Yze and Robbo, handy forwards, skirted packs, didn't chase, still decent players. Just frustrating, just like Watts.

Gee I wouldn't mind a fast leading half forward who can bag 60 to 70 goals a year and a gifted half back/half forward/wing/midfielder who used to accumulate 30 odd possessions per game at his best. They both had their faults but they had talent in spades that I just don't see in this group.

P.S. Not Happy with the bullshyte advertising I keep seeing here. Seems there is no escape from this campaign!!

His ability to take a contested mark is about minus 5. There were times last week which he was in a great position to take a grab, but was just brushed aside. Whether there is also a lack of confidence in his play am unsure.

Would keep him if he wants to stay, but not on big money.

Gee I wouldn't mind a fast leading half forward who can bag 60 to 70 goals a year and a gifted half back/half forward/wing/midfielder who used to accumulate 30 odd possessions per game at his best. They both had their faults but they had talent in spades that I just don't see in this group.

P.S. Not Happy with the bullshyte advertising I keep seeing here. Seems there is no escape from this campaign!!

This is the problem hood, of Melbourne of the past 20 years, or more.

... plenty of talent, but even when we are a power, we keep on underachieving & falling just short,,, when the power clubs Win, with less talent, & better efforts & attitudes.

our lazy attitudes have been handed down & adopted, over & over again... this is a part of why melbourne has failed to nail a Flag since 1964.

This is the problem hood, of Melbourne of the past 20 years, or more.

... plenty of talent, but even when we are a power, we keep on underachieving & falling just short,,, when the power clubs Win, with less talent, & better efforts & attitudes.

our lazy attitudes have been handed down & adopted, over & over again... this is a part of why melbourne has failed to nail a Flag since 1964.

Do not disagree. But I look at the 90's and wonder how we did not snaffle a cup. We had the list, the talent but we struggled with injuries at the wrong time, example The Ox, our favourite, A Jackovich, Sean Charles, Glenn Lovett, Tingay and Lyon who had played his best football at 25! Yes we had bad luck when we needed some good luck but as I remember it we often set ourselves up for glory and then would lose a succession of games to put us back in the lower end of the finals contenders, never top two, from which we could have won. The common problem was and still is lack of on field leadership. It was then left to too few. We would lose Danny Hughes and the back line would fail or we would lose the Ox and the side would shutdown. Oh for a J Selwood or a Ronald Dale for that matter.

Gee I wouldn't mind a fast leading half forward who can bag 60 to 70 goals a year and a gifted half back/half forward/wing/midfielder who used to accumulate 30 odd possessions per game at his best. They both had their faults but they had talent in spades that I just don't see in this group.

P.S. Not Happy with the bullshyte advertising I keep seeing here. Seems there is no escape from this campaign!!

Hmmm it seems that the bullshyte election advertising has disappeared. Thank you to whoever. Glad to get back to the usual "singles living near you and just waiting for a call!"

Brian Loughnan can go and get st&ffed!!

I appreciate that it's not the conservative way, however how would you propose they can either toughen him up and/or remove his fear of getting hurt?

I think we'll try Roos' methods.

Yze and Robbo, handy forwards, skirted packs, didn't chase, still decent players. Just frustrating, just like Watts.

Also had a huge say in putting us into several finals series. Yze was a versatile, highy skilled player. Robbo kicked 428 goals in 228 games, won a fair few off his own boot. Watts has kicked 60 in 73. Don't see much validity in the comparisons though obviously hard due to the quality of the sides they've played in

The comparison was that both the players I mentioned were lazy at the best of times, but still contributed to the cause and were both outside players, Watts being an outside player and at imes lazy does need to gt better, but it doesn't mean he is completely useless.

I think Jack is the type of player who will rise with the tide (so to speak), as in when Melbourne are up and running he'll be a better player. The intro of Hogan and Clarke next year will lift the intensity of the forward line ( and provide JW with clear targets), the intro of a couple of seasoned mids will lift the intensity in the middle (where JW should play, i.e. on wing). Jack knows he has no more excuses and a rare opportunity to recast his reputation as a quality player under a well respected new coach in Roos...

Everything is in place for him to succeed and finally have some of those career defining and game winning moments we all know he is capable of.

Edited September 3, 201311 yr by PaulRB

Do not disagree. But I look at the 90's and wonder how we did not snaffle a cup. We had the list, the talent but we struggled with injuries at the wrong time, example The Ox, our favourite, A Jackovich, Sean Charles, Glenn Lovett, Tingay and Lyon who had played his best football at 25! Yes we had bad luck when we needed some good luck but as I remember it we often set ourselves up for glory and then would lose a succession of games to put us back in the lower end of the finals contenders, never top two, from which we could have won. The common problem was and still is lack of on field leadership. It was then left to too few. We would lose Danny Hughes and the back line would fail or we would lose the Ox and the side would shutdown. Oh for a J Selwood or a Ronald Dale for that matter.

this is the sort of thing the pulls the wool over our supporters eyes... looking great & playing fantastic flashy attacking footy, sometimes with enormously talented teams,,, yet still lose.

"how is it So", John

can only be that our opponents have better professionalism, play responsible pressure footy, & make the right intelligent decisions at the right time.... this is leadership, leadership on all lines being responsible for one anothers dreams.

....... they play as a Unit, where we play as a collective (of talented individuals),,,,,,,, look great, play exciting, but lose.

lets get the balance right, & Shift this sick, soft, front running culture out, & bring in a real community culture where people can prosper together.

Edited September 4, 201311 yr by dee-luded

Roos is far more reknown for cobbling together teams that have true grit and less of the flash.

Yes, Goodes is good ( to say the least ) Micky O was always a standout but these guys have the basic componentry in place as footballers. Watts has, talent, ability and a very very short highlights reel.

Hes going to need to grow some me thinks ! ( and I hope he does )

Assuming Roos is coach, I'm in favour of sticking with Watts. Roos' impact is going to be cultural and psychological, I think game-style will flow from these. I'd like to see Roos work with Watts on his deficiencies. If Roos was still coach of Sydney and Watts was looking for a trade there everyone would be saying "well that's an environment where he can finally realise his potential".

Edited September 4, 201311 yr by Fifty-5

Funny how some of the posters on here continually resort to bashing a talented young key position like Jack, when our midfield is the worst in the league, and probably the clubs history.

Funny how some of the posters on here continually resort to bashing a talented young key position like Jack, when our midfield is the worst in the league, and probably the clubs history.

They both have deficiencies and each have been rightly subject to scrutiny.

The 3rd midfield does not mitigate the deficiencies of other players including Watts.

Funny how some of the posters on here continually resort to bashing a talented young key position like Jack, when our midfield is the worst in the league, and probably the clubs history.

They both have deficiencies and each have been rightly subject to scrutiny.

The 3rd midfield does not mitigate the deficiencies of other players including Watts.

No, but you make a good point DeeZee.

The difference is you have a tangible to criticise where it is difficult to criticise the barren land that is our midfield.

Assuming Roos is coach, I'm in favour of sticking with Watts. Roos' impact is going to be cultural and psychological, I think game-style will flow from these. I'd like to see Roos work with Watts on his deficiencies. If Roos was still coach of Sydney and Watts was looking for a trade there everyone would be saying "well that's an environment where he can finally realise his potential".

Your last sentence made me realise I'm probably one of those, Fifty-5. I've been all for getting rid of JW since the middle of this year, and still think his lack of competitive physicality is shamefully obvious and hugely limiting. The one hope I now have, is that if THAT can be improved, then Roos is probably the man to facilitate it. JW's talent is just as obvious, so he's worth a bit more investment based on Roos feeling that he can work with him, and he's on record as thinking he should be retained, but personally I'd give him a 2 year contract at MOST. I'd say 1 year, but there's a bit too much of a threat in that, which could be crippling for any player.

Funny how some of the posters on here continually resort to bashing a talented young key position like Jack, when our midfield is the worst in the league, and probably the clubs history.

he is certainly Not key position deezee... atmo

he plays much smaller.. he plays as a flanker style/winger. too outside in his minds eye, IMO. I Know, he ventures into packs... but he is not free & easy with this, to allow him to be more effective.

I think Roos could work well with him, but most others I think would struggle to get him onside.

Green was soft. Shirked contests all the time, waited outside packs.

Has anyone considered that it was not Green, nor is it Watt's role to get in and under to get the ball out, but rather to receive the ball so that they can use their elite disposal skills to best benefit the team.

I don't get this obsession with Watts needing to go in and get every ball. Watch other key forwards and rucks etc, they don't go in after every single ball. There are plenty of examples of Cloke, Buddy, Roughead, all hovering around the outer of the packs waiting to receive the ball, rather than being the one digging it out.

I think in general, Watts' work rate has improved dramatically this year. I thought he was great against the dogs too. There was one passage in where he lead through the middle in the first quarter, when Tommy Mac had the ball coming out of the back half, and he had about 10 mtrs on his man. What happened next.....Tommy Mac didn't see him, so Watts then sprinted to the wing. Tommy Mac gave the ball to Chippa who kicked to Jones, who drew the free kick, Watts kept running, received the handball outside 50, and then delivered to Kent for the goal. Many are often quick to criticize Watts' work ethic, but he was on about a 70metre lead, from out of our forward line when Tommy didn't see him, he then ran probably another 50 metres, to get to a position to get the handball receive before delivering to Kent. He did not stop pushing to get into space, he kept working to be in position to receive the ball.

I've seen multiple examples of him working into space only to be ignored, and then working hard to get back for another lead. He has dominated players like Dale Morris on the lead, who couldn't keep up with him. That's his strength, and he plays to it. So we may want him to be a Jonathon Brown, but he's not that type of player. He is a leading forward with speed, more like a Josh Kennedy type.

Sometimes I wish people would focus on what improvements he has shown, rather than just lamenting how he isn't playing how they want him to play. If he's playing the role the coach has for him, then he is doing his job.

Gee I reckon that Jack would've wished he was not the No.1 pick.....All the expectations of supporters.....All the embarrassing Hoo Ha when he played his first game.....

Jarrad Grant (2007 draft) Western Bulldogs....was pick 5 in the draft before Jack.......Has not had the same scrutiny and is just now beginning to play some good games.....

I tried to check the similarities re height and weight but my season's guide seams to be missing the bulldogs players.....just saying these taller players will take some time,to gain confidence in their bodies to take on the stronger more powerful opponents.....Jack is still only 22 years of age....

My position on Watts is now very simple - if we get Roos and Roos says Watts is required. He is. I don't care how weak or uncommitted is is.

Edited September 4, 201311 yr by sue

Exactly. How much are we going to pay this guy? - and we want to tell him how to do it?!?

Gee I reckon that Jack would've wished he was not the No.1 pick.....All the expectations of supporters.....All the embarrassing Hoo Ha when he played his first game.....

Jarrad Grant (2007 draft) Western Bulldogs....was pick 5 in the draft before Jack.......Has not had the same scrutiny and is just now beginning to play some good games.....

I tried to check the similarities re height and weight but my season's guide seams to be missing the bulldogs players.....just saying these taller players will take some time,to gain confidence in their bodies to take on the stronger more powerful opponents.....Jack is still only 22 years of age....

anyone with some footy sense new Jack was not ready & didn't deserve his 1st game in a QB clash... it was fool hardy to do this for marketing ploys. possibly should not have played that year.

we just keep rushing our kids in to show them off.

... they should be 'men players' first, before getting their 1st game.

& its the same reasons we haven't developed our others.

this imo has a lot to do with our poor culture onfield, & the pandering that goes on off field.

Edited September 4, 201311 yr by dee-luded

My position on Watts is now very simple - if we get Roos and Roos says Watts is required. He is.

Funny you should say this. I reckon it would be exactly the same as Jack's position!

he is certainly Not key position deezee... atmo

he plays much smaller.. he plays as a flanker style/winger. too outside in his minds eye, IMO. I Know, he ventures into packs... but he is not free & easy with this, to allow him to be more effective.

I think Roos could work well with him, but most others I think would struggle to get him onside.

If hes a flanker then he is developing nicely into a very good one.

If he kicks three or four goals from the flank he is more than doing his job.

If hes a flanker then he is developing nicely into a very good one.

If he kicks three or four goals from the flank he is more than doing his job.

How can you say he's developing nicely if he hasn't laid a tackle, put his body on the line or chased hard since he's come to the club. Dean Kent developed nicely as a flanker this year. Watts wasted another year shuffling between positions because he either can't or refuses to play physical football.