! Proven to take a grab and kick multiple goals. I think our forward line would flourish with Hale playing out of the goal square taking a big defender.

[rpfc 27,637]

To put it simply, Gawn and Fitzy are too young to have a tilt at finals, Meesen is finished, PJ is good at some things, but you miss out on too much in the ruck if he was to end up with the number one job (if disaster strikes Jamar), Martin is very much out of favour and is worse than PJ for 2010. Newton's a stop-gap, and Dunn is far more valuable elsewhere. That leaves Jamar's backup as Sepncer, who various people think is no good at all.

The backup is there as much in case disaster strikes as anything. What's more, if Jamar were to get injured, and say PJ was suspended for a week, what happens then? Too risky.

Your last comment is an interesting one though. Certainly changes the landscape for ruckmen.

Personally I'm completely ok with Jamar and Pj as number 2/backup... it's the names after that that make me nervous.

I seem to recall a few DD posts assuring DLand that PJ is 'completely ok' or words to that affect.

I tell you - the FD wants a tried ruck/fwd to be a resting backup to Jamar and if they get him next week - PJ is gone.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

I seem to recall a few DD posts assuring DLand that PJ is 'completely ok' or words to that affect.

Nope. Misread me there rpfc. I'll assume you're talking about one or another of my pointless head-against-a-brick-wall conversations with RR. Never said he was completely ok or words to that effect. Was just surprised to see people still feverishly enjoying getting stuck into him despite the fact he was playing and retaining his spot every week, up until he was dropped in a game he wasn't needed.

I tell you - the FD wants a tried ruck/fwd to be a resting backup to Jamar and if they get him next week - PJ is gone.

Of course they do. Hale will be a good pick up for a number of sides. He's actually been, at various times, a pretty damn good player... and going by what archetype is going to be needed with the new rules coming in, he's a pretty damn good fit. Add to that how desperate some sides will be to have a plug-and-play second ruck. I reckon you'll find the vast majority of sides could do with a player who has Hale's best footy under their belt. This doesn't speak at all to PJ's quality though. More to Hale's market value. I daresay the club reckons it has 2 too many ruckman at the moment, and needs to play the younger ones more, instead of guys who may or may not still be around in a few years. That's what'll get PJ turfed. As it stands though, I think the forgotten man Martin's fate plays as much into PJ's as anyones.

[old dee 22,982]

I find it interesting to read that a number of supporters believe we need to recruit a ready made backup ruckman to support Jamar. The message board is filled with suggestions like Cox, Blake, Hale etc. Why would we rob one of our up coming ruckman of valuable development gametime with a stopgap ruckman who will not be part of our next premierhip window? Like With James McDonald, I think we need to make room to allow new talent to step up.

There is also a rumour that the luxury of a second may be a thing of the past with the AFL reducing the interchange bench to 3.

Romey Our head coach said on SEN two weeks ago that we need this type of player.

I happen to think he is right but it does not matter what I think

Dean bailey does see the need and said the MFC might surprise a few people by using a high draft pick to get one.

I think it will happen the only doubt is this year or next!

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

Clearly the fd do care about this issue and that's why there has been speculation about our interest in Hale.

Isn't that enough to tell people that the club is not confident with our backup ruck brigade at present?

If we can get Hale, it's a huge win.

He is above 200 cm, can ruck and can take a good grab going forward. Our current second ruckman is almost a liability when on the field.

The only thing PJ is good for is giving Jamar a rest. Basically he is Jane in Tarzan's body.

Hale has turned off a bit since being out of favour with the Roos and a fresh start could really get him going.

For the right price, he is a definite for mine.

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

I find it interesting to read that a number of supporters believe we need to recruit a ready made backup ruckman to support Jamar. The message board is filled with suggestions like Cox, Blake, Hale etc. Why would we rob one of our up coming ruckman of valuable development gametime with a stopgap ruckman who will not be part of our next premierhip window? Like With James McDonald, I think we need to make room to allow new talent to step up.

There is also a rumour that the luxury of a second may be a thing of the past with the AFL reducing the interchange bench to 3.

Hale is 26... What be you smoking?

[Romey 127]

I just thought I'd summarise the suggestions provided by Demonlanders to date to resolve our apparent ruck deficiencies. Surely we can close this out properley and come up with suggestions from the remaining 4 teams!

Also, I notice Paul Johnson is only one year or 26 games behind Jamar in development. In my opinion 12 months ago there was not much between them and now Jamar is an All Australian ruckman. Maybe he is also due for a breakout season?

Adelaide - Shaun McKernan

Brisbane - Mitch Clarke / Brennan

Collingwood - Josh Fraser / Jack Anthony

Carlton - Jacobs / Hampson

Essendon -

Fremantle -

Geelong - Trent West / Tom Hawkins / Mark Blake

Hawthorn -

Melbourne

North Melbourne - Hale

Port Adelaide - Cameron Cloke

Richmond - Vickery

St Kilda - McEvoy

Sydney -

Western Bulldogs - Everitt / Minson

West Coast - Cox / Quinten Lynch / Ben Mcinley

Casey - Tim Mohr

[Rogue 585]

I seem to recall a few DD posts assuring DLand that PJ is 'completely ok' or words to that affect.

I seem to recall the same - well, the sentiment at least.

Pretty sure I participated in a back and forth about PJ (and other ruck options) in a thread with DD not so long ago.

Also, I notice Paul Johnson is only one year or 26 games behind Jamar in development. In my opinion 12 months ago there was not much between them and now Jamar is an All Australian ruckman. Maybe he is also due for a breakout season?

I disagree.

Jamar was already showing he was a player last year - just cruelled by injuries.

[rpfc 27,637]

I just thought I'd summarise the suggestions provided by Demonlanders to date to resolve our apparent ruck deficiencies. Surely we can close this out properley and come up with suggestions from the remaining 4 teams!

I don't see what your point is?

People suggest players for trade, we are about to enter a week for trading players - otherwise known as trade week.

Player trade.

Also, I notice Paul Johnson is only one year or 26 games behind Jamar in development. In my opinion 12 months ago there was not much between them and now Jamar is an All Australian ruckman. Maybe he is also due for a breakout season?

Jamar was always, in my opinion (and isn't that all that matters...), streets ahead of wingman-ruck hybrid that is Paul Johnson. Jamar used his frame when Johnson does not. He crashes packs. He rucks well (ask beamer). And can take a mark in a contested situation.

The only thing that has happened in 2010 is he has done it nearly every week.