Jack Watts

[jazza 1,323]

How can you say he's developing nicely if he hasn't laid a tackle, put his body on the line or chased hard since he's come to the club. Dean Kent developed nicely as a flanker this year. Watts wasted another year shuffling between positions because he either can't or refuses to play physical football.

well the longer he doesn't put on a tackle, pushes him towards superstardem when he does start to lay tackles,wont it be good when he does it consistently

as for putting in,my take is that most players complain of finding it hard to train and maintain enthusiasm after 27 yo,but jacky boy has got this covered by his excellently timed build up

its all been worth it if roo"s signs on

[Maldonboy38 6,390]

Trying to understand Watts' mental application in a game is confusing but I find it stems from his basketball excellence.

The main reason he does not chuck himself at the ball (in the air or on the ground) is because he makes the choice of keeping his feet in every contest, even if that contest demands that he fling himself at it. The same principle exists in soccer, where you rarely fly in with a bold tackle. You sit 1 - 2 metres away and keep the opposition player from being able to attack where they want to. Jack often appears to be controlling a space, or hanging back to defend a space, but rarely chucking himself in to get the ball. This surely can be taught.

Also, his brilliance in the 2008 under age championship where he caught the eye of all the recruiters were - this is fair dinkum - his pack marking and goal kicking. Because the defensive pressure is underage footy is poor, he was able to run and leap over packs without physical pressure being a hindrance. Neither Bailey nor Neeld have been able to help bridge the huge physical gap and he still plays like an U18 footballer.

His tackling really is woeful - but I firmly believe this can be taught. Give him a KPI of at least 4 tackles (that stick) a game and see if this changes his understanding of physical contact and going hard for the ball.

It is his pack marking / contested marking that is the main worry. Out on a lead no problems. But jostling and pushing off, blocking for others, steady core strength all seem to evade him constantly so he goes back to being 1 -2 metres off every contest waiting to respond to a play rather than making the play.

Having said all that, I am still in the 50/50 mindset with him regarding trade or not.

One thing I will say. When he gets the ball in his hands his decision making and skills are sublime. Best kick at MFC since Trav Johnston. Just wish he would go and get it more often and make the play.

[DeeZee 7,363]

How can you say he's developing nicely if he hasn't laid a tackle, put his body on the line or chased hard since he's come to the club. Dean Kent developed nicely as a flanker this year. Watts wasted another year shuffling between positions because he either can't or refuses to play physical football.

Ive seen him lay tackles,ive seen him compete hard...he will only get better, tougher and more competitive as he matures.

He is also the most skillfull player at our club. Some players just look laconic, because they have great awareness and plenty of time.

If you reckon Dean Kent is a better player than Jack Watts ,then good luck to you .

I just cant wait till Jack is about 26 , 27 years old and he is leading our club , playing great finals footy, and you haters out there, will be squirming in your seats.

The taller players take a little more time, just look at Hawkins, Riewoldt etc..

[DeeSpencer 25,472]

Ive seen him lay tackles,ive seen him compete hard...he will only get better, tougher and more competitive as he matures.

He is also the most skillfull player at our club. Some players just look laconic, because they have great awareness and plenty of time.

If you reckon Dean Kent is a better player than Jack Watts ,then good luck to you .

I just cant wait till Jack is about 26 , 27 years old and he is leading our club , playing great finals footy, and you haters out there, will be squirming in your seats.

The taller players take a little more time, just look at Hawkins, Riewoldt etc..

Obviously you mean Jack Riewoldt because Nick was as star from day 1. Hawkins was a mile off physically and as such struggled, but I don't see why Watts should be. Looking at him he's around 90kg and should be playing to those strengths already. I don't expect him to be playing as a true key forward because he doesn't have the body for it yet and I don't think he ever will.

I've got no problem with what he does with the ball. I actually use to love watching Trav Johnstone lope around at half speed before delivering a lace out pass and the same for guys like Dal Santo or Pendlebury who have that vision and skill that make them look like they are playing a different game to everyone else. It's Watts' work rate to win the ball or win the ball back that is a mile off and hasn't improved whatever position he's been trialled in.

I believe he's been lucky to escape most major injuries and to have decent preseasons. So why hasn't he developed the work rate to succeed. He's been on the list for 5 years now. That's 2 years more than Tom McDonald who will run all day at CHB and much longer than Toumpas and Kent who both came in under done and you can't say that Watts was head and shoulders above those 2 on output.

[Fitz Fitzpatrick 886]

hes talented but wasted as a 'flanker' in melbournes side. he doesnt really have a position in the side that i can see that is worth the money to keep him. he has currency based purely on his 'potential'. id like to see him put up for trade. at least see if we could get a first or 2nd rd pick for him. id much rather a dunstan or a sheed type than pay watts big money to float around on the wing.

hes not physical, goes missing alot, is a poor contested mark and justt doesnt have a strong work ethic.

If theres a club out there thinking they can turn him in to something then now is the time to trade and find another decent midfielder.

we cant just play him on a flank for his career on big money.

[DeeZee 7,363]

Obviously you mean Jack Riewoldt because Nick was as star from day 1. Hawkins was a mile off physically and as such struggled, but I don't see why Watts should be. Looking at him he's around 90kg and should be playing to those strengths already. I don't expect him to be playing as a true key forward because he doesn't have the body for it yet and I don't think he ever will.

I've got no problem with what he does with the ball. I actually use to love watching Trav Johnstone lope around at half speed before delivering a lace out pass and the same for guys like Dal Santo or Pendlebury who have that vision and skill that make them look like they are playing a different game to everyone else. It's Watts' work rate to win the ball or win the ball back that is a mile off and hasn't improved whatever position he's been trialled in.

I believe he's been lucky to escape most major injuries and to have decent preseasons. So why hasn't he developed the work rate to succeed. He's been on the list for 5 years now. That's 2 years more than Tom McDonald who will run all day at CHB and much longer than Toumpas and Kent who both came in under done and you can't say that Watts was head and shoulders above those 2 on output.

Bet he finishes above those you mentioned in the best and fairest.

[dee-luded 2,959]

If hes a flanker then he is developing nicely into a very good one.

If he kicks three or four goals from the flank he is more than doing his job.

he's using some parts of his game,,, but he's not key position, not even close, at this stage. and he's Not a key player, Yet...

he's just using his most natural assets, the easiest thing to do in a tough sport. but he's nowhere near rounded as a footballer, & is headed the way of other past talents we've recruited TJ, TS, JG, et al.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Trying to understand Watts' mental application in a game is confusing but I find it stems from his basketball excellence.

The main reason he does not chuck himself at the ball (in the air or on the ground) is because he makes the choice of keeping his feet in every contest, even if that contest demands that he fling himself at it. The same principle exists in soccer, where you rarely fly in with a bold tackle. You sit 1 - 2 metres away and keep the opposition player from being able to attack where they want to. Jack often appears to be controlling a space, or hanging back to defend a space, but rarely chucking himself in to get the ball. This surely can be taught.

Also, his brilliance in the 2008 under age championship where he caught the eye of all the recruiters were - this is fair dinkum - his pack marking and goal kicking. Because the defensive pressure is underage footy is poor, he was able to run and leap over packs without physical pressure being a hindrance. Neither Bailey nor Neeld have been able to help bridge the huge physical gap and he still plays like an U18 footballer.

His tackling really is woeful - but I firmly believe this can be taught. Give him a KPI of at least 4 tackles (that stick) a game and see if this changes his understanding of physical contact and going hard for the ball.

It is his pack marking / contested marking that is the main worry. Out on a lead no problems. But jostling and pushing off, blocking for others, steady core strength all seem to evade him constantly so he goes back to being 1 -2 metres off every contest waiting to respond to a play rather than making the play.

Having said all that, I am still in the 50/50 mindset with him regarding trade or not.

One thing I will say. When he gets the ball in his hands his decision making and skills are sublime. Best kick at MFC since Trav Johnston. Just wish he would go and get it more often and make the play.

yeah, he seems to be guarding the space intuitively moreso than moving in for a kill tackle.... & it looks like he isn't 'Footy intuitive' without the ball, but with the ball, he looks to burst thru physical pressure to find space which is good.

I think all the changing of coaches would have harmed his development, & rushing into footy before he was ready.

[DeeSpencer 25,472]

Bet he finishes above those you mentioned in the best and fairest.

Well he played a hell of a lot more games than Toumpas, who is his first year and I damn well hope by the time he's in his 5th year is way better than Watts. He might also get above Kent because he played some ok games, he had a real purple patch against Coll and StKilda in the middle of the year. But where Watts will finish in this years B+F is irrelevant. It's how he helps the team and in more games than not this year he's provided nothing. His game against the Kangaroos was a disgrace to name 1.

[dpositive 1,663]

Well I have been thinking about this for some time and have seen that there is a diversity of opinion on Jack so will add mine

I admire the courage of a kid with a diverse skill set accepting a number one ranking knowing the scrutiny this would place himself under

I admire the courage of a kid double and triple teamed, monstered by an opposition set on intimidation in his first match, with little support from teammates

I admire the courage of a kid surrounded by teammates without his heightened skills unable to use him to advantage

I admire the kid turning up week after week being thrown around by coaches wanting to cover deficiencies with one of the few skilled resources they had

I admire the courage of a player not throwing himself into situations that would result in injury

I admire the courage of a player not lasing out and being suspended

I admire every player who pulls on the demons jumper knowing they will receive little support from the umpires when they are shoved in the back or hit in the head

I admire the courage of jack watts in taking the time to consider his future career possibilities when he is about to enter the most critical stage of his career development

I hope the club get this right so that all Melbourne supporters can continue to admire his courage as he helps our team to some long overdue success

[rpfc 28,262]

Yeah, I don't really care. I have about 5 players at my footy club, the rest are assets to be retained and developed or bartered for other assets.

I believe we have mitigated the disaster that would be an entry to the ND and we can do as Roos pleases with regard to asset number 4.

[Hannibal 5,814]

Well I have been thinking about this for some time and have seen that there is a diversity of opinion on Jack so will add mine

I admire the courage of a kid with a diverse skill set accepting a number one ranking knowing the scrutiny this would place himself under

I admire the courage of a kid double and triple teamed, monstered by an opposition set on intimidation in his first match, with little support from teammates

I admire the courage of a kid surrounded by teammates without his heightened skills unable to use him to advantage

I admire the kid turning up week after week being thrown around by coaches wanting to cover deficiencies with one of the few skilled resources they had

I admire the courage of a player not throwing himself into situations that would result in injury

I admire the courage of a player not lasing out and being suspended

I admire every player who pulls on the demons jumper knowing they will receive little support from the umpires when they are shoved in the back or hit in the head

I admire the courage of jack watts in taking the time to consider his future career possibilities when he is about to enter the most critical stage of his career development

I hope the club get this right so that all Melbourne supporters can continue to admire his courage as he helps our team to some long overdue success

I admire the courage of someone to post such crap.

[Redleg 40,838]

IMO we have two players with sublime ball skills. Sorry one, the other one just retired.

While JW has deficiencies he has some attributes that few others do. He can actually kick a ball to a target. He will develop physically and under a new coach this 195cm, quick player with great skills could develop into a very good player for us.

Lets test our development and show some faith in the new FD to improve this bloke, he really could be anything.

Edited September 4, 2013 by Redleg

[binman 42,670]

IMO we have two players with sublime ball skills. Sorry one, the other one just retired.

While JW has deficiencies he has some attributes that few others do. He can actually kick a ball to a target. He will develop physically and under a new coach this 195cm, quick player with great skills could develop into a very good player for us.

Lets test our development and show some faith in the new FD to improve this bloke, he really could be anything.

Spot on Redleg. As i have said before win win trades are very rare. The most likely scenario in a trade would be a couple of b graders in return. He's at the crucial 80 game mark and it would be crazy to let him go if we can avoid it.

I accept he is nowhere near hard enough at it. But as you point out he he has great skills, i would say the best by far in terms of hitting targets by hand and foot. Obviously our major weakness is our midfield but a close second is our appalling kicking skills. It just crucifies a team to turn it over as frequently as we do. Makes no sense then to cut the best kick in the team.

Again as i have said before i like Watts as a high half forward/wing whose KPI is score assists (but who can also kick 20-30 goals a year himself).

Watts strikes me as someone who needs to know his coach has full confidence in him. Which is why i could see him instantly improving at another club as it would mean that by definition a coach has gone out, chased him and put their faith in him. If he stays i reckon Roos will show that sort of faith in him i would expect him to make a significant improvement in his application and intensity (which is his area of weakness).

Edited September 5, 2013 by binman

[pm24 451]

Well he played a hell of a lot more games than Toumpas, who is his first year and I damn well hope by the time he's in his 5th year is way better than Watts. He might also get above Kent because he played some ok games, he had a real purple patch against Coll and StKilda in the middle of the year. But where Watts will finish in this years B+F is irrelevant. It's how he helps the team and in more games than not this year he's provided nothing. His game against the Kangaroos was a disgrace to name 1.

Basically the entire team was a disgrace against the kangaroos, so why do you feel the need to single out Watts.

There seems to be this obsession with Watts having to be a gorilla marking forward who is dominating every game, despite the fact that other similar type forwards like Kennedy and Hendersen didn't come into their own until they were about 22/23 before they took that next step, but they would have had a better culture and development program to assist them in their development. Both were also top 5 picks, so maybe we should be comparing Watts to the Kennedy's and Henderson's of the world, and realise that tall players who come into the game with slender builds, take that little bit longer to have an impact, and a little bit longer to become consistent players.

[robbiefrom13 887]

I admire the courage of someone to post such crap.

you'd have the courage to explain your reasoning to Paul Roos, I suppose? Seems he doesn't see it your way...

[Hannibal 5,814]

There seems to be this obsession with Watts having to be a gorilla marking forward who is dominating every game,

No, I have an obsession with him competing. You know, putting his body on the line for the team.

I don't know anyone who ever thought he'd be a "gorilla", let alone now.

I look forward to seeing what Roos can do with him. It's his last hope. If he can't succeed and understand what is required in AFL footy under Roos, he never will. He most certainly doesn't now.

[Hannibal 5,814]

you'd have the courage to explain your reasoning to Paul Roos, I suppose? Seems he doesn't see it your way...

Of course he does. he's backing himself to get the best out of him.

FMDTSTCOH

[DeeZee 7,363]

No, I have an obsession with him competing. You know, putting his body on the line for the team.

I don't know anyone who ever thought he'd be a "gorilla", let alone now.

I look forward to seeing what Roos can do with him. It's his last hope. If he can't succeed and understand what is required in AFL footy under Roos, he never will. He most certainly doesn't now.

Last hope? Pmsl he is still a kid really.

[DeeZee 7,363]

Well he played a hell of a lot more games than Toumpas, who is his first year and I damn well hope by the time he's in his 5th year is way better than Watts. He might also get above Kent because he played some ok games, he had a real purple patch against Coll and StKilda in the middle of the year. But where Watts will finish in this years B+F is irrelevant. It's how he helps the team and in more games than not this year he's provided nothing. His game against the Kangaroos was a disgrace to name 1.

If he has provided nothing, then why is he named in the best players nearly every second week?

Thats not my opinion its the people in the club who obviously rate him and the footy scribes for all the major papers.

I suppose they are wrong too?

I really look forward to the partnership , he will make with Jesse Hogan, they will compliment each other, beautifully in our forward line.

Go Jacky boy!

[binman 42,670]

'.......and then there is former No.1 draft pick Jack Watts.

I was there the day Jack played his first game. I have never seen a fanfare like it and is it any wonder he has never lived up to that hype?

It was one of the biggest mistakes I have ever seen from a football club in handling a young football player.

Make no mistake, the Demons need to keep hold of Watts because he is incredibly talented and still could be a star.

He needs a coach that will find a position for him, play him in that position and teach him what it takes to be a genuine AFL player.'

Paul Roos

[DeeSpencer 25,472]

'.......and then there is former No.1 draft pick Jack Watts.

I was there the day Jack played his first game. I have never seen a fanfare like it and is it any wonder he has never lived up to that hype?

It was one of the biggest mistakes I have ever seen from a football club in handling a young football player.

Make no mistake, the Demons need to keep hold of Watts because he is incredibly talented and still could be a star.

He needs a coach that will find a position for him, play him in that position and teach him what it takes to be a genuine AFL player.'

Paul Roos

It's both the for and against in the one argument. The last line is particularly telling - he is not a genuine AFL player yet in the eyes of Roos. So people who keep pumping him up can you please understand that. Roos will determine based upon the skills and intent he sees from Watts what position will best suit him. I for one certainly don't think it will be as a contested marking key forward. It's much more likely to be as a ball user between the arcs or on a wing. Then Roos will take the time to teach him the skills needed for that position and I believe will finally do what no MFC coach has been gutsy enough to do with Watts and will give him an extended period in the reserves if that dictates or will give him an extended period in one position even if he's been beaten a lot of time. That's what we are getting from Roos, a guy who is stubborn and has the runs on the board and wont be undermined by the media or perception.

As for the debut can we all get over the aspect that he wasn't ready from a footballing perspective. He was extremely talented, our side sucked, he played decent VFL. He was well and truly due to come in to the team at some stage. It was the marketing campaign and external pressure that was the problem, not any Collingwood defenders bumping him around. Kevin Sheedy has debuted younger players on big occassions plenty of times, but he sets them up for it and doesn't pump the entire game around them and then he also protects them in the aftermath if things don't go so well.

[Machsy 2,858]

I don't want Watts to be a 70 goal season powerful gorilla.

I want him to be a hard running player, BOTH WAYS, who goes when it's his turn and isn't playing to avoid physical contact.

To date, he has consistently done the opposite.

[TheoX 1,222]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/watts-set-to-stay-at-melbourne-20130910-2tid8.html

The Age: 'Watts Set to Stay'

Edited September 10, 2013 by TheoX

[hardtack 10,514]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/watts-set-to-stay-at-melbourne-20130910-2tid8.html

Great news if accurate.