Get out Son.

Says the guy who spends much of his time at 'Bay 13' calling 12 year old bigfooty posters "flogs". You have so much to offer in terms of footy nous but instead spend so much time scoring points at the expense of fellow Melbourne supporters.

And the worst part of all? You get guys like me, recently become a Dad, enjoying quality time with my new family and having a break from work. I simply couldn't be more positive about life right now and in the spare time that I find myself with I log on to my favourite website to indulge my passion and find myself getting frustrated at the personal crap that's flying around this place. And what have I gone and done? Had a crack at you and probably added to the negative tone of the site.

Well done H.

I didn't read it. But let me tell you it's a beautiful day. I've been out since 7.30am and there are joggers around Alexandra Ave, rowers, etc. Yet you're couped up at home punching out meaningless crap - I assume.

Get out Son.

Well actually I'm sitting on a beach, tanning myself and working the iPhone.

I've also just finished making notes for a forthcoming lecture I'll be delivering to my Fifth Year Medicine students on Psychoanalysis. The rant filled posts which Old Xaverian and your own good self have disseminated around this thread have provided me with ample raw material for the subject I'll be covering.

Thank you.

PS: Whilst there are no joggers here on the beach at the moment, there is no shortage of interesting creatures to observe. Am I out far enough for you?

Thanks folks for alerting me to what a wonderful day it is out there.

If I may digress and return to the subject matter at hand, I notice that in one of today's papers Tim Harrington is quoted as saying that there's been no movement on Luke Ball as yet. Reading between the lines, this is giving me the feeling that Ball remains set on moving to the club of his choice i.e. Collingwood.

On the other hand, I just can't see any way that guarantees he can easily get there. I actually have a lot of sympathy for the view that says after giving 7 or 8 year's of service to one club, he should be allowed to get to the club of his choice (and that the first club should be reasonably compensated). Whatever happens with Ball I think it's fairly certain that the introduction of some form of free agency is imminent.

I really struggle with the idea that St Kilda would be prepared to let him go unless they thought he had a very limited future. As a player with much talked about 'leadership' credentials I'm surprised that the papers haven't been filled with stories quoting concerned team-mates announcing their support for their former skipper, talking up how important he is to their quest for a premiership.

If a young player with attitude issues but a heap of talent is delisted by his club, we're quick to consider our club's ability to "turn him around" and a thread instantly appears promoting us taking him. The vast majority of posters quickly oppose the idea and the words "culture" and "cancer" are often mentioned. If a more experienced player with injury issues is delisted we always seem to think that those injury issues will go away. Do we honestly think we have the facilities and the track record to unlock Luke Ball's obvious injury problems? Do we honestly think that St Kilda would let Luke Ball go if they thought he had it in him to reproduce his All-Australian form?

Thanks folks for alerting me to what a wonderful day it is out there.

If I may digress and return to the subject matter at hand, I notice that in one of today's papers Tim Harrington is quoted as saying that there's been no movement on Luke Ball as yet. Reading between the lines, this is giving me the feeling that Ball remains set on moving to the club of his choice i.e. Collingwood.

On the other hand, I just can't see any way that guarantees he can easily get there. I actually have a lot of sympathy for the view that says after giving 7 or 8 year's of service to one club, he should be allowed to get to the club of his choice (and that the first club should be reasonably compensated). Whatever happens with Ball I think it's fairly certain that the introduction of some form of free agency is imminent.

I'm afraid I'm dead against free agency. Ball's apparent desire to go a club with premiership aspirations is a classic illustration of the way in which free agency will work in favour of the stronger clubs. But my greatest concern about it is the way it will progressively erode club loyalties amongst players ...and ultimately supporters. The culture "stick with it through thick 'n think" will be replaced by " if it get's tough go somewhere else "

Although the AFLPA like to say otherwise - as a practical matter it is never easy for professionals to go where they want, to do what they want when they want to do it. No systems are perfect - there is always compromise. Free agency is a threat to the competition as we know it - and the AFL is right to resist it.

Edited October 31, 200915 yr by hoopla

I didn't read it. But let me tell you it's a beautiful day. I've been out since 7.30am and there are joggers around Alexandra Ave, rowers, etc. Yet you're couped up at home punching out meaningless crap - I assume.

Get out Son.

Telling him to get out when you've been signed up 9 days longer yet posted an extra 2049 posts is a bit rich.

My wife has a cousin whose brother-in-law is the taxi driver who drove Luke Ball home from Tullamarine the other day and, as a consequence, she has a fair insight into this whole sordid affair.

Ball said very little for much of the ride home. He mumbled a few platitudes about the weather and the traffic but wasn't in a talkative mood. He appeared severely jet lagged (memo: check out any medical connection between OP, DVT and jet lag - it could be important) but his body language apparently gave it all away.

As a result, here's the latest on Luke Ball almost straight from the horse's mouth:

Ball's choices as far as his future direction are limited -

St. Kilda - his bridges are almost burnt there. Lyon is not a big fan and told the Saint faithful on grand final night that if a player doesn't like it at Linton Street then he can pizz off as far as he was concerned. The club would help him on the way out. Ball took up the offer and look what occurred? If they kiss and make up it will be an awkard year with club and player biding their time until next year's trade week. The atmosphere at the club where the Goose appears to have been shafted as well would potentially become cancerous.

Collingw&%$ - according to one view, the Pies were already into Darren Jolly for who they were prepared to part with their first round draft choice (and more) and, true to their tradition, they weren't willing to do the proper thing and trade out the right players to adequately compensate the Saints for Ball. In this way Collingw&%$ has also shafted young Luke despite heavily courting him  with a hefty contract. 

There are some  Collingw&%$ people who suffer from delusions of grandeur (aka McGuires Disease) who believe they could get Ball with ND selection # 30 but this (like claims that Steel Sidebottom is already the Messiah) is somewhat fanciful given the number of clubs (including more than one interstater) that would take him with an earlier selection. Even if he falls to pick 30, is that really a win for Collingw&%$ given that its next pick is # 62 and this would effectively rule out the club from selecting any quality youth in the last draft for three or four years before the existing clubs will get a half decent crack at drafting quality youth again?

Melbourne - obviously interested but will they remain interested if they see a person who is less than enthusiastic about coming on board? How will he fit into an up and coming team with a number of budding young stars? It's said that he's impatient and doesn't want to endure the long wait before his team is capable of attaining finals football standard again. He must have a short memory because the Saints were down near the bottom when he was drafted at the end of 2001 and in his third year at the club in 2004 they strung together an opening winning streak of 10 games, made the finals and but for an ordinary performance from a coach out of his depth could have gone on to greater honours. Which raises the question whether, if a three year wait for success is not enough, is he the right person? And that's without even raising the issues that led to him getting limited game time from his coach in the latter stages of 2009.

The conclusion is that despite pressure from family and a manager who probably has a lot on his plate, Ball has to do some soul searching in the next few days and so do a few clubs.

There you are. Even though Luke Ball hardly opened his mouth on the long drive home from Tulla, my wife's cousin's brother-in-law managed to suss it all out.

Fine Piece of writing. Martin Flanagan would be impressed with that one!

Sidebottom, one of at least 10 players from that draft already superior to Watts.

cool

would you care to GTFO or shall I explain to you, AGAIN (I'm sure my fellows have tried) that Watts was never even meant to play in '09? That most players drafted in the 1st and 2nd rounds would play better footy at AFL level than Watts in year 1? That if Watts had been around at your pick you wouldn't have even taken a glance at Sidebottom?!?

You do go for Collingwood I suppose, it's not your fault you're impaired

I still hate Judd for the imperial manner in which he dismissed our club.

I don't hate individual players, I don't see the point. As many of you on Demonland know however I hate his club with a passion. Every misfortune that befalls them thrills me. I am looking forward to the next time we smash them in a game. It will come. I can't wait. If we win a flag before they do and Judd is still playing, that will be the icing on the cake. I would love to see the scum finish last in the next three years giving them no chance of strong drafting, it won't happen but I can dream.

I'm afraid I'm dead against free agency. Ball's apparent desire to go a club with premiership aspirations is a classic illustration of the way in which free agency will work in favour of the stronger clubs. But my greatest concern about it is the way it will progressively erode club loyalties amongst players ...and ultimately supporters. The culture "stick with it through thick 'n think" will be replaced by " if it get's tough go somewhere else "

Although the AFLPA like to say otherwise - as a practical matter it is never easy for professionals to go where they want, to do what they want when they want to do it. No systems are perfect - there is always compromise. Free agency is a threat to the competition as we know it - and the AFL is right to resist it.

Well, I'm afraid its coming and soon, whether we'd like it or not.

I expect it will take some sort of restricted form, with the team a player wishes to leave having the option of matching an opposing team's offer.

It would obviously need to involve some clause for arranging a trade.

Its all going to become very complicated and messy.

Unfortunately it will integrally change the game as we know it.

One of my best friends is ROK (I played school footy against for years)

Old Xav you've just completed the picture for me here. The fact that you're best friends with ROK makes you a [censored] via association with such a dropkick. The fact that you're a pies supporter who follows other clubs forums says enough. ROK was a [censored] during his school days and still is.

Edited October 31, 200915 yr by The O

Starting to think we won't get him... But that is ok.

Our team will be fine. I want him at the Demons but all will be ok.

I have to admit my feelings are leaning towards us not getting him as well, but i too am not upset about it. As far as i'm concerned we've done well already in the trading period and we'll kick ass in the drafting period, Ball would be a bonus. Nothing more.

I have to admit my feelings are leaning towards us not getting him as well, but i too am not upset about it. As far as i'm concerned we've done well already in the trading period and we'll kick ass in the drafting period, Ball would be a bonus. Nothing more.

According to Caro he doesn't want to come to the wooden spooner ( no disrespect intended ).

According to Caro he doesn't want to come to the wooden spooner ( no disrespect intended ).

Fair enough.

What's the penalty for draft tampering ( no disrespect intended ) ?

Edited October 31, 200915 yr by Elwood 3184

Gee, this is like the adult version of wondering what you are going to get for Christmas and your parents have given you jsut a few vague hints to go on.

Jack, I'm similarly sympathetic, but that sympathy has serious limitations. I heard Brendan Schwab speaking on SEN some weeks ago and he put forward that argument that footy is the only workplace where you cannot choose your employer. As a result, AFL players are restricted more than any other workplace and this injustice needs to be corrected.

I almost ran off the road.

I hope to hell that there are better arguments than that because if there are not, then the bloody overpaid and overvalued lot of them can continue in the system as it stands.

Gee, this is like the adult version of wondering what you are going to get for Christmas and your parents have given you jsut a few vague hints to go on.

Jack, I'm similarly sympathetic, but that sympathy has serious limitations. I heard Brendan Schwab speaking on SEN some weeks ago and he put forward that argument that footy is the only workplace where you cannot choose your employer. As a result, AFL players are restricted more than any other workplace and this injustice needs to be corrected.

I almost ran off the road.

I hope to hell that there are better arguments than that because if there are not, then the bloody overpaid and overvalued lot of them can continue in the system as it stands.

Someone on here described it this way: they can choose their employer; their employer is the AFL. The clubs are simply divisions within their employer of choice. Changing employers would be leaving the AFL system altogether and playing in the SANFL/VFL/WAFL. Changing AFL clubs is simply changing which department in your employer you work for.

With the way the AFL is structured these days, i.e. all the clubs being funded extremely heavily by the AFL and having no control over many of their own revenue streams (such as merchandising etc), I reckon this argument makes a lot of sense.

Fair enough.

What's the penalty for draft tampering ( no disrespect intended ) ?

Draft tampering or Ball tampering?

Says the guy who spends much of his time at 'Bay 13' calling 12 year old bigfooty posters "flogs". You have so much to offer in terms of footy nous but instead spend so much time scoring points at the expense of fellow Melbourne supporters.

How would you know how much time I spend there ? Why do you spend time reading there ? How do you know their ages ? Footy banter has a habit of making the best posters seem childish. Just ask Fan when it comes to Rono.

I did go through a stage where I posted there too often, as it is somewhat enjoyable to have banter with opposition supporters. There comes a time when the "should we keep Barty", or "what do you think of Juice" type threads reach their expiry date. That said, I've reached mine. And I recognise it.

I hope Ball stays a Saint!

We can pick up another young kid with our Pre-season Pick 1 who slips through. Melbourne's midfield will be exceptional in two years without him. And the leadership at the Demons with the addition of this years draftees is overwhelming. Davey, Grimes, Trengove, Etc etc.

I hope we can surprise with another Liam MkII.