where is the forward line?

[DemonSG 1]

Dean Bailey an also ran Essendon defender organising our forward line????. His forward line tactics are a failure.

This has been coming all season and now the opposition are on to it. No player forward of the middle when defending, ball rebounds and f... me no forwards in our attacking half. Goes on all game, week after week and no change of game plan.

Bailey needs to seek some advice on how to implement alternative attacking tactic's before he destroys the forward line players confidence altogether.

Johnson has been tried many times (before Baileys time at the club) at full forward as a resting ruckman and failed, how long do we have to watch that experiment.

I love the way we are trying to play but christ, if there is no one in the forward line when the ball comes in...I feel very sorry for our forwards including Jack Watts and whoever else is meant to score goals.

Dean, ask for help or engage some former forward line players, they will tell you someone has to be in the bloody forward line to kick goals if we are to win.

Was pleased with Jack's performace today and he will be a player no doubt, just needs some time.

[Felix 92]

Dean Bailey an also ran Essendon defender organising our forward line????.

what?

[MadAsHell 4,212]

No Jurrah

No Petterd

No Wonna

Bate playing injured

Watts in his 4th game

Sylvia had a shocker!

That's out 6 man forward line for the season 2010, and in the event Petterd doesn't go North it will be the forward line we'll hopefully be able to get on the park next year, they'll click eventually, but were decemated today.

[DemonSG 1]

what?

Can't read...or do you mean Watt???

[DemonSG 1]

Check the thread, they could all be there but if they are all running around the back line when the ball is going forward...hello!!!

[Batemania 4]

It really frustrated me today the way we set up our attack at stoppages. We pushed all our forwards up to the contest which meant we had numbers around the ball, but the eagles players dropped off and made us go hanball happy. On the contrary to us, West Coast always had a couple of stationary forwards (Lecras, Kennedy) who meant they didnt have to hold onto the ball

[Felix 92]

Can't read...or do you mean Watt???

"Can't write" to me it is incoherent. How about you read the sentence out loud? And you tell me it makes sense.

Dean Bailey an also ran Essendon defender organising our forward line????.

[heartbeatstrue 57]

Dean, ask for help or engage some former forward line players, they will tell you someone has to be in the bloody forward line to kick goals if we are to win.

It has been pointed out the forward-line players we were missing today.

For your information, Josh Mahoney is our forward line coach (played 97 matches for Port Adelaide, Bulldogs and Collingwood, including the Port Adelaide premiership side of 2004).

It is not DB's fault that today's team played with no intensity for 4 qtrs. You could have plonked Plugger at full forward and the way our midfield was beaten today, he would have kicked zip. This is what happens to young inexperienced sides. Consistency takes time and huge effort from the coaches. DB and his coaching team are doing an amazing job, and we all just have to accept that experience and confidence and big bodies all take many weeks to develop. Along the way, there will be losses like today.

Geelong in 2006 was experimenting with young skilful players and quick movement by hand and foot. They lost 7 out of 8 games and were accused of chipping the ball around too much, instead of long direct kicks to goal. Geelong finished tenth, missed the finals and there were many calls for Mark Thompson's head to roll. The following year it all clicked, and they won the flag. The rest is history.

DB is an excellent teaching coach for our young group, imo. He'll learn how to motivate and fire them up. I've no doubt he's highly respected by the players. He's probably learned something valuable from today too, and next time he sees the warning signs of a lacklustre performance coming on, he'll hopefully quickly fix whatever it is that gets into players heads and results in the whole team performing without intensity or confidence.

[heartbeatstrue 57]

And by the way, what did you make of our forward line against Brisbane? Same coach too. They simply looked a very different side, played with flair and confidence and got the ball quickly through the centre corridor and into the hands of leading forwards. This is how DB wants them to play. Today it all fell away, from the midfield to the forwards. However annoyed and frustrated we are, the coaches will be more so. Expect the players to get several roastings, and watch out Port Adelaide!

[1858 285]

It is not DB's fault that today's team played with no intensity for 4 qtrs.

He's probably learned something valuable from today too, and next time he sees the warning signs of a lacklustre performance coming on, he'll hopefully quickly fix whatever it is that gets into players heads and results in the whole team performing without intensity or confidence.

The second point kind of contradicts the first point but I agree with the gist of your over all post. Learning curve and all that.

--------

On the topic of the forward line, IMO we seem to take a naive approach to what constitutes an effective forward set up. I read words to the effect earlier this year that Bailey is all for "forward numbers" and that he wasn't too focussed on consolidating our personell in the way of KPP. If this is in fact a true indication of his thoughts on the matter then we are quite simply going to pay for it in the long run. I'm also sceptical of what Mahoney actually brings to the equation apart from (in all probability) being the most likely "yes man" of the coaching brigade. In any case I still beleive that Bailey is developing the squad well as a whole.

[heartbeatstrue 57]

The second point kind of contradicts the first point but I agree with the gist of your over all post. Learning curve and all that.

It's not meant to be contradictory, it's inevitable that a young and mainly inexperienced side will have losses like today along the general path to becoming a great side.

But with experience and building confidence and physical strength, the expectation is that such poor performances can be largely eradicated. That's where coaches need to know the warning signs and how to negate them.

I don't feel Bailey and co can be seriously blamed for today's poor showing. There are things that happen with young inexperienced sides that no brilliant coaching can address.

[heartbeatstrue 57]

On the topic of the forward line, IMO we seem to take a naive approach to what constitutes an effective forward set up. I read words to the effect earlier this year that Bailey is all for "forward numbers" and that he wasn't too focussed on consolidating our personell in the way of KPP. If this is in fact a true indication of his thoughts on the matter then we are quite simply going to pay for it in the long run.

Hadn't heard this, I guess you just have to work with what you've got. And there aren't too many gifted KPP coming on in the junior ranks it seems. Which is why Podsiadly works for GFC where they are at just now.

I was always keen on keeping Robbo (or picking up someone like Bradshaw) to take some of the pressure off Watts in his first couple of years (and maybe mentor him). Trouble with Green is we only have one of him.

I'm also sceptical of what Mahoney actually brings to the equation apart from (in all probability) being the most likely "yes man" of the coaching brigade. In any case I still beleive that Bailey is developing the squad well as a whole.

Hmmm... on grounds he used to play under Bailey at Port? Dunno, time will tell if he's any good. I don't feel we can judge Mahoney on these early games, because of both lack of experience in the team and the crop of injuries.

Agree DB's developing the squad well as a whole.

[1858 285]

It's not meant to be contradictory, it's inevitable that a young and mainly inexperienced side will have losses like today along the general path to becoming a great side.

But with experience and building confidence and physical strength, the expectation is that such poor performances can be largely eradicated. That's where coaches need to know the warning signs and how to negate them.

I don't feel Bailey and co can be seriously blamed for today's poor showing. There are things that happen with young inexperienced sides that no brilliant coaching can address.

Ok, a bit more context here - I understand where you are coming from.

Hadn't heard this, I guess you just have to work with what you've got. And there aren't too many gifted KPP coming on in the junior ranks it seems. Which is why Podsiadly works for GFC where they are at just now.

I was always keen on keeping Robbo (or picking up someone like Bradshaw) to take some of the pressure off Watts in his first couple of years (and maybe mentor him). Trouble with Green is we only have one of him.

I can't even remember where I read it so take it with a grain of salt. I am not one for making up things as fact, I simply read it somewhere and it stuck in my mind so I made an effort to point out the fact it could be misinformation.

I am so far in the dark with respect to future prospects it isn't funny but I still get a sense that we haven't played the percentages with respect to up forward over the years. Hopefully with our move to OP we may have a little more confidence in our future ability to develop players of all sorts and the club may go for some likely kids with a good frame and see if we can "bag one" and not be affraid to "get it wrong". In any case it was more the philosophy of it that worried me. As you say, JPod at the cattery. I realise the cats are at a different stage and JPod is a mature age player but even so, they aren't relying on just forward numbers and that is even with Mooney and Hawkins in the side as tall forwards along with their other accomplished forwards. Geelong are one of (if not the) best running side for forward numbers under pressure and yet they go for another tall forward and a risk I might add if it doesn't come off.

On Robbo, I thought we made the right call. I didn't think Bradshaw was such a contradictory suggestion at the time either as he would have straightened us up significantly. This point was missed on many simply due to him being in the twilight of his career which was a seperate issue.

Hmmm... on grounds he used to play under Bailey at Port? Dunno, time will tell if he's any good. I don't feel we can judge Mahoney on these early games, because of both lack of experience in the team and the crop of injuries.

Agree DB's developing the squad well as a whole.

In one sense I agree, given our stocks/injuries it is hard for him to make an impact but on another level I still have my concerns. It seems that every week our forward line changes based on the reactionary ins/outs of the week before - Miller/Newton/Martin/Hughes/PJ/Watts for example excluding injuries and it will continue like that all season. I just get the feeling Mahoney just goes with the flow and doesn't have a strategy that demands a consistent set up so we end up with a drop in centre. I realise Watts needs to be managed but still.

Edited May 15, 2010 by 1858

[Theo 272]

Yesterday showed that there is no obvious forward line stucture. The opposition defence seems to dictate where our forwards stand. On MMM Garry Lyon kept yelling out to our forwards to get back to the goal square. Too often our forwards got sucked up the ground with the WC defenders. Looking at the Cats last night they just toyed with Brisbane. Always had numbers at the ball and a foward line that knows exactly where to go when they have the ball.

Wouldn't it be great to go to a game with the result over at half time (in our favour). I hate hate Collingwood but I really admire the way they play and that you'll always get a contest. It's painfull going to a Melbourne game not knowing whether the've turned up to play or not. Scully said after the game that the players didn't have their minds right. This has been going on for years, we play well against teams we are not expected to beat and go missing in games we are extected to win.

We need to isolate those serial offenders and send them to Casey.

Yesterday was just hot potato footy. No composure, Handball, handball, handball few players wanted to take responsibity to make the play. As soon as they got the ball the first option was always to handball rather than look ahead and pick the best option. A 50-50 contest down the ground would have been better than a handball turnover closer to the WC goal.

Anyway, another week of frustration. We'll probably end up winning next week in Darwin then we play Geelong at Skilled Stadium. Agh.

[Tricky 341]

Yesterday showed that there is no obvious forward line stucture. The opposition defence seems to dictate where our forwards stand. On MMM Garry Lyon kept yelling out to our forwards to get back to the goal square. Too often our forwards got sucked up the ground with the WC defenders. Looking at the Cats last night they just toyed with Brisbane. Always had numbers at the ball and a foward line that knows exactly where to go when they have the ball.

I totally agree.

Our performance was down across the entire ground but that doesn't account for a non-existent forward line structure.

Having a depleted list is no excuse for a non-existent structure.

The personnel available on any given game day may influence the specific arrangement of the structure, but a structure must still exist.

I wasn't listening to the commentary during the game but this should have been obvious to anyone watching and I do not understand how it can be left to go for an entire game, or as the poster of this thread has implied, week after week. (at least the last 3)

Lack of FL structure results in confusion across the ground. How many times did we watch our defence and mid field work hard to get ball past the center line only to have to stop dead and resort to chipping sideways while we attempted to get numbers back. People are quick to vent frustration with "overuse of the ball" but this is a further symptom of the bigger problem of having an all too often empty forward line whilst attempting to attack.

Geelong in 2006 was experimenting with young skilful players and quick movement by hand and foot. They lost 7 out of 8 games and were accused of chipping the ball around too much, instead of long direct kicks to goal. Geelong finished tenth, missed the finals and there were many calls for Mark Thompson's head to roll. The following year it all clicked, and they won the flag. The rest is history.

confidence.

They experimented with ball movement, not empty goal squares.

It's not rocket science - you can't score if the 50 is empty.

[sylvinator 96]

Our forward line, it is clearly a work in progress and will not be at its potent best until 2012, once they have played 30 more games together as a unit.

But I think we all can agree the talent is there...

Bate- a really good forward imo. Played injured yesterday, but is the mobile CHF perfectly suited to modern footy

Green- As our midfield strengthens with all the midfield talent we've drafted (Morton, Strauss, Blease, Gysberts, Tapscott, Bail etc) Green will play more as a half forward. Strong in the air and accurate kick for goal. He is a genuine asset as a forward.

Watts- his marking and clean use of the footy will clearly be a weapon in 2 years time once he has 40 games under his belt

Pettard- has proven to be a very dangerous mid sized forward, who can take strong over head marks and apply forward pressure as well

Jurrah- has proven he can be a weapon with freakish marks and just as capable on the ground

Sylvia- is definitely a bit of a front runner atm, but we all hope that changes. No doubting his overhead marking and goal sense are going to be a weapon for us when we compete for finals

Wona- in 2008 he proved to be a very good small forward. X factor and genuine crumbing, forward pressure ability. Hope he can come good

Bennel- has proven to me he can be a really dangerous X factor type as a high half forward. Has some really A-grade attributes, which suggests he will be a weapon once he irons out his flaws

That's 8 genuinely talented options. 3 of those didn't play yesterday (Pettard, Jurrah, Wona). 2 have played less than 20 games (Bennell, Watts), 1 was injured in the first quater (Bate) and 1 had a shocker (Sylvia). Plus our midfield gave SHOCKING delivery! Can anyone honestly say they aren't excited by those 8 names.

Plus, I personally hope Morton can develop as more of a forward as his body fills out. Jetta and Maric could still potentially play roles in the forward line. Who knows about Fitzpatrick. Dunn has shown he can play a role as a high half forward. Martin is still developing. Davey can even play stints at half forward.

That's potentially another 7 options.

I think our forward line will develop very nicely over the next 2 years. It was always obvious we would struggle up forward this year due to inexperience. Injured to Pettard and Jurrah haven't helped.

We'll be fine.

Imo, the bigger issue is ensuring our midfield develops properly. Winning the midfield and kicking the ball properly to our forward is paramount to winning games. That's why i'm happy we drafted 4 first round midfielders last year.

[DeeSpencer 25,472]

GAME PLAN. Forward pressure - Midfield pressure - turnovers or easy ball from the backline - corridor footy - half forwards, full forwards.

YESTERDAY. No pressure - WC getting easy, deep and hard to defend forward entry, resulting in pressure on defenders and midfielders to get the ball out (resulting in not enough attacking play and too much sidewards crap), resulting in everyone moving up the ground, resulting in no forward line when we do win the ball back.

It's all related to other parts of the game.

The way we played in our wins this year combined with an improving forward line will see us kick plenty of scores.

[BAMF 4,300]

Needed to move Davey and Green as permanent forwards half way through the third quarter. Needed Johnson to go to the bench.

We really could have used Miller as a target across centre half forward yesterday.

I know Bailey is trying to get our players to get the game plan right, but im starting to get worried that there is no plan B.

Bailey would have to take a lot of credit for the loss.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Any of you strategists thought how who won the midfield yesterday and how we used the ball? Hmmm

[Guest The Boss]

Hmmm... on grounds he used to play under Bailey at Port? Dunno, time will tell if he's any good. I don't feel we can judge Mahoney on these early games, because of both lack of experience in the team and the crop of injuries.

Agree DB's developing the squad well as a whole.

An inexperienced team is exactly the reason why you should NOT have an untried head coach and inexperienced assistants. I have never been a fan of Bailey, and I will stake everything that I own that he will never coach MFC to a premiership.

The only good thing about Bailey's contract extension is that it expires at the same time as Paul Roos.

[Sir Why You Little 36,982]

An inexperienced team is exactly the reason why you should NOT have an untried head coach and inexperienced assistants. I have never been a fan of Bailey, and I will stake everything that I own that he will never coach MFC to a premiership.

The only good thing about Bailey's contract extension is that it expires at the same time as Paul Roos.

No i think Dean Bailey will learn a lot from yesterday. And i will be very interested as to what he says on ONE HD tomorrow night-The whole club does not switch on when we are favourites.

This issue is something that Jimma & Chris Conolly must address this week. I am actually glad the team is off to Darwin this week. Time to leave the comfort zone and learn to sink or swim real quick.

[Tricky 341]

Any of you strategists thought how who won the midfield yesterday and how we used the ball? Hmmm

Not entirely sure what you point is. Are you suggesting that the midfield is/was a bigger problem than the forward line?

Do you agree or disagree that it makes life hard for the midfield when there is a lack of forward structure or worse, no one in the fifty?

[agent_orange 0]

Maybe it wasn't Bailey's fault the players showed no intensity

but

his coaching and matchup today were shocking

He argues that we need to move the ball forward fast through the middle to score a goal yet we don't have one player in our forward 50 for most of the game!

Explain that one

I think Bailey blames the players alot in his press confrences but not his own coaching.

Simply outcoached yesterday.

[heartbeatstrue 57]

Not entirely sure what you point is. Are you suggesting that the midfield is/was a bigger problem than the forward line?

It was yesterday.

And it was hardly the coaches' fault, they'll be as mystified and frustrated as any of us why the midfield that tore Brisbane apart was so lacklustre yesterday.

[DemonSG 1]

It was yesterday.

And it was hardly the coaches' fault, they'll be as mystified and frustrated as any of us why the midfield that tore Brisbane apart was so lacklustre yesterday.

If the coaches are mystified as to why the midfield was beaten, then well and good, that is another problem they need to sort. The point still is, even if the middle midfield were on fire it is of little use if all the forwards are well past the fifty metre mark and the ball is sent continually sailing over their heads. How many times did this happen yesterday. Full forward means just that, play the bloody position and all the other forwards should be playing and covering theirs as well.