Bomberblitz's 2010 Preview of the Dees

[RalphiusMaximus 5,993]

Just thought I'd quote this post by Crazy Bomber from the Bomber page as it seems to have us nailed down pretty well.

I usually put in some form of effort with these for AB, so it'll be no different this year. Okay, first Melbourne. It looks like at least another 2 years of hell *hehe* for the Demons.

Backline: 5 - It's quite poor, maybe not the worst, but hardly a good backline. Warnock, turning 25 this year was entrenched down back for most of last season and tried hard to hold the fort against an onslaught of enemy fire. The problem with him is, he's hardly making opposition forwards shiver with fear. Okay, he's boring and might find himself outside of the team if the young kids step up. Melbourne may have to accept that he'll be a solid player, but not a brilliant player. Frawley seems to have found himself down there also and at 21 looks promising enough and demon fans would pray he keeps developing.

Rivers finally had a decent season free of injury, and he looked pretty good. Another quality year hopefully looms for him, but sadly he's now 25 and a lot of good football from him was potentially lost. Garland missed a huge chunk of last year but has youth on his side. It's highly unlikely you'll find all 4 players mentioned thus far in the same side though, structurally it probably won't work.

People are also forgetting Joel MacDonald who was drafted from Brisbane. He's quite under-rated and although he had a medicore season last year, his 2007 was very good and at his best he'll add a fair bit to a poor Melbourne backline. There's improvement immediatley with him. Small Bennell is also penciled in down back. He had a few games and will look to improve with more games this year. Again, he's hardly going to cause worries for great small forwards in the meantime.

You'll then have Bruce, Green, Martin, McDonald, Grimey and maybe even Strauss and Cheney who could all play down back at some point. Bartram has been a massive disappointment as a tagger/defensive back who got dropped regularly, he should have been delisted. Problem is, they're all young and need time, which means pain in the short term. Something they are probably used to.

Midfield: 6.5 - There's a lot of promising youth that is being relied on here to carry the side. You have all the regulars in Cameron Bruce and McDonald, two veterans who will give their all (but not necessarily win games, moreso provide a challenge) along with Brad Green, who after only 12 games in 2009 will definitely help boost a poor side if he can return from an injury.

Moloney had a good 2009, playing 21 games and was the tough nut they so desperately needed as he really started to breakout in the latter half of the year after overcoming injuries. He needs to continue to push on whilst the young kids improve otherwise things will look grim. Alongside him was Davey, who was probably their best player in 2009. Always tried and ran hard, he looked like one of the few Melbourne players to have spark in the middle. Unfortunately he lacked help. Nathan Jones, is another massive trier. He unfortunately lacks great skill but will always give his all. I'm uncertain as to wether he has improvement left in him though. Time will tell. The trend thus far (bar Davey) is that they are all of similar ink. Hard ball winners that at times lack skills and pace of the faster teams.

Colin Slyvia who is easily their best player when up and running (see Hawthorn game where he kicked 4 goals and about 40 possessions.) He got suspended far too often last year and missed 5 games. If he keeps his head clean, he could be a megastar, even a Brownlow winner one day. He has massive talent and is about ready to unleash if he commits to the side. Can also go forward and kick a bag and even go down back. They need another 3 of him.

And then you have the exciting youth. Cale Morton was a standout. He missed 1 game, and with decent help, he could potentially be a great player. He already knows how to get the ball and is an exciting prospect but can let himself down with his skills and kicking. Then you have recent draftees in Scully and Trengrove who'll no doubt get a ton of game time next year. Already these 3 provide an exciting nucleus to build on. Add to those 3, Grimes, who burst onto the scene until injuries wrecked the last part of his season. He genuinely looked like he'd be regular until injuries. He may be forced to play HBF for the time being. These 4 young guy's look very good and provide the main hope for demon fan's. Melbourne fans also rate Tapscott highly, and he should get games and plenty of them, whilst if Blease (massively talented) can get back from injuries in time then Melbourne looks to have a great midfield once fully running. And exciting. Bail could get a few games also. But the loss of potential captain McLean will hurt as he walked on the club.

Forwardline: 3.5 - Pretty woeful. Matthew Bate lead the way with 27 goals from 20 games as the leading goalkicker. Bate, the clubs CHF, who struggled with injuries through his career, showed that he could be something when he puts in the effort. He showed glimpses every now of then of something great, but then just as quick slipped in mediocrity. He needs to stamp himself next year if Melbourne are to get anywhere near the 8. He has the talent, but is seemingly stuck in mediocrity land. The next best was Liam Jurrah who kicked 20 goals from count them, 9 games. Burst onto the scene against us, he breathed great life into Melbourne supporters' hearts as a high leaping miracle man up forward. If he was in a great team, he'd be massive. Looks to be on track for a 40 goal season if he plays all 22 games. If he does, then it's certain improvement.

Then you had Ricky Petterd who kicked 19 goals playing HFF and also back, and at 21 he is definitely an exciting prospect for Melbourne's future. The hardest part will be taking the next step, that provided with decent delivary, he should make.

Brad Miller, who went from exciting prospect to possible delistee to now bit-part player is another who needs to step up. He actually went backwards, kicking 26 goals in 2008 to 19 in 2009 from 2 less games. He usually found himself getting dropped in 2009, and at 26, needs a kick up the arse. Could be delisted by years end but you can expecxt him to play 5 games then get dropped for 2 as is Melbourne's way with him. I won't be expecting much from him.

Then you have a few blokes that didn't play in 2009 due to injury or youth. Wonnamirri will certainly provide some more excitement and headaches for opposition teams. He kicked 24 goals from 18 games in his first year, and played 0 last year. Big improvement right there if he plays. Problem? He recently reinjured a hammy at training, meaning he won't have had a full pre-season for 2010. Add to that you have Brad Green, who played 12 games for 12 goals. He'll rotate midfield and forward, but I'd expect him to spend more time forward/back next year with Scully and co being developed. Once again, his return equals imediate improvement. Then you have Jack Watts. Got a taste of it and looked completley over-rawed. He'll have certainly bulked up and will surely improve and hold a FF spot. A lot relies on this boy, but I reckon he'll make it. If he does make it, it certainly means curtains for Brad Miller and/or Newton.

Sylvia, their only superstar player, will play forward and midifield. This guy can play anywhere and is ready to become a superstar in the comp. I doubt he'll spend too many long periods forward but he has already shown he can kick multiple goals. Then you have your bit-part players that will run through here occasionally ie. Bruce, Davey, and even the reliably dull Jamar. Newton who struggled in 2009, isn't even rated by own fans as in the best 25. Like Miller, could be desisted (but probably won't because they lack decent players up there.)

The problem with their forwardline is that they only had 6 players kick over 9 goals. Worrying. The improvement will come from a return of certain players, and Jack Watts, but it's another two years before it's looks decent to challenge. Neville Jetta could be the surprise packet ( like our own Jetta I guess) but has thus far been average whilst Lyden Dunn will most likely be delisted.

Ruckman: 4 - Lead by the reliably boring and useless Jamar who (barring his once off goal haul last year) generally only manages to jump at the ball-ups and then goes missing for the rest of the game. Think Hennemen as he usually got under 10 possessions. He's somewhat done better last year than previous one's by going forward, but really, if this guy leads the rucks you're in [censored].

Number 1 ruck is Paul Johnson who has shown talent and ability but hasn't fully grasped it yet. He could be the big improver all things going well. They need it. The rest of their ruckman are either too young or useless to bother mentioning at this point as you could probably bet that they'd get games but do nothing onfield. Certainly amongst the worst in the comp.

Predicted Finish: 13th - 16th - If things goes well, they could sneak out of the bottom 4 but I reckon they'll be bottom 4 for another year until their young midfield improves as does Watts. MacDonald inclusion helps down back, but the McLean loss was massive. They have a great midfield but that's it at this stage. Bailey will also be under pressure to perform.

Best Brownlow Bet: Colin Sylvia

From Nowhere star: Sam Blease

I think that is possibly the most well-balanced assessment of our list I've seen this year.

[Sir Why You Little 34,697]

i pretty much agree with that above sumation except the reference to Brock-i don't think his loss was massive, as i think Carlton may find out.

He looked fit, but still way to slow. The Ankle he did against brisbane in 2008 was the killer for Brock sadly. I will watch his season closely.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

None of our senior Players stood up last Sunday 45. Not one of them sadly-& it was the perfect day for them to do it.

How many did we have in the side who had at least 100 games experience? Junior, Miller, Green, Beamer, Davey (played 1/2 a game), Joel Mac. Possibly Sylvia. Six players who are not game breakers and you are blaming them solely for the result. They are definitely a contributor. However Junior and JoelMac played well against the odds.

The other 18 players were inexperienced kids with 50 games or less. 5 players were playing their first games of senior football. Put another way. Our first ruck was a rookie, we had two first gamers in the guts, our KPFs were a 2nd year with 9 games experience and another in his first game. Get the hint of something WYL???

Another case of your hysteria without a clue.

i pretty much agree with that above sumation except the reference to Brock-i don't think his loss was massive, as i think Carlton may find out.

He looked fit, but still way to slow. The Ankle he did against brisbane in 2008 was the killer for Brock sadly. I will watch his season closely.

You would be wrong on both accounts. Its a good summary from an opposition supporter better than most here could conjure on Essendon. But our midfield is a 6.5 but our defence is a 5. And the midfield has had a massive loss with McLean. Would he given a third world midfield an 8 with Brock in it? You are kidding. Even you could see this furphy.

Further you moan about our senior players and lack of leaders then you state that McLean's loss in the midfield is not a big loss. In the LT I dont expect it to be when Grimes, Trengove and Scully mature. This year itr exacerbates the lack of senior bodies at the contests. Getting Gysberts could be great for the future but in the short term it makes our list younger and more vulnerable.

As for Brock, he was slow from when he started AFL. The game has got quicker and Brock hasn't. That's his problem.

Get the drift?

[Sir Why You Little 34,697]

How many did we have in the side who had at least 100 games experience? Junior, Miller, Green, Beamer, Davey (played 1/2 a game), Joel Mac. Possibly Sylvia. Six players who are not game breakers and you are blaming them solely for the result. They are definitely a contributor. However Junior and JoelMac played well against the odds.

The other 18 players were inexperienced kids with 50 games or less. 5 players were playing their first games of senior football. Put another way. Our first ruck was a rookie, we had two first gamers in the guts, our KPFs were a 2nd year with 9 games experience and another in his first game. Get the hint of something WYL???

Another case of your hysteria without a clue.

You would be wrong on both accounts. Its a good summary from an opposition supporter better than most here could conjure on Essendon. But our midfield is a 6.5 but our defence is a 5. And the midfield has had a massive loss with McLean. Would he given a third world midfield an 8 with Brock in it? You are kidding. Even you could see this furphy.

Further you moan about our senior players and lack of leaders then you state that McLean's loss in the midfield is not a big loss. In the LT I dont expect it to be when Grimes, Trengove and Scully mature. This year itr exacerbates the lack of senior bodies at the contests. Getting Gysberts could be great for the future but in the short term it makes our list younger and more vulnerable.

As for Brock, he was slow from when he started AFL. The game has got quicker and Brock hasn't. That's his problem.

Get the drift?

You say that i am wrong RR...I don't & that my friend is the beauty of this discussion board.

Do you think i wrote it just so you could pick it apart.

You think the loss of McLean is massive..i don't, which is why the deal was done first thing monday morning for pick 11.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

You think the loss of McLean is massive..i don't, which is why the deal was done first thing monday morning for pick 11.

In the short term it is a real concern. Regardless of how you see him, McLean was a mature AFL player who was prepared to be in and under the contest. Its one less senior player in a Club that you have bemoaned that we dont have. Get it.

McLean was on big $$$$ during 2007 to 2009 following the promise of stepping up in the 2006 season. Whether injury or form, he did not deliver over that period. Given the performance to date and the recruitment of future midfield champions the Club took the decision to offer him a new contract that was less than he was previously on and what he expected. He did not want to stay and wanted to leave to Carlton. MFC did the constructive thing and sought to get it sorted quickly. It was not a sign that he was not a significant loss. It was more a situation where there was never going to be agreement between the parties. Dont mistake it for something other than it is. MFC were prepared to re sign McLean for a further term but not on terms Brock wanted.

[Sir Why You Little 34,697]

In the short term it is a real concern. Regardless of how you see him, McLean was a mature AFL player who was prepared to be in and under the contest. Its one less senior player in a Club that you have bemoaned that we dont have. Get it.

McLean was on big $$$$ during 2007 to 2009 following the promise of stepping up in the 2006 season. Whether injury or form, he did not deliver over that period. Given the performance to date and the recruitment of future midfield champions the Club took the decision to offer him a new contract that was less than he was previously on and what he expected. He did not want to stay and wanted to leave to Carlton. MFC did the constructive thing and sought to get it sorted quickly. It was not a sign that he was not a significant loss. It was more a situation where there was never going to be agreement between the parties. Dont mistake it for something other than it is. MFC were prepared to re sign McLean for a further term but not on terms Brock wanted.

Exactly. The Club is bigger than one player, and Brock is the prime example of a player who will probably not reach his potential. If he prospers at carlton, good on him. But to our team i don't think he is a massive loss because his high standards were not high enough.

I have no doubt one or two of our older players will be traded at the end of this year for the same reason-who they are we will find out once the season starts.

The expectations of this club and all the supporters have slowly eroded back since 64, it's inevitable, Maybe the TJ trade was the beginning of change. i hope so.

Between 2007-2009 if Mclean had been playing at another club he would not have been thought of as captain material-But at Melbourne he was.

Recruiting Joel Mcdonald was a smart idea-I really hope it works out. He saw high expectation close up. if he is a good communicator with the young kids it could be a master stroke. Fingers crossed.

[H_T 2,941]

I have no doubt one or two of our older players will be traded at the end of this year for the same reason-who they are we will find out once the season starts.

Who ? You said you have no doubt. Traded for the "same reason".

Our oldest are McDonald, Bruce & Green (contracted).

???

[45HG 1,539]

Mcdonald will likely retire, Bruce and Green will be on the veteran's list.

[praha 10,308]

I think it's actually a pretty unbiased review, albeit a little misinformed. He wrote it based on what he knows, and even though he probably should have done a bit more research, at least he didn't let his own support get in the way of writing a review for an opposing club.

[Sir Why You Little 34,697]

Who ? You said you have no doubt. Traded for the "same reason".

Our oldest are McDonald, Bruce & Green (contracted).

???

Who they are we shall find out as the season progresses, as i said. If there form does not improve drastically on what was show last sunday then players will go.

I am talking about players who have done many pre seasons before and should know what is expected by now.

It is up to the players as i see it, but the TJ & Brock trades have certainly proven that nobodies place is rock solid if they do not earn the position.

And that to me is healthy.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Between 2007-2009 if Mclean had been playing at another club he would not have been thought of as captain material-But at Melbourne he was.

Mainly by the sycophants on internet forums. He had a number of off field matters which with his lack of performance dimmed his star somewhat. I think that was another reason why Brock chose other pastures.

It is up to the players as i see it, but the TJ & Brock trades have certainly proven that nobodies place is rock solid if they do not earn the position.

And that to me is healthy.

Both TJ and Brock could earn their position and given our midfield woes would still rank as worthy of a game. TJ was cut for cultural reasons and the fact that we should move to get "value" for his inconsistent talent now before it dissolved as he got older.

McLean was given a new contract but was not happy with that or the prospects put to him for his future. He wanted out and we again sought to get value.

It not because either was not good enough to get a game. They were. But neither were viewed as mission critical to the LT plan of building a flag challenging side in a 5 to 6 year period. Hell TJ had 40+ possessions in his last game so it was not his form.

And if we have two of our senior players do lose form and cant even get a game with us, which Club would realistically trade for them?

[Sir Why You Little 34,697]

Mainly by the sycophants on internet forums. He had a number of off field matters which with his lack of performance dimmed his star somewhat. I think that was another reason why Brock chose other pastures.

Both TJ and Brock could earn their position and given our midfield woes would still rank as worthy of a game. TJ was cut for cultural reasons and the fact that we should move to get "value" for his inconsistent talent now before it dissolved as he got older.

McLean was given a new contract but was not happy with that or the prospects put to him for his future. He wanted out and we again sought to get value.

It not because either was not good enough to get a game. They were. But neither were viewed as mission critical to the LT plan of building a flag challenging side in a 5 to 6 year period. Hell TJ had 40+ possessions in his last game so it was not his form.

And if we have two of our senior players do lose form and cant even get a game with us, which Club would realistically trade for them?

Cultural reasons are just as important as form reasons RR. It's probably been too easy in some respects to keep a senior spot in the MFC. That has to stop if we are to really succeed (Hawthorn 1971-1991 style). Brock obviously over valued himself, the club stood firm on what they believed, Brock disagreed & a trade was sorted quick Smart.

The Club has started to become proactive which will become even more critical once the free agency system is implemented.

Trappers 40 possession game against carlton was a little orchestrated so lets not use that as a reference point. No carlton player went near him, as we know they were playing to an agenda, I miss TJ, but look at his form up in Brisbane-he certainly has not been a reguliar midfielder-a lot of bench warming (still a lightning hand baller at times though but not enough times to be elite). So i think the right decision was made. Grimes could be anything...

Sure Brock & TJ could have got a game, but the club would have remained stagnant, so in that respect they were not good enough to get a game.

[Jack7 463]

I don't disagree with everything the OP said,i also think our backline is ordinary at best and will leak heavily against the big boys.Warnock & Martin aren't up to it and are wasting space,they'll never get there.

This weeks game against a middle rung team at a neutral venue will indicate further where we're at and if we only manage 35 tackles again and stuff all pressure,i expect another 10 goal+ hammering.

I'd like to see Sylvia play a Paul Chapman role inside 50,he takes a good grab and kicks 60 off a couple of steps,he doesn't hurt teams as a midfielder and we're crying out for decent forward options.He may not hurt teams as a forward either but our forward was awful against the Dockers.It's preseason,just try something different.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Cultural reasons are just as important as form reasons RR. It's probably been too easy in some respects to keep a senior spot in the MFC. That has to stop if we are to really succeed (Hawthorn 1971-1991 style). Brock obviously over valued himself, the club stood firm on what they believed, Brock disagreed & a trade was sorted quick Smart.

That was not your point. Your issue was form. The issue of keeping senior spots is due the talent level in the list not pushing through. For the past 3 years our "depth" has been as ordinary as some of our seniors.

The Club has started to become proactive which will become even more critical once the free agency system is implemented.

They started wisely with Woey but did not carry it through again until with TJ.

Trappers 40 possession game against carlton was a little orchestrated so lets not use that as a reference point. No carlton player went near him, as we know they were playing to an agenda, I miss TJ, but look at his form up in Brisbane-he certainly has not been a reguliar midfielder-a lot of bench warming (still a lightning hand baller at times though but not enough times to be elite). So i think the right decision was made. Grimes could be anything...

Trapper got 3 Blow votes that night so he was not removed because of form. He is still a wanted player in Brisbane's finals push.

Sure Brock & TJ could have got a game, but the club would have remained stagnant, so in that respect they were not good enough to get a game.

[Sir Why You Little 34,697]

That was not your point. Your issue was form. The issue of keeping senior spots is due the talent level in the list not pushing through. For the past 3 years our "depth" has been as ordinary as some of our seniors.

They started wisely with Woey but did not carry it through again until with TJ.

Trapper got 3 Blow votes that night so he was not removed because of form. He is still a wanted player in Brisbane's finals push.

My point is both form and Culture- i believe both can and do effect each other which has happened at the MFC for all the time i have followed them-Are you disagreeing there RR?

I agree on the Woey point and that the four year hiatus in trading is a massive reason for our current position.

Trapper may have got 3 Charlies for that Round 22 Game against Carlton, but none of the opposition went near him as they obviously planned. T.J's 2 best games for the MFC were the Semi against Adelaide in 2002 and the Elimination against Essendon in 2004, sadly both games we lost. I don't blame Trapper but in both games he ran out of gas in the last Q. Trapper was a fine fine player when he was "on" but he will never be elite. Jack "Frank" Grimes could be anything yet.

My last point Sure Brock & TJ could have got a game, but the club would have remained stagnant, so in that respect they were not good enough to get a game. you clearly mock, not sure why?? Is your pearl of wisdom along the lines that TJ & Brock should be playing??

Edited February 25, 2010 by why you little

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

My point is both form and Culture- i believe both can and do effect each other which has happened at the MFC for all the time i have followed them-Are you disagreeing there RR?

That wasnt your original position at all. Shuffle shufle wriggle wriggle. Post #35 was about senior players not performing and not showing form that they will go. You erroneously used Brock and TJ to demonstrate your point. It didn't. The issue of culture never came into your earlier comment. And culture was not an issue in the Brock situation at all.

Trapper may have got 3 Charlies for that Round 22 Game against Carlton, but none of the opposition went near him as they obviously planned.

Why repeat an irrelevant point. He got 40 possessions and BOG so his clearance was not based on form. Now you have latched onto culture only after I raised it.

My last point Sure Brock & TJ could have got a game, but the club would have remained stagnant, so in that respect they were not good enough to get a game. you clearly mock, not sure why?? Is your pearl of wisdom along the lines that TJ & Brock should be playing??

It was a silly non sensical comment that has no logic to it. Two players would not have made the Club stagnate and its does not render them not good enough to get a game in our current side when they clearly are required players in teams who are seriously contending for a flag. I have already stated my point quite clearly earlier. Not only do you have trouble following someone's else argument but you have greater trouble constructing and defending your own shifting points of view.

I'll leave it at that. The B'land analysis deserves better discussion.

[Sir Why You Little 34,697]

That wasnt your original position at all. Shuffle shufle wriggle wriggle. Post #35 was about senior players not performing and not showing form that they will go. You erroneously used Brock and TJ to demonstrate your point. It didn't. The issue of culture never came into your earlier comment. And culture was not an issue in the Brock situation at all.

Why repeat an irrelevant point. He got 40 possessions and BOG so his clearance was not based on form. Now you have latched onto culture only after I raised it.

It was a silly non sensical comment that has no logic to it. Two players would not have made the Club stagnate and its does not render them not good enough to get a game in our current side when they clearly are required players in teams who are seriously contending for a flag. I have already stated my point quite clearly earlier. Not only do you have trouble following someone's else argument but you have greater trouble constructing and defending your own shifting points of view.

I'll leave it at that. The B'land analysis deserves better discussion.

Fine let's agree to Disagree R N B (Rhino Knows Best or else)!! I have mentioned culture many times over the last 5 years. We all know it has been lacking.

[Hobbits's 17]

Fine let's agree to Disagree R N B (Rhino Knows Best or else)!! I have mentioned culture many times over the last 5 years. We all know it has been lacking.

. shouldn't that be "R K B" ?....what a clanger/classic !

wyl, having read some of your debates of late, you have a tendency to not admit when you are wrong and get side tracked or change tack when confronted with damning evidence against you. sometimes it's just better to raise the white flag, admit your faults and you'll earn respect that way.

chin up mate.

[Demon trucker 1,776]

Yes quite insightful what the Bomber Blogs said- Our Rucks are the Worst in the Comp at this stage, which is going to make it hard from the outset

a great ruck man does not mack a great mid, frementle have the best ruckman, but are they a good team

[Sir Why You Little 34,697]

. shouldn't that be "R K B" ?....what a clanger/classic !

wyl, having read some of your debates of late, you have a tendency to not admit when you are wrong and get side tracked or change tack when confronted with damning evidence against you. sometimes it's just better to raise the white flag, admit your faults and you'll earn respect that way.

chin up mate.

I will Happily admit i am wrong when i am wrong sure, but when my sentences are pulled apart because someone does not agree with a point of view

that is a different matter.

i think what i have said in here is quite relevent to the topic of our club to be honest.

But our Good friend RR must always have the final say. I like to read everybody's posts and take them on board, some are rubbish, some are great, some i do not agree with, but a lot bring up points that have not been discussed before-different views perspectives.

That's what this place should be,

Chin up indeed....I will admit R N B ok, but not the rest!! :)

[Sir Why You Little 34,697]

a great ruck man does not mack a great mid, frementle have the best ruckman, but are they a good team

No it just showed how really poor we were, any other side apart from richmond would have totally thrashed us by 100+ points.

[Hobbits's 17]

No it just showed how really poor we were, any other side apart from richmond would have totally thrashed us by 100+ points.

seriously doubt the likes of carlton, sydney or essendon would have achieved that at present.

[Sir Why You Little 34,697]

seriously doubt the likes of carlton, sydney or essendon would have achieved that at present.

Maybe but don't forget we took a Q and a half to kick our first goal, and 2 of them were 9 pointers. 2 contested marks for the game!

carlton may have struggled, i forgot them, but sydney or essendon would have had a crack.

Hopefully this saturday there is more structure and contested possession

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

wyl, having read some of your debates of late, you have a tendency to not admit when you are wrong and get side tracked or change tack when confronted with damning evidence against you. sometimes it's just better to raise the white flag, admit your faults and you'll earn respect that way.

chin up mate.

At least I am not the only one who notices this.

I have mentioned culture many times over the last 5 years. We all know it has been lacking.

Its got nothing to do with the statements you made in Post 35. Whether you mentioned "culture" at all is neither here nor there.

I will Happily admit i am wrong when i am wrong sure, but when my sentences are pulled apart because someone does not agree with a point of view

that is a different matter.

i think what i have said in here is quite relevent to the topic of our club to be honest.

But our Good friend RR must always have the final say. I like to read everybody's posts....different views perspectives.

That's what this place should be,

WYL, I think the issue is that you're appear to be the last one to work out when your comments were wrong notwithstanding another poster has clearly demonstrated the fallacy of your statements.

All I have done is challenge your point of view and your assertions. I have provide some evidence to support my position and question yours. As usual, you shuffle, digress and introduce irrelevancies in the vain search for that veneer of credibility that eludes you.You dont like it. Fair enough. But this is right in line with "different views perspectives".

I leave it to you to have the final say WYL. I was happy to leave it at that before but deserve the right of reply and clarification in light of your misguided swipe at me.

[Sir Why You Little 34,697]

At least I am not the only one who notices this.

Its got nothing to do with the statements you made in Post 35. Whether you mentioned "culture" at all is neither here nor there.

WYL, I think the issue is that you're appear to be the last one to work out when your comments were wrong notwithstanding another poster has clearly demonstrated the fallacy of your statements.

All I have done is challenge your point of view and your assertions. I have provide some evidence to support my position and question yours. As usual, you shuffle, digress and introduce irrelevancies in the vain search for that veneer of credibility that eludes you.You dont like it. Fair enough. But this is right in line with "different views perspectives".

I leave it to you to have the final say WYL. I was happy to leave it at that before but deserve the right of reply and clarification in light of your misguided swipe at me.

I will have a beer with any Melbourne Supporter Rhino if you want to make a time...