The big tank

[Courtney_Fish 183]

I don't think I start many threads but I have to say that I am still so upset about that last game against Carlton last year. Every time I think about draft selections and what could have been I want to cry. And coming last you'd think a few things would go our way but we're still bending over repeatedly for Carlton.

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,389]

I know it hurts doesn't it! But the Dees where never going to lose that game with MFC greats such as Brown, Bizzell and Pickett retiring in the same game. Plus Carltank had more to lose by winning.

Looking to 2009, the club would be irresponsible to win 5-7 games next year.

Assuming West Coast have a better season, we could very well get picks 1, 2 and 18 next year.

So in summary this what our early draft picks could like from 2007-2009:

Morton,

Grimes,

Maric,

______

Watts

Pick 17

Pick 19

______

Pick 1 (best young midfielder)

Pick 2 (best young KPP)

Pick 18

Hopefully 9 quality players that will turn this club around from 2011 onwards.

[e25 5]

I don't think I start many threads but I have to say that I am still so upset about that last game against Carlton last year. Every time I think about draft selections and what could have been I want to cry. And coming last you'd think a few things would go our way but we're still bending over repeatedly for Carlton.

I get what you're saying, but we need to mentally get past that.

Focusing on what could've been or what other clubs are doing is not going to bring our club back from the brink.

No more defeatist attitude. No more looking in the rearview mirror. No more 'if only's.

We need be introspective and demand the very best from ourselves regardless of what other clubs are doing.

We need to be a leader, not a follower. In every aspect. On the field. Off the field. In the media.

We need to concentrate on the big THINK tank that Jimmy is holding, the Demon Summit.

Brainstorm, think of ideas that will make our club better. Big ideas. Ridiculous ideas. Ideas out of left field.

Small improvements even. Tweaks that will have a cumulative effect and return our club to its former glory.

This is our chance to do something for our club. And good ideas WILL be used.

Its up to US. The time is NOW.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

I don't think I start many threads but I have to say that I am still so upset about that last game against Carlton last year. Every time I think about draft selections and what could have been I want to cry. And coming last you'd think a few things would go our way but we're still bending over repeatedly for Carlton.

The last round in 2007 has been done to death and I agree with your frustration. However how are we bending over to Carlton?

I know it hurts doesn't it! But the Dees where never going to lose that game with MFC greats such as Brown, Bizzell and Pickett retiring in the same game. Plus Carltank had more to lose by winning.

The issue of the retiring greats had nothing to do with the fact that Carlton had destined to itself to lose the games amongst other by not tagging TJ who got 41 possessions. Isaac Weetra was more of MFC great than that the cheat Pickett.

Looking to 2009, the club would be irresponsible to win 5-7 games next year.

For a poster who is making criticism at the Coach your post is absurdly negative. What do we do if we were say 4 wins after 6 games? Tank it or go for it. If the players can improve and get those results should we pull them back? If were 4 wins after round 16/17 then I agree that we should ensure our PP.

The major issue is the extent of the improvement in our existing group of players.

[Stigga 25]

I get what you're saying, but we need to mentally get past that.

Focusing on what could've been or what other clubs are doing is not going to bring our club back from the brink.

No more defeatist attitude. No more looking in the rearview mirror. No more 'if only's.

I'd rather what happened with us than:

Tambling over Franklin

Fiora over Pavlich

Ouch.

[Golgothan 0]

For a poster who is making criticism at the Coach your post is absurdly negative. What do we do if we were say 4 wins after 6 games? Tank it or go for it. If the players can improve and get those results should we pull them back? If were 4 wins after round 16/17 then I agree that we should ensure our PP.

The major issue is the extent of the improvement in our existing group of players.

That's where my head is at & i think everyone should be hoping along these lines. Start the year trying to win as many games as possible. If we get to round 17-18 and we're on 3 or 4 wins, then you'd start to think that we should not win more then 4 games.

If we manage to win 4 of the first 12 games, are people going to seriously barrack for us to lose the last 10 consecutive games??

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

I'm gonna cop it for this:

It's not AS big a deal as everyone suggests.

Picks 2, 17 and 20... in 2007

Then picks 1, 2 and 18 in 2008...

vs

Picks 4, 21

Then 1, 17 and 19...

We still got 5 picks in the first 20 or so in these two years (if you don't count the Johnstone trade), that would only have been 6 had we tanked...

The only certain place we missed out was the priority (any priority) in 2007. I can live with that, it's only one player, and if history has shown anything it's that recruiting is a complete mystery MOST of the time. The more stabs we get at the first 20-25 draftees the better. And while I would love to have Rich and Watts at the club, you never know how good our pick 17 is going to be. It may be the luckiest thing that ever happened to us.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

I'm gonna cop it for this:

It's not AS big a deal as everyone suggests.

I think you are wrong but there is nothing we can do about it now. Its right to think positively about the future. But still I would have liked Picks 1 and 2 this year.

[deanox 9,676]

And while I would love to have Rich and Watts at the club, you never know how good our pick 17 is going to be. It may be the luckiest thing that ever happened to us.

very good post.

give it 10 years and we'll judge it again.

priority picks got us no where last time.

[H_T 3,032]

I'd rather what happened with us than:

Tambling over Franklin

Fiora over Pavlich

Ouch.

OUCH!!

[titan_uranus 24,654]

This was discussed earlier this year: http://forums.demonland.com/index.php?showtopic=11573

As I wrote there, we should never have been in a position to tank in Round 22. We had so many matches earlier in the season that we should have won.

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,389]

. What do we do if we were say 4 wins after 6 games? Tank it or go for it.

Go for it obviously. But you and I know that won't happen.

If we're 4-7 after round 11, then I say go for 8 or 9 wins.

And as you said, if we're 4 wins after round 16, then it's time to put players into surgery.

Surely the 4.5 win limit must be at the back of the minds of the MFC brainstrust.

Picks 1 and 2 next year would be amazing for this footy club.

[Geddy Lee 582]

very good post.

give it 10 years and we'll judge it again.

priority picks got us no where last time.

Good point deanox.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

very good post.

give it 10 years and we'll judge it again.

priority picks got us no where last time.

Amazing! You would not want to have access to the 2nd best youngster in the country!

The reason the PP was of limited value last time was the quality of the 2003 draft pool. Aside from Cooney and possibly McLean its been a disaster. And that was not the fault of the PP! This year has been rated as a cracker with the top 3 being very highly rated.

The absence of talent in the trade or PSD draws makes draft picks particularly Top 5 picks absolutely vital to your Club future.

You should be able to judge now not in 10 years.

Go for it obviously. But you and I know that won't happen.

If we're 4-7 after round 11, then I say go for 8 or 9 wins.

And as you said, if we're 4 wins after round 16, then it's time to put players into surgery.

Surely the 4.5 win limit must be at the back of the minds of the MFC brainstrust.

Picks 1 and 2 next year would be amazing for this footy club.

Agree.

[deanox 9,676]

Rhino, I would love to have the 2 best kids in the country.

My issue is you cannot go into a season planning on trying to snare those two kids when a) the season hasn't started and b ) we don't know how that draft will end up being rated.

in hindsight, the extra priority pick last time got us an average player. maybe next time it will get us a cracker. maybe it wont.

we wont know til after the fact, same as we didnt know that year that sylvia wouldnt come on like we hoped, or that mclean would be stalled through injury, or that the ox would do two knees, or that bruce would be in our top players after coming off the rookie list.

these things are all hindsight, you do your best in the circumstances but it is not worth us trying to get that one extra pick, the chances the player will be anything above average are probably only 50-50, the chances the player will be a superstar are tiny.

going into a season trying to win games is more important.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Rhino, I would love to have the 2 best kids in the country.

My issue is you cannot go into a season planning on trying to snare those two kids when a) the season hasn't started and b ) we don't know how that draft will end up being rated.

in hindsight, the extra priority pick last time got us an average player. maybe next time it will get us a cracker. maybe it wont.

we wont know til after the fact, same as we didnt know that year that sylvia wouldnt come on like we hoped, or that mclean would be stalled through injury, or that the ox would do two knees, or that bruce would be in our top players after coming off the rookie list.

these things are all hindsight, you do your best in the circumstances but it is not worth us trying to get that one extra pick, the chances the player will be anything above average are probably only 50-50, the chances the player will be a superstar are tiny.

going into a season trying to win games is more important.

But it was not the priority pick that was the issue? And if we are worried about contingent events lets not get Jack Watts with our first pick! He might do a knee.

The B'low medallist, the Norm Smith Medallist and the Coleman medal winner were Top 4 picks in their respective years. If you want talent you need to have the best draft picks possible. How is it that 16 AFL Clubs know and treasure that (ie they wont trade them) and you work it out???

We all knew where MFC stood in 2007 when ND was sacked in Round 12/13. It was a train wreck and we were going nowhere. What message was given to Mark Riley that we won meaningless games against Carlton (x2) and the Bulldogs. We curse Carlton for tanking when MF were not smart enough to read the tea leaves and ensure it had won no more 4 game record for the year. The Bulldogs game was the game that crucified us.

Just for the record had we won only 4 games in 2007 we would have access to a talent in the range of Grimes and Maric. This year we would have access to Daniel Rich.

And if you still cant work it. Do the analysis and work out what the lack of access to potential quality footballers did to us in 1999 and 2000 with the salary cap penalties. Together with poor recruiting in 2001, there is currently a yawning gap on our list for quality footballers aged between 26 and 29. Go figure.

[deanox 9,676]

But it was not the priority pick that was the issue? And if we are worried about contingent events lets not get Jack Watts with our first pick! He might do a knee.

The B'low medallist, the Norm Smith Medallist and the Coleman medal winner were Top 4 picks in their respective years. If you want talent you need to have the best draft picks possible. How is it that 16 AFL Clubs know and treasure that (ie they wont trade them) and you work it out???

We all knew where MFC stood in 2007 when ND was sacked in Round 12/13. It was a train wreck and we were going nowhere. What message was given to Mark Riley that we won meaningless games against Carlton (x2) and the Bulldogs. We curse Carlton for tanking when MF were not smart enough to read the tea leaves and ensure it had won no more 4 game record for the year. The Bulldogs game was the game that crucified us.

Just for the record had we won only 4 games in 2007 we would have access to a talent in the range of Grimes and Maric. This year we would have access to Daniel Rich.

And if you still cant work it. Do the analysis and work out what the lack of access to potential quality footballers did to us in 1999 and 2000 with the salary cap penalties. Together with poor recruiting in 2001, there is currently a yawning gap on our list for quality footballers aged between 26 and 29. Go figure.

i realise it is an issue Rhino, and when it that situation I am all for ensuring that the side picked will not win the games.

but seriously, 14 months on we are past it and there is no use lamenting what could have been, because it hasn't happened, and we need to move forward.

you may aswell start a new thread complaining about how we didnt get chris judd.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

I think you are wrong but there is nothing we can do about it now. Its right to think positively about the future. But still I would have liked Picks 1 and 2 this year.

Yeah, look... Obviously you want to have the absolute best position possible in ANY draft. And yes, given we have been the worst performed side in 2 years, we should have two years worth of the best picks... My ONLY contention here is that it's not the end of the world. The important thing is that we get an extra pick, and that pick is early enough to make a difference.

I would have thought Rich and Watts would be a big coup, as the club can talk the talk, get members excited, the general footy public can get all pumped up... but as far as I'm concerned I'll get EQUALLY as excited with whoever we get at 17 and 19. As you and I have said many times, once recruited, the players start from scratch. We get quality, and we get a certain type of player, and in the end that's all that I'm worried about in the draft for 2008.

And for the record, I don't reckon we'll do MUCH next year, but I feel like we'd have to be VERY fortuitous to grab the priority before round 1.

[dazzledavey36 52,906]

I'd rather what happened with us than:

Tambling over Franklin

Fiora over Pavlich

Ouch.

i hope we look at this bloke!

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

i realise it is an issue Rhino, and when it that situation I am all for ensuring that the side picked will not win the games.

but seriously, 14 months on we are past it and there is no use lamenting what could have been, because it hasn't happened, and we need to move forward.

you may aswell start a new thread complaining about how we didnt get chris judd.

Read post #8 and I know nothing can be done.

But to say its not an issue and that a 1st round PP because they werent good last time is naive.

The handling of the post ND time in 2007 was a disaster for the Club.

And it will haunt us in 10 years time for what we could have had.

MFC needs to get alot smarter that it has demonstrated at times over recent years.

Lets move on, realise the mistake and ensure it is never done again.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

My ONLY contention here is that it's not the end of the world. The important thing is that we get an extra pick, and that pick is early enough to make a difference.

I would have thought Rich and Watts would be a big coup, as the club can talk the talk, get members excited, the general footy public can get all pumped up... but as far as I'm concerned I'll get EQUALLY as excited with whoever we get at 17 and 19. As you and I have said many times, once recruited, the players start from scratch. We get quality, and we get a certain type of player, and in the end that's all that I'm worried about in the draft for 2008.

The difference between a PP at No 1 and a draft pick at 17 is considerable. The PP this year is he best talent of his kind in the country. Think a Kruezer, Murphy, Gibbs and Cooney. They might start at the same spot as a lesser draft but there class sets them apart. If you cant realise the difference in quality that your talking about them enjoy your bliss.

[Courtney_Fish 183]

you may aswell start a new thread complaining about how we didnt get chris judd.

You're quite right. We must push on and not punish ourselves.

[Pipefitter 2,139]

I cant think of a good team that has ever tanked.