David Hale

[hoopla 418]

Melbourne: Pick #17 + Hale

Nth Melbourne: Pick #12 + #32

All up - pick "30-ish" for a big forward and experienced back-up ruckman...... not a bad deal. I don't place a lot of store on the drop from pick 12 to pick 17. Its very subjective. What are the chances that the player we want will go between 13 and 16 ? What are the chances that player will become a superstar

As I recall Hale was originally a top 20 pick - and I I'm prepared to back our FD to get the best out of him. He has shown he can play at AFL level. He has a couple of big bags of goals.

Bear in mind the impact on our structures. All of a sudden the opposition is going to have to worry about matching up on a tall marking forward as well as on Watts, Jurrah and co.

All up he's a far better bridge between Jamar and Fitzy/Gawn than PJ and Frank (" Some mothers do áve em") Spencer

Edited October 5, 2010 by hoopla

[Guest hangon007]

Melbourne: Pick #17 + Hale

Nth Melbourne: Pick #12 + #32

Latest rumour is that Hutchy got it wrong ... according to Damien Barrett. This was not Melbournes offer this was what North wanted. Massive difference.

So it looks like we will just have to sit and wait.

[Mousey 47]

Latest rumour is that Hutchy got it wrong ... according to Damien Barrett. This was not Melbournes offer this was what North wanted. Massive difference.

So it looks like we will just have to sit and wait.

Makes sense..

North would of been stupid not to say yes to that deal straight away.

[The Albino Warrior 44]

Makes sense..

North would of been stupid not to say yes to that deal straight away.

Massive sigh of relief.

Sounded way over the odds.

[H_T 2,941]

FYI

Hun quotes Hales contract at $375k. So far I've heard $375k, $400k and $425k

375 isnt so..000 bad !!

I have read $350 K in the HUN in today's paper. Do we have another speculative figure ?

It's no wonder Nixon is amused at some of the reports and figures bandied around.

[Guest hangon007]

Makes sense..

North would of been stupid not to say yes to that deal straight away.

Yeah plus if Hawks have a "genuine" interest this would force them to use their first round pick. Sounds like North are auctioning him to the best bidder.

[H_T 2,941]

Yeah plus if Hawks have a "genuine" interest this would force them to use their first round pick. Sounds like North are auctioning him to the best bidder.

They would be silly not to.

[Guest hangon007]

They would be silly not to.

All depends on where the player wants to go. Ricky Nixon gave you some massive clues if you listened to him yesterday. B)

[old55 21,356]

Yeah plus if Hawks have a "genuine" interest this would force them to use their first round pick. Sounds like North are auctioning him to the best bidder.

Hawks don't have to use their 1st rounder - they have the compensation pick for Campbell Brown at the end of the first round - that easily beats our 2nd rounder and it beats GC 1st pick in the 2nd round. Think about - if a team with an excellent list building reputation like the Hawks is offering this pick and we need to go to the offer described above to be competitive with it then that sets Hale's value, not "oh I reckon he's worth about pick 45".

[H_T 2,941]

All depends on where the player wants to go. Ricky Nixon gave you some massive clues if you listened to him yesterday. B)

Correct and that might help, but that is not always the way it pans out. The clubs interests are sometimes most times almost always at stake and in some cases they might play hard ball. Indeed in other cases where good relationships exist the people involved will work towards a solution for the player's liking and strike the best deal possible for the club(s).

[DeeZee 6,753]

He's just not a very good player. I've got a lot of feedback from North supporters i'm friends with who say he's a spud of the highest order, most neutral supporters rate PJ ahead of him.

If we want another ok, ordinary 200cm player, that will fill a hole, then we should get him. If we want quality, we'll stay away and develop our own or go for a genuinely good player, like Mitch Clarke.

Yes i agree with this.

My brother is a north supporter and we often go to DEES and Kangas games together, so we have seen alot of both teams.

He rates PJ ahead of Hale citing Hale as lifeless and slow, compared to PJ who can at least run and bounce the ball, and is a better Tap Ruckman.

[daisycutter 28,575]

I have read $350 K in the HUN in today's paper. Do we have another speculative figure ?

Yes, sorry, Hun quotes $350k. I got it wrong, unless there was another ref I now can't find.

Who knows what it really is

[Guest hangon007]

Hawks don't have to use their 1st rounder - they have the compensation pick for Campbell Brown at the end of the first round - that easily beats our 2nd rounder and it beats GC 1st pick in the 2nd round. Think about - if a team with an excellent list building reputation like the Hawks is offering this pick and we need to go to the offer described above to be competitive with it then that sets Hale's value, not "oh I reckon he's worth about pick 45".

"easily" ... no, no, no its like 28 vs 32 ... next to no difference ...

However, Picks 12 & 32 is much, much better. Especially in Norf are interested in a kid we are!!!

[The Albino Warrior 44]

not "oh I reckon he's worth about pick 45".

Of course, but you need to have a point where you walk away from the negotiations.

Or do you think Melbourne should go with a "whatever it takes" approach to Hale?

[H_T 2,941]

Of course, but you need to have a point where you walk away from the negotiations.

Or do you think Melbourne should go with a "whatever it takes" approach to Hale?

So do you think the above offer is considered a "whatever it takes" approach ?

[old55 21,356]

"easily" ... no, no, no its like 28 vs 32 ... next to no difference ...

However, Picks 12 & 32 is much, much better. Especially in Norf are interested in a kid we are!!!

The Hawks compo pick will be 26 depending on who else exercises one. Each club that exercises one pushes our 2nd rounder back a pick - the minimum difference is 26 to 33 and that is easily better whichever way you look at - we'd have to sweeten 33 to compete with 26 - how hard is that to understand? So yes maybe 12 + 32 for Hale + 17 is better than 26 and that's why we offered it.

[Bonkers 915]

Hawks don't have to use their 1st rounder - they have the compensation pick for Campbell Brown at the end of the first round - that easily beats our 2nd rounder and it beats GC 1st pick in the 2nd round. Think about - if a team with an excellent list building reputation like the Hawks is offering this pick and we need to go to the offer described above to be competitive with it then that sets Hale's value, not "oh I reckon he's worth about pick 45".

Value is very different to price. What value is Hale to North Melbourne? Ask yourself that question & then ask yourself can they realistically demand the price that they are supposedly demanding. Hale can't get a game at North, he is taking up a fair portion of their salary cap & they don't need him on their list yet are supposedly demanding a pick at the end of the first round. If Hawthorn want to pay that price let them go ahead, we would be stupid to pay the price that is being reported or to compete with what Hawthorn are reportedly prepared to pay.

[The Albino Warrior 44]

So do you think the above offer is considered a "whatever it takes" approach ?

By "whatever it takes" I mean, you don't stop upping the offer until you've got your man.

[dee-luded 2,958]

I can't speak for others on this forum but the issue is not whether I'd be willing to give to get. The issue is what price compared to the true value of David Hale do we have to pay. For me he isn't worth any more than pick 45. I'd be willing to give a second rounder because we need a role player. However giving any more than that is just allowing north to bend us over a barrel. Sydney gave up pick 28 from memory for Mumford last year who is a first ruck, St.kilda gave up pick 99 for King who was a role player. I just don't see the value in hutchy's rumored trade, it is almost ridiculous to think that the FD proposed that trade.

It almost feels like we were talking 2nd Rnd last week,,, then perhaps someone came in & gerzumped us (GC?), with a pick like 26?, & do we want to win the bidding.

I say, stand your ground @ 2nd Rnd Pick, and Make hale want to come over. He can then Tell them, that's where he wants to go. If that doesn't work he goes into the draft, & could end up in the Sun anyway, for nothing.

Edit: he's still under contract.

Edited October 6, 2010 by dee-luded

[old55 21,356]

Of course, but you need to have a point where you walk away from the negotiations.

Or do you think Melbourne should go with a "whatever it takes" approach to Hale?

No - I'm not keen on giving Scully, Trengove, Watts, 12, 32 and 49 but it's equally pointless talking about pick 45 if the Hawks and GC are in the market at around pick 26. 32 is the last 2nd round pick in an uncompromised year and the downgrade from 12 to 17 is not necessarily a big deal - clubs often have different player ratings and we could still get the player we wanted at 17 - this happens all the time. I don't see that offer "selling the farm" and I reckon it's about my limit - I want to stay in the first round because I think we can get another very good player - I think BP is a very smart recruiter.

[dee-luded 2,958]

The FD will do the best deal they can achieve. Nixon is talking it up by adding the Hawks in the mix because its really only Nth and Melb talking. Under the new rules the Hawks are not seriously going to go for Hale. Nth must get rid of him especially given their circumstances it would be a nightmare for them to have him suck in their cap. He is now totally useless to them in the way Mark Blake is not worth a candle for geelong.

So lets not caught up in the posturing going on the FD will be better placed than anyone here to know whats on offer.

Maybe they say to Nth thanks but no thanks we will wait to see whats around next year and take Fraser for the one year left in him to help out the russian.

I'd be satisfied with that. Also, next year would be a better year to pick up another Mature Ruck, because to me this year is more important to get kids so we have time to develop them for 2013.

A mature established ruck won't need much time at all.

[dee-luded 2,958]

Stop talking sense, it will get you nowhere.

I don't know much about Hale. He was 4th in NM B&F a couple of years ago and there are three footy clubs chasing him. Those clubs will have monitored him for months, looked at vision, analyzed his game and matched it to theirs, done research on his medical status and spoken to dozens of people about him before making a decision.

I ask myself - do I want to believe a bunch of internet jockeys who have marginal knowledge or 3 clubs who have expended much energy coupled with infinately better knowledge researching him?

I'll back the FD, but as someone once said "footy is an opinion business" so don't let common sense get in the way of your thinking.

The 'Opinion' is not about Hale, so much, but more about the price & the leverage we then give our opponent. The ultimate cost...

[dee-luded 2,958]

Stop talking sense, it will get you nowhere.

I don't know much about Hale. He was 4th in NM B&F a couple of years ago and there are three footy clubs chasing him. Those clubs will have monitored him for months, looked at vision, analyzed his game and matched it to theirs, done research on his medical status and spoken to dozens of people about him before making a decision.

I ask myself - do I want to believe a bunch of internet jockeys who have marginal knowledge or 3 clubs who have expended much energy coupled with infinately better knowledge researching him?

I'll back the FD, but as someone once said "footy is an opinion business" so don't let common sense get in the way of your thinking.

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/third-round-pick-for-meesen/story-e6frecrc-1111114619064

YOUNG Adelaide ruckman John Meesen has been traded to Melbourne for a third-round draft pick. Meesen, 21, went to the Demons in return for Melbourne's third round draft pick, No.37.

He is the second player to leave the Crows during the AFL's trade period, after Martin Mattner was traded to Sydney earlier in the week.

Meesen spent three seasons on Adelaide's list, but played only two games for the club, in rounds 20 and 21 this year.

[Akum 2,660]

I'm not sure that I'm totally sold on Hale, but if the FD are interested, I can see the sense in it, for many of the reasons that have been mentioned already. Another few points that need to be highlighted:

* In 2008 North thought he was worth a 4-year contract (!!) at $350K p.a. North may be flaky but they're not insane - you don't offer contracts like this in the first place without a very good reason.

* He kciked 8 goals in a match against Geelong. Who was the last Dees player to kick 8 goals in a match? There has to be talent somewhere to be able to play to that level.

* He's likely to be more value as a fwd/ruck than purely as a ruck, which is what Hawks & Suns are looking for.

* Through excellent drafting in the past few years, we've already got one of the best teams for the 2013-2014 seasons in the bag. We can already see that even in 2011 some very good players are going to have to miss out on senior selection. It's hard to see how we're going to pick up something in this year's draft that's going to add significantly to what we've already got for 2013-2014. By far the biggest hole in our list is a big forward for the next 2 seasons, after which we'll have Gawn and Fitzy.

* In 2010 he kicked 17 goals in the first 7 matches. Another club made inquiries about him in July. After the first 7 matches, he got no goals in 5 games and played most of the rest of the season in the VFL. He's clearly not been happy at North and wants out, and it sounds like he played that way for the last 15 rounds.

As was mentioned several pages ago, a lot depends on where his head's at. I'm sure that the FD would have thoroughly done their homework here. If, as logic suggests, we are the club that made approaches to him in July, they've had an eye on him for some time, it's not just a flash in the pan.

As other posters have said, he's attractive to us for structural reasons, and he's likely to suit our game much better than he suits North's.

He's a risk in terms of his recent performance, no doubt, but there's a lot of sense in getting him.

[H_T 2,941]

The 'Opinion' is not about Hale, so much, but more about the price & the leverage we then give our opponent. The ultimate cost...

I think the opinion should include the state and possible improvement and strength of our list. This should come under consideration in terms of "ultimate cost."

Re: Meesen - at least Hale is somewhat a proven player.