Robbie Flower

[Trisul 654]

Robbie was THE reason to go to the footy in those days.

Laugh, cry, wonder at his dominance in a desolate time for the Demons.

Thank-you Robbie.

Thank-you.

[binman 39,417]

I've been reading the board for a bit and was inspired to join as i wanted to reply to profs "best team" post a week or so ago (which when i work out how to find it i will do!) I saw the robbie link and loved it. I following footy in about 75 and started going regularly in about 78 (when i was 11) and of course saw countless losses in those early years. Watching robbie owning the members wing helped me maintain my passion. I don't reckon i knew another dees supporter at primary or high school and Robbie gave me at least one thing to pump up about the redlegs to all the roos, hawks, blues and maggies fans.

I remember being furious with Barrassi when he started playing Robbie on the half back flank - after 4-5 of games of it i stormed to the rooms after another flogging and demanded of the wisened door man to let me see Barass so i could let him know what i thought of his "strategy". The old fella told me Barass might know a bit more about the caper than me and then told me to bugger off (in hinsight Barass actually was a bit ahead of his time, with each team now needing a creative half bank flanker who can run)

One element of Robbie's game that i thought has always been underestimated by commentators and other club's fans was his ability to play at such a consistent level of intensity and performance when for so long he played in such unsuccessful teams. He never dropped his head, never shirked the contest, always gave his all. That is the mark of a true champion. He was also terrific at bringing other players into the game, whichh is highlighted in the you tube clip. How many of those runs, weaves etc end in him didhing off to a team mate. Obviously i am biased but i have never understood how commenators such as Mike Sheean do not rate him more higly when they complie "best teams" and top 50's. In my time of watching footy the best i have seen have been Matthews, Carey, 2 of the 3 Abletts (sorry Geoff) and Robbie (not in that order). I have no doubt he is up with the best in the modern era and would be my first choice as captain. As others have noted he really shoeed his class and heart when playing for the Vics and they were always games i loved to watch.

As other as noted he would absolutely kill in todays game, with his run and carry, huge tank, great hands and beautiful kicking skills (off both wings). Funnily enough he was always such a skinny bugger and looked out of place amongst some of the monsters. Today with the more atheletic running players he would look like half the league. In terms of physique Morton actually reminds me a bit of Robbie, being so tall and lanky. Some similarities in terms of time with the ball, good skills and good overhead. Perhaps i should tell Bailey to stick him on the wing!

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Better. By some margin.

He would.

These seem like such big calls. Not saying they're wrong or anything, but Ablett will go down as one of the greatest of all time. In fact he's going to come pretty close to his Dad, who it's hard to be considered better than. I'm sure Robbie was and is great, but could it be a bit of parochialism to say he's better than Ablett? Or is it perhaps that people here don't regard Ablett as any good?

Just on that video... I couldn't help but think that's basically EXACTLY what you'd want to see on a video for a player you were looking to recruit. Wispy, clever, fast, and clever-moving player who can mark and kick. Besides being a bit smallish (not that it hurt his footy), he's pretty much the exact archetype of what you'd want in a modern-day footballer.

Is there anyone on our list that is of a similar build that could move like that? Not to his level, but to play the same role/game as he did? I can think of only possibly Blease.

[Akum 2,660]

These seem like such big calls. Not saying they're wrong or anything, but Ablett will go down as one of the greatest of all time. In fact he's going to come pretty close to his Dad, who it's hard to be considered better than. I'm sure Robbie was and is great, but could it be a bit of parochialism to say he's better than Ablett? Or is it perhaps that people here don't regard Ablett as any good?

But would Ablett jnr be anywhere near as good in a team that wasn't as good? In a team that finished low on the ladder for year after year? In a team that couldn't apply sustained pressure all over the ground? Doubt it myself. Not saying that Ablett isn't good, but he's playing in probably one of the best teams of all time.

[beelzebub 22,697]

Robbie Flower = Football poetry in motin

My all time fav Demon.... in a way before his time. Had perfected run and carry before anyone dreamed up that expression. To watch him glide across the G was a priviledge. Happy memories )

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

These seem like such big calls. Not saying they're wrong or anything, but Ablett will go down as one of the greatest of all time.

As big as that one if your reference is to Ablett junior?

[Hannabal 4]

But would Ablett jnr be anywhere near as good in a team that wasn't as good?

And that's the key and it's also the reason that Flower's legacy is undersold when 'best of' lists and teams are re-created. Yes he was rated very highly and was named on the wing in the HS's team of the decade in the 70's and 80's, but he'd be remembered for being greater than he is if he'd played at a successful club. He's also marked down for just the one B&F. He should have been named on the wing in the team of last century.

He was better than Greig and his ability was never exemplified better than when he shone as a Victorian player. When playing with the best of the best he regularly stood out as in a class of his own.

[Robbie57 1,996]

Week after week i went out to see them play and he was the shining light.

He was stick thin and didn't look like a champion but no one could touch him.

I have no doubt he was better than Ablett or Judd and most of the players of his time.

Good players always look better in good teams, Robbie had to struggle on so many of his efforts were unrewarded or recognised because of the team he was in.

I reckon he was always underestimated because he didn't look like a footballer.

[Red Sox 2]

These seem like such big calls. Not saying they're wrong or anything, but Ablett will go down as one of the greatest of all time. In fact he's going to come pretty close to his Dad, who it's hard to be considered better than. I'm sure Robbie was and is great, but could it be a bit of parochialism to say he's better than Ablett? Or is it perhaps that people here don't regard Ablett as any good?

Just on that video... I couldn't help but think that's basically EXACTLY what you'd want to see on a video for a player you were looking to recruit. Wispy, clever, fast, and clever-moving player who can mark and kick. Besides being a bit smallish (not that it hurt his footy), he's pretty much the exact archetype of what you'd want in a modern-day footballer.

Is there anyone on our list that is of a similar build that could move like that? Not to his level, but to play the same role/game as he did? I can think of only possibly Blease.

Nice to be open minded Dan but Robert Flower was a superstar. I am of the opinion, probably biased, that Melbourne's great champions aren't anywhere near recognised as many of the other clubs. The debate a couple of weeks ago about our golden era and the players involved not being represented in the hall of fame as would be expected highlights this further for me. Maybe that's down to say Hawthorns 80's era being played out in a more commercial age than the dees 50's/60's teams, but again I would say there are players from other teams in that era more recognised than some of ours, except internally of course.

Robbie was everything that Ablett is. Probably different in the way that Ablett is evasive through the tackle and Robbie was more evasive in open space and going around the player. The blind turn and the balk...don't see that enough today!

[Tarax Club 3,277]

Gooday, I have been an observer for a fair time of this site and am now a participant for the very first time! Unfortunately I lived interstate for many years during robbie's career as I do now in Darwin. My first memmory was seeing Robbie playing for the big V in Perth 1976. Talk about a parochial atmosphere. Of course the sandgropers beleieved they invented aussie rules too. But if my memory serves me well robbie was a star and the Vic's won the game. My fondest memory of robbie flower was 1987 at the MCG against the dreaded collingwood when slightly built robbie took a fantastic pack mark 20 metres out at the Jolimont end and of course kicked a great captain's goal. The D's went on to win a closely fought game.

[Guest Rojik of the Arctic]

Robbie was everything that Ablett is. Probably different in the way that Ablett is evasive through the tackle and Robbie was more evasive in open space and going around the player. The blind turn and the balk...don't see that enough today!

Ahhh. Robbie's blind turns. I don't think I've ever seen anyone that could do them like him and he could take a pack mark - not often maybe, but when he went for them they stuck. We were very lucky to have him in those dark days.

[beelzebub 22,697]

Ahhh. Robbie's blind turns. I don't think I've ever seen anyone that could do them like him and he could take a pack mark - not often maybe, but when he went for them they stuck. We were very lucky to have him in those dark days.

Flower was in his own fashion a freak. Slightly built by todays needs etc he glided around the park like a gazelle His ability to read the opposition and wrong foot them was worth the price of atmittance on any day. I will never forgive Dipper and Lethal for their cowardly act that day. How Flower never got a Charlie is beyond my understanding. Robbie Flower..a champion amongst champions )

[DirtyDees DDC 171]

Great video. Interesting that he was predominantly a right foot player (not a bad other foot either) but bounced the ball on his left. looks like opponents had trouble reading his change of direction. Can we still sign him up?

[dee-luded 2,958]

I remember being furious with Barrassi when he started playing Robbie on the half back flank - after 4-5 of games of it i stormed to the rooms after another flogging and demanded of the wisened door man to let me see Barass so i could let him know what i thought of his "strategy". The old fella told me Barass might know a bit more about the caper than me and then told me to bugger off (in hinsight Barass actually was a bit ahead of his time, with each team now needing a creative half bank flanker who can run)

As other as noted he would absolutely kill in todays game, with his run and carry, huge tank, great hands and beautiful kicking skills (off both wings). Funnily enough he was always such a skinny bugger and looked out of place amongst some of the monsters. Today with the more atheletic running players he would look like half the league. In terms of physique Morton actually reminds me a bit of Robbie, being so tall and lanky. Some similarities in terms of time with the ball, good skills and good overhead. Perhaps i should tell Bailey to stick him on the wing!

HaHaha, or maybe the half back flank, LOL,LOL.

Nice post Binman, & welcome aboard mate...Go Dees...

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

But would Ablett jnr be anywhere near as good in a team that wasn't as good? In a team that finished low on the ladder for year after year? In a team that couldn't apply sustained pressure all over the ground? Doubt it myself. Not saying that Ablett isn't good, but he's playing in probably one of the best teams of all time.

Yeah, see this is one of those footy-tragics debates that has two sides to it. On one hand you have the people who mark a player higher if he's successful. If he plays in flags and is "decorated." On the other you have the apologists who excuse great players in poor sides as being better because they had no "help." There's two sides to it, and to be honest, I can see it from both sides. But neither is right OR wrong.

As big as that one if your reference is to Ablett junior?

Sigh...

Most football followers will have Ablett JR up in the highest class by the end of his career. Not an outrageous statement. He's in the the top 2-3 players in the league by EVERYONE'S standard. Well... anyone who's not playing one-upmanship on an internet forum. Has been for a few years now and will continue to be. And he's not even that old.

His side was underachieving in the years leading up to their successful period, and one of the major changes (besides Selwood) has been the fact that Ablett took a step to being elite a handful of years ago. He does it all... And who's to say Robbie would have done MORE when surrounded by good team-mates.

Debates have been going for a while now about who is better between he and his old man, and while Sr may be ahead at the moment, Jr has plenty of years left to bridge the gap. And just the fact that the two are being compared at all, shows that...

No RR. It's not a big call at all. GAJ is one of the best I've ever seen. I won't compare he and Flower myself, as that would be pointless...

But I will make a comment on this site that PERHAPS there's some parochialism going on here in regards to Robbie. It may well be true that he's better... but it's CERTAINLY only a matter of opinion.

And I'd be interested to see the opinions of current and past coaches/players when comparing the two. Certainly in the football world, I doubt in 5 years many outside of Melbourne will have Robbie ahead of Gary. Not that that's necessarily the way it should be.

[Go the Biff 3,211]

His side was underachieving in the years leading up to their successful period, and one of the major changes (besides Selwood) has been the fact that Ablett took a step to being elite a handful of years ago. He does it all... And who's to say Robbie would have done MORE when surrounded by good team-mates.

Debates have been going for a while now about who is better between he and his old man, and while Sr may be ahead at the moment, Jr has plenty of years left to bridge the gap. And just the fact that the two are being compared at all, shows that...

I'm too slack to give your post the attention it (and the subject) deserves but briefly :

I would have GAJ ahead of Flower in three categories - straight-line speed, goal kicking & physical strength. Ablett is phenomenally strong through the core & upper legs & has a capacity to break tackles seemingly at will. Flower was more evasive & avoided or slipped tackles so the need to break them wasn't there.

Flower was quick but not an out & out lawnburner. I think another of Ablett Jr's great strengths is his acceleration. Has a great gear change.

I give Flower the nod in your basic hand & foot skills, particularly field kicking. Ablett has more strings to his bow in kicking for goal but Flower played in an era when banana kicks were rare, let alone the dribble & bounce goals kicked today. I've no doubt he could have mastered the art though.

Flower would kill Ablett Jnr in the air. I once watched him take 17 marks in a game against Richmond. Almost all overhead & contested. Most in packs as he was being used as the go-to option from kick-outs. The Tiges were awake-up to it but still couldn't stop him.

The question as to whether Flower would have done more when surrounded by good team-mates was answered, I believe, in his performances for Victoria. I can't begin to think what he would have done in the current Geelong side.

The man played at a time when there were a lot of fantastic wingers including Greig, Schimma, Mickey Turner, Bryan Wood, Ricky Barham, Dennis Collins, Joffa Cunningham just to name a few. He could make good players look like first-gamers. It's a great pity he played in rubbish teams who were rarely on TV. That, as much as anything, has diminished his reputation as Hannabal suggests.

If you're ever fortunate enough to speak with another great Melbourne winger Alan Johnson (terrific bloke BTW) ask him about Flower.

No idea how old you are Dappa so I'm not sure who I can give as a comparison for you. If you saw Peter Matera at his best, that's getting close to what Flower produced most weeks.

[Hannabal 4]

Yeah, see this is one of those footy-tragics debates that has two sides to it. On one hand you have the people who mark a player higher if he's successful. If he plays in flags and is "decorated." On the other you have the apologists who excuse great players in poor sides as being better because they had no "help." There's two sides to it, and to be honest, I can see it from both sides. But neither is right OR wrong.

Anybody that has an ounce of understanding of our great game knows that it's far easier to play well in a good side. Take out some of the middle tier players at Geelong and put them in Richmond's side and you'll see a far more fallible footballer.

[H_T 2,941]

Gooday, I have been an observer for a fair time of this site and am now a participant for the very first time! Unfortunately I lived interstate for many years during robbie's career as I do now in Darwin. My first memmory was seeing Robbie playing for the big V in Perth 1976. Talk about a parochial atmosphere. Of course the sandgropers beleieved they invented aussie rules too. But if my memory serves me well robbie was a star and the Vic's won the game. My fondest memory of robbie flower was 1987 at the MCG against the dreaded collingwood when slightly built robbie took a fantastic pack mark 20 metres out at the Jolimont end and of course kicked a great captain's goal. The D's went on to win a closely fought game.

Welcome TT, hope to read more posts from you and your memories. I didn't see much of Robbie in the 70's (ie.0-6yrs), I've only ever seen old footage snippets. However, I did see plenty of him throughout the 80's and playing junior footy I tried to emulate him - baulk here, baulk there, blind turn here, blind turn there, snap, goal. Your memory of Perth 1976 for the Big V was pleasing to read as I haven't seen much of that State Of Origin game.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Most football followers will have Ablett JR up in the highest class by the end of his career. Not an outrageous statement. He's in the the top 2-3 players in the league by EVERYONE'S standard. Well... anyone who's not playing one-upmanship on an internet forum. Has been for a few years now and will continue to be. And he's not even that old.

"Most football followers" is a term used to justify the unprovable and implausible. He is well on the way to being highly ranked but the greatest ever..Dipping into hyperbole again Dan.. The team of the century had Bourke, Stewart, Greig, Barassi, Skilton and Williams on the bench. Greater than them. Also noting that this team does not consider champions of the past decade like Hird, Voss and Buckley who all have legitimate claims for recognition. His father over the course of his career was a freak but only got on the AFL TOTC bench. So I am not sure while you are tutting other posters comments on Flower when you have gone for a bit of licence yourself

His side was underachieving in the years leading up to their successful period, and one of the major changes (besides Selwood) has been the fact that Ablett took a step to being elite a handful of years ago. He does it all... And who's to say Robbie would have done MORE when surrounded by good team-mates.

Geelong made the finals from 2004 onwards so you are really scrambling for facts if you want to claim Geelong were underachieving like Melbourne during Ablett juniors time. Flower had 14 barren years with MFC prior to 1987. There is adequate proof about Flower's performances at State of Origin (when it meant something then). He had a number of BOGs for the Big V in that company. He excelled at that high level. He was in his final year one of the prime on field catalysts as to why we made the finals for the first time in 23 years. He was peerless in the 2 finals he played. He did his collarbone early in the PF. There is sufficient evidence.

GAJ is one of the best I've ever seen. I won't compare he and Flower myself, as that would be pointless...

OK so I now know who "Most football supporters are". B) Agree the comparison is pointless.

But I will make a comment on this site that PERHAPS there's some parochialism going on here in regards to Robbie. It may well be true that he's better... but it's CERTAINLY only a matter of opinion.

How much of Flower's career did you actually see Dan? He is easily the best MFC player a nunmber of have seen by a long stretch. He was as good as and even better than any of his illustrious contemporaries. He maintained that standard throughout his long 15 year career. So why shouldn't he be revered on here. And yes its a matter of opinion so why knock the parochialism when all you offer is your own big statement about the future?

And I'd be interested to see the opinions of current and past coaches/players when comparing the two. Certainly in the football world, I doubt in 5 years many outside of Melbourne will have Robbie ahead of Gary. Not that that's necessarily the way it should be.

Your pointless exercise again. Asking current players would be a waste of time because the oldest would have been at most 12 years old when Flower played his last game. Many of the younger coaches like Voss, Scott would also fall into that category as well. I dont see the purpose of it.

The fact is that both Flower and Ablett junior will be and should be recognised as brilliant footballers over their careers above the pointless [censored] for tat that might go on.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

.....

Some good thoughts Biff on Flower.