The biggest turnover, surely

[Yencks 8]

Newton is contracted

pay him out and free up a spot for the last free draft

Dunn will hold his spot

atm, i don't rate him...he may prove me wrong but i think he is neither here nor there when it comes to any position he has been tried in...not a premiership player...

Valenti is a rookie listed player, Zomer hasn't played a game...

So what...you can still delist a rookie listed player...if the club is not prepared to give him his chance this year, he will never get and hence, we are better off trialing with another rookie...don't forget he is older than players like jones...

zomer is playing vfl reserves and we are better off getting anothe rookie this draft...

[Hannabal 4]

The value of Rivers was his ability to read the play, but teams rarely bomb it long into forward lines these days. Rivers isn't quick so he gets burned on a lead and just doesn't have the value he had a few years ago. The game has changed a massive amount since he won the RS.

I'm not saying delist him, but I'd certainly look at a trade and in fact advocated this last year. I've had no reason to change my mind. I reckon he'll be pushed out of the backline within two years.

[QueenC 74]

You are Joking aern't you! Improve the delivery from the Midfield & we will get a lot more out of these players who can both take a good Mark.

I just wish Miller would take half an "angry" pill before each game & legally throw his weight around more. His Mojo must return.

No, he isn't joking, unfortunately......

He is just rampantly anti certain players on our list, and has trouble showing any respect.

[LITTLE STINGA 1]

They don't think like Rivers does.

Remember how valuable Bizzell was when we were decent, I believe his value will rise immeasurably when we are a better team.

And don't tell me that he might not be a part of that better team, he is a member of the only consistently good aspect of our team - the backline.

lol He will be about 30 before we are any good. Bizzell played about 3 years longer than he should of cause of his reputation. Rivers has been crippled by injury he will never be the same again all he is doing is holding Martin back. Garland, Frawley, Warnock and Martin are all better than him we have to stop doing what we always do and keep on playing players when they have past it.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

The value of Rivers was his ability to read the play, but teams rarely bomb it long into forward lines these days. Rivers isn't quick so he gets burned a lead and just doesn't have the value he had a few years ago. The game has changed a massive amount since he won the RS.

I'm not saying delist him, but I'd certainly look at a trade and in fact advocated this last year. I've had no reason to change my mind. I reckon he'll be pushed out of the backline within two years.

Agree with that assessment. Although I doubt whether we would have got a decent trade for him last year with his medical disposition.

[LITTLE STINGA 1]

No, he isn't joking, unfortunately......

He is just rampantly anti certain players on our list, and has trouble showing any respect.

You know where we are on the ladder don't you? They don't deserve respect they have been the laughing stock of the AFL for 3 years. The experienced players has got off lightly cause everyone blames the kids which is a joke, once they take responsibility then maybe I will lay off them.

[LITTLE STINGA 1]

I actually think Bruce is in danger

It makes me very sad to see so many stalwarts fading, but even Bruce will be a fringe player by this time next year.

I hope so but he already is a fringe player the problem is we have at least another 15 playing every week. I make no apologies in bagging the experienced players cause they have been disgraceful and are the main reason we are in this mess.

[LITTLE STINGA 1]

You are really beginning to sound like a broken record, get over it.......

Not until they are gone.

[LITTLE STINGA 1]

?????

Please elaborate.

Being dropped.

[QueenC 74]

Not until they are gone.

Or you are, if you keep up with the abuse......

[Roost It 1,434]

Miller and Rivers still offer some value to the MFC. Make Miller the 3rd or 4th forward and he'd be pretty dangerous. As our key forward he's never going to make it. He gives his all and with some support he'll make a handy forward, if we keep him. As for Rivers. Surely we'll give him a year(2009) to find his feet, then a full preseason to get back up to speed. If he can remain injury free I'd say a few of you will be eating pie from your face, but hey what's new!

You can't blame Brockstar for having a thing against some of our players, we all do, and let's face it as a club we've carried some [censored] well past the Use By date. Wheatley, Whelan, Bruce, Johnson, Bell, Robertson all smell fishy to me.

[LITTLE STINGA 1]

I hear Miller is back this week and Rivers is a very good player.

So nah, we won't add them.

Very sobering those numbers, we are very inexperienced.

Firstly WOW Miller may have forced his way back into a strong Melbourne line up that will stop him from being traded at year's end.

Secondly keep on living in the past if you want.

Thirdly we are not inexperienced the Collingwood game showed that we still have a lot of old players we need to cull. It only looks bad cause Daniher left us with a team full of grandpa's.

[LITTLE STINGA 1]

Or you are, if you keep up with the abuse......

sook

[LITTLE STINGA 1]

Miller and Rivers still offer some value to the MFC. Make Miller the 3rd or 4th forward and he'd be pretty dangerous. As our key forward he's never going to make it. He gives his all and with some support he'll make a handy forward, if we keep him. As for Rivers. Surely we'll give him a year(2009) to find his feet, then a full preseason to get back up to speed. If he can remain injury free I'd say a few of you will be eating pie from your face, but hey what's new!

You can't blame Brockstar for having a thing against some of our players, we all do, and let's face it as a club we've carried some [censored] well past the Use By date. Wheatley, Whelan, Bruce, Johnson, Bell, Robertson all smell fishy to me.

The only Miller that could offer some value is the aggressive Miller. He doesn't show it anywhere near enough. The shirtfront he gave the Werribee player 2 weeks ago was awesome we need to see more of that from Miller. He needs to play a Rooke type role where if the opposition see Miller they know they are going to get hurt. The dangerous Miller doesn't exist cause he hasn't got a football brain and he can't kick.

With Rivers how do you see Melbourne's backline this year and the next couple of years? We have 5 key position players in the back half. Garland, Warnock, Frawley, Martin and Rivers, you clearly can't have 5 in the backline you should really only have 3. Whose not going to make it? Considering Rivers is older, slower and more injury prone than the rest it's clear who I don't want in and if he can't get a game why would we want him clogging up the list like Bizzell and Yze have done before him.

[DangerousDemon 3]

Has there been a bigger turnover of players in terms of games played over a 3 year period? Since Dean Bailey took over from Neale Daniher at the end of 2007 he has made/making some changes.

2007

Pickett (204)

Bizzell (165)

Johnstone (160)

Brown (146)

Ward (136)

Godfrey (105)

Ferguson (47)

Neville (0)

Total Games – 963

2008

Neitz (306)

Yze (271)

White (268)

Holland (191)

Carroll (71)

C.Johnson (31)

Bode (9)

Weetra (2)

Total Games - 1149

2009 – Potentially (and with the point of getting the total games lost to 3000 in 3 years. All games in brackets are a rough guess of what they’ll be at round 22 2009)

McDonald (235)

Robertson (230)

Whelan (150)

Wheatley (140)

Bell (65)

P.Johnson (60)

Buckley (21)

Total Games – 901

In 3 years we’ve lost roughly 3000 games of experience, to put that in some context, our list at the moment has 2307 games of experience, and that includes all of the 2009 class above, you’d imagine it will be below 2000 games at the end of this year.

This is the reason we are a long way off, all we can do is get games into our young blokes and hope to fast track them, we must all wait patiently in the interim.

Great post mate well done on highlighting our player turnover in the previous few years. I dont think Johnson will go though they like him as a backup ruckman.

[Cards13 9,117]

The value of Rivers was his ability to read the play, but teams rarely bomb it long into forward lines these days. Rivers isn't quick so he gets burned on a lead and just doesn't have the value he had a few years ago. The game has changed a massive amount since he won the RS.

I'm not saying delist him, but I'd certainly look at a trade and in fact advocated this last year. I've had no reason to change my mind. I reckon he'll be pushed out of the backline within two years.

I do love the J-Riv and his marking capabilites especially when running with the flight but I really noticed it for the first time against the Pies he was burned off on the lead from Cloke easily. I think with another off season injury free he has the chance to improve his pace again but at the mintue I think it is nail... head.

[Cards13 9,117]

Miller and Rivers still offer some value to the MFC. Make Miller the 3rd or 4th forward and he'd be pretty dangerous. As our key forward he's never going to make it. He gives his all and with some support he'll make a handy forward, if we keep him. As for Rivers. Surely we'll give him a year(2009) to find his feet, then a full preseason to get back up to speed. If he can remain injury free I'd say a few of you will be eating pie from your face, but hey what's new!

You can't blame Brockstar for having a thing against some of our players, we all do, and let's face it as a club we've carried some [censored] well past the Use By date. Wheatley, Whelan, Bruce, Johnson, Bell, Robertson all smell fishy to me.

Roosty I've have read this view on here a bit question is will he be around by the time our younger fwds mature to allow himself to be the 3rd fwd?

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

Cloke played very well.

Have you seen the year Franklin is having ? He can't take a mark since his injury.

Cloke was largely ineffectual and Franklin managed to kick four before Rivers was on him so he clearly wasn't having too much trouble that day.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

With Rivers how do you see Melbourne's backline this year and the next couple of years? We have 5 key position players in the back half. Garland, Warnock, Frawley, Martin and Rivers, you clearly can't have 5 in the backline you should really only have 3. Whose not going to make it? Considering Rivers is older, slower and more injury prone than the rest it's clear who I don't want in and if he can't get a game why would we want him clogging up the list like Bizzell and Yze have done before him.

Rivers.

Daylight.

A bit more daylight.

Garland.

Martin.

Frawley.

Warnock.

I know who I want in the team.

[Cards13 9,117]

Rivers.

Daylight.

A bit more daylight

I know who I want in the team.

Lots of space....

[Hannabal 4]

Franklin managed to kick four before Rivers was on him so he clearly wasn't having too much trouble that day.

How was our midfield travelling in the first half that day ?

Cloke, who's not quick, made Rivers look slow. Then again, he is.

[JJJ 1,142]

The value of Rivers was his ability to read the play, but teams rarely bomb it long into forward lines these days. Rivers isn't quick so he gets burned on a lead and just doesn't have the value he had a few years ago. The game has changed a massive amount since he won the RS.

I'm not saying delist him, but I'd certainly look at a trade and in fact advocated this last year. I've had no reason to change my mind. I reckon he'll be pushed out of the backline within two years.

I agree that Rivers has struggled at times this year and has me worried. The only thing that keeps me going is what difference it would make to his ability to read the play if we applied more pressure through the midfield and didn't get smashed at centre bounces.

[rusty_kingswood 0]

The only Miller that could offer some value is the aggressive Miller. He doesn't show it anywhere near enough. The shirtfront he gave the Werribee player 2 weeks ago was awesome we need to see more of that from Miller. He needs to play a Rooke type role where if the opposition see Miller they know they are going to get hurt. The dangerous Miller doesn't exist cause he hasn't got a football brain and he can't kick.

Thats not true.

Miler had his aggression beaten out of him. When ND was in charge, Miller was playing a VERY aggressive role, but kept getting rubbed out.

The MFC (particularly because they were grooming him for captaincy material) told him to ease up.

Thats why he hasn't got the same Miller aggression. I agree completely with the Rooke comparison. Miller should be feared.

[H_T 3,042]

I make no apologies in bagging the experienced players cause they have been disgraceful and are the main reason we are in this mess.

............. the Collingwood game showed that we still have a lot of old players we need to cull. It only looks bad cause Daniher left us with a team full of grandpa's.

So which is it Einstein?

Is it the players fault and the main reason we are in this mess, or is it Daniher leaving a team full of grandpa's that left us in this mess?

[rpfc 28,079]

The value of Rivers was his ability to read the play, but teams rarely bomb it long into forward lines these days. Rivers isn't quick so he gets burned on a lead and just doesn't have the value he had a few years ago. The game has changed a massive amount since he won the RS.

I'm not saying delist him, but I'd certainly look at a trade and in fact advocated this last year. I've had no reason to change my mind. I reckon he'll be pushed out of the backline within two years.

They will when we are a better team and able to pressure the ball carrier.

Value rise for Mr Rivers...