Israel Folau signs with GWS?

[bananas 428]

Furthermore, it shouldn't be ignored from our perspective that the signings of Karmichael & Izzy cut out $1m that would otherwise have been free to throw at our young guns. These big risks take a chunk out of their pulling power for their 'free agency' type opportunities.

I could be wrong, but my understanding was that both Hunt and Folau's contracts would be outside the salary cap as some sort of special dispensation to the new clubs. So they get to splash cash on these guys, and still have all of their (already enlarged) salary caps to use for poaching.

[Roost It 1,434]

I think we might find that both will start their careers classed as rookies and won't be part of the salary cap. I could be wrong but I remember reading something to this effect when Hunt signed with GC. Both clubs will be targeting our best players over the next few years.

[Inner Demon 1]

I could be wrong, but my understanding was that both Hunt and Folau's contracts would be outside the salary cap as some sort of special dispensation to the new clubs. So they get to splash cash on these guys, and still have all of their (already enlarged) salary caps to use for poaching.

You're off the mark on a couple of fronts:

1) Hunt & Folau do not fall outside the salary cap. They are on something in the neighbourhood of $600K/year as far as TPP is concerned. The balance of their contract is paid by the AFL for marketing & promotions.

2) Neither GC or GWS have inflated salary caps, this illusion is created by the high proportion of their list consisting of draftees on standardised contracts around $60K/year which leaves them with a huge amount of cap space to spend on recruiting senior players from other clubs

[Doggo 32]

The guys 195cm, 102kg.

He has supreme pace, agility, evasiveness. His marking will be elite.

If O'Hailpin can make it from hurling, no doubt Falau can make it.

Very jealous, wish he was coming to the demons

How do u figure? I've seen Folau fluff a few high balls before in the NRL (like everyone there seems to, do any NRL players actually know how to 'mark' a ball without looking completely lost judging the flight?)

[Carlos Danger 380]

This is absolutly massive. I think he will be able to take quite a few contested grabs in a game. How he kicks them is another thing. Either way this is massive.

More than a few contested grabs. And he will bring new definition to 'breaking packs'.

[Tricky 337]

How do u figure? I've seen Folau fluff a few high balls before in the NRL (like everyone there seems to, do any NRL players actually know how to 'mark' a ball without looking completely lost judging the flight?)

I'm sure he has fluffed a few - who in the AFL never has? His high ball/contested marking ability is generally undisputed.

He will however need to mark out in front on the lead, run & bounce, handball, spear-pass (as opposed to spear-tackle) all whilst developing a 360 degree awareness.

It's gonna be interesting and I'll be tuning in to watch, along with the hordes of similarly intrigued "football" lovers from both codes, so job done from a marketing perspective.

[Sir Why You Little 35,295]

Bye Bye NRL This is your Swan Song Beginning now.

(still cannot believe the Storm are winning games for no points) I bet the Sydney sides would have fallen if given the same penalties.

I despise the idea of the GC17 & GWS, but if we are stuck with them, then i at least hope they can pay their bills so that Victorian clubs are not under worse pressure-North Melbourne excluded, they are already the walking dead.

[beelzebub 22,697]

interesting

A History of Code-switchers

Folau...Hunt ..yeah...who's to say they might not make a decent player or two !!!!

[Sir Why You Little 35,295]

interesting

A History of Code-switchers

Folau...Hunt ..yeah...who's to say they might not make a decent player or two !!!!

Always good to remember Sean Wight. He really was a Top Line defender particularly during the 87 run to the finals & Finals. Nobody could read him as to what he was going to do.

He would be still a remarkable player today.

[Guest DeesPower]

I disagree.

Well. I agree, if I was a fan of one of these clubs I'd want us to do what the demons and Freo are doing now. Work from the bottom up.

But for my part I reckon these two clubs will more likely do what Freo did over their journey so far. I don't reckon a strong club culture, and fearsome reputation are bought with money. At least, I don't reckon money is ALL it takes. These two clubs don't just walk into a flag. They have to earn it over a period of time. And in the interim, I don't see what the harm is to the AFL in this stunt... except perhaps to the AFLPA who must be ropable with how much money is going north. Oh, and of course the NRL who with this news, lose one of its biggest stars.

The Folou and Hunt thing is a PR stunt that will play it's part in getting these clubs in the news and in the minds of footy fans. At the same time they're completely raping two drafts, and getting plenty of legitimate good players in an age where drafting has become a more exact science.

They'll go back to play league once they're found out, and realise that at best they'll be just ok players. Better to be a big fish in a small pond, than a medium sized fish in a big pond. And by that stage AFL will have become all the more colourful for it.

And in the meantime... Melbourne will be showing these johnny-come-latelies how it's done.

I think it is very clever marketing by the AFL. Make no mistake, these guys are seriously talented ball players, and over a couple of seasons will become very valuable, and they can teach other players some skills which are central to Rugby League which are not to AFL, tackling being one, running the lines being another. I think they will both become extremely good players for their respective clubs.

Having lived in Sydney for the last three years, I know the NRL and their clubs are spitting chips over this. They simply cannot match the AFL dollar, and they know it. If these two players make a go of it in AFL, then watch a mass exodus of premium talent follow them from Rugby league.

Rugby League, a horrible game in my opinon (unlike Union), is doomed to be a marginal sport in Australia within 5 years thanks to the AFL.

Edited June 1, 2010 by DeesPower

[Sir Why You Little 35,295]

I think it is very clever marketing by the AFL. Make no mistake, these guys are seriously talented ball players, and over a couple of seasons will become very valuable, and they can teach other players some skills which are central to Rugby League which are not to AFL, tackling being one, running the lines being another. I think they will both become extremely good players for their respective clubs.

Having lived in Sydney for the last three years, I know the NRL and their clubs are spitting chips over this. They simply cannot match the AFL dollar, and they know it. If these two players make a go of it in AFL, then watch a mass exodus of premium talent follow them from Rugby league.

Rugby League, a horrible game in my opinon (unlike Union), is doomed to be a marginal sport in Australia within 5 years thanks to the AFL.

That's not what Ray Hadley said this morning on SEN...he was all dismissive of it, but yes off air i bet he was heartbroken!!! only one of these guys need to make it and the walls of the NRL will crumble.

[H_T 2,941]

I think it is very clever marketing by the AFL. Make no mistake, these guys are seriously talented ball players, and over a couple of seasons will become very valuable, and they can teach other players some skills which are central to Rugby League which are not to AFL, tackling being one, running the lines being another. I think they will both become extremely good players for their respective clubs.

Having lived in Sydney for the last three years, I know the NRL and their clubs are spitting chips over this. They simply cannot match the AFL dollar, and they know it. If these two players make a go of it in AFL, then watch a mass exodus of premium talent follow them from Rugby league.

Rugby League, a horrible game in my opinon (unlike Union), is doomed to be a marginal sport in Australia within 5 years thanks to the AFL.

Phil Gould expressed concern last year regarding the state of play in the NRL. His concern was the salary cap, how it was comparitively small compared to the AFL. On top of that was what he had witnessed at grass roots levels, the NRL weren't putting enough money in at junior development. He had noticed the AFL was gradually transforming school yards and parks with Auskick clinics and goal posts were being erected in place of Rugby League/Union goal posts. He even confronted NRL boss David Gallop about this time last year on the NRL Footy Show, asked what were the plans the NRL had to counteract moves by the AFL in NRL territory.

Other questions Gould asked Gallop: -

Why weren't the NRL competing well for the corporate dollar ?

Why didn't the NRL look at increasing the salary cap to pay the players to stay in the game - instead of jumping over to Union at the time ?

Of course, this was on the back of Sonny Bill Williams defection to Union and numerous players heading over to Europe for more money.

What steps were the NRL putting in place to minimise the AFL's impact in it's move into Rugby League territory (GWS) ?

I remember thinking at the time when Gallop was answering Gould's tough and direct questions, that the AFL have got him by the short & curly's. Inside he was bleeding....but so was Phil Gould whom loves his rugby league dearly.

[Sir Why You Little 35,295]

Phil Gould expressed concern last year regarding the state of play in the NRL. His concern was the salary cap, how it was comparitively small compared to the AFL. On top of that was what he had witnessed at grass roots levels, the NRL weren't putting enough money in at junior development. He had noticed the AFL was gradually transforming school yards and parks with Auskick clinics and goal posts were being erected in place of Rugby League/Union goal posts. He even confronted NRL boss David Gallop about this time last year on the NRL Footy Show, asked what were the plans the NRL had to counteract moves by the AFL in NRL territory.

Other questions Gould asked Gallop: -

Why weren't the NRL competing well for the corporate dollar ?

Why didn't the NRL look at increasing the salary cap to pay the players to stay in the game - instead of jumping over to Union at the time ?

Of course, this was on the back of Sonny Bill Williams defection to Union and numerous players heading over to Europe for more money.

What steps were the NRL putting in place to minimise the AFL's impact in it's move into Rugby League territory (GWS) ?

I remember thinking at the time when Gallop was answering Gould's tough and direct questions, that the AFL have got him by the short & curly's. Inside he was bleeding....but so was Phil Gould whom loves his rugby league dearly.

I like Phil Gould & genuinely feel sorry for these guys, But it's too late. When the NSWRL became the NRL that was the chance they had for the Corporate $ (But then the Super League didn't work so maybe they did try)

The Back Bone of the Riugby League was always the League's Clubs & i don't think these are nearly as populiar anymore. Cost of living, no smoking etc etc. Attendances or memberships have never been even close to the VFL/AFL ever.

Edited June 1, 2010 by why you little

[Guest DeesPower]

Phil Gould expressed concern last year regarding the state of play in the NRL. His concern was the salary cap, how it was comparitively small compared to the AFL. On top of that was what he had witnessed at grass roots levels, the NRL weren't putting enough money in at junior development. He had noticed the AFL was gradually transforming school yards and parks with Auskick clinics and goal posts were being erected in place of Rugby League/Union goal posts. He even confronted NRL boss David Gallop about this time last year on the NRL Footy Show, asked what were the plans the NRL had to counteract moves by the AFL in NRL territory.

Other questions Gould asked Gallop: -

Why weren't the NRL competing well for the corporate dollar ?

Why didn't the NRL look at increasing the salary cap to pay the players to stay in the game - instead of jumping over to Union at the time ?

Of course, this was on the back of Sonny Bill Williams defection to Union and numerous players heading over to Europe for more money.

What steps were the NRL putting in place to minimise the AFL's impact in it's move into Rugby League territory (GWS) ?

I remember thinking at the time when Gallop was answering Gould's tough and direct questions, that the AFL have got him by the short & curly's. Inside he was bleeding....but so was Phil Gould whom loves his rugby league dearly.

Yes Gould was asking the obvious questions but supplying none of the answers. The reason? There aren't any. The AFL Commission since its formation have been running rings around the NRL which remains controlled by the clubs and through them News Limited. When the AFL Commission was set up, the relative national power between the AFL and the NRL as codes was relatively even. Both were almost broke and very amateurishly run organisations. As were most of the Clubs. Soon after that, the NRL/ARL had their so called rugby wars with the Super League which tore the game apart and handed a lot of the power to Kerry Packer and News Limited via the so called peace deal.

Since then under almost any measure the ARL has gone backwards and the AFL has become by far the most powerful and richest sports organisation in the country. The peace deal in the ARL/NRL if anything held the code back because they did not get the competitive bidding going between free to air television stations the AFL did because Packer controlled it and Murdoch had his slice via his ownership of Fox Sports. A nice cosy arrangement, but disastrous for the NRL.

Today the NRL has none of the powerful demographics the AFL has which makes the game so attractive to television stations. The AFL is strong across the board: male/female, income groups, geographies, age groups. The NRL is very strong in lower income males in Queensland and NSW. It is a very limited base. The efforts to expand a la the AFL into Perth and Adelaide floundered because the NRL Clubs via the NRL itself did not have the stomach for the inevitable losses these clubs were incurring, and the Clubs control the League unlike the AFL. Melbourne only survives because News Limited owns it and bank rolls it, but that is unlikely to last. In spite of the bluster from the NRL, their new television deal will not come even close to the likely $1B plus the AFL will achieve. Their game is in terminal decline, and in spite of this, the Clubs are unable to agree on an AFL - style commission, and are unlikely to in the near future.

This is why the poaching by the AFL of very high profile players to the new AFL franchises is so clever. The game does not have the resources nor the money to combat these raids, nor the resources on the ground to develop an AUSKICK Style program. No doubt, the NRL will try to match the AFL expenditures in an effort to defend their base, which will further exacerbate their parlous financial position, leading to further long term decline. It is, if you like, a classic corporate play against a weak and declining rival. Besides, there is very strong evidence that once both kids and supporters (apart from the die-hards) are exposed to the AFL they realise it is a better game to play, and a much more attractive game to watch, both live and on television. People also like being associated with winners, and the AFL are certainly winners.

I predict within ten years , Soccer and the AFL will be the major codes in this country, and eventually Rugby League will be forced to merge with a professional, fully international Rugby Union organisation.

And hooray for that I say.

Edited June 1, 2010 by DeesPower

[beelzebub 22,697]

THe ONLY thing keeping RL above water curretnly is the NEWS interest and the fact that still so much of Telly is Sydneycentric. That and NSW in general have this myopic view about the world. even these two outfits wont be able to ignore the simple reality of things in the coming years as slowly but surely AFL makes inroads into all areas even those considered League strongholds. Eventually the sheer weight of numbers will pull the emphasis from one to the other.

I really had/have my misgivings about the AFL spending so much on GWS. I think ( still) its going to cost them a lot more than even they think to do 'the job' but putting my own thoughts aside for the present and looking at the prospect , should it follow the AFL's time-line , thenLeague is ...well and truly up against the ropes. Once as mentioned it was the Leagues Clubs thatwere the big force in pokies etc in NSW but now that effective monopoly has ben eroded the revenues and interest in these places has diminished considerably.

With GC and GWS I suppose the AFL has the real chance to sway allegiacies away whilst still maintaining the 'rage' between these locales.

Ironically as it hadnt really occurred to me before as such but the AFL with GWS is somewhat mimmicking the MFC at Casey. i.e starting from the ground up build a rapore with a locality ( region ) and building generationally. Make no mistake there are a few clubs in the NRL thatare realy strugling financially but unlike the AFL the NRL doesnt have either the resources or will to back them forever. One by one they will fold or merge again. I note that there has been quite a bit of disinteret in some clubs over the years since major mergers and relocations have happened, each time diluting the passion. The AFL to its credit ( and often sheer luck ) has come out of this far better.

At some point ol' Rupert is going to tire of handing out money hand over fist for smaller and smaller returns to speak nothig of the hassle his darling game is experiencing.

There is a change a coming to our northern brethren....and its a lot more powerful than they think still. once the AFl breaks its ( NRL ) back..its all over, bar the shouting and any player worth anythig will have ben attracted to Union, further diminishing the ranks.

The times, they are a changin'

[e25 5]

I think there are 2 modes of thought in relation to how much Karmichael and Folau are being paid.

One is the AFL/club view that the money is well spent because of the extra media coverage and interest these players generate.

No matter how they go on the field, these signings have boosted the exposure exponentially over the next year or more leading up to the point where they play their first game.

Even if the players fail, the interest has been generated up to that point, which they simply would struggle to do otherwise.

So these contracts are more than just the signing of a player - they are an investment in the game's future in these areas. An investment where the EARNED VALUE is much greater than the money spent.

The other mode of thought is the Voss/player view - how can one player be worth such an exorbitant amount of money? How can a player that has NEVER played the game at a professional level possibly be worth that much, or be worthy of being the best paid player in the game?

How is that fair to the other players who have played the game all their lives? How is it fair to the superstars who have to accept much much less??

The latter view is narrow-minded and fails to take into consideration the marketing value of these players.

The players themselves aren't worth the money, but the situation they find themselves in, they are some of the luckiest professional athletes in history.

Never again will their market value be higher and it is not because of their on-field ability, but rather the attention they will bring to the game.

Ablett may be the best player in the game, but he is already ours. If he signs with one of the new teams it will be huge news WITHIN the sport.

Sure, his transcends sports and generates respect, but for the average RL fan his switching of teams is relatively meaningless.

Even if people watch Folau and Hunt in their first matches to see them fail, they may also came away with a respect for some aspects of the game and remember that #23 went alright, looks like he could be good.

It's really all about plating seeds and capturing the imagination of 'foreign' sports fans and no one can do that better right now than the 2 converts.

Edited June 2, 2010 by Enforcer25

[titan_uranus 23,071]

And there's even more pressure on these two to succeed at AFL level. Players who, admittedly, do it tougher coming through the draft, have little to no pressure unless they're a top draft pick. These two are going to be scrutinised so heavily, and they'll be expected to lead their teams from the get go. Another reason why the salary they're getting isn't as bad as some make it out to be.

[Tricky 337]

And there's even more pressure on these two to succeed at AFL level. Players who, admittedly, do it tougher coming through the draft, have little to no pressure unless they're a top draft pick. These two are going to be scrutinised so heavily, and they'll be expected to lead their teams from the get go. Another reason why the salary they're getting isn't as bad as some make it out to be.

Another key difference regarding the perceived pressure these code hoppers will feel vs the draftees, is the former can go back to their native code and more or less pick up where they left off. (as they have been known to do)

[Mega_Watts 70]

2) Neither GC or GWS have inflated salary caps, this illusion is created by the high proportion of their list consisting of draftees on standardised contracts around $60K/year which leaves them with a huge amount of cap space to spend on recruiting senior players from other clubs

I rarely post, but I just want to clear up this misconception that I have seen posted a few times recently:

GC17 and GWS absolutely do have Salary Cap concessions in their first few years.

For GC17 this starts at $1m extra and reduces to nil in year 5.

For GWS this starts at $1m extra and reduces gradually to $520k. (I believe this is the same "cost of living" allowance Sydney currently gets).

This extra money is partly to pay for the extra approximately 8 players they have on their list in year 1. (Again the number of extra players gradually reduces to zero in year 5).

Although as you point out, all these "extra" players wil be on $50-60k, so there will still be some money left over to splash on some big guns.

Sources:

Gold Coast rules

GWS rules

Edited June 2, 2010 by Mega_Watts

[Go the Biff 3,211]

Chris Judd, Matthew Pavlich or Cyril Rioli could sign for GWS today & it would barely create a ripple in Sydney, particularly the west

Folau creates a bloody great splash

The AFL are already getting a return on their investment in him

A thousand Auskick clinics won't do that

[Guest Thomo]

For GWS this starts at $1m extra and reduces gradually to $520k. (I believe this is the same "cost of living" allowance Sydney currently gets).

Sources:

Gold Coast rules

GWS rules

I've never understood this. Does Port and the Crows have a smaller salary cap than Melbourne because the cost of living is lower in Adelaide? Why is this question never raised??

Back on topic, the Daily Telegraph today had Folou on the front page, and the last seven pages were dedicated to him, with the recurring story that he is not worth a $1 million per season, and that AFL will not succeed in Sydney because nobody cares about it and it will get no exposure. Do you think that they understand the irony in this??

Money well spent.

[Nasher 33,244]

The other mode of thought is the Voss/player view - how can one player be worth such an exorbitant amount of money? How can a player that has NEVER played the game at a professional level possibly be worth that much, or be worthy of being the best paid player in the game?

How is that fair to the other players who have played the game all their lives? How is it fair to the superstars who have to accept much much less??

The latter view is narrow-minded ... Never again will their market value be higher

I think you've touched on one of the core reasons why the "Voss" argument is silly. Once Hunt and Folau, and anyone else who comes in to our code this way start playing games of footy and their true ability at our sport comes to the fore, their salaries will level out appropriately. It's a one time "give our code a crack and we'll make it worth your while" offer. Subsequent contracts - if offered and accepted - will be at market value. If the goal is to attract big names from other codes (which it clearly is), then I don't see any other way of doing it since their actual market value is unknown. They're clearly not going to accept the base first year player salary. I don't see Voss offering up any suggestions on how to accomplish it either.

I just can't see how these signings can be anything but good for our sport.

[Nasher 33,244]

Chris Judd, Matthew Pavlich or Cyril Rioli could sign for GWS today & it would barely create a ripple in Sydney, particularly the west

Folau creates a bloody great splash

The AFL are already getting a return on their investment in him

A thousand Auskick clinics won't do that

Absolutely spot on.

[beelzebub 22,697]

Credit where credit is due, the Afl are at the coal face and winning the media pr battle already.

They are getting League off the front AND. back pages of papers in Leagues backyard. Already in the minds of some young kids AFL is a legitimate path where last week it wasn't.

Make no mistake NRL will soon go code red and be pannicking.

Lol Sheedy must be loving it !!!!

Voss etc are missing the point... The world and it's playing fields have just changed..... Big time.

[Keyser Söze 0]

Not long now before the Darwin Turtles sign Jared Hayne...