Shaun Burgoyne walks out on Port Adelaide

[LITTLE STINGA 1]

Actually..

They were Burgoynes CAREER STATS Vs Daveys 1ST YEAR STATS as a mid

SB stats aren't great for midfielder stats - over a career.. that was my point

He's had 2 great seasons 06 & 07 and the rest has been filler.

He's great when everything and everyone is up an running,

but the circumstances arent perfect, he can be shut out of the game too easily.

Imo, he definately not Ports or (not going to be) ours or EFCs or HFCs best player.. just a cherry on top

Can you bring up those stats or at least show me were to look for them please?

The third paragraph sounds a lot like Davey. Don't you want another Davey in the side.

Burgoyne's best is match winning worth chasing him just for that and before everyone writes not for that much does anyone think that we will go anywhere when everyone seems to be more worried about our finances usually you have to spend money to make money I think that he would be a worthwhile investment.

BTW who would be a better player than Burgoyne at Port, Essendon and us I can't think of one.

[dee-man 0]

Again, why?

Why would the club inflate player contracts instead of taking them on their merit (paying as "normal" as you put it)? You seem to have a grasp of the numbers which is fine, I don't know the rules that govern how a club goes about it's contracts but unless the club is forced to pay a certain proportion (not maximum threshold like this year) under regular conditions then I don't understand why they would pay inflated salaries.

Burgoyne would naturally command a high price tag no matter where he went but to justify potentially over paying him 150k - 200k (based on the figures tossed up in this discussion) because we have extra cap space is madness unless there are regulations I am unaware of - our club isn't that inept surely.

I believe Burgoyne is on $450,00 at the moment & hes after about $50,000 more a year because of the higher cost of living in Melb compared to Adel.Its not true that he said he would want $700,000 just to go to Melb because he would have to do more work etc.He has said that he will make his mind up by the end of this week about who it will be.He said he knows Hawks have less room in theyre cap than Melb & Ess so he would go there for $50,000 less to fit under the cap if thats the club he chooses.He dosnt want to hold Melb to ransom he was looking at each clubs financial position.Looks like at this stage though its more between Melb & the Hawks ahead of Ess from what he has said

[Ryan Dee 140]

Again, why?

Why would the club inflate player contracts instead of taking them on their merit (paying as "normal" as you put it)? You seem to have a grasp of the numbers which is fine, I don't know the rules that govern how a club goes about it's contracts but unless the club is forced to pay a certain proportion (not maximum threshold like this year) under regular conditions then I don't understand why they would pay inflated salaries.

Burgoyne would naturally command a high price tag no matter where he went but to justify potentially over paying him 150k - 200k (based on the figures tossed up in this discussion) because we have extra cap space is madness unless there are regulations I am unaware of - our club isn't that inept surely.

Minimum salary cap is 92.5% of the maximum.

RSPCA, I mean RPFC is just guessing what the club will do. I don't think they will over pay the younger players and if they do then they will be made to earn it in one way or another.

Edited September 20, 2009 by Mr Morton

[1858 239]

I believe Burgoyne is on $450,00 at the moment & hes after about $50,000 more a year because of the higher cost of living in Melb compared to Adel.Its not true that he said he would want $700,000 just to go to Melb because he would have to do more work etc.

Sounds about right going by what Port supporters say on BF (not that you would go by BF for your sources). I couldn't imagine him asking for that sort of money simply because he would have to work harder. Having said that there is nothing stopping him from asking for it simply because we could pay it though - if he definitely hasn't then I think 500k ballpark is not unreasonable for us to go with.

He has said that he will make his mind up by the end of this week about who it will be.He said he knows Hawks have less room in theyre cap than Melb & Ess so he would go there for $50,000 less to fit under the cap if thats the club he chooses.He dosnt want to hold Melb to ransom he was looking at each clubs financial position.Looks like at this stage though its more between Melb & the Hawks ahead of Ess from what he has said

Interesting, so it may come down to how much he wants to look after Port.

[Ryan Dee 140]

Can you bring up those stats or at least show me were to look for them please?

The third paragraph sounds a lot like Davey. Don't you want another Davey in the side.

Burgoyne's best is match winning worth chasing him just for that and before everyone writes not for that much does anyone think that we will go anywhere when everyone seems to be more worried about our finances usually you have to spend money to make money I think that he would be a worthwhile investment.

BTW who would be a better player than Burgoyne at Port, Essendon and us I can't think of one.

Value and how good he is are two different things. I think most people can agree he is a good player but for the price that he comes it's just not worth it.

Kane Cornes, Watson, Davey and Sylvia will produce a better season then SB. You can Add Fletcher and Lloyd, but not for long.

Edited September 20, 2009 by Mr Morton

[DemonDan... 77]

Can you bring up those stats or at least show me were to look for them please?

The third paragraph sounds a lot like Davey. Don't you want another Davey in the side.

Burgoyne's best is match winning worth chasing him just for that and before everyone writes not for that much does anyone think that we will go anywhere when everyone seems to be more worried about our finances usually you have to spend money to make money I think that he would be a worthwhile investment.

BTW who would be a better player than Burgoyne at Port, Essendon and us I can't think of one.

I just googled something like SB career stats 2009 and the same for Davey..

then had a look at Burgoynes stats to compare with Daveys stats in his 1st year, 2009, playing in midfield, (Burgoynes position)

Whos better.. its all opinion but,

Id say: Davey and slyvia (jurrah & bate this year too) are better.. Bruce and Green are on a par with SB

Id say: Watson (good call MM) and Ryder - his season was awesome

Id say: Cane Cornes, Pearce, Cassisi.. oh and der- Dan Motlop the freak

If you ask me that question, but only referring to SBs last 2 years, i could add another prob half-dozen names to each of the above lists..

BTW- as i mentioned earlier, its a 10 page thread so happy to repeat,

I wanted him from the start.. (although certainly not at 700k+ a season, he's not a star.. yet?)

but after all the shiftiness and dollar-chasing, i question having that sort of a character at my club.

Still if we end up with him on our terms, our price.. then.. as long as it benefits MFC..

oh, RPFC - if were struggling to meet the min salary cap spending requirements,

give it to Davey, Green, Bruce and J-Mac who have bravely waded thru the faecal mess that has been the MFC for the last few years.

Edited September 20, 2009 by DemonDan...

[Carlos Danger 380]

I don't think getting fixated on the price-tag is very constructive. If no deal is made with the Hawks and Bombers and he slips into the PSD, I don't think the recruiting staff will jump at the bit and grab him regardless of price. They have a decision to make and that is one of the things they have to think about it, I'm willing to back whatever they decide. He would be a great pick-up and bring us a lot closer to being a "right now" team if we were to get him in the PSD and on the flip-side I'm not going to be distraught over not getting him.

[rpfc 27,646]

oh, RPFC - if were struggling to meet the min salary cap spending requirements,

give it to Davey, Green, Bruce and J-Mac who have bravely waded thru the faecal mess that has been the MFC for the last few years.

Yes that is one way to do it. Bruce is on $500+, Green $400+, JMac would be looking at $250k-300k at a guess, and Davey's contract is being negotiated right now.

But there is still a ways to go to reach the $7.53m minimum that we have to pay.

Chris Connolly has already said that we are frontloading contracts. For instance, if Morton is getting $500k over 2 years they might pay him $300k in 2010 and $200k in 2011. Those numbers have no source, they may be well off. It is just an example to help people wrap their heads around what I am saying.

But the fact remains that our youth and our lack of stars means that our kids will be payed more than their counterparts at other clubs. This is not a problem at the moment.

It only becomes a problem when these inflated salaries are renegotiated when we are good in a few years time and we have to pay even more over-the-odds salaries.

I am having trouble figuring out how this is that difficult to understand.

And it is not the overriding reason why I would like to pursue Burgoyne, merely an added bonus in my eyes.

[e25 5]

Yes that is one way to do it. Bruce is on $500+, Green $400+, JMac would be looking at $250k-300k at a guess, and Davey's contract is being negotiated right now.

But there is still a ways to go to reach the $7.53m minimum that we have to pay.

Chris Connolly has already said that we are frontloading contracts. For instance, if Morton is getting $500k over 2 years they might pay him $300k in 2010 and $200k in 2011. Those numbers have no source, they may be well off. It is just an example to help people wrap their heads around what I am saying.

But the fact remains that our youth and our lack of stars means that our kids will be payed more than their counterparts at other clubs. This is not a problem at the moment.

It only becomes a problem when these inflated salaries are renegotiated when we are good in a few years time and we have to pay even more over-the-odds salaries.

I am having trouble figuring out how this is that difficult to understand.

And it is not the overriding reason why I would like to pursue Burgoyne, merely an added bonus in my eyes.

Surely J-Mac would have to be on more? Twice All-Australian and the captain of the club...

[rpfc 27,646]

Surely J-Mac would have to be on more? Twice All-Australian and the captain of the club...

Possibly, although I just recalled the fact that he is on the VL, so half is wage is not included. So it would actually be less.

Also, Bruce will be on the VL in place of Robbo so half his wage doesn't go under the cap.

Makes it even more difficult to get to the $7.53m.

[Redleg 38,093]

On One Week at a Time tonight Walls just said that Burgoyne was not worth half the $700k he was seeking. Interesting.

[e25 5]

On One Week at a Time tonight Walls just said that Burgoyne was not worth half the $700k he was seeking. Interesting.

Yeah, I heard that. He then said he's not even worth half, which shocked me.

Each to their own.

[1858 239]

Yes that is one way to do it. Bruce is on $500+, Green $400+, JMac would be looking at $250k-300k at a guess, and Davey's contract is being negotiated right now.

But there is still a ways to go to reach the $7.53m minimum that we have to pay.

Chris Connolly has already said that we are frontloading contracts. For instance, if Morton is getting $500k over 2 years they might pay him $300k in 2010 and $200k in 2011. Those numbers have no source, they may be well off. It is just an example to help people wrap their heads around what I am saying.

But the fact remains that our youth and our lack of stars means that our kids will be payed more than their counterparts at other clubs. This is not a problem at the moment.

It only becomes a problem when these inflated salaries are renegotiated when we are good in a few years time and we have to pay even more over-the-odds salaries.

I am having trouble figuring out how this is that difficult to understand.

And it is not the overriding reason why I would like to pursue Burgoyne, merely an added bonus in my eyes.

You seem on the money with all the details of contracts and figures so I should have perhaps paid more respect to your pov mate. I wasn't sure whether the 92.5% minimum specified by the AFL this year on us was the actual floor.

Having said that

Salary Cap: A$7,693,750

Salary Floor: A$7,116,718.75 (92.5%)

So we are apparently paying 85% of the salary cap in real terms. From this (in very simple terms) we may have a 7.5% or greater shortfall in the future based on the aggregate of existing contracts and value of expiring contracts.

7.5% of the total salary cap is roughly 580k.

Robbo was on the veterans list but is set to be replaced so there is a shortfall as you say as well as other retirees.

Most uncontracted players are likely to go on a higher salary through natural progression of market value (not overpaying) some of which I would expect to be significant. From the sounds of it you have a pretty good idea of who comes out of contract and the details of existing players.

If Burgoyne came to MFC he could reasonably ask for 500/550k per year. Factor this in.

My point is not about getting SB but getting him at possibly 200k per year over the odds (the principle anyway). Surely we have enough senior players and players in general coming out of contract who will get a normal pay increase based on their market value not to mention other trade options that we can use cap space for (at their market value I might add). I just find the concept of having to pay 10 kids over the odds a little too simplified given the circumstances of what the club may do to work around this.

Maybe the black hole is bigger than what I give credit to and you probably understand that aspect better than I do but I still can't see it as a justification to pay over the odds for SB to the tune of 200k per year. Anyway I respect your insight you obviously know a lot about this stuff.

1858

[Ryan Dee 140]

On One Week at a Time tonight Walls just said that Burgoyne was not worth half the $700k he was seeking. Interesting.

Walls says some interesting things at times, but i'm not surprised a so called 'expert' has realised 700k is just stupid money.

[Einstein 1]

Footy Classified tonight.

Hutchie believes Burgoyne will choose Hawthorn, with Essendon in with a definite chance. Says it is unlikely to be Melbourne. If there is some truth to it, its not really surprising.

Who knows. I guess we'll find out Monday.

[mauriesy 6,860]

Footy Classified tonight.

Hutchie believes Burgoyne will choose Hawthorn, with Essendon in with a definite chance. Says it is unlikely to be Melbourne. If there is some truth to it, its not really surprising.

Some of Hutchinson's so-called "newsbreaking" ability is just speculation coming true that makes him look good. Like his 'bad call' in the same show that Melbourne will take two midfielders at #1 and #2.

No-one in the game holds his cards more closely to his chest than Barry Prendergast, and Hutchy just really wouldn't know. Probably been reading all the speculation here.

[Ryan Dee 140]

Footy Classified tonight.

Hutchie believes Burgoyne will choose Hawthorn, with Essendon in with a definite chance. Says it is unlikely to be Melbourne. If there is some truth to it, its not really surprising.

Who knows. I guess we'll find out Monday.

He said Hawthorn are leading the race followed by Essendon. He didn't even say Melbourne are unlikely, all he said is Melbourne are the third team. Nothing more then we already know.

[Einstein 1]

He said Hawthorn are leading the race followed by Essendon. He didn't even say Melbourne are unlikely, all he said is Melbourne are the third team. Nothing more then we already know.

Thought he said to Lyon that it was doubtful for Melbourne.

Either way, like you say, its nothing we dont already know. Just Hutchie speculating.

[Bruce Almighty 0]

He said Hawthorn are leading the race followed by Essendon. He didn't even say Melbourne are unlikely, all he said is Melbourne are the third team. Nothing more then we already know.

How would hutchy know that hawthorn are leading the race, if he knew that then burgoyne would of already have made a decision, and if he knew that burgoyne had made a decision he would be able to say that burgoyne has definetly said he wants to be traded to hawthorn, hutchy is full of [censored], he has said that melbourne was leading the race for judd and then collingwood was leading the race for judd and then that kerr was going to ask to be traded, the guy is just guessing half the time and on this occassion he has a 33.3% chance of being correct.

How can you say that 1 of the 3 clubs is leading the race???????????????????????????????????

[Bruce Almighty 0]

i would like to see all the things that hutchy has said over the years and actually see how many of them are correct

[mauriesy 6,860]

i would like to see all the things that hutchy has said over the years and actually see how many of them are correct

Hutchy's predictions are like bets. You only hear of those that won.

[Ryan Dee 140]

It's just his opinion at the end of the day, you can believe it or not. It's an educated guess. I will just wait and see tomorrow what the real club will be.

[e25 5]

It's just his opinion at the end of the day, you can believe it or not. It's an educated guess. I will just wait and see tomorrow what the real club will be.

I'd hardly call it 'educated'...

[Einstein 1]

Hutchy's predictions are like bets. You only hear of those that won.

Thats about right. Somebody on the net should actually keep a running total.

I'll be keeping an eye on Cameron Schwabs Twitter page tomorrow. Thats all I know.

[Ryan Dee 140]

I'd hardly call it 'educated'...

Good line E

He would have a higher insight into it then most, so it would be an educated guess.

A lot of crap does come out of his mouth though. Carro is the only decent panel member.