World Cup loses its cheer

[beelzebub 22,244]

World Cup loses it cheer

"THE AFL has painted the dramatic scenario of a season laid to waste by a soccer World Cup in Australia, with the MCG unavailable for up to 12 weeks. "

3 months with no footy in Melbourne ? No thankyou.

I dont care to hear all the bleatings from the devotees of the "world game" i really dont. I couldnt care less if soccer fell over in this country. Yes theres room for many codes to co-exist..but I dont see the AFL preventing any other game from happening . It plays its game on its merits and allows others too.. alls fair in loive and war but to eliminate Football ( real Football ) from Melbourne at its rightful time is beyond bearing.

Vote NO to Soccer World Cup in OZ

This is Melbourne... we have traditions. Even two world wars couldnt bring this game to a halt and yet some trumped up clowns want to take our "right' away. I dont think so.

Traditionally the world cup is played and hosted by nations whose premier football code is soccer so its hardly an intrusion. This is Australia and its Premier code Is Australian Rules Football. If the world Cup doesnt think it can stack up against it in fair competition...then that says it all.

I'll be letting my local member know what I think of this ...I invite you to do likewise

Edited November 19, 2009 by belzebub59

[MikeyJ 60]

I'm all for the World Cup. If it means the season is interrupted and the AFL has to take the game to regional and rural Australia, so be it.

I would back the AFL to do whatever it took to run a season in conjunction with the World Cup, and I would back the Federal Government to do whatever it took to placate the domestic leagues.

[beelzebub 22,244]

I'm all for the World Cup. If it means the season is interrupted and the AFL has to take the game to regional and rural Australia, so be it.

I would back the AFL to do whatever it took to run a season in conjunction with the World Cup, and I would back the Federal Government to do whatever it took to placate the domestic leagues.

youre not getting it are you....it CANT run a season in conjunction with the Cup.. It would have to run it at a time other than the effective 12 week exclusion.. There are insufficient venues to hold this game in its current form except where it currently is. Thats why it is that way.

Consider the impact to clubs....its membership..its revenues..its sponsors. Cant just say well play footy at other times as that then impacts cricket etc..This is full of knock on effects.

Whilst the AFL officialy says its in favour..I hope it does everything in its power to scuttle it. The NRL has declared war..I would have thought the AFL to do so too. strange really.

In the end the Gov is going to have to spend Billions.. Billions to compensate everyone...and for what...some minority sporting group !! Every other sporting event has managed to survive whilst Melbourne plays footy.. or works with it.. FIFA is irrelevent in this country.

[45HG 1,539]

Quite the selfish view.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

I'm leaning towards your side Bub. I won't go all out and say they're the plague, but I will say football (you know, the game where the only way to score a goal is by using you foot?) needs to stand strong.

Should we indeed lose the MCG for 12 weeks, I'd be all for changing the schedule a bit, giving a 2-4 weeks break in the middle and perhaps stretching the season? I'd want to be sure that the AFL, as the current tenants of the MCG, would be fairly compensated for the World Cup taking over.

If you said to me that each club would get a share of 60 million dollars compensation for using our grounds, and that MFC would get 1/18th of that... then you'd be silly not to consider it.

It's all about what we, the MFC and they, the AFL get in return from soccer. If it's not worth our while, then screw them.

Also. I'm confused. Is it MELBOURNE the city that's bidding? Or is it Australia? Couldn't Sydney bid for it? If they did, would we be able to retain footy?

[Keyser Söze 0]

Quite the selfish view.

Is there something wrong with being selfish when concerned with self-preservation? Or rather, the preservation of our beloved AFL?

Stadium upgrades might be handy, but I also think a world cup would be detrimental to AFL more than anything.

Especially when trying to take hold in new markets like GC & WS (especially).

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

I got to admit...Soccer is improving its disposal of the ball by hand these days.

[beelzebub 22,244]

Quite the selfish view.

oh diddums....

This is akin to Ford building Holden a plant and going away from the market for 3months ! Selfish... looking after self... you bet.

Want to watch the World Cup....fire up your telly or take a trip.. This is an AFL country.. i see no reason to allow others to dictate to us ..about our past-times.

id have no qualms but for the exclusion. So youd place soccer above footy ?? Youd be happy if that particular years season all but disintegrated ?

[45HG 1,539]

Never said there was anything wrong with it - but I still see it as selfish, as you do.

This is the world's biggest sporting event and I'm sure the AFL could find a way to play the season around it - removing the pre season gives you 6 weeks, how in God's name the MCG would be unavailable for 12 weeks is beyond me - isn't the world cup about 7 weeks? Regardless you could extend the finishing time of the season.

Some sporting organisations in the world have upwards of 4 weeks break every year for winter - how precious are we that we can't accept any change to host the world's biggest sporting event.

[beelzebub 22,244]

Never said there was anything wrong with it - but I still see it as selfish, as you do.

This is the world's biggest sporting event and I'm sure the AFL could find a way to play the season around it - removing the pre season gives you 6 weeks, how in God's name the MCG would be unavailable for 12 weeks is beyond me - isn't the world cup about 7 weeks? Regardless you could extend the finishing time of the season.

Some sporting organisations in the world have upwards of 4 weeks break every year for winter - how precious are we that we can't accept any change to host the world's biggest sporting event.

im happy to say Im selfish.... Im just not GREEEEEEDY !!!!!!!!!!!! FIFA is.

how is the MCG unavailable..well my friend.. do some reading.. There is exclusion form all grounds for a month....so the poor littel grass leaves arent hurt!! time to prepare all stadia...remove all advertising ( thats not FIFA )

Im not the one unwilling to work in..... FIFA is.

Bet your bottom dollar any stadia upgrades wont be articualry to Footy's benefit either....will be those funny rectangular places...gee that helps us

How precious is FIFA ??

[MikeyJ 60]

youre not getting it are you....it CANT run a season in conjunction with the Cup.. It would have to run it at a time other than the effective 12 week exclusion.. There are insufficient venues to hold this game in its current form except where it currently is.

(snip hysterical rant)

I understand exactly what FIFA is asking for. I understand exactly how much disruption it would cause to the domestic football codes. And I say let them have it.

There are millions of people out there who don't care if the AFL or NRL seasons are interrupted. I'm one of them.

If Australia wins hosting rights for 2018, or more likely 2022, we have 10 years to plan for the disruption. No obstacle will be insurmountable if there is enough will from the Federal Government, and I suspect there is.

If we manage to win the rights to host the World Cup, it will be the greatest sporting spectacle this country has ever seen. It will put every other event in the shade and afterwards, we'll have a country full of modern, world-class sports stadiums.

I find it hard to believe that after 151 years, people don't think our code is strong enough to sustain one interrupted season brought about by the world's biggest event. The myopia is mind boggling.

[45HG 1,539]

FIFA is very precious, but you're sounding like a 5 year old who won't be able to go on a play date.

Why is Sydney unavailable for 5 weeks but the G for 10?

Sounds like fear mongering to me.

When did I say I gave a toss about stadium upgrades and its affects on AFL? If anything, the AFL need more boutique, down-scaled stadiums.

And don't act like the season is definitely delayed by 12 weeks - because that is not heralding the same reading you suggested me to do. Perth, Adelaide, the GABBA, Darwin, the SCG and ETIHAD will still be able to host games not to mention Casey or Optus Oval which will be option in 10 years.

Not 4 years ago the G was out of action for 5 weeks - result? No real biggy, the season carried on and barely anyone remembers that now. But continue whinging, please.

Edited November 20, 2009 by 45hotgod16

[beelzebub 22,244]

I find it hard to believe that after 151 years, people don't think our code is strong enough to sustain one interrupted season brought about by the world's biggest event. The myopia is mind boggling.

I find it hard to believe that after 151 years, people don't think soccer is strong enough to sustain one shared season brought about by the world's biggest event. The myopia is mind boggling.

[beelzebub 22,244]

FIFA is very precious, but you're sounding like a 5 year old who won't be able to go on a play date.

Why is Sydney unavailable for 5 weeks but the G for 10?

Sounds like fear mongering to me.

When did I say I gave a toss about stadium upgrades and its affects on AFL? If anything, the AFL need more boutique, down-scaled stadiums.

Im happy to compromise..The AFL is happy to compromise. is FIFA ?? ..aparently not...whose the petulant 5 yo ...huh ??

[hoopla 418]

Bub - you are spot on - vote 'no' to the World Cup.

Unfortunately soccer is a threat to our great game - because of the convaluted logic which says that a sport must somehow be superior simply because it is played in a lot of countries around the world !It's one thing to compete - its another to deprive us of our game - and to prosper from the use of facilities we have built!!

The AFL is right to demand significant compensation. If it wasn't for stadiums built by the AFL for the AFL - Australia would not be in a position to bid for the World Cup. The international soccer community is not poor. It can afford to compensate us for destroying our season - and it should do so generously.

[MikeyJ 60]

Bub, you're clearly a little-picture kind of guy.

If the Federal Government decides to wholeheartedly back the bid - and we will know in early December, if Rudd gives FIFA a guarantee that the stadium infrastructure will be built - then that is that.

I can see where you are coming from but I think your trepidation is unwarranted.

There will be an undeniable disruption, but if the Federal Government, the AFL and the NRL can't organise a workable season around the World Cup with 10 years of planning, we've got bigger problems than you think.

Of course, there will be significant financial compensation to sporting competitions affected by the Cup.

But I repeat, the World Cup is the biggest, richest, most expensive event on the planet. I think FIFA is well within its rights to demand that the host country abides by strict guidelines to ensure the tournament is played on the best possible surfaces.

You're well within your rights to disagree, but accept that millions of other Australians will hold a different view.

Edited November 20, 2009 by MikeyJ

[beelzebub 22,244]

Actually I am a VERY BIG picture sort of guy...and its this vision that daunts me. Hoopla is on the ball ( oval one of course )

So biggest is best ??...Do I ..or should anyone really care what "they " all want. How grand to simply dismiss all the effects to our game and others positions as simply ... unwarranted.

For a flash in the pan occurrence you and many will want a total abdication of our governance.. Some others step in and tell us what we can and cant do?

There will be very little benefit for our code in all this and quite frankly I dont care a lot about the others. It matters not that theres a huge TV audience as FIFA takes most of that. These arent your typical potential tourists by the way. Most of the audience will never visit our shores as a result.

Harking back to your big picture...I can se Rugby and Soccer benefiting immensely form new facilites.. why should I want that as an AFL supporter ?

[BAMF 3,787]

Big picture is - World cup soccer in Australia = Awesome.

AFL will still be played. No matter what.

We are talking about 2018 / 2022. Its a long time away. Im sure we would be able to come up with a solution by then.

The article which has been linked to in the opening post has set out to get a shock reaction and has done it perfectly.

The world cup runs for almost exactually a month. Maybe this thread should be started when we actually win the rights to hold the event.

[Craig Drinker 179]

Must admit I am struggling to think past the National Draft (Bring it on!) let alone to something that may or may not take place in some 8 years time or so.

[rpfc 27,573]

Why does this have to be zero-sum?

We get the world's attention for a month, we get thrown around to a few odd places for 8 weeks.

Could be our chance to get Casey as a 25000 capacity stadium to play GC17, PA, WS, and Freo and make some money.

[Diablo Deemon 220]

Why does this have to be zero-sum?

We get the world's attention for a month, we get thrown around to a few odd places for 8 weeks.

Could be our chance to get Casey as a 25000 capacity stadium to play GC17, PA, WS, and Freo and make some money.

That would be ideal a little boutique stadium which MFC could rule with an iron fist make complete profit on the gate and

services delivery contractors paying MFC for the privelage, signage sponsers our own Kardinia Park.

As an aside i was reading that the difference in profit for Collingwood if it's home game is ANZAC day is between 500,000 and 1 million

extraordinary considering I believe MFC has as much right to play in an ANZAC game.

[furious d 447]

It's in the very, very early stages of negotiating Bub. The AFL's just had it's first meeting to consider it's options. They haven't even decided on a submission to put to FIFA as yet, so how do you reach the conclusion that FIFA isn't willing to compromise? It reached a compromise with major sports in the US which is probably the only country to host a world cup where soccer isn't the #1 code. There is a precedent. It's way to early to get this upset. I'd rather an AFL season to a World Cup if it came to that, but I don't think it will.

I've read the 12 week disruption is 4 weeks of tournament, 4 weeks to prepare the surface(no play), and 4 weeks to fit out the stadiums(remove and replace advertising,etc). The AFL's strategy has to be to minimise the disruption and try to get permission to play games during the tournament. If the AFL could stage 2 split rounds, or 1 round over the 4 weeks of the tournament at the very least, it would be getting international exposure it could only dream of. It would be an interesting curiosity for the near million tourists and the international media. they are football fans after all. Games may have to be played in regional areas, Canberra, Darwin or even an international game or two. South Africa and New Zealand maybe.

4 weeks to put the advertising back up sounds ridiculously excessive to me. If compensation is available some could be used to pay for the loss of advertising, and we could play in font of the world cup signs.

Anyway, my point is, right now it's an opportunity to take our game to all sorts of places and give it exposure like never before. If the FFA or FIFA refuse to budge and the AFL's only option is to cancel the season, then it's war! Keep your powder dry, but have it ready.

Edited November 20, 2009 by furious d

[Gippy Dee 48]

They should just pack all the soccer fans into Bob Jane Stadium.

Issue resolved.

My Fee is in the mail.

Gippy.

[beelzebub 22,244]

The difference with the US situation and baseball was there was still many town/cities avaialble in which either game could be held without too much disruption. We cant really do that here.

The Age 20/11/09

""Under FIFA regulations no major competitions can take place in any city hosting World Cup matches for the duration of the tournament. Grounds being used for matches have to be clean of all existing advertising and not used for the four weeks leading up to the competition matches.

Although the AFL is pushing for a number of compromises, key soccer sources told The Age that FIFA would not relax any guidelines.""

Arguably thats not in stone yet. Am happy to compromise as indeed would I Imagine the AFL and NRL and yet at the same time as David Smorgon puts it "Why would you give a free handpass to your biggest competitor?"

If the AFL could stage 2 split rounds, or 1 round over the 4 weeks of the tournament at the very least, it would be getting international exposure it could only dream of.

How is this International exposure generated exactly...by whom and at whom?

Casey? Im sure FIFA would regard that as being in the same city.. Youre looking to hold games (AFL ) at SHell... Aurora ..Bendigo.

So where and how did FIFA compromise ?? I dont think its quite a compromise at all

[furious d 447]

The difference with the US situation and baseball was there was still many town/cities avaialble in which either game could be held without too much disruption. We cant really do that here.

The Age 20/11/09

""Under FIFA regulations no major competitions can take place in any city hosting World Cup matches for the duration of the tournament. Grounds being used for matches have to be clean of all existing advertising and not used for the four weeks leading up to the competition matches.

Although the AFL is pushing for a number of compromises, key soccer sources told The Age that FIFA would not relax any guidelines.""

Arguably thats not in stone yet. Am happy to compromise as indeed would I Imagine the AFL and NRL and yet at the same time as David Smorgon puts it "Why would you give a free handpass to your biggest competitor?"

How is this International exposure generated exactly...by whom and at whom?

Casey? Im sure FIFA would regard that as being in the same city.. Youre looking to hold games (AFL ) at SHell... Aurora ..Bendigo.

So where and how did FIFA compromise ?? I dont think its quite a compromise at all

I don't have a problem with games being played in Geelong, Canberra, Darwin, Bendigo, Shepparton, Warrnambool or whereever for a few weeks.

As for international exposure, a fair contingent of the worlds sporting press turns up at these events and if you've ever watched an Olympics or World Cup you'd notice that it's not all 100% about the event. Plenty of human interest and culturally signifigant bullcarp about the host nation gets thrown in with it. It's one of the reasons cities and nations bid for these things. Do you you really think the quirky, weird indigenous football wouldn't rate a few mentions, especially with the passion it generates here.

At the same time I think around 900,000 tourists turn up to a world cup (could be wrong, but I remember hearing that figure somewhere). If the AFL could attract 5% of them to a game while they're here, nearly 50,000 people from god knows where get to see a live AFL game fror premiership points. 10% would be 90,000, I think that's do-able. It'd take 10 games in London to attract that international audience, and they'd be 90% expat aussie's anyway. I don't know if it would amount to much in terms of long term fans for our game, but it'd be more exposure than the AFLcould ever hope to generate on it's own.