Something I have noticed

[Devoted Demon 0]

Strange as this is as new as I am to the AFL I have picked up on trains games and definatley here that the Demons have one of the most presious supporter bases. I have supported and NRL Team my entire life everyone gets along supports what ever decisions the team makes and runs with it but as I have made mention before I have signed a Full membership just resently for the first time to the Dees a team I have fallen in love with and mostly see from other members is bickering and little niggily remarks. Collingwood suporters at least get along they have a beer together they are solid supporters such as an NRL team I have followed my entire life.

My point being if die hard supporters that are talking on a website every day need to fight and bicker nearly daily like their opinion is the only right opinion I think I have chosen the wrong team or website. Can anyone point me to were the supporters of the dees go??? Cause I anything I say on here will probably NOT change the boards ideas probably NOT change the list managment I just want a website that supports not tears apart every little thing the club does.

My point is most probably not made that well and yes my speeling and grammer are poor just thought I would get that in before someone has a go at that to.

[Rogue 585]

the Dees a team I have fallen in love with and mostly see from other members is bickering and little niggily remarks. Collingwood suporters at least get along

Great choice with the Dees!

Regarding the arguments here I think all want to see the Dees succeed, and most are pretty amiable even when differing on how we should go about that success.

If you check out similar boards for other Clubs you'll find the same sorts of debates.

In the whole I think MFC supporters get along just as well as others.

IIRC last Melb v Coll match someone reported seeing a fight in the Collingwood cheer squad, so lets not romanticise them (or any other group).

[Guest petjud]

I totally agree with the sentiments expressed by Devoted Demon, I am only a new 'supporter' as well 2 years, but I actually support.

I have always felt that unless your username is hiding the fact you are an AFL/VFL premiership winning coach, a former VFL/AFL palyer with 200 games under your belt or one of the best football administrators ever, you can't really comment on the ability or lack of the coach, players or CEO........you can offer encouragement, have optimism, or make constuctive not destructive comments......if you want to be miserable...try standing in a corner, chaiin smoking and throwing cold buckets of water over yourself.....I don't mind sitting in a freezing stand on a cold and wet Friday night watching my team get smashed by the opposition because I will support them no matter what......besides I was never good enough to ;ay myself

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

Strange as this is as new as I am to the AFL I have picked up on trains games and definatley here that the Demons have one of the most presious supporter bases. I have supported and NRL Team my entire life everyone gets along supports what ever decisions the team makes and runs with it but as I have made mention before I have signed a Full membership just resently for the first time to the Dees a team I have fallen in love with and mostly see from other members is bickering and little niggily remarks. Collingwood suporters at least get along they have a beer together they are solid supporters such as an NRL team I have followed my entire life.

My point being if die hard supporters that are talking on a website every day need to fight and bicker nearly daily like their opinion is the only right opinion I think I have chosen the wrong team or website. Can anyone point me to were the supporters of the dees go??? Cause I anything I say on here will probably NOT change the boards ideas probably NOT change the list managment I just want a website that supports not tears apart every little thing the club does.

My point is most probably not made that well and yes my speeling and grammer are poor just thought I would get that in before someone has a go at that to.

Hi DD,

You are more than welcome here.

You have joined at a time when I reckon you will witness history being made by the Melbourne Footy Club.

I understand the points you raise in your post, but the "debates" you are witnessing on here are only reflective of the true passion Dees supporters feel for their Club.

While we may not always agree on this Forum and sometimes angrily so, we all love our footy club and welcome people like you who wish to join us.

Stay with us DD. There are special times ahead for all of us.

Cheers

[e25 5]

Strange as this is as new as I am to the AFL I have picked up on trains games and definatley here that the Demons have one of the most presious supporter bases. I have supported and NRL Team my entire life everyone gets along supports what ever decisions the team makes and runs with it but as I have made mention before I have signed a Full membership just resently for the first time to the Dees a team I have fallen in love with and mostly see from other members is bickering and little niggily remarks. Collingwood suporters at least get along they have a beer together they are solid supporters such as an NRL team I have followed my entire life.

My point being if die hard supporters that are talking on a website every day need to fight and bicker nearly daily like their opinion is the only right opinion I think I have chosen the wrong team or website. Can anyone point me to were the supporters of the dees go??? Cause I anything I say on here will probably NOT change the boards ideas probably NOT change the list managment I just want a website that supports not tears apart every little thing the club does.

My point is most probably not made that well and yes my speeling and grammer are poor just thought I would get that in before someone has a go at that to.

I think you'll find that even with the heated discussion about the lack of a sponsor, you only have 3 or 4 headstrong types that are predicting the demise of MFC at the hands of Schwab & Stynes.

I think the majority support these 2 in their current roles, be it wrong or right.

One of the things about a forum like this, usually the only people who will frequent this site during january (or even at all) is a very passionate supporter.

I have found on the whole that MFC supporters are a bit more intelligent than your standard collingwood supporter, if a bit more opinionated & arrogant.

But squabbles like this emerge when it seems that this club, the club we are fiercely defensive of, seems to be threatened. Intentions are irrelevant if they are ultimately misguided, and we more than any club have learnt this the hard way.

I argue with others on here continuously, but it would never stop me hugging them randomly in the crowd during a win or having a beer with them after the game.

I, for one, think its great to find some MFC supporters who have the same passion burning inside of them.

[grazman 6,620]

I think it's wrong to assume this doesn't happen in every other club. Collingwood aren't any different - they actually sacked their cheersquad not so long ago. Naturally everyone that feels strongly aligned to something like a footy club will have opinions, sometimes those opinions differ. That isn't necessarily a bad thing. Vigorous debate (easily distinguished by not resorting to personal insults and emotive responses) helps inform and persuade. It isn't necessarily a sign that the culture is unhealthy, its a reflection that people don't agree. There's rarely any 'right' solutions to complex problems.

[Devoted Demon 0]

I think you'll find that even with the heated discussion about the lack of a sponsor, you only have 3 or 4 headstrong types that are predicting the demise of MFC at the hands of Schwab & Stynes.

I think the majority support these 2 in their current roles, be it wrong or right.

One of the things about a forum like this, usually the only people who will frequent this site during january (or even at all) is a very passionate supporter.

I have found on the whole that MFC supporters are a bit more intelligent than your standard collingwood supporter, if a bit more opinionated & arrogant.

But squabbles like this emerge when it seems that this club, the club we are fiercely defensive of, seems to be threatened. Intentions are irrelevant if they are ultimately misguided, and we more than any club have learnt this the hard way.

I argue with others on here continuously, but it would never stop me hugging them randomly in the crowd during a win or having a beer with them after the game.

I, for one, think its great to find some MFC supporters who have the same passion burning inside of them.

Good way of putting things... I hope to see you all at the first game this year the dees will rise.

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

Good one DD.

[Little Goffy 12,768]

Devoted Demon, you're observation that there's a lot of people a bit edgy at the moment is true, especially when it comes to the board.

It's shame, but there have been a couple of boards now that have left the fans feeling betrayed, and I think there's a lingering sense for a lot of people that the various boards have been significantly responsible for the crisis we're in.

Consider

- there was the 'non-merger' with Hawtorn, where a lot of people were angry and a lot of people felt like the numbers had been stacked (people not able to get in to the meeting) to get the vote in favour of the merger at the special general meeting.

- then there was the 'saviour' Gutnick, who bailed the club out to an extent, but was then a very abrasive and intrusive president which it turned out also had a somewhat unscrupulous edge that, in the final count, cost us Matthew Pavlich at pick four in the 1999 draft.

- Gabriel Szondy, as CEO in the early 2000s, can be fairly held accountable for a couple of million dollars in losses, according to many.

- finally, the Garnder as president and Steve Harris as CEO period... always just barely ok, never any major progress. Under, and by many reckonings because of, Harris, there was a huge turnover of staff and steadily degenerating morale among the staff at the club. Then there were the 'Team Melbourne' and 'China Strategy' initiatives, both of qhich were put forward loudly but then not followed through on properly. After three years of profits of about three dollars and fifty cents, Harris was sacked (and paid out $250,000), MacNamee recruited, then the whole Garnder board got 'pushed out', MacNamee was sacked, and the club left with a multi-million dollar loss to deal with that seemed to come out of nowhere - there was nothing in the previous few year's reports to suggest a financial slump was on the cards.

So you see, the fans have been kept in the dark for a long time, the club administration is widely seen as the core problem for the Demons, rather than a solution, and people are worn out from always trying to be upbeat everytime there's a change or a new half-baked initiative. I know I felt burnt a number of times, when I'd put by heart behind some new initiative, saying 'this will be the beginnings of a turnaround'... only to be disspointed again. Right now everyone is nervous about the major sponsor - and we have no good information on what the situation is. Until that is sorted out, we're still all tense as hell - this club can still die.

So, while I personally think the club is going in the right direction now, it's worth acknowledging that people are entitled to be really, really edgy.

Welcome to the club, Devoted Demon, it's gonna be an interesting ride.

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

Devoted Demon, you're observation that there's a lot of people a bit edgy at the moment is true, especially when it comes to the board.

It's shame, but there have been a couple of boards now that have left the fans feeling betrayed, and I think there's a lingering sense for a lot of people that the various boards have been significantly responsible for the crisis we're in.

Consider

- there was the 'non-merger' with Hawtorn, where a lot of people were angry and a lot of people felt like the numbers had been stacked (people not able to get in to the meeting) to get the vote in favour of the merger at the special general meeting.

- then there was the 'saviour' Gutnick, who bailed the club out to an extent, but was then a very abrasive and intrusive president which it turned out also had a somewhat unscrupulous edge that, in the final count, cost us Matthew Pavlich at pick four in the 1999 draft.

- Gabriel Szondy, as CEO in the early 2000s, can be fairly held accountable for a couple of million dollars in losses, according to many.

- finally, the Garnder as president and Steve Harris as CEO period... always just barely ok, never any major progress. Under, and by many reckonings because of, Harris, there was a huge turnover of staff and steadily degenerating morale among the staff at the club. Then there were the 'Team Melbourne' and 'China Strategy' initiatives, both of qhich were put forward loudly but then not followed through on properly. After three years of profits of about three dollars and fifty cents, Harris was sacked (and paid out $250,000), MacNamee recruited, then the whole Garnder board got 'pushed out', MacNamee was sacked, and the club left with a multi-million dollar loss to deal with that seemed to come out of nowhere - there was nothing in the previous few year's reports to suggest a financial slump was on the cards.

So you see, the fans have been kept in the dark for a long time, the club administration is widely seen as the core problem for the Demons, rather than a solution, and people are worn out from always trying to be upbeat everytime there's a change or a new half-baked initiative. I know I felt burnt a number of times, when I'd put by heart behind some new initiative, saying 'this will be the beginnings of a turnaround'... only to be disspointed again. Right now everyone is nervous about the major sponsor - and we have no good information on what the situation is. Until that is sorted out, we're still all tense as hell - this club can still die.

So, while I personally think the club is going in the right direction now, it's worth acknowledging that people are entitled to be really, really edgy.

Welcome to the club, Devoted Demon, it's gonna be an interesting ride.

What a great post!!!!

Balanced and well said.

[pringle 42]

Welcome aboard Devoted Demon. I think all of the others have done a good job explaining the debate on this forum. Though some people do occasionally go over the top and things can at times become a bit personal, the overriding theme here is that all of us have a strong passion for the MFC. It is only natural that in a time of crisis, the true supporters will become even more passionate and debate even more fiercely, because there are more things going wrong to debate about.

I'm actually curious to know how you came to support the Dees. This is currently an important issue for the club. We need to know how to attract more members and new fans for the future. Your experience and reasons for joining up could inspire a new idea for the club to utilize in attracting new supporters like yourself.

Stick with us DD. It was only 2 pre-seasons ago that we were touted as the great Victorian hope before injuries cruelled us for the last 2 season and forced a re-build. We can turn this around and become a force again, and i believe it will be sooner than many here and outside this forum think.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Nice work DD. Though I'd like to know more specifically, is it the infighting between posters on here that you're objecting to? Or is it the supporters' dissatisfaction with decisions made by the club?

If it's the former, then I tend to agree... in my few wanderings into Saintsational and the Pies and Dons board, people seem more friendly than we do here. I'm afraid that it's probably a case of just a small handful of posters being a bit keen to disagree, without there being call for disagreement. They're called keyboard heroes, or words to that effect, and I would suggest you just hit the "ignore" button if they irritate you.

If it's the latter, I think perhaps you should have a think about the situation. We are in a dire state, and have been for a while now, after having come from being the most powerful club in the country fifty years ago. As supporters we have a right to be disappointed, and to take it out on those in power at MFC... Moreover I would hope that the criticisms would continue. After all where would we be if those people weren't able to see where they're going wrong?

But in general, I'm like you, I think there's a place for positivity. Over at demonology (another dees site) they are VERY quick to create a clique and to decry ANYTHING, just for the sake of being heard. Which is a shame I reckon as there's some VERY wise heads over there. They often get stuck in to 'land for being childish and for not seeing the state of the club or team as it really is...

I reckon now particularly is a time when we DESPERATELY need that blind enthusiasm, and I'm glad it takes place mostly on 'land.

[Devoted Demon 0]

Welcome aboard Devoted Demon. I think all of the others have done a good job explaining the debate on this forum. Though some people do occasionally go over the top and things can at times become a bit personal, the overriding theme here is that all of us have a strong passion for the MFC. It is only natural that in a time of crisis, the true supporters will become even more passionate and debate even more fiercely, because there are more things going wrong to debate about.

I'm actually curious to know how you came to support the Dees. This is currently an important issue for the club. We need to know how to attract more members and new fans for the future. Your experience and reasons for joining up could inspire a new idea for the club to utilize in attracting new supporters like yourself.

Stick with us DD. It was only 2 pre-seasons ago that we were touted as the great Victorian hope before injuries cruelled us for the last 2 season and forced a re-build. We can turn this around and become a force again, and i believe it will be sooner than many here and outside this forum think.

To be honest I joined the Dees because I have an insane Dees Suporter as a brother inlaw who took me to the games over 2 years. I loved flashes dashes and wheelans and Picketts big hits Melbourne seemed like a tough team. I loved the culture of the supporters like my brother inlaw. not that hard to get new members you need to be passionate get new people who are new to the game to see the excitement in your club. I have now bought on 2 New members this year not heaps but every little bit counts.

PS one of the new memebers did lose a bet

[Gippy Dee 48]

To be honest I joined the Dees because I have an insane Dees Suporter as a brother inlaw who took me to the games over 2 years. I loved flashes dashes and wheelans and Picketts big hits Melbourne seemed like a tough team. I loved the culture of the supporters like my brother inlaw. not that hard to get new members you need to be passionate get new people who are new to the game to see the excitement in your club. I have now bought on 2 New members this year not heaps but every little bit counts.

PS one of the new memebers did lose a bet

I think we can all take a page from this.

Showing our passion for our club and embracing the great things about our club is the way we need to persononalise our club and of which will no doubt bring more people to our club.

I turned my sister who after 10 years and 3 Premierships barracking for the Brisbane Lions to join Melbourne as a supporter and as a member as she loved going to the games with my father and I to watch Robbo take screamers and win games. Now she can't get enough of the Club. She loves it as she gets excited with the younger players like Colin Garland and Cale Morton take the field. Its a beautiful thing. These are the kind of things that we need to portray to friends, family and new comers.

You won't win many people to the club by telling people that we've had turbulent off-field tussles and the club is in heavy debt.

[beelzebub 22,282]

This raises a curious aspect..but not necessarily in the vogue it was meant.

Melbourne as a team and more precisely a following is much maligned as "passionless' . This really couldnt be further from the truth. We have the highest supporter membership translation in the league, passionless? We are starved of success and we voice it ..passionless ? We had to stop the 'vanishing" ( merger ) passionless ? we WANT the team to succeed ..we want a distinct identity and we want ..no demand respect. Passionless ?

Weve been sold more than our share of pups over the years. We are edgy ..for sure. Its a little like finding that special person only to have them turn on you when you have just bared your soul..another disappointment..after another. The history of this club ( post 64 ) is littered with tantalising tastes of success and false dawns. Some of us have seen it all time and time again.

There is a slumbering monster that is stirring. Its the Demon. Many want to jump aboard but have been burnt...many crave success but darent express it. Many are tired of the next you beaut saviour burning to an ember. So feelings are raw...sensitivities are up. Some may see some vehemtn discussion as bickering and in many respects it is but what it really is is preseason nerves - again !! That sense that the hopes will prove illusionary yet again.

Stangely I feel there is a genuine change afoot. Do I dismiss the thoughts of others that they arent up with us on this ? NO. I understand where it all comes form.

We are actually united in one common cause..the success of the Melbourne Football Club..we just take a myriad of varying paths and beliefs in taking the journey. Our passion can often bring our views to a head but we all just want one thing...to dare to dream we will hold that cup aloft again and take our rightful place in the minds of all football followers; we're Demons and bloody proud of it

GO DEES !!!!!!!!

[Yencks 8]

- there was the 'non-merger' with Hawtorn, where a lot of people were angry and a lot of people felt like the numbers had been stacked (people not able to get in to the meeting) to get the vote in favour of the merger at the special general meeting.

out of interest, do u believe the numbers were stacked and that people were unable to get into the Dallas Brooks Hall to vote?

[52k2 0]

I was at the hall that night, got there early, 6pm got a row 7 seat. One stage during the night sought out Ronald dale and proceeded to have an argument

with him over his lack of visibility against the merger. Why I mentioned this is I went into the entrance hall and saw a long line of very disappointed and

somewhat angry people.... NO somewhat angry MEMBERS stuck outside unable to get in and have a say over their mighty team.

Also the orginal postal vote was only one way ,you could only give your preference to one side. That was eventually fixed but how many brumby

preferences were obtained before the correction.

ONE TOWN..........ONE TEAM..........ONE PASSION

[Jarka 767]

Collingwood suporters at least get along they have a beer together....

What a complete load of tripe.

Just one example...at one stage the pies had three different cheers squads because of their infighting, bickering and politics.

[Jarka 767]

out of interest, do u believe the numbers were stacked and that people were unable to get into the Dallas Brooks Hall to vote?

I was there, I only got in because I was early. The only reason why people didn't get in was because there were simply too many people.

It's hilarous (not saying you are btw) hearing people suggest that there was a conspiracy that night, what they're basically accusing the club of doing was walking up and down the line and asking people who they were going to vote for and only letting the pro mergers in.

I remember discussing it with the people I was sitting around with (whom I had never met before), almost all of us made our decisions are hearing both sides present their view.

Interestingly everything that tiger Ridley predicted that night has come true, the only thing he got wrong was the CBF from the AFL.

[Yencks 8]

I was there, I only got in because I was early. The only reason why people didn't get in was because there were simply too many people.

It's hilarous (not saying you are btw) hearing people suggest that there was a conspiracy that night, what they're basically accusing the club of doing was walking up and down the line and asking people who they were going to vote for and only letting the pro mergers in.

I remember discussing it with the people I was sitting around with (whom I had never met before), almost all of us made our decisions are hearing both sides present their view.

Interestingly everything that tiger Ridley predicted that night has come true, the only thing he got wrong was the CBF from the AFL.

but one of his major worries was about not having a base and i think we are slowly making progress.

but yes, i just finished his book three days ago and he claims that everyone with a membership got into the hall and that is why it started an hour late. also, he claims that the whole vote stacking bill guest conspiracy theories were compleltely exagerated and did not affect the final vote.

i cannot remember it at the time, and there is no way i would vote for a merger now, but i recon that in 1996, i wouldve voted FOR the merger because i wouldve been convinced by the papers and the past players etc that thought it was the only option for our future.

i dont blame anyone for voting for the merger.

[Yencks 8]

which reminds me, ian ridley hassa mann etc and the current board had no obligation to go the members for a vote about the merger and could legally have done it without members vote...something that i thought was interesting

[Mono 454]

........

- then there was the 'saviour' Gutnick, who bailed the club out to an extent, but was then a very abrasive and intrusive president which it turned out also had a somewhat unscrupulous edge that, in the final count, cost us Matthew Pavlich at pick four in the 1999 draft.

..................................

Now, that's a new one to me. Care to explain?

Ed: think I know. We lost draft picks for salary cap breaches. Don't think I've ever heard the blaim for the breaches should be laid with Gutnick. And we did rather well trading Longmuir for pick 19 (Wheatley).

Then there's the 99 draft. No cert we would have picked Pavlich. Have a look here, of the first 16 picks, only Pavlich and Corey are guns, then maybe Fraser, Haselby & Murphy depending on your point of view. Heavens, we might have picked Cupido!!

[e25 5]

Now, that's a new one to me. Care to explain?

Ed: think I know. We lost draft picks for salary cap breaches. Don't think I've ever heard the blaim for the breaches should be laid with Gutnick. And we did rather well trading Longmuir for pick 19 (Wheatley).

Then there's the 99 draft. No cert we would have picked Pavlich. Have a look here, of the first 16 picks, only Pavlich and Corey are guns, then maybe Fraser, Haselby & Murphy depending on your point of view. Heavens, we might have picked Cupido!!

I think he's saying the draft pick we lost, due to coming clean on salary cap breaches, would've had us pick pavlich.

Whether any of that was Gutnick's fault or not is debatable.

[Yencks 8]

gutnick came out and said all the stuff about salary cap braching in the "previous administration" without consulting his board. ian ridley and hassa mann still do not think they did anything wrong i believe.

[jabberwocky 2,301]

Time to move into the future. Not to say that the club can't learn a thing or two from the lessons of the past. What's important is that mistakes were made, it doesn't matter who made them, what matters is that they are not repeated.

Negatively dwelling on past failures will not help the club, drawing positives from our history, our present and looking forward to success is what will drive the club.