Alternative Jumpers - St.K v Ess

[titan_uranus 25,020]

If we give in and wear white we will convince they AFL that all is sweet cherry pie. They will take no action and it will be expected that we will forgoe our jumper each time we meet The Scum. Make no mistake.

So in essence nothing will be achieved, The Dons go on the merry way without following the same rules as all other 15 clubs have.

Why must it be that if we take the option of removing any possible clash between the clubs because Essendon won't, that we won't still pressure the AFL into making a fairer system? I'm sure if we end up deciding that we'd prefer to wear white to remove the clash, despite it being our home game, that we'd only be angier and more determine to go to the AFL and set this right. If we start this war, North Melbourne will follow us into battle. They have the exact same problem.

[Vagg 2,439]

If we give in and wear white we will convince they AFL that all is sweet cherry pie. They will take no action and it will be expected that we will forgoe our jumper each time we meet The Scum. Make no mistake.

So in essence nothing will be achieved, The Dons go on the merry way without following the same rules as all other 15 clubs have.

Agreed, Balls! Time to draw a line in the sand...!

[Guest Balls_Grinter_14]

Again, if this becomes the norm and we are going to have 5 or more games a year in an 'alternate strip' please let's develop a meaningful and marketable option. Something like the one above or this one below, perhaps with MFC logo in the middle. The interstate clubs all have 2 jumpers, which are all very marketable, the Victorian clubs are not as good in this area because we emphasise our traditional strips. With 18 Clubs in the comp by the end of 2012, this issue is going to keep coming up.

[Roost It 1,434]

No team should wear a clash jumper and the umpires should wear a red shirt and black shorts with red socks

[Guest Balls_Grinter_14]

Again, if this becomes the norm and we are going to have 5 or more games a year in an 'alternate strip' please let's develop a meaningful and marketable option. Something like the one above or this one below, perhaps with MFC logo in the middle. The interstate clubs all have 2 jumpers, which are all very marketable, the Victorian clubs are not as good in this area because we emphasise our traditional strips. With 18 Clubs in the comp by the end of 2012, this issue is going to keep coming up.

Or

[Inner Demon 1]

You can probably save yourselves some time on the dream clash guernsey designs guys. Jimmy wanted the Demon back. Everyone said they also wanted the Demon back. We've now got the Demon back as well as an entirely red & blue clash strip. The club isn't going to waste energy year on year trying to make everybody fall in love with the guernsey we're only forced to wear 2-3 times each year.

[Sir Why You Little 37,038]

I still think that if we came up with something like below we would see more and identify mo0re with the jumper.

That doesn't look like an MFC jumper at all....Footscray colors in my Book.

Essendons Trad jumper is less of a clash than the attempted clash jumper they submitted, so let both teams play in the Trad jumpers-Umpires in white (just like the old days)

[Eth 4]

No team should wear a clash jumper and the umpires should wear a red shirt and black shorts with red socks

I'd love that

[Guest Balls_Grinter_14]

You can probably save yourselves some time on the dream clash guernsey designs guys. Jimmy wanted the Demon back. Everyone said they also wanted the Demon back. We've now got the Demon back as well as an entirely red & blue clash strip. The club isn't going to waste energy year on year trying to make everybody fall in love with the guernsey we're only forced to wear 2-3 times each year.

I still debate whetehr the demon was truly voted back. I voted on that pole and it was very close the whole time. Would Change between 51% and 49%. The announcement was supposed to be made by the Olympic Park gig last year. There was still no winner. So I think at the end of the day, they did a bit of eeni meeni minie ..mo!

Why wouldn't the club roll out a new preseason/clash strip every year ID? They make money from selling them. everyone wants something 'gimmicky'. I remember as a kid, having to have each new jumper each season if so far as much as the sponsor's logo changed.

Brettmcg has a bit of marketing knowledge. Wonder what he thinks....

The above designs are no less Footscray than our current jumper design Why You Little. Have u seen the white clash jumer.? Hmmm!. IMO our Red clash jumper looks like a very cheap training jumper.

Take a leaf out of Pt Adelaides book people, the jumper is still a powerful (no pun intended) tool in marketing AFL clubs!!

Edited May 18, 2010 by Balls_Grinter_14

[red&blue&true 0]

Why must it be that if we take the option of removing any possible clash between the clubs because Essendon won't, that we won't still pressure the AFL into making a fairer system? I'm sure if we end up deciding that we'd prefer to wear white to remove the clash, despite it being our home game, that we'd only be angier and more determine to go to the AFL and set this right. If we start this war, North Melbourne will follow us into battle. They have the exact same problem.

We dont need to goto battle.

We just need to wear our home strip. Which is our right. The footy community will fight the battle for us.

A clash is preferable to rolling over on this.

[red&blue&true 0]

You can probably save yourselves some time on the dream clash guernsey designs guys. Jimmy wanted the Demon back. Everyone said they also wanted the Demon back. We've now got the Demon back as well as an entirely red & blue clash strip. The club isn't going to waste energy year on year trying to make everybody fall in love with the guernsey we're only forced to wear 2-3 times each year.

All the more reason to wear the jumper we already know everyone is in love with at every possible oppurtunity.

[Sir Why You Little 37,038]

The above designs are no less Footscray than are current jumper designs. IMO our Red clash jumper looks like a very cheap training jumper.

That is exactly why i despise the idea of Clash jumpers. White is not a part of our Club Colours-never has been.

We do not represent the Western Suburbs. We are Melbourne "The Team of the RED & the BLUE"

[Inner Demon 1]

Why wouldn't the club roll out a new preseason/clash strip every year ID? They make money from selling them. everyone wants something 'gimmicky'. I remember as a kid, having to have each new jumper each season if so far as much as the sponsor's logo changed.

Brettmcg has a bit of marketing knowledge. Wonder what he thinks....

IMO our Red clash jumper looks like a very cheap training jumper.

I also have a marketing degree, so I will share my thoughts on that question if you'd like.

Having a new clash guernsey designed every year and set into production is costly. They don't sell in nearly large enough volumes to justify this cost. Considering the only guernsey sales the club actually sees any revenue from whatsover are those through the shop in Brunton Ave and online, the revenue from sale of guernseys is insignificant at best.

Furthermore, the to-ing and fro-ing with the AFL in getting the new clash guernseys approved, (the AFL must approve them to be non-clashing against the guernseys they have already deigned to be clashes with our regular strip), is still more time wasted by the limited resources of the club over a comparatively insignificant matter, considering the number of other pressing matters for the club to attend to.

And judging by his stance in another thread recently, I would be amazed if Brettmcg backflipped from being dead against a one-off strip change in the name of charity to being supportive of an annually changing strip.

[H_T 3,047]

My take on alternative jumpers is this:

If you're the home team, you wear your traditional home jumper. No exceptions. If the AFL then believes there is a clash between your home jumper and the away team's home jumper, they ensure that the away team wears an alternative strip, such that there is no clash. Prior to any season the AFL should tell each club which other clubs there may be a clash with, and it becomes the club's responsibility to design an alternative strip that works for its clashes.

There should never be an instance where the home team is forced to wear an alternate strip to their traditional one just because the away team hasn't got an alternate strip that removes the clash (examples being North Melbourne at home to Collingwood, St Kilda home to Essendon, Melbourne home to Essendon (there's a theme here, see it?)).

In this case, if Essendon's alternate strip didn't remove the clash with St Kilda, then they need a new alternate strip. Simple as that.

We're on the same page.

because if both clubs wear their "away" jumper. Essendon win. They wont come up with another clash jumper they'll just expect everything to be fine because we rolled over this time. Roll over once, and people expect it from you.

That was my point earlier in the thread. Despite everything looking rosy with no clash, the fact is we would be seen to have rolled over and risk never being able to play Essendon again in our traditional jumper. As you say, Essendon would effectively "win".

The important option is we wear our jumper (as Schwabby says we now will), we stand our ground which enables to force further discussion on the Bombers clash jumper (which will be bound to happen - a la Mark Robinson who loves Bomber articles) and let the AFL and Essendon re-commence discussion on a new clash jumper for the Bombers when they play St.Kilda & Melbourne away for the 2011 season and beyond once approved and all are satisfied.

[Sir Why You Little 37,038]

We're on the same page.

That was my point earlier in the thread. Despite everything looking rosy with no clash, the fact is we would be seen to have rolled over and risk never being able to play Essendon again in our traditional jumper. As you say, Essendon would effectively "win".

The important option is we wear our jumper (as Schwabby says we now will), we stand our ground which enables to force further discussion on the Bombers clash jumper (which will be bound to happen - a la Mark Robinson who loves Bomber articles) and let the AFL and Essendon re-commence discussion on a new clash jumper for the Bombers when they play St.Kilda & Melbourne away for the 2011 season and beyond once approved and all are satisfied.

I agree with both your points HT, but i wonder on one Level. Where Between Essendon & St.kilda is the Clash?? St.kilda's Home Jumper has white in it. As do their socks End of story for me.

This includes playing in a stadium with a roof...I compare this to watching these 2 teams at Moorabin or windy hill

The Population is to dam soft now, that's the problem!!!!

Edited May 18, 2010 by why you little

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

You can probably save yourselves some time on the dream clash guernsey designs guys. Jimmy wanted the Demon back. Everyone said they also wanted the Demon back. We've now got the Demon back as well as an entirely red & blue clash strip. The club isn't going to waste energy year on year trying to make everybody fall in love with the guernsey we're only forced to wear 2-3 times each year.

Exactly. I still shudder at that silver monstrosity.

[45HG 1,539]

I agree with both of your points HT, but I wonder on one level. Where between Essendon & St. Kilda is the clash? St. Kilda's home jumper has white in it, as do their socks. End of story for me.

This includes playing in a stadium with a roof. I compare this to watching these 2 teams at Moorabin or Windy Hill

The population is to damn soft now, that's the problem!

I've edited your work, you can now complete your good copy.

[Sir Why You Little 37,038]

I've edited your work, you can now complete your good copy.

You truly are an enigma 45, i will give you that-took me a few reads to work out what the F&*%$k was going on!!!!!! B)

[H_T 3,047]

You truly are an enigma 45, i will give you that-took me a few reads to work out what the F&*%$k was going on!!!!!! B)

You still haven't fixed it WYL !

Why let 45HG16 go to all that trouble of translating your post for everyone, when you won't even provide a good copy ? Just promise everyone one thing....take it on board, won't you ?

45, you'll have to bump that match review panel thread again. You're on the panel. I won't interfere.

[Sir Why You Little 37,038]

You still haven't fixed it WYL !

Why let 45HG16 go to all that trouble of translating your post for everyone, when you won't even provide a good copy ? Just promise everyone one thing....take it on board, won't you ?

45, you'll have to bump that match review panel thread again. You're on the panel. I won't interfere.

I write like that because i know it irritates him!!! He is a teacher, they cannot stand grammar mistakes....

[Guest Balls_Grinter_14]

I also have a marketing degree, so I will share my thoughts on that question if you'd like.

Having a new clash guernsey designed every year and set into production is costly. They don't sell in nearly large enough volumes to justify this cost. Considering the only guernsey sales the club actually sees any revenue from whatsover are those through the shop in Brunton Ave and online, the revenue from sale of guernseys is insignificant at best.

ID - do you know this for a fact? My understanding is all sales of AFL licensed merchandise is a small portion of revenue for the clubs. As it the clubs who own the branding. The AFL owns the merchandise. Therefore the clubs receive royalties on sales of goods? I may be wrong, but I thought the deal is we get 100% of profit from The Demon Shop. That is why we are encouraged to buy from them.

"They don't sell in nearly large enough volumes to justify this cost"

I accept your point. But if we have a strong clash jumper, isn't it only going to sell more. Therefore more $$ to the club? I used the example of the 'Heritage round' jumpers in another thread last week. The club only orders a small number of these for sales and they, almost without fail, sell out every year. Therefore based on sales figures and the number of orders they would get, they would re-order more. I see clash jumper sales in much the same way, if people are interested in buying them order a few to begin with then more if necessary. But you will only sell a heap if they are decent. Currently no-one wants a clash jumper.

Edited May 18, 2010 by Balls_Grinter_14

[Inner Demon 1]

ID - do you know this for a fact? My understanding is all sales of AFL licensed merchandise is a small portion of revenue for the clubs. As it the clubs who own the branding. The AFL owns the merchandise. Therefore the clubs receive royalties on sales of goods? I may be wrong, but I thought the deal is we get 100% of profit from The Demon Shop. That is why we are encouraged to buy from them.

"They don't sell in nearly large enough volumes to justify this cost"

I accept your point. But if we have a strong clash jumper, isn't it only going to sell more. Therefore more $$ to the club? I used the example of the 'Heritage round' jumpers in another thread last week. The club only orders a small number of these for sales and they, almost without fail, sell out every year. Therefore based on sales figures and the number of orders they would get, they would re-order more. I see clash jumper sales in much the same way, if people are interested in buying them order a few to begin with then more if necessary. But you will only sell a heap if they are decent. Currently no-one wants a clash jumper.

I do know that for a fact. You are correct that we get 100% of the profits from sales in The Demon Shop but we don't see a cent of sales from Rebel Sport, for example. Mind you, that's fairly irrelevant to this particular discussion as you would probably find it hard enough to find MFC home guernseys in many stores, let alone any clash guernseys. I also think you would be surprised at how well the clash guernseys currently sell in our shop. Just because you don't want one doesn't mean nobody else does.

On balance, considering the level of investment of both time and money to come up with new designs for a new clash guernsey every single year, the amount of money the club could reap from all this work would be minimal, if not negative. Yes, the one-off guernseys like Heritage sell well, but that's because they are match-worn and have added value as a result. They don't have those guernseys sitting on the rack in the shop.

[Guest Balls_Grinter_14]

On balance, considering the level of investment of both time and money to come up with new designs for a new clash guernsey every single year, the amount of money the club could reap from all this work would be minimal, if not negative. Yes, the one-off guernseys like Heritage sell well, but that's because they are match-worn and have added value as a result. They don't have those guernseys sitting on the rack in the shop.

Inner Demon, you truly are right off the money mate, with all due respect. They are match worn>? And what the clash jumpers arn't? We are not talking about the ones worn by the players, but rather those sold at Shops, including the AFL store. So what added value are you banging on about? Time and money to come up with new designs? I knocked those up yesterday in under 2 minutes mate? U familiar with photoshop and Microsoft Paint.Net ? Not all taht hard. The production is all done overseas. They would cost the exact same to produce as this years. All that is said is "ok. After August 2010 no more of Item A is to be manufactured. Instead we would like x amount of Item B in its place? Where is the cost increase exactly? Same colours and dyes?

I really think you are a bit out of touch mate. Your marketing expertise may be from another time perhaps.

[Inner Demon 1]

Nope, you just don't understand how this stuff works in reality.

The term "match-worn" refers to the guernsey actually being worn in a match on the back of a competing player. For example, James McDonald comes off the field, takes off his guernsey, signs it, and it is then sold through the shop. That is what happens with those one-off guernseys. They are totally different to the sales of clash guernseys. These sit on the rack all year long, selling in very low volumes, much the same as the regular guernsey until the end of the year when the inevitable 'fire sale' of stock comes along and they're sold close to cost.

The time and cost spent on designing and manufacturing the guernseys is one thing, it is worth noting this isn't done by a bloke sitting at a desk at the club while munching on a sandwich, Reebok has to do it and there's lengthy consultation processes undertaken between Reebok & MFC, then MFC & AFL, then back to MFC & Reebok and round and round until we get what we have.

I'm not out of touch, I'm up to the minute.

[Hobbits's 17]

You're right ID. I wouldn't bother, save your breath. Or in this case, save your fingers.