Bruce is a good player

[Miracle 89]

Cameron Bruce has never been a champion but since 2000 he has been and still is a good player.

I thought he played a good game but as usual there are demonlanders calling for him to be dropped

and one even stated he cost us three goals.

Am I missing something ? So to answer my own question I watched the game again. I only watched

Bruce and I often rewinded the tape to make sure I did not miss anything. Its amazing how much

you miss watching the first time. You often only remember the bad things. An example is Bate, he

made two bad mistakes ( kick into man on mark and not kicking to Petterd) everyone just remembers that

and not the many good things he did during match.

So this is my view on Bruce's game.

His role was to be a defender and due to the woods rotations he had many different opponents such Thomas,

Anthony, Cloke etc. His direct opponent did not kick a goal, he was never beaten one on one, and the

possessions his opponents had can be counted on one hand. He often blocked for his teammates allowing them to mark.

Leon Davis is difficult to tackle so how many of you remember that great tackle in the last quarter which

earned Bruce a free kick.

So as a defender he earned a big pass.

So I will now move on to his possession game and execution skills as everyone bags.

Tony Shaw bagged Bruce for a turnover that cost a goal in the first quarter, I'm sure a lot of you did to. Bruce marked the ball from full back and McKenzie ran passed for handball. Lets stop here, It is Mckenzie's responsibility to look ahead for clear space before demanding the ball. Bruce was facing the woods goal so its his responsibilty to make sure that no one is catching Mckenzie before he handballs. Bruce marked the ball and gave it to Mckenzie who was clear, Mckenzie ran a few metres but stopped because a woods player appeared behind Bruce, he panicked turned around and handballed to Bruce who had three players around him. He was tackled with a resulting goal. On this occassion Bruce did everything right but Mckenzie made the mistake.

Shaw had another go at Bruce for a handball to Bate. Yes it was low at Bate's knees but he received OK and gave

a good handball of. It was the next passage ( trengove) which made the error yet Bruce cops the blame.

Bruce had 19 possessions and they all and I repeat ALL hit the target. He did drop a chest mark from a kick in but he quickly gave a quick handball to a running defender which commenced another inside 50.

So in summary he beat his opponent all day and had 19 possessions which ALL hit the target.

So all you Bruce bashers out there, get hold of a tape and watch it with pen and paper. On the left had side

write all the good things he did and on the right the bad.

Please do not come back to me and state I remember this or I remember that. If you want an intelligent debate

tell me at what point it happened in the game.

[pringle 56]

Oh my lord here we go again. I'm not posting an opinion either way, just sooooooo sick of this topic. There are waaaaay too many Bruce bashers and they are waaay too vocal and they are entitled to be that way if they want, but I'm sick of reading about it... And before you say "well don't read this thread then", I am happy to say that I will still read it just to remind myself how over the top the bashing is. Just don't see why it needs to be done ad-nauseum. This is like the don't abuse Brock thread. Will only result in more abuse to Bruce... Gee, that rhymes. Grrrr.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

Shaw had another go at Bruce for a handball to Bate. Yes it was low at Bate's knees but he received OK and gave

a good handball of. It was the next passage ( trengove) which made the error yet Bruce cops the blame.

I agree with the thrust of what you are saying but I don't think he can be excused for that passage. He was under no pressure, there is no excuse for a handball like that, it robbed Bate of the half a second he needed and then in turn his handball was too high, I think it was actually Strauss the recipient, he was also robbed of the time/space as he had to jump to 'mark' this handball and because they closed in on him he panicked, looked sideways and spilt the 'mark'. Bruce's handball should have been a bullet Bate whose in turn would have been bulleted to Strauss, who should have had a clear second or two to send us into attack. So his handball was just a tiny bit off, but in domino effect style it cost us badly.. this is the game we are trying to play, several quick handballs until a player is in space but he ruined it with that daisy-cutter handball and it not only cost us a forward entry but a goal the other way. It is one thing for the kids to make these skill errors but you don't expect it from your 2nd most experienced player

[Summer Blease 0]

Bruce marked the ball and gave it to Mckenzie who was clear, Mckenzie ran a few metres but stopped because a woods player appeared behind Bruce, he panicked turned around and handballed to Bruce who had three players around him. He was tackled with a resulting goal. On this occassion Bruce did everything right but Mckenzie made the mistake.

Awareness. Bruce lacks it- Did Mckenzie call out for it? Either way, being the senior bloke of the two Bruce should have looked for a better option or even been aware where his opponents were. He does this a fair bit and just about every time it results in a score for the opposition which makes it more damaging IMO. Bruce is a consistantly solid contributer who turns it over once or twice for an opposition score. This is why he cops so much heat- more is expected of him. In saying all this we are definately a better team for having him in it at this point in time.

[praha 11,253]

He has a great football brain, but is a "give it to me" player with poor kicking skills. Once he's inside the forward 50 he is far too one dimensional, and hasn't been influential on a game in over 3 years. The game has passed him by.

[H_T 3,049]

Awareness. Bruce lacks it- Did Mckenzie call out for it? Either way, being the senior bloke of the two Bruce should have looked for a better option or even been aware where his opponents were. He does this a fair bit and just about every time it results in a score for the opposition which makes it more damaging IMO. Bruce is a consistantly solid contributer who turns it over once or twice for an opposition score. This is why he cops so much heat- more is expected of him. In saying all this we are definately a better team for having him in it at this point in time.

Agree with the awareness. The game is getting quicker and his decision making is at times indecisive/slower which leads to handballs (sometimes telegraphed) that lack "zing" (penetration) and put teammates under the immediate hammer, which in turn lead to turnovers.

Just on Bate, it's not the first time he has kicked into the man-on-the-mark (having said that this is not the first time I've brought it up either re: Bate). He needs to give himself more room between he and the man on the mark. Frustrating and should be rectified.

[Chook 15,023]

...

Thank God. I'm so glad there are people who watch games open to changing their minds. Here, you recognised people didn't like Bruce's game, so you watched it to see if they might be right. Props to you for that, as well as for stating examples of reasons why he was not crap. Why do we need a weekly Bruce, Bate, Watts, Dunn thread? Bruce's "terrible disposal," Bate's "ungainliness," and so on, too often cloud people's judgement of the good things they did. Watch the game, take in players' positives and see if they outweigh the negatives. If they do, then there's a good chance they helped their team win. If they helped their team win, you then need to ask, is there someone not in the team who could bring even more positives than negatives to the table? If so, then by all means talk about dropping them.

/Rant

[Hatchman 539]

He is a good player.

Good enough to play AFL level, but not great. Was never the same after the Guerra tackle

[Chook 15,023]

He is a good player.

Good enough to play AFL level, but not great. Was never the same after the Guerra tackle

Man, watching your avatar is like watching a horror movie. I don't know what's going to happen next, and I'm real scared.

[satyricon 267]

Thank God. I'm so glad there are people who watch games open to changing their minds. Here, you recognised people didn't like Bruce's game, so you watched it to see if they might be right. Props to you for that, as well as for stating examples of reasons why he was not crap. Why do we need a weekly Bruce, Bate, Watts, Dunn thread? Bruce's "terrible disposal," Bate's "ungainliness," and so on, too often cloud people's judgement of the good things they did. Watch the game, take in players' positives and see if they outweigh the negatives. If they do, then there's a good chance they helped their team win. If they helped their team win, you then need to ask, is there someone not in the team who could bring even more positives than negatives to the table? If so, then by all means talk about dropping them.

/Rant

If you want to see some really nasty vitriol being spat out about certain players, suggest you have a quick squiz at Demonology....there are a lot of 'keyboard heroes' who dish it out on a regular basis.......the only interesting bit it is the same players.

Bruce, Bate, Batram and Newton and everybody's new favourite Jamie (Squib) Bennell......I am all for construcitve criticism, but if a poster makes a statement about a player, they need to put some reasoning behind the observation.

Your last bit with the analysis is spot on.

[Keyser Söze 0]

He is a good player.

Good enough to play AFL level, but not great. Was never the same after the Guerra tackle

That's exactly it.

He's a good player. People expect him to be great.

The real problem is the discrepancy with supporters' expectations.

He could play a slightly better match than Maric, but afterwards we'd hear from fans how Bruce was rubbish and Maric was a revelation.

[StevenStretch 1]

Softest mature age player on our list.

Terrible kick.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Awareness. Bruce lacks it- Did Mckenzie call out for it? Either way, being the senior bloke of the two Bruce should have looked for a better option or even been aware where his opponents were. He does this a fair bit and just about every time it results in a score for the opposition which makes it more damaging IMO. Bruce is a consistantly solid contributer who turns it over once or twice for an opposition score. This is why he cops so much heat- more is expected of him. In saying all this we are definately a better team for having him in it at this point in time.

Sound post.

So he's not great. So what? Where is it written that he's supposed to be? Last round was a good effort from all 22, with a lot of errors. Bruce's defensive efforts were equal to any on the ground. Just because he doesn't rebound as well as Grimes or Frawley doesn't mean he should be hung drawn and quartered. Those two kids were taken way higher up in their drafts, and for good reason.

By the end of his career Bruce will be considered one of the great drafting successes. I'm proud he played for this club, and ashamed of some of our supporters for acting like they follow Richmond when his name is mentioned.

Go Brucey. Don't listen to the nuff nuffs (I doubt he ever has), your club loves you.

[Miracle 89]

Softest mature age player on our list.

Terrible kick.

Very poor and disapponting post and obviously cannot read.

My original post was ONLY about Cameron Bruce's game against Collingwood.

My point was how can anyone critize him for that game and want him to be dropped.

" Terrible kick" tell me exactly when he did a terrible kick on saturday

[Rogue 585]

Is handballing to someone's feet when you're under no pressure 'hitting the target'?

I guess it depends how you define target, but I wouldn't be talking it up.

[Chook 15,023]

Is handballing to someone's feet when you're under no pressure 'hitting the target'?

I guess it depends how you define target, but I wouldn't be talking it up.

If they still have enough time to dispose of it the way they would like to, then yes. But officially, even if you hospital handpass someone, it's still "hitting a target" as long as they take possession, despite the fact that the "target" you hit subsequently got creamed.

[Guest Balls_Grinter_14]

" Terrible kick" tell me exactly when he did a terrible kick on saturday

Which kick did you think was particularly good!! He is the worst kick on the list IMO. It is all do do with how he holds the footy. He releases both hands at the same time when dropping the ball onto his boot, giving him no control over the direction and height the ball is kicked. It is a fundamental football practice to guide the footy onto the boot. Bruce takes both hands off and does a swan like manouver before kicking the pill. The result is a kick off the side of the boot or alternatively, a high up an under kick that causes his teamates to become sitting ducks for defenders. Simple as that!!!

Aside from this Cam loves to get rid of the footy to a flat fotted teamate any time any physical pressure is imminent!! Most of the time it is perceived pressure but still he looks to 'pass the buck' on to an unaware teamate! Watch any game and you will find examples of this!!

I don't know what they teach down at Melbourne High, but there was something missed

[Chook 15,023]

Which kick did you think was particularly good!! He is the worst kick on the list IMO. It is all do do with how he holds the footy. He releases both hands at the same time when dropping the ball onto his boot, giving him no control over the direction and height the ball is kicked. It is a fundamental football practice to guide the footy onto the boot. Bruce takes both hands off and does a swan like manouver before kicking the pill. The result is a kick off the side of the boot or alternatively, a high up an under kick that causes his teamates to become sitting ducks for defenders. Simple as that!!!

Aside from this Cam loves to get rid of the footy to a flat fotted teamate any time any physical pressure is imminent!! Most of the time it is perceived pressure but still he looks to 'pass the buck' on to an unaware teamate! Watch any game and you will find examples of this!!

I don't know what they teach down at Melbourne High, but there was something missed

A few of Cam's kick-outs from points weren't too bad, he gave a few good handpasses to running players in the back-line, was involved in four of our goals, but did cost us one with that handpass to Strauss that was mentioned by the OP. All in all, he helped us more than hindered us. Far from our worst player on the week-end.

[satyricon 267]

Here is an experiment to try.....first run about 5km as flat out as you can, you can have breaks along the way, but only a maximum of twenty seconds each time.....then get in a small room and turn some noise on as loud as you can, put about three other people in the room.......then have two of your bigger friends 85-90k would be good, burst through the door into the room and run straight at you......you have to dodge them and also dodge the other three people there as well and handball the ball you have found on the floor of the room....through the open doorway into the hands of a friend you have standiing outside.......repeat twenty times in twenty minutes and see how many times you can successfully get to the friend outside

[Guest Balls_Grinter_14]

Here is an experiment to try.....first run about 5km as flat out as you can, you can have breaks along the way, but only a maximum of twenty seconds each time.....then get in a small room and turn some noise on as loud as you can, put about three other people in the room.......then have two of your bigger friends 85-90k would be good, burst through the door into the room and run straight at you......you have to dodge them and also dodge the other three people there as well and handball the ball you have found on the floor of the room....through the open doorway into the hands of a friend you have standiing outside.......repeat twenty times in twenty minutes and see how many times you can successfully get to the friend outside

Now practice this every weekend for 10 years!!! You should expect to be pretty good at it by then I would've thought

[Guest Rojik of the Arctic]

I like Bruce. He gets lots of it week in week out but geez he can be frustrating for all the reasons mentioned. If he could just pick a better target or hit up someone on the chest a couple more times a game we wouldn't be having this discussion. But he doesn't so we are.

[satyricon 267]

Now practice this every weekend for 10 years!!! You should expect to be pretty good at it by then I would've thought

My point is no matter how much practice, of the twenty probably a couple will not hit the target or you will be smashed.

Roger Federer practices everyday but still puts the ball into the net now and again.

We can all be very good standing by ourselves handballing to a number on a wall, but when the pressure is on.

How any posters can honestly say (if they have played the game), that they never missed a kick, handballed into fresh air or hospital passed.........probably only the ones that play their best games in their dreams (as we all have at one time or another)

Bailey wants them to take risks, it is bloody exciting, I can live with the errors, we stuffed up a couple of times than fought to get it back, only a couple of times did it cost us.

[Guest Balls_Grinter_14]

How any posters can honestly say (if they have played the game), that they never missed a kick, handballed into fresh air or hospital passed.........probably only the ones that play their best games in their dreams (as we all have at one time or another)

I play in the Ammo's and often miss targets and miss handballs, shank shots at goal. BUT I am not getting paid 200,000 odd k a year to play. So that arguement is flawed I am afraid!!!

These guys train every day basically for the majority of the year and in Bruce's case he has been around 10 years!!

Try again!!

[Yokozuna 1,004]

Satyricon that is one of the stupidest posts/excuses I have ever read.

You can try and justify his mistakes by using the noise, tiredness and the fact he has worked hard previously, which is fair enough, but if we all use that excuse I am guessing there is never a reason for any mistakes on the football field.

I am not sure, but just remind me of whether or not he is a professional football player who has had over 10 years to perfect his craft.

If I was to continually make mistakes in my workplace, for which I have been at for over 10 years, I am not sure if I would still be employed.

All being said, I still like Bruce in our team, he does offer some versatility and flexibility. However, I do think he will begin to struggle for a place in the team mid to late next season.

[Guest Balls_Grinter_14]

Satyricon that is one of the stupidest posts/excuses I have ever read.

You can try and justify his mistakes by using the noise, tiredness and the fact he has worked hard previously, which is fair enough, but if we all use that excuse I am guessing there is never a reason for any mistakes on the football field.

I am not sure, but just remind me of whether or not he is a professional football player who has had over 10 years to perfect his craft.

If I was to continually make mistakes in my workplace, for which I have been at for over 10 years, I am not sure if I would still be employed.

All being said, I still like Bruce in our team, he does offer some versatility and flexibility. However, I do think he will begin to struggle for a place in the team mid to late next season.

SPOT ON!!!!!!!