Footy Classified

[ICU2 Jerry Jerry 257]

Garry Lyon should know better. He is obviously quite close to Jimmy and the club in general, and to fuel speculation about Bailey at this stage is really damaging. Yes, he is a journalist, and has the responsibility to ask questions, but it would be very easy for him to play a straight bat. Even if he thought bailey was the worst coach in the world he shouldn't be eroding the confidence in his position when he knows Bailey has a year to run. I see it as injudicious at best, mischievous and disloyal at worst.

He must feel pretty strongly about it then seeing as if Bailey goes it would be a a bad look for Gary knowing how big a part he had to play in the appointment of Bailey.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

One of the things that disturbs me the most was the way the older players performed, they were terrible. We can prattle on forever about how young we were and how we are learning, but the simple fact is that some of the new players were much better than those that have been there for a couple of years or more.

We are playing a terrible style of football at the moment and in fact we have been since Danners introduced Run and Carry a few years ago. I reckon we are going nowhere and in fact backwards, we are no closer to a winning style of football than we were 3 to 4 years ago.

I can't see why we are playing a game that inhibits our opportunity to score and effectively concedes defeat after half a quarter which is when we start to flood.

[Lost Highway 31]

One of the things that disturbs me the most was the way the older players performed, they were terrible. We can prattle on forever about how young we were and how we are learning, but the simple fact is that some of the new players were much better than those that have been there for a couple of years or more.

We are playing a terrible style of football at the moment and in fact we have been since Danners introduced Run and Carry a few years ago. I reckon we are going nowhere and in fact backwards, we are no closer to a winning style of football than we were 3 to 4 years ago.

I can't see why we are playing a game that inhibits our opportunity to score and effectively concedes defeat after half a quarter which is when we start to flood.

In fact, we play nearly as badly as in the darkest days of Balme - remember that dismal day against the Crows, when we kicked about 5 goals and Gutnick mercifully pulled Balme's plug out of the socket?

I sometimes think there is a misunderstanding about the rules of the game in our side. They seem to have the impression that the opposition must always be allowed to score the first five goals.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

In fact, we play nearly as badly as in the darkest days of Balme - remember that dismal day against the Crows, when we kicked about 5 goals and Gutnick mercifully pulled Balme's plug out of the socket?

I sometimes think there is a misunderstanding about the rules of the game in our side. They seem to have the impression that the opposition must always be allowed to score the first five goals.

Yes I do recall that and I remember when Balme first coached the club and we went backwards for a while but after a transition period we started to move forward. Ultimately we parted company and it was for the best he was going nowhere and neither were we.

The last 3 years have been dreadful and we just don't seem to be getting any better. The Senior players don't seem to have have a handle on our game plan and they have been under Bailey for 2 years, how long is it going to take?

I wish it was only a five goal start we allowed.

[demons27 1]

At first thought I actually considered Thomas may be right about this.

He may still be, but it occured to me that Ross Lyon has a very similar calm relaxed demeanor.

In any case, he is correct that Bailey would be one of the best assistants.

Pity we will never have a chance to get him in that role.

The big difference is Ross has a game plan the team can understand and largely deliver upon. He is also

respected by the players and sets high standards for them to live up to.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

We are playing a terrible style of football at the moment and in fact we have been since Danners introduced Run and Carry a few years ago.

Round 1, 2007 to be exact. Good old Runs and Curry.

[45HG 1,539]

The big difference is Ross has a game plan the team can understand and largely deliver upon. He is also

respected by the players and sets high standards for them to live up to.

Hrm. He also has Riewoldt, Hayes, Goddard, dal Santo, Montagna, Fisher, Milne, Gilbert, Gram and Baker - a large core of quality and experienced players who have played footy for over 5 years. Even so, in his first year the Saints didn't play finals in his first year in charge because his quality and experienced players weren't able to quickly adapt to his style of play. But don't let that get in your way.

Bailey has Davey and Green. He sets high standards for our players, they just seem largely incapable of living up to them. His core, experienced players include Miller, Dunn, Bartram, Bell and Johnson. The other most experienced players are under 23 (Bate and Jones), just hitting his straps (Sylvia), in the twilight of their careers (Bruce and Mcdonald) and a ruckman who may have just found that he has straps (Jamar).

And how in the world would you know if the players respect him?

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

Is the time for testing over because you are sick of losing, or because it's what is best for the development of the team?

Winning is best for the development of the team, I see no benefit in having a whole lot of kids running around in a team that gets flogged most weeks.

[45HG 1,539]

Round 1, 2007 to be exact. Good old Runs and Curry.

For the love of us all - can you just put 'Since Round 1, 2007' in your sig so you don't have to put it in every post you make

Edited March 30, 2010 by 45HG16

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

Hrm. He also has Riewoldt, Hayes, Goddard, dal Santo, Montagna, Fisher, Milne, Gilbert, Gram and Baker - a large core of quality and experienced players who have played footy for over 5 years. Even so, in his first year the Saints didn't play finals in his first year in charge because his quality and experienced players weren't able to quickly adapt to his style of play. But don't let that get in your way.

Ross Lyon is an interesting one. In his first year he was overly defensive, without doubt his plan has evolved (tweaked) over time to become more attacking because it was clear that St Kilda were just too defensive.

[Adzman 2,085]

I wish deep down in my heart that the reason we are light years behind the rest of the comp is due to our coach. I think the truth is there are some deeper questions that need answering, yes the coach is one- but our list and recruitment need to also get a fine look over.

Bails may not have been able to combat and create a strategy to help us on the weekend, but he sure as hell wasn't the one hand passing to the opposition and dropping easy marks.

It is clear that all us dees fans are out for blood. We have been patient in this "development phase", but development usually means going forward. Getting flogged by an undermanned hawks is far from what I would call development of any kind.

If the development starts and we push the pies this weekend maybe we can start to put this behind us. Odds are against that happening.

[demons27 1]

He must feel pretty strongly about it then seeing as if Bailey goes it would be a a bad look for Gary knowing how big a part he had to play in the appointment of Bailey.

I think Garry now knows they made a poor decision to appoint Bailey in the first place and this was further exascerbated by the premature extension to his contract. I have a feeling Gazza will finally make a run at the coaching role later this year....or at least be instrumental in replacing Bailey......

Ffootball clubs are not like normal workplaces.....you get very passionate about wanting success and everyone should be able to have a say on how to achieve this. It is for the ex-players to support the club and to do this in they best way they can.....so come on Garry.....I think it's nearing the time for you to step up to the plate......making heaps of money in the media would be nothing compared to coaching the D's to their next flag.

[Sir Why You Little 34,615]

Ross Lyon is an interesting one. In his first year he was overly defensive, without doubt his plan has evolved (tweaked) over time to become more attacking because it was clear that St Kilda were just too defensive.

Ross Lyon Drummed Defence into St.kilda in that first year until it has become 2nd nature to all on the ground-then & only then did he let the Team play attack.

But as 45 said Ross inherited a fine bunch of cattle to work with, so he was able to fast track his theories.

[dee-luded 2,958]

Yes I do recall that and I remember when Balme first coached the club and we went backwards for a while but after a transition period we started to move forward. Ultimately we parted company and it was for the best he was going nowhere and neither were we.

The last 3 years have been dreadful and we just don't seem to be getting any better. The Senior players don't seem to have have a handle on our game plan and they have been under Bailey for 2 years, how long is it going to take?

I wish it was only a five goal start we allowed.

The past 5 years have been dreadfull. I don't know about you, but I could see the list failings & the pitifull soft unphysical efforts we were putting in with cheap kicks collecter on the back pocket boundary followed by a little run & long bomb to over the wing, only to see it come strait back.

All we had was Neita to admire.

For some people, that may have been enough to excite them to yell & cheer, but it was go nowhere football. Just biding time as Yze, Robbo, Green, White, Neita all just played out time in their careers.

Whilst we didn't develope our kids well with good facilities or...

Now we are, but people are just panicking as we drop in games of experience bringing in the kids.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

I'm just watching Footy Classified now as I recorded it, and a comment early on from Lyon that was of interest:

"I didn't like the way they [Melbourne] set up forward of the ball."

Finally people are starting to see it.

Edited March 30, 2010 by Clint Bizkit

[Roost It 1,434]

I think Garry now knows they made a poor decision to appoint Bailey in the first place and this was further exascerbated by the premature extension to his contract. I have a feeling Gazza will finally make a run at the coaching role later this year....or at least be instrumental in replacing Bailey......

Ffootball clubs are not like normal workplaces.....you get very passionate about wanting success and everyone should be able to have a say on how to achieve this. It is for the ex-players to support the club and to do this in they best way they can.....so come on Garry.....I think it's nearing the time for you to step up to the plate......making heaps of money in the media would be nothing compared to coaching the D's to their next flag.

Let's get a media personality with experience in coaching the local Under 12's to coach us simply because he was a good player for us. Panic's turning to stupidity really quickly around here.

[Harry Manback 2]

Grant Thomas believes that Bailey doesnt have enough passion to be the no1 coach but would make a better fist of it as a assistant coach.

Before being prodded by Caro that he believed Bailey would make a better assistant coach, Thomas actually stated that he believed Bailey was the best developmental coach in the game. With the current state of our list and the plethora of youngsters which we have drafted over the past three seasons, it would appear from Thomas' perspective that we are in pretty good hands, at least for the next couple of seasons anyway.

Bailey was given an extra year because the board knew that we had to be patient, and that's not something supporters (or the media) enjoy. So we gave him an extra year and, in a way, forced everyone to be patient. The good thing about this is that Bailey can now spend an extra year developing kids rather than have to fight for a contract by picking the best team to win the next game, rather than the best team (and tactics) to win the 2014 Grand Final.

Exactly. The Club was obviously more realistic about our prospects for the 2010 seasons than the majority of posters here on 'land. No doubt the excitement generated by adding another four top 20 picks to the list significantly raised the expectations of a team that has won only 12 of its past 66 games. The lack of AFL quality footballers that we drafted in the period from 2000-2002 has left a significant gap in the playing list, which is being accentuated now as these players would ordinarily be entering into the peak years of their AFL careers. The Club went down the developmental path because it became obvious in 2007 that the list we had was not good enough to deliver a premiership.

Whilst the focus from a fan's perspective has shifted to the quality of youth that we have drafted since the 2007 draft (especially at the pointy end of the draft), the fact is that the ten top 21 picks accrued since 2007 have played a combined total of 70 games; Cale Morton has played 40 of them. There's still a lot of games and development to be put into this list before we start to see the results that we all hope these quality kids are capable of.

Think about it. Results like last Saturday are exactly why Bailey was given the extension.

Spot on. Bailey has stated time and time again that we need to develop and get the games into these kids we have drafted, and an unfortunate byproduct of this development stage is that we are going to see some pretty ordinary performances from time to time. It would have been counter-productive to what the Club is trying to achieve for the media and fans alike to be baying for blood on the back of every sub-par performance in a season where Bailey is coming out of contract. It has taken Bailey two seasons to completely rebuild the list through the draft, and he was never going to be able to prove either that he could or couldn't coach based on the results of this season alone. From that perspective I can understand the reasons for the Club offerring him an additional year to give him the best chance to prove that he can have success with the list he has put together.

Nobody knows whether or not Bailey will be the best man to lead us forward beyond 2012, but one thing that is obvious from the weekend's performance is that this list still has a hell of a long way to go before it can seriously challenge the better teams of the competition, and the poor performance against the Hawks probably gave a lot of supporters a harsh reality check.

[grazman 6,513]

Football clubs are not like normal workplaces.....you get very passionate about wanting success and everyone should be able to have a say on how to achieve this. It is for the ex-players to support the club and to do this in they best way they can.....so come on Garry.....I think it's nearing the time for you to step up to the plate......making heaps of money in the media would be nothing compared to coaching the D's to their next flag.

So the logical question here is: what does the passionate supporter/ex-player know about modern day coaching?

Answer: Not much - less if they're not intimately involved in the mechanics of coaching a real side (sorry but coaching a kid's side isn't anywhere close).

And that's the trouble in the modern age...too many people watching and thinking that its as simple as A, B and C. (usually yelling and screaming/threatening player and droppping them to the twos) and then expressing it on a public forum...

a few years ago a few committeemen thought they knew more than Norm Smith... I beg to differ.

Edited March 30, 2010 by grazman

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

Before being prodded by Caro that he believed Bailey would make a better assistant coach, Thomas actually stated that he believed Bailey was the best developmental coach in the game. With the current state of our list and the plethora of youngsters which we have drafted over the past three seasons, it would appear from Thomas' perspective that we are in pretty good hands, at least for the next couple of seasons anyway.

No, Thomas was pretty clear that he didn't think that Bailey should be a senior coach.

[grazman 6,513]

No, Thomas was pretty clear that he didn't think that Bailey should be a senior coach.

Nathan Burke however did think that Bailey should be the man for the job...

Edited March 30, 2010 by grazman

[Axis of Bob 10,261]

That's an excellent post Harry. Far better expressed than I did.

Also, Clint, the issue was getting the ball from defence into the midfield. Kicking long was exactly what Hawthorn were set up for. We were actually pretty good when we delivered the ball deep into the forward line, especially considering our lack of forward talent. Believe it or not, it actually created space and one on one opportunities for our forward line. But that's an argument for a different thread.

[Jack7 463]

Moloney was about the only one who penetrated Hawthorns zone with his 60 metre kick.Gilham was the last man in the zone and Moloney cleared him a couple of times but we had no-one to take advantage.Later this year we may have Watts & Jurrah contesting the zone breaker with Wonna,Maric or Flash cleaning up the crumbs.

That's whats ahead when we have a full list and a lot of backlines will be under pressure in the coming years.When we build a better and stronger midfield and start winning the contested ball and clearances,we'll be sending the ball forward a lot more and taking a lot of pressure off our backline.At the moment we don't have a midfield that wins enough clearances and the opposition midfield takes control,sending the ball into our defence which is always under pressure.Strauss gave up 3 goals and had huge pressure on him kicking in,in his debut game,the poor kid was crapping himself.I would have given Strauss a bit more time at Casey and played Cheney,who's more advanced right now.Is Strauss going to take Davis,Didak,Medhurst? He's just not ready yet,sure,throw him in the deep end but don't destroy him in his first few games.

[Sir Why You Little 34,615]

Moloney was about the only one who penetrated Hawthorns zone with his 60 metre kick.Gilham was the last man in the zone and Moloney cleared him a couple of times but we had no-one to take advantage.Later this year we may have Watts & Jurrah contesting the zone breaker with Wonna,Maric or Flash cleaning up the crumbs.

That's whats ahead when we have a full list and a lot of backlines will be under pressure in the coming years.When we build a better and stronger midfield and start winning the contested ball and clearances,we'll be sending the ball forward a lot more and taking a lot of pressure off our backline.At the moment we don't have a midfield that wins enough clearances and the opposition midfield takes control,sending the ball into our defence which is always under pressure.Strauss gave up 3 goals and had huge pressure on him kicking in,in his debut game,the poor kid was crapping himself.I would have given Strauss a bit more time at Casey and played Cheney,who's more advanced right now.Is Strauss going to take Davis,Didak,Medhurst? He's just not ready yet,sure,throw him in the deep end but don't destroy him in his first few games.

I agree with a lot of what you say, But do not forget one very important factor. Our Elite A Grade young kids who we are grooming are rarely going to all be available and fully fit at the same time, so the 2nd Tier players have got to be better, we have had a history of overpaying Good players because we haven't had any Truly Elite players since Robbie Flower, and Before that since The Red Fox was coach.

We have to also demand way more of our 2nd Tier players.

btw i hope Strauss does play this week-Give him the chance to reload, and Go again. Week 3 i would send him back to Casey to consolidate what he has learnt. Strauss i think will be a Gun, it's Warnock who i am not sold on yet.

[Rogue 585]

Nathan Burke however did think that Bailey should be the man for the job...

How many years ago was that?

[Sir Why You Little 34,615]

How many years ago was that?

He was on the selection committee for coaches.