John Butcher

[jacey 333]

if we want to get rid of pick 3 then I am happy to trade it direct for dangerfield. both parties win, adelaide get trengrove and we get a victoria gun who is home sick.

I think that's a win win for both parties too. Dangerfield is going to be a stud. Trengove looks as good as any 18 can. Definitely happy with either one.

But I think Trengove will be off the board by then as we probably would get Pick 1 and 4.

[Hannabal 4]

But I think Trengove will be off the board by then as we probably would get Pick 1 and 4.

We won't be getting 1 and 4. If we get pick 1 it will be 1 and 3. In your scenario we finish above West Coast and if we do we won't be getting any PP. To get 1 and 4 we'll need to win only one more plus bridge the 14% gap that presently exists between us and them - WC 86% Melb 72%.

That's not going to happen.

[Rod Grinter Riot Squad 5,654]

We won't be getting 1 and 4. If we get pick 1 it will be 1 and 3. In your scenario we finish above West Coast and if we do we won't be getting any PP. To get 1 and 4 we'll need to win only one more plus bridge the 14% gap that presently exists between us and them - WC 86% Melb 72%.

That's not going to happen.

Think you'll find we could get 1 and 4 if Freo finish last, then us then West Coke, with us and WC getting PP's.

PP1 Demons

PP2 WC

1 Freo

2. Demons

3. WC

[jacey 333]

^ what he said and IMO the most likley scenario. We beat Freo, we will jump them in percentage to 15th.

Edited July 27, 2009 by jacey

[H_T 3,043]

^ what he said and IMO the most likley scenario. We beat Freo, we will jump them in percentage to 15th.

Speculation at this stage. With 5 rounds there are lots of options. West Coast still to play Essendon, Nth Melb and Richmond at Subi.

We also have St.Kilda last round if you're thinking percentage.

[Guest oldman emubitter]

just my personal opinion, but if butcher's anything like his old man i wouldn't touch him with a 40 foot barge pole

[Hannabal 4]

Think you'll find we could get 1 and 4 if Freo finish last, then us then West Coke, with us and WC getting PP's.

PP1 Demons

PP2 WC

1 Freo

2. Demons

3. WC

True. How could I forget about West Coasts pp ? They won't win another game.

[JACKATTACK 17]

just my personal opinion, but if butcher's anything like his old man i wouldn't touch him with a 40 foot barge pole

I don't know his dad, but I have picked up on a few "character" issues with John. Very early days yet but this combined with a tendancy to be injured are very worrying. Still I think in terms of leadership within the club we can afford to take on a young player with an ego, just not too many.

Can you elaborate on Butcher senior?

[Guest oldman emubitter]

I don't know his dad, but I have picked up on a few "character" issues with John. Very early days yet but this combined with a tendancy to be injured are very worrying. Still I think in terms of leadership within the club we can afford to take on a young player with an ego, just not too many.

Can you elaborate on Butcher senior?

went to high school with him. like i said, just my personal opinion and i have my bias' but there's plenty around who have a similar opinion of the bloke.

[Guest oldman emubitter]

sorry didn't answer the question.

big ego for sure; has a very high opinion of himself, arrogant, ignorant.

not a very smart individual

[old55 23,349]

I understand the need for a quality midfield, and everyone is beating their drum about it, but Scully aside, Im not sure if this years draft presents another stand out, highly certain, elite mid.

From prior year drafts, how many supporters would be satisfied if the Dees wound up with a Zieble or a Palmer type mid with pick 3. Both were very highly touted mids, but not the elite calibre players that MFC supporters are attempting to bank on with pick 3. I believe that Daniel Rich is the only virtually certain "elite" mid to come out of the draft in the last three years.

So I propose we select Butcher at pick 3 with the intention of either keeping him (as KPF can usually only be obtained in the early picks of the draft) or put him on the trade table for sides like NM, Ess and Syd who will soon be kicking themselves to have a KPF to repair the abyss left in the forward line after the Loyds and O'Loughlin's retire from the game.

Strong candidate for worst OP ever - and against some super competition too.

[Strawbsodwyer 0]

forget the butch too many issues, a gun mid is what we need, trengrove should be hot on the radar if he is gone lets go after cunnington or rohan. Hopefully a good KPP will fall to 18.

[e25 5]

Strong candidate for worst OP ever - and against some super competition too.

No, I reckon it has some merit.

Instead of just trading the pick (which would be pure genius in & of itself) we should draft a KPP prospect in a weak draft who has lots of question marks, hold onto him for a year so all the other teams can see that he was a mistake, then hope to buggery that we can trade him off for an elite player.

I wish I had've come up with the plan myself.

[Adam The God 30,109]

Hi all, rookie poster here (well almost, don't hammer me too much). Just thought I'd share this bi of info on this subject.

I actually saw Butcher play today in Morwell, and was mighty impressed. He finished with 6 goals, about 3-4 goal assists, lead and provided a target for nearly every one of Powers forward 50 entries, took a few contested marks and even slotted a couple from the boundry, about 40-50m out. He tried all day.

What impressed me most about his game apart from the obvious stated above was his pace, his defensive pressure (would take off to attempt tackles and physically impose himself) and his ability to bring others into the game. When taking a mark on one of his many leads he would immediatly scan the forward line to see if there was a teammate in a better postion. If it was on, he generally hit them lace out (by hand or foot), if not he would set in to his routine and take the set shot (he really kicks through the ball, gives them a lot of height).

I had only seen him live once previous to today at the Dome in the champs when he was obviously carrying an injury, but today my fears re attitude, skill and ability were put to ease. This kid can play. While I believe in the best available when it comes to the draft (in particular 2 mids if we secure a PP), I have no doubt that he deserves to be spoken of in the sam breath as the Scully, Trengove and Morabito's of this world.

I must also admit that I did have a moment when I did think that a forward line of HF: Sylvia, Watts, Jurrah & F: Wonaeamirri, Butcher, Bate/Jetta could be a particularly potent combination in years to come.

.... Just a bit of food for thought.

Thanks for your thoughts, Adam. I've thought all along that we should take Trengove with pick 2, should we get it, but I know that Bailey and co. have already stated they want another KPP and a midfielder, so whilst many of us hope they go with another midfielder, what you will probably find is John Butcher in Melbourne colours. Btw, it's not a bad name that.

Edited July 27, 2009 by AdamFarr

[Mousey 47]

Whats everyones current thoughts on this man?

I know Scully is basically wearing a red and blue guernsey already but the second pick is i think where a lot of interest and debating is going to come in.

Recently i have thought a duo draft of Scully and Trengrove would be a great get for the demons but still not sure.

Last year , John Butcher was named up there with Watts as being the dream duo for our side. I know now having Jurrah is very exciting and probably the logical reason for a lot of people going "off" Butcher.

A possible forward line without Butcher-

Bate Watts Maric/Davey/Sylvia

Wonna Stef Martin Jurrah

with Butcher-

Bate Watts Maric/Davey/Sylvia

Wonna Butcher Jurrah

Butch has from all reports been performing well in the TAC.

Is it just me or when i think and watch footage of Butcher i think of a possible likeliness to crow Kurt Tippet?

anyway whats everyones else ideas?

Draft Camp/ Combine will be very interesting this year.

[beelzebub 23,313]

there isnt much point having a forward line without a delivery system. we need quality midfielders who put teh footy where it needs to be.. In the arms of forwards on a lead.

No point getting Butcher if you dont intend to keep him. Better to pick players who will give 10 years etc for the red and Blue. This isnt a throw away draft year.

[Mousey 47]

But why wouldnt we intend to keep him if we draft him???

I know what your saying about the mids but look at the prospects we already have for the mid-

Grimes, Morton, Moloney, Jones, Brock, Sylvia, Blease, Strauss, Buckley, Bennell, Jetta, Davey, Scully..

Dont you think we have a NUMBER of "possible" and yes possible is the key word midfielders?

All im saying is a draft of Scully and Butcher would be taking 2 of the three best prospects in the draft but also addressing needs also?

Even with pick 17 we could draft a decent midfielder with...

not sure how i feel about it...im just trying to get my head around it all. Just dont think its set in stone that we should be getting Trengrove along with Scully...

but maybe we should ...

lol i dont know...im confused...all i know is that we are getting Scully and that makes me a very happy man

[H_T 3,043]

I think if we didn't have Liam Jurrah, there would be a large groundswell of support for Butcher to be drafted. Because of Liam Jurrah's presence and sheer excitement he brings to the forward line, it has clouded the need for a KPF and that is why in recent months we have seen the push for two elite mids.

All I want is the best 2 available players. We know Scully is one of them. Bailey had stated early on in the season if he had a wish it would be a midfielder and KPF. I just wonder if this view has changed at all?

[beelzebub 23,313]

We arent going to be chalenging next year. I think we can spend another year developing someone within our minst. We do need a more efecient midfiled right now though and this would aid the development of a forward.. Im stil lleaning toward two midfielders..Scully + "x" Butcher might be a nice pick up...but not a desperately needed one at the moment..for mine.

[Roost It 1,434]

We arent going to be chalenging next year. I think we can spend another year developing someone within our minst. We do need a more efecient midfiled right now though and this would aid the development of a forward.. Im stil lleaning toward two midfielders..Scully + "x" Butcher might be a nice pick up...but not a desperately needed one at the moment..for mine.

I think we'll be seeing Butcher in Red and Blue next year

[Jarka 767]

I think we'll be seeing Butcher in Red and Blue next year

It would be a big call to pass on Trengove, especially considering his recent performances in the SANFL.

He's been going so well that if a non-Vic team at the 1st pick then I'm not so sure that Scully would be an obvious choice. Butcher would be nice but we should still go with the two best kids available

[e25 5]

Last year , John Butcher was named up there with Watts as being the dream duo for our side. I know now having Jurrah is very exciting and probably the logical reason for a lot of people going "off" Butcher.

Personally, Liam Jurrah has nothing to do with me not wanting Butcher.

In my thinking, last year John Butcher looked great and was a popular nomination for the top 2 picks in 2009 according to the general football public, who tend to be sheep in these matters.

My worry is that he is a kid a lot taller than the other kids his age, with some half-decent skill and he manages to dominate in the TAC cup competition, but it won't necessarily translate to the next level.

He got on everyone's radar by kicking bags of goals, and then his name spread like wildfire, but I don't think there's enough substance behind it all.

I'm sure he'll be a good player, but i don't see him justifying pick 2. I mean, look what leading the goal-kicking did for Tom Rockliff last year.

For me, he really needs to show he has a great running capacity to be considered elite - in my eyes he has not done this.

All the gun forwards do this - Riewoldt, Pavlich, Brown, Richardson. Tippet even - he is a ruckman cum forward. Fevola might not but has anyone noticed he is at his best when up the field chasing and harrassing, covering a lot of ground?

Trengove on the other hand has been proving himself against men lately, has performed ridiculously well in the nationals where it really matters and there has been a lot more impressive footage of him floating around.

Butcher may have had injuries, but if he didn't the best-case scenario for him is that he performed as well as Trengove did.

I'd back Trengove on form, and for that matter I'd have to take Morabito over Butcher too.

[1858 285]

At this early stage I am undecided. I see equal merit in either another good mid in Trengove or a great KPP in Butcher. It will come down to the club's evaluation of what/who we can get with pick 18 also I should think. State of origin is not considered such a big factor these days or so it seems but if it came down to being a 50/50 then I would opt for the local. With regards to Butcher, I don't think we should consider Jurrah a factor, he's been fantastic but I think we should still treat him as an xfactor player for the time being. Another tallented tall pillar is always handy. Imagine having twin towers and then Jurrah on top - you need depth up forward just like anywhere else. As far as Trengove goes, I beleive he is around the 190 cm height which could make him a great marking and running target in the corridore. Tough choices ahead...

As completely stupid as this sounds, the biggest factor to not picking someone like Butcher is that he could slide to another Vic club like the Tigers who would rightly think all of their Christmasses had come at once. If Richmond got Butcher it would sicken me lol. On the other hand a mid like Trengove may go earlier if we didn't pick him. Worrying about other teams is hardly a criterea for chosing draft picks but jeez it would [censored] me if Richmond cashed in on Butcher.

[H_T 3,043]

As completely stupid as this sounds, the biggest factor to not picking someone like Butcher is that he could slide to another Vic club like the Tigers who would rightly think all of their Christmasses had come at once. If Richmond got Butcher it would sicken me lol. On the other hand a mid like Trengove may go earlier if we didn't pick him. Worrying about other teams is hardly a criterea for chosing draft picks but jeez it would [censored] me if Richmond cashed in on Butcher.

I guess you really despise Richmond.

I love them. They make me so happy by finishing 9th most years. :D

I agree that hard decisions will need to be made. Don't forget the PSD#1 might come into play/decision making regarding the KPF scenario. We might get 2 mids with the first two picks, we might not. Decions, Decisions....

[e25 5]

Yeah, Vickery would've been very handy last year too, but you can't have every player in the draft.

Just take the best on offer.