Brock McLean has left the building

[Hannabal 4]

No. Not wrong. IN all your infinite wisdom, neither are you right. You wouldn't know where Scully would have gone last year. I don't think you could prove it in any way shape or form that he'd have been top 3. It's just your opinion based on what you've seen in the juniors and mostly youtube. You know plenty, that much is true, but you don't know this. Not definitively.

Yes. Yes wrong.

Graham Cornes and plenty of others have compared Trengove favourably to not only McLeod, Riccuito, and Gibbs from their SANFL days at the same age, but Cornes has stated, "no, he's raised the bar, he's at Nathan Buckley's level", or words to that effect - the exact quote is on this forum. So, by any reasonable measure Trengove would have been an early pick in 08, especially when one considers that he's not being compared to another South Australian in Hartlett who went at pick 4 last year as he's clearly considered a rung above. Do you think it's fair to say that if given a choice last year between Hartlett or Trengove that Port would have taken Trengove at 4 ?

I've no doubt that if Scully and Trengove were in last year's draft they would have gone top 4. Both have shown considerably more than Stephen Hill who went at pick 3, and despite the 'home grown' angle I can't see Freo having passed either up.

Also, because this draft is considered shallow doesn't mean that the top 3 are inferior to any other year. Imo, the top 3 of this year will compare favourably to the top 3 of just about any other year.

The Dees have been kissed on the dick.

[Ryan Dee 140]

Yes. Yes wrong.

Graham Cornes and plenty of others have compared Trengove favourably to not only McLeod, Riccuito, and Gibbs from their SANFL days at the same age, but Cornes has stated, "no, he's raised the bar, he's at Nathan Buckley's level", or words to that effect - the exact quote is on this forum. So, by any reasonable measure Trengove would have been an early pick in 08, especially when one considers that he's not being compared to another South Australian in Hartlett who went at pick 4 last year as he's clearly considered a rung above. Do you think it's fair to say that if given a choice last year between Hartlett or Trengove that Port would have taken Trengove at 4 ?

I've no doubt that if Scully and Trengove were in last year's draft they would have gone top 4. Both have shown considerably more than Stephen Hill who went at pick 3, and despite the 'home grown' angle I can't see Freo having passed either up.

Also, because this draft is considered shallow doesn't mean that the top 3 are inferior to any other year. Imo, the top 3 of this year will compare favourably to the top 3 of just about any other year.

The Dees have been kissed on the dick.

Pointless arguement, let alone in a Brock Mclean thread. You can't guess where both players would have gone in last years draft, you just can't unless your a recruiting manager. There are a lot of factors which go into picking a high draft pick and there is no need to take offence to the fact that Scully or Trengove might not have gone in the top 3. You both cannot predict if they would or wouldn't have gone in the top 3.

Edited October 2, 2009 by Mr Morton

[Hannabal 4]

You both cannot predict if they would or wouldn't have gone in the top 3.

But I just did.

[Ryan Dee 140]

But I just did.

No you didn't.

Predict means to tell in advance.

[Hannabal 4]

No you didn't.

Predict means to tell in advance.

'Retrospective'.

Thanks for your interest.

[Ryan Dee 140]

'Retrospective'.

Thanks for your interest.

Un-related to what I said. Pointless adding in words which do not follow a conversation. Ok sorry im done

[Hannabal 4]

Un-related to what I said. Pointless adding in words which do not follow a conversation. Ok sorry im done

OK

Forgiven.

[rpfc 27,451]

The Dees have been kissed on the dick.

This would be close to being my sig for a while...

I believe the proper term for the internets is 'ROFL'.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Our recruiters told some journos that Scully was Judd-like in the internal rating system.

Got no idea what it all means, but it does tell you that in any draft, let alone this one or last years, Scully is going high.

They say that about every player, every year. In fact, you'll find they say something along those lines about every draft pick in the top 10. I never said Scully wasn't going high.

Paul Connors and Kevin Sheehan have both stated that Scully would've gone top 3 last year but hey, what would they know.

Scully has being tracked at a young age for a reason but stick with your quarter full glass.

Speak when you're spoken to. Connors and Sheehan say crap like that, again, about most players in the top 5 or 6 every draft year. I'm not talking about what overly dramatic media types and recruiters trying to blow a players tyres up are saying. I'm talking about what I believe would have happened in last year's draft compared to this years.

I could name a dozen recruiters and analysts who claim this year is a skinny draft, more than just Sheehan and Connors.

Graham Cornes and plenty of others have compared Trengove favourably to not only McLeod, Riccuito, and Gibbs from their SANFL days at the same age, but Cornes has stated, "no, he's raised the bar, he's at Nathan Buckley's level", or words to that effect - the exact quote is on this forum.

Oh no. You didn't just quote Graham Cornes did you? I can't believe you just did that! There has never been a more parochial name in Aussie rules. I doubt he'd have seen more than a handful of games, and probably only puts his name up there to catapult him into the minds of Victorians so that he can claim he;s the best midfielder going round, whether he is or not.

For what it's worth, every year there's plenty of names touted as "number #1." And the people who make these comments, every year, sometimes contradict themselves. But we don't need to go down the path of "Who rates who," do we? Bottom line, we're talking about your opinion and mine. Or more specifically, what YOU think the 16 recruiters would have done with Scully in the 2008 draft, and what I think they'd have done.

So, by any reasonable measure Trengove would have been an early pick in 08, especially when one considers that he's not being compared to another South Australian in Hartlett who went at pick 4 last year as he's clearly considered a rung above. Do you think it's fair to say that if given a choice last year between Hartlett or Trengove that Port would have taken Trengove at 4 ?

Like I said, I think I rated Trengove harshly at first. For what it's worth, I hadn't seen his SANFL prelim at that point, and it's fair to say that match has pushed him high enough now that I have trouble deciding which player is more worthy of the #1. So I'll give you that one, but under protest.

I've no doubt that if Scully and Trengove were in last year's draft they would have gone top 4. Both have shown considerably more than Stephen Hill who went at pick 3, and despite the 'home grown' angle I can't see Freo having passed either up.

Freo passed up Rich, Hurley and Vickery... I just can't fathom where they are coming from those blokes. And I put their management of picks down to a basic insanity, therefore they are outside this arguement. Oh, and I can COMPLETELY see them passing on both these guys. They're Freo.

Also, because this draft is considered shallow doesn't mean that the top 3 are inferior to any other year. Imo, the top 3 of this year will compare favourably to the top 3 of just about any other year.

Could well be true. All I'm saying is going on what I've seen, the only thing that separates Scully and Trengove from last years (and most years) crop is that they were playing well against men... Oh, and the fact that Scully was putting together good games a YEAR before he was drafted. However I think it's important to highlight how rarely KP players play against men in their early years... Hence the fact I feel Scully and Trengove would have dropped outside those first few. You only need to look at our list to see how hard they are to come by. Watts and Nicnat were ALWAYS 1 and 2. And past Freo's choice, I'd have taken Hurley. In a second.

A couple of interesting examples. I think Hurley actually played some very good footy in the TAC cup a year before he was drafted. A KP player who did it over 2 years and he wasn't even in the top 3. I believe Rich had payed some footy amongst men (correct me if I'm wrong) and he wasn't in the top 6 either.

The Dees have been kissed on the dick.

Gave me a chuckle.

When you boil it down, what I'm trying to highlight here is that these are still just new draftees. They come to us with a lot of credentials, just like VERY #1 draft pick. And as far as that goes, there's no reason to be more negative about Scully and Trengove than any other #1 or #2 pick. What I'm objecting to is the amount of moke being blown up their asses. They COULD go on to be the next Judd and Riccuito or whatever... and it could go horribly wrong. I just don't see the proof, statistical or otherwise, of either players claim on those titles... the same as every year since they said Bizzell was the next Ablett. Don't get me wrong. My glass is more than half full on both players, and I am by NO means predicting they will both fail at the first hurdle...

Pointless arguement, let alone in a Brock Mclean thread. You can't guess where both players would have gone in last years draft, you just can't unless your a recruiting manager.

Unless you're ALL the recruiting managers.

[jacey 333]

Speak when you're spoken to. Connors and Sheehan say crap like that, again, about most players in the top 5 or 6 every draft year. I'm not talking about what overly dramatic media types and recruiters trying to blow a players tyres up are saying. I'm talking about what I believe would have happened in last year's draft compared to this years.

I could name a dozen recruiters and analysts who claim this year is a skinny draft, more than just Sheehan and Connors.

I'm sorry. Here i thought it was a forum. Not the Dandy Dan's forum. Speak when you are spoken to. Someone's clearly got their head stuck up their arse about their importance.

Also staggering that some stupid reason because we only have 8 months talent to pick from instead of 12, people are actually thinking Pick 1 and 2 are inferior to previous years.

Scully and Trengove look about as good as any top 2 in previous years. People are actually poking holes in Scully. Here's a shocker. He's a kid. No player is a complete product at 18. Scully and Trengove looks as or more promising (as 18 y.o) then Cotchin, Deliedio then and any highly rated mids.

Give me a highly rated midfielder in the last 10 years with no holes in their game. No doubt you've been worrying about Cotchin's ability to break tags, Rich's speed and gut running abilities, Ziebell's tank.

Edited October 2, 2009 by jacey

[rpfc 27,451]

That's a bit harsh Jacey. But I will say this - you can go on, DD.

Pithiness is a virtue.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

I'm sorry. Here i thought it was a forum. Not the Dandy Dan's forum. Speak when you are spoken to. Someone's clearly got their head stuck up their arse about their importance.

Dandy Dan? Who's that? I never made any inference to my importance. I only pointed out that neither one of us asked you for your advice/comment. Wonder why that is? Have I ever barged in to a to-and-fro between you and another poster?

Also staggering that some stupid reason because we only have 8 months talent to pick from instead of 12, people are actually thinking Pick 1 and 2 are inferior to previous years.

Wow. The draft is skinny. Fact. Also a fact is that the likely 1 and 2 picks are midfielders... NOT KP players, which make them less rare. This hasn't stopped you from butting your ignorant head in where it wasn't wanted, whilst simultaneously missing the point of what I was saying completely.

Scully and Trengove look about as good as any top 2 in previous years. People are actually poking holes in Scully. Here's a shocker. He's a kid. No player is a complete product at 18. Scully and Trengove looks as or more promising (as 18 y.o) then Cotchin, Deliedio then and any highly rated mids.

Who's poking holes in Scully?!!! What are you on?!! Fair dinkum. When you've quite finished chest beating, why don't we go back and READ what I've written. Then find where either one of us asked the all-knowing Jacey for his advice?

Give me a highly rated midfielder in the last 10 years with no holes in their game. No doubt you've been worrying about Cotchin's ability to break tags, Rich's speed and gut running abilities, Ziebell's tank.

Um. No. Never made any comments in any way like those. I'll say it again, they're midfielders. Many of last year's picks were KP players. Scully is NOT as highly rated as Watts, because there just aren't many kids Watts' size that can move that well. Simple.

I'll say it again, and we'll see if you can ignore this as well. Hannibal and I were engaged in a to and fro. We didn't ask for, or need your poor excuse for a contribution to our conversation. So, you little upstart, when I want your opinion, I'll ask for it.

That's a bit harsh Jacey. But I will say this - you can go on, DD.

Pithiness is a virtue.

Yup. Not the first to notice this. I have gotten better though, haven't I? I have way too much time on my hands, and can't think of too many better things to talk about than MFC... so here I am!

[jacey 333]

Dandy Dan? Who's that? I never made any inference to my importance. I only pointed out that neither one of us asked you for your advice/comment. Wonder why that is? Have I ever barged in to a to-and-fro between you and another poster?

Hannibal and I were engaged in a to and fro. We didn't ask for, or need your poor excuse for a contribution to our conversation. So, , when I want your opinion, I'll ask for it.

This is a forum. If you and Hannabal want to have a private conversation, get a room and thrash it out. When you post on an open forum, it's open season.

And when has forums needed invitations from you to post? Seriously what are you 5? Oh no, someone's butted in a private conversation on a open forum. Time to whinge and whip up an essay. Let's drown people in words.

Hannabal is right. The demons have been kissed on the Dappa Dan.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Can we just say that the MFC has been kissed on the dick?

I really just want to reach a middle ground that states we have been kissed on the dick.

Are we all in agreement that we have been kissed on the dick?

Kissed on the dick.

This thread may be removed by morning...

I have been overseas for two weeks but that's golden. Well done H and rpfc.

I am happy with the decision. Could be good for both clubs and the player. Pick 11 is good value for a player who I reckon at best has treaded water over the past 3 years even allowing for injuries. With the influx of new talent and the pressure to take a pay cut, I think McLean saw the writing on the wall.

I am excited by the opportunity to have 4 picks in the top 18!

[Redleg 37,576]

I have been overseas for two weeks but that's golden. Well done H and rpfc.

I am excited by the opportunity to have 4 picks in the top 18!

Welcome back. I missed you.

Don't get too excited, we may have only 3 picks in top 18 as pick 18 I believe will be swapped for AE from Dogs.

Edited October 2, 2009 by Redleg

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Welcome back. I missed you.

Don't get too excited, we may have only 3 picks in top 18 as pick 18 I believe will be swapped for AE from Dogs.

Thank you

Really?? I had not caught up on that one.

I have been in China and when Guru Bob says that when Collingwood lose in the finals, 1.5 billion Chinese could not give a toss, the Guru was right!!!!

When I heard about the 60th brithday celebrations in Tianannemen (spelling?) Square I thought Geelong are older than that and Ryrie St would have been more appropriate.

[Redleg 37,576]

Thank you

Really?? I had not caught up on that one.

Stick around for the next seven days and you will see 50 rumoured trades of which about 3-4 will actually happen. It's a great time of year.

[H_T 2,941]

"I'll speak to Melbourne and see whether there might be something else that they might want to give back our way. At this stage, what we've agreed on will make the deal happen.

Icke can get his hand off it. Yeh, we can offer 34 and we'll take their 27 for it.......along with pick 11.

Icke should remember we're already offering Brock McLean.

The Dees have been kissed on the dick.

Can we just say that the MFC has been kissed on the dick?

I really just want to reach a middle ground that states we have been kissed on the dick.

Are we all in agreement that we have been kissed on the dick?

Kissed on the dick.

This thread may be removed by morning...

I think we can honestly say..............................................I'll just agree.

[rpfc 27,451]

KOTD.

[Rogue 585]

This is a forum. If you and Hannabal want to have a private conversation, get a room and thrash it out. When you post on an open forum, it's open season.

And when has forums needed invitations from you to post? Seriously what are you 5? Oh no, someone's butted in a private conversation on a open forum.

Well said.