Team changes discussion

[bananas 428]

I like how some people are calling for Bate to be dropped because he's clearly underdone, but are also calling for Garland to be named in the team. Either of these opinions could be argued separately, but they make no sense together --- because if Bate's underdone, Garland's gonna be waaaaay behind him in terms of fitness.

out:

Spencer - does absolutely nothing.

for:

Martin - does ever-so-slightly more. There have been occasions in the past when Martin has been involved in a passage of play in a positive way (even if it's just a handball), and I honestly can't say the same of Spencer.

out:

Dunn - more than ever, I'm convinced he'll never be an AFL-standard player

for:

Sylvia - please, please, please let him be available.

If he's fit enough, I think Jetta would be pushing hard for selection. More than anything we need guys who are prepared to work hard off the ball, running to create options for the ball carrier, pushing into space. Apart from Scully and Trengove this was almost entirely lacking today, and it was also one of the things I saw a lot of from the Jett last year. Having said that, I have no idea where his fitness is at.

I'd like to drop Miller, but who for? If the alternative is Newton, I'll stick with Brad. Strauss had a shocker, obviously, but he's gotta be better than he showed today and dropping him after one game could have a horrible effect on his confidence.

[RalphiusMaximus 5,993]

Martin - does ever-so-slightly more. There have been occasions in the past when Martin has been involved in a passage of play in a positive way (even if it's just a handball), and I honestly can't say the same of Spencer.

He had a very nice assist today.

My changes:

Cheney for Bennell - Cheney lacks the speed and grace of Bennell, but he's much harder, loves the body contact and is accountable in defence. Basically, while his best isn't as good as Bennell's, his worst is much, much better and bad is about all we've been getting from Bennell lately.

Martin for Dunn - I like Dunn. I think if he were persevered with he could turn into a decent forward, although never the replacement for Neitz people talked about once upon a time. However, he's just not ready yet. Send him to Casey and play him as a forward for a month to see if he can pull it off, then maybe try him in the firsts again. Martin can match Dunn for run, is faster and more agile and significantly bigger. Let him play FF and see what he can do. If nothing else he can keep Presti occupied.

Sylvia for Joel Mac. - Just get that hack out of our team. Once again he gave us nothing. Took a few saving marks at the end when the Hawks were showboating, but was basically useless all day. He's slow, he's not big enough to take a serious forward and his disposal isn't great. The only way he should stay is if Rivers is out. Putting Sylvia in speaks for itself. If he's still not over the jaw, perhaps McNamara could take the spot.

[45HG 1,539]

This thread shouldn't start until Monday

[Demons 32 235]

OUT:

Spencer - When he is on the ground it's like having 17 players

Dunn - 53 games of what we saw today

Jordy Mcken - Im sorry, just don't see what everyone else does

IN:

Sylvia - Walk up

Newton - We need a forward!!! Even a crap one, at least until Watts/Jurrah can return

Bartram - Is no gun, is no star, but at least he'll run all day and not give up OR Martin for obvious ruck reasons

[Supreme_Demon 3,009]

OUT:

Spencer - When he is on the ground it's like having 17 players

Dunn - 53 games of what we saw today

Jordy Mcken - Im sorry, just don't see what everyone else does

IN:

Sylvia - Walk up

Newton - We need a forward!!! Even a crap one, at least until Watts/Jurrah can return

Bartram - Is no gun, is no star, but at least he'll run all day and not give up OR Martin for obvious ruck reasons

I agree about Colin Sylvia coming in. As long as he is 100% fit.

Michael Newton is a possibility. I was actually disappointed he wasn't playing in Round 1. However, it depends if he has "earned" selection.

Not sure about Clint Bartram playing though.

I would actually give Jordie McKenzie another chance.

[DEES 0]

IN: SYLVIA (if fit), MARIC

OUT: MILLER, DUNN

i wouldnt drop any of the new boys yet, give them a chance to learn from the mistakes they made this week. i am sure with the strauss incident, he will definately learn from it and make amends for it.

[Ungarie boy 233]

He had a very nice assist today.

My changes:

Cheney for Bennell - Cheney lacks the speed and grace of Bennell, but he's much harder, loves the body contact and is accountable in defence. Basically, while his best isn't as good as Bennell's, his worst is much, much better and bad is about all we've been getting from Bennell lately.

Martin for Dunn - I like Dunn. I think if he were persevered with he could turn into a decent forward, although never the replacement for Neitz people talked about once upon a time. However, he's just not ready yet. Send him to Casey and play him as a forward for a month to see if he can pull it off, then maybe try him in the firsts again. Martin can match Dunn for run, is faster and more agile and significantly bigger. Let him play FF and see what he can do. If nothing else he can keep Presti occupied.

Sylvia for Joel Mac. - Just get that hack out of our team. Once again he gave us nothing. Took a few saving marks at the end when the Hawks were showboating, but was basically useless all day. He's slow, he's not big enough to take a serious forward and his disposal isn't great. The only way he should stay is if Rivers is out. Putting Sylvia in speaks for itself. If he's still not over the jaw, perhaps McNamara could take the spot.

A considered response I like it.

My thoughts:

We have way to many players, who don't or know how to apply defensive pressure. Note Defensive Pressure is not the ability to chase and run down a player - it's about not giving them space, freedom or even confidence to get the ball (no forward likes having the back of their heels trod on all game, or being continually ribbed or even any form of constant physical coontact).

With this in mind I like Cheney in for Bennel. For people at the game does Maloney and Jones play defensivley enough (you can't get a true reflection from TV coverage, but it does not appear so on TV - Particularily Maloney); if not then they cannot both be on the ball at the same time. An out of the box suggestion would be for Maloney to replace Strauss (let him come back in a couple of weeks when the draw is more favourable for younger players - let's not shatter their confidence). This would toughen our backline, whilst teaching accountability; a huge upside is his penetrating kick could also help break open the "on ball defensive pressure" that oppositions uses so successfully against us (because they know our first, second and third option is to handall - whilst plan B is to kick short).

Spencer needs more time at Casey (again lets not ruin his cofidence). For a backup option to Jamar, Martin is the obivious canditate - but with the way the style of footy is headingat the moment, a flexible tall could also provide this type of support; again outside the square, but perhaps Rivers (we do have a few talls to cover this), Dunn or Miller or Bate (we are not likely to lose to much from their current positions)

We need a Foward, and we don't have any. No point painting sh*t gold and trying to use it as currency! For the moment we are probably best trying to follow a Bulldongs model of previous years (they didn't really have any quality tall forwards) and go with a small, quick and skilled forward line that expose tall backlines (lets make the opposition coach make reactionary matchup decisions). Green, Sylvia, Davey, Petterd, Perhaps Maric, Jetta, Hughes - most of whom can mark on the lead, above their height range, and importantly are quick.

[Jack7 463]

Outs:

Miller---He has no idea about reading the incoming ball,he's forever out of position and an awful kick.If he stays in,he plays within 30m of goal only,because IF he does take a mark,it's his best chance to kick a goal but even then i wouldn't put the house on it.

Dunn---Dropped 2 marks you'd expect to take in under 12's,runs around like a headless chook and has never nailed a position,good VFL footballer.

Spencer---At one stage played 72% of the game without touching the footy,nowhere near ready at this level.

Ins:

Newton---I've never liked this kid and don't think he'll ever make it but we desperately need a target for our mids to kick to and it's now or never and i'd give him 5 games to prove himself once and for all,if he can't cut it,he's out for good.

Sylvia---If he's fit he plays as a permanent forward,he takes a good grab and can kick it 60m.

Maric---Permanent forward pocket who can crumb Newton's dropped marks,he can be very dangerous around goals.

----------------

Bruce---Was carved up by Osbourne who kicked 2 goals in first 10 minutes and Bruce gave away a 3rd goal from a stupid handball.I've always been a Brucey fan and he's versatile but if his disposal continually lets him down,i'd rather put 20 games into a youngster who'll be in our next finals campaign,Bruce won't be around by then.

Bennell---Was carved up by Hooper and continually lets his opponents get goal side.

Bate---Didn't have a preseason and was only played because of LJ,Sylvia,Wonna are out,he clearly needs 3-4 games to get his form back,we had no choice but play him underdone yesterday.

Davey---Had a great year last year off half back as he was always in the play being in our backline but with a new role this year,it'll take a while to adjust because we just don't have the ball enough yet.

Dean Bailey---In the first half he got the gameplan totally wrong.Frawley should have taken Roughead from the first bounce,Warnock will only be a battler,3rd defender at best,he shouldn't be taking the best forward.We played unaccountable football and got smashed and beaten up physically and mentally.In the second half Bailey went more one on one across the ground with much better results because each player had a specific job to do on his direct opponent and the second half tackle count was a huge improvement on the first half because we were more accountable one on one and the pressure on the opposition ball carrier increased.Next week against the Pies,we must start the game with the same one on one style that we played in the last 50 minutes of the match yesterday,if we don't,the Pies will carve us up and win by 70+ points.I would even play Grimes on Swan,Scully on Ball and Trengove on Pendlebury,throw them in at the deep end and learn on the job and they will learn a lot quicker this way than just running around unaccountable.These Pies will teach them where to run and when,where to stand at throwups around the ground etc.

Overall a shocking game but Scully and JT showed they'll be class acts and great debuts in a pathetic team effort,Brad Green was great again and after having his head in a brace,comes back on and runs with the flight of the ball,tough as the plate holding his cheekbone together from last year.The tackle count was up to 83 led by Junior with 11 as usual but inside 50,we only had 6 tackles,nowhere near enough forwardline pressure,this games all about pressure when you haven't got the ball but i can't remember an 83 tackle count from a Demon outfit,so it's a huge improvement on previous years.We're still playing far too loose when they have the ball.When top 4 teams haven't got the ball,they are shoulder to shoulder all over the ground.

Edited March 28, 2010 by Jack7

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

First dropped should be Bate he is an absolute disgrace of a footballer, soft, slow and selfish his display today showed that. He needs a good few weeks to regain fitness and think about what's required of an AFL forward.

Fail. He had a very, VERY good season last season and is in our top 5-10 most important players.

You joined to post this?

The moron is back with his moronic posts. Can we get him banned forever? PLEASE!

If only.

This thread shouldn't start until Monday

:D

[Maybe next year 167]

My changes are as follows:

Newton for Miller - Newton needs to be promoted off the rookie list but I think we have enough long term injuries to make this happen. He needs to be given 7 weeks and for him to get another game after this period, he needs to have kicked 21 goals. Even Brad Miller kicked 2 yesterday. I like Brad as a player but his effort yesterday was disgraceful and such efforts cannot be rewarded with another game.

Martin for Spencer

Martin gives us lots more flexibility and my goodness Spencer is bad atm. He needs to learn at Casey. Bring him in if Jamar gets injured but not before. Our backup ruckman can be MArtin or Newton if need be.

Sylvia with McKenzie (Assumin Colin is fit)

Sylvia is one of our star players and adds toughness.

Bruce must play in forward line together with Green. Our midfield has to have confidence that their efforts will be rewarded. This will also stop Bruce from handballing as his job will be to kick goals.

On notice:

A Davey. He was shocking yesterday. Looked disinterested, unfit and tired. Not good enough from a leader.

L Dunn. Tries hard but concerned about skills. May need to give his role to McKenzie or McNamara.

M Bate. Pathetic yesterday and if he dishes out another effort like yesterday will need to gain fitness in Casey. I expect at that time, Garland will be fit.

Yesterday was a bad game so I want to see them for one more week before I make drastic changes.

[P-man 13,168]

Sylvia with McKenzie (Assumin Colin is fit)

Sylvia is one of our star players and adds toughness.

You'd dump McKenzie? He was in our top 4 or 5 yesterday.

[Choko 493]

In - SYLVIA, Martin, McNamara, Maric, Jetta, Watts, Garland

Out - Dunn, Bruce, MacDonald, McDonald, Bate, Bennell, Spencer

I really don't like responding to your crap, but honestly, if you're gonna come on here, show some f*cking respect man. McDonald is our captain, he tried hard all day and had a good game. You're real hard sitting behind the computer showing such disrespect to our captain. Soft.

[Choko 493]

He had a very nice assist today.

My changes:

Cheney for Bennell - Cheney lacks the speed and grace of Bennell, but he's much harder, loves the body contact and is accountable in defence. Basically, while his best isn't as good as Bennell's, his worst is much, much better and bad is about all we've been getting from Bennell lately.

Martin for Dunn - I like Dunn. I think if he were persevered with he could turn into a decent forward, although never the replacement for Neitz people talked about once upon a time. However, he's just not ready yet. Send him to Casey and play him as a forward for a month to see if he can pull it off, then maybe try him in the firsts again. Martin can match Dunn for run, is faster and more agile and significantly bigger. Let him play FF and see what he can do. If nothing else he can keep Presti occupied.

Sylvia for Joel Mac. - Just get that hack out of our team. Once again he gave us nothing. Took a few saving marks at the end when the Hawks were showboating, but was basically useless all day. He's slow, he's not big enough to take a serious forward and his disposal isn't great. The only way he should stay is if Rivers is out. Putting Sylvia in speaks for itself. If he's still not over the jaw, perhaps McNamara could take the spot.

Agree entirely about Cheney for Bennell. I think Bennell has some glaring weaknesses he needs to work on.

Dunn must be dropped for the game he had. Maric to take his place and be told that he will be judged on his forward pressure and not his goals.

Sylvia to play if fit, for Strauss. I just don't think 3 2nd gamers against Coll is a good idea. But not so fussed if Strauss plays and Joel MacD dropped.

Martin in for Spencer.

[Jaded No More 57,803]

Martin has to play, because while he may struggle to kick, at least he can present and mark up forward.

Sylvia an obvious inclusion if fit.

My outs would be Dunn and Miller, because I have given up hope that other senior players like say Bruce, would ever be dropped due to horrendous form.

[titan_uranus 22,322]

Martin has to play, because while he may struggle to kick, at least he can present and mark up forward.

Sylvia an obvious inclusion if fit.

Martin just gives me no confidence as a forward. At all.

I'm sure he'd do as well as Miller, but long-term I don't think he'll ever do the job.

Much better as a defender. If Warnock continues to play like he did yesterday (and I say this despite having been a massive Warnock fan last year) then I'd be switching those two. Warnock yesterday was slow, outpositioned and was pushed around by Roughead far too easily. And looked somewhat disinterested at times.

My outs would be Dunn and Miller, because I have given up hope that other senior players like say Bruce, would ever be dropped due to horrendous form.

This is true.

Had to laugh at the HUN today. Rod Nicholson had Frawley and Bruce in our best. Clearly he didn't pay any attention to the match and simply chose the two names at the top of the possessions list.

[Range Rover 1,935]

Jake Spencer should never again set foot on the MCG turf. Not even as a spectator for a post-game kick to kick.

Out - Spencer Miller Dunne

In - Sylvia Martin Cheney

[stranga 328]

Jake Spencer should never again set foot on the MCG turf. Not even as a spectator for a post-game kick to kick.

Out - Spencer Miller Dunne

In - Sylvia Martin Cheney

Agree on spencer, just terrible. Has no attributes other than being tall. Sick of melbourne drafting that type of big man and hoping they will develop into something.

Warnock's spot surely has to be under threat. He was well beaten in all the pre season games and looked slow yesterday. Also was unable to cope physically yesterday. Martin should be given a chance in the backline and frawley dropped back to full back.

[Maybe next year 167]

You'd dump McKenzie? He was in our top 4 or 5 yesterday.

Dump is a bit harsh. I just think Sylvia is a better player. I also don't believe he was in out top 4 or 5 yesterday. One of the younger players have to make way and I think Strauss needs to play again from a confidence point of view.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

I just want to see Miller dropped. Please Bailey show some aggot and send a message that you just cannot be given a game for the MFC if you perform like that as a 9th-year player. Don't bring him back until he dominates several games at Casey either

[Roost It 1,434]

OUT: Dunn (he's completely done), Spencer (FFS he needs game time in the 2's - I'm a long way from convinced), Bate (You can't play like that and stay in the side), MacDonald (Don't know why we recruited him in the first place, I thought our defence was a strong point) Bruce (Not fit or brave enough),

IN: Martin, Sylvia, Newton(I seriously can't believe I just wrote that but he kicked 4 and played well unlike any of the forwards against the Hawks)(I still can't believe I wrote Newton, someone needs to slap me and slap me hard) Garland (To play forward), Jetta/Maric (just to get game time into them.

I'd play Green as FF, Sylvia and Trengove as HF, Newton(oh my god I've written his name again) FP, Petterd in the other pocket and Garland as CHF

In the middle I'd have Scully, Jones and Grimes

Jamar to ruck against Jolly.

Edited March 28, 2010 by Roost It

[Sir Why You Little 34,436]

OUT: Dunn (he's completely done), Spencer (FFS he needs game time in the 2's - I'm a long way from convinced), Bate (You can't play like that and stay in the side), MacDonald (Don't know why we recruited him in the first place, I thought our defence was a strong point) Bruce (Not fit or brave enough),

IN: Martin, Sylvia, Newton(I seriously can't believe I just wrote that but he kicked 4 and played well unlike any of the forwards against the Hawks)(I still can't believe I wrote Newton, someone needs to slap me and slap me hard) Garland (To play forward)

If Newton kicked 4 yesterday, he deserves a game-simple. Lets not forget we had kicked 1 goal in the first half yesterday.

[Roost It 1,434]

If Newton kicked 4 yesterday, he deserves a game-simple. Lets not forget we had kicked 1 goal in the first half yesterday.

It's sad but true Newton(there I go again) deserves a game ahead of Bate who is clearly not ready and I am just not going to discuss his game yesterday, there are no words to describe it.

Edited March 28, 2010 by Roost It

[drdrake 3,037]

Since October Bailey has push the line of "these youngs guys must play games together" after Collingwood and Adelaide we have 4 or 5 games against bottom 8 sides, North, Richmond, west Coast, Port, add in Brisbane and the Bulldogs do we use the next two games to get some players AFL match fit to prepare for these games. Yes we should, then we need to line up as per below

Bennell Warnock Frawley

Garland Rivers Strauss

Scully Grimes Trengove

Green Watts Sylvia

Petterd Martin Davey

Jamar Jones Moloney

Bruce McDonald Bate Mckenzie

In Garland, Sylvia, Martin, Watts

Out Dunn, Miller, Spencer, MacDonald

No more cotton wool for Watts its time for him to learn by playing

Edited March 28, 2010 by drdrake

[Lil_red_fire_engine 10,163]

No more cotton wool for Watts its time for him to learn by playing

How about he learns to play in the VFL first?

[PeterJames 46]

Watts doesn't deserve a game. Has been struggling at Casey and other guys are playing much better than him.