So the question has to be asked

[praha 10,423]

Our fall-off over the past 2 years is probably on par with Hawthorn's from 2001-2004. They went from a Prelim team to a disgrace. They rebuilt and have now won the flag.

Can we do the same? Before our terrible year on the bottom, Hawthorn was probably the next worst over the past 8 or so years when they were down there.

Can we rebuild AND win a flag. Rebuilding obviously just isn't enough.

[LeBron James 41]

It all depends on next year. We need to get pick 1 & 2 next year.

I don't give a [censored] if we only win one game next year. I want a grand final win. If we get pick 1 and 2 next year we will be well on our way.

[Guest Demon85]

A top draft pick doesnt guarantee a great quality player. If the club cannot develop the players that are there now and our future draft picks i dont think it matters if we get 1 and 2 or just 16.

[beelzebub 22,426]

It all depends on next year. We need to get pick 1 & 2 next year.

Rubbish...

We have some genuine talent coming through.. .we have a golden opportunity to trade and draft well.. Our ascent starts in 09.. Forget all this crap about getting all the best picks..ALL THE TIME !! its a false hope. All it means is youre perpetaully good enough to come last !! Hardly something to aspire to.

We start improving now.. we supplement with the best available for what ever picks we have next year and we keep going.

We look to improve...not tread water. We've had the bottoming out we needed...Now's the time to climb ....in 0 9 !!

[two sheds jackson 3]

Dees06; if we finish in the higher end of the bottom 8 it will mean that our (very young) side is progressing and that Bailey's gameplan is catching on- and we'd still get a top 10 draft pick. If we win one game it will show that we've gone backwards, and that Bailey might not be up to the task.

This whole notion that its better to sit in the bottom four for a few years to pick up draft picks is ridiculous. It didnt help St Kilda, and theres a fair chance it wont help Carlton. It hasnt been Hawthorns strategy; they bottomed out in 2004, marginally improved in 2005, significantly improved in 2006, made the 8 in 2007 and became a serious premiership contender this year. Our bottoming out period was (hopefully) this year and last year, and we should be hoping for steady improvement over the next few years.

[grazman 6,667]

It's important for to remember that Clarkson copped absolute crap from supporters and the media in years two and three of his tenure. Time is measured in premium rates in footy. Fans and the media are quick to judge, there won't be many retractions run.

Personally I think we're on the right track with Bailey. Brock should be captain in two years time - he'll be better than Mitchell!

[Mono 454]

Dees06; if we finish in the higher end of the bottom 8 it will mean that our (very young) side is progressing and that Bailey's gameplan is catching on- and we'd still get a top 10 draft pick. If we win one game it will show that we've gone backwards, and that Bailey might not be up to the task.

This whole notion that its better to sit in the bottom four for a few years to pick up draft picks is ridiculous. It didnt help St Kilda, and theres a fair chance it wont help Carlton. It hasnt been Hawthorns strategy; they bottomed out in 2004, marginally improved in 2005, significantly improved in 2006, made the 8 in 2007 and became a serious premiership contender this year. Our bottoming out period was (hopefully) this year and last year, and we should be hoping for steady improvement over the next few years.

The difference might be that Hawks started seriously drafting for the future in 2001 (with some good picks in 99). They bottommed in 04.

While our drafting has been pretty good this year, and maybe 06. Not so good before that. So the Hawks bottomed out when they had the (young) cattle already. We have bottomed out at about the time we are gathering the cattle.

I don't see where any real improvement next year will come from. :angry:

I agree that the whole notion of "getting early draft picks will fix every thing" is ludicrous. Cargo-cult stuff. Careful selections (the majority of Harks best palyers today were NOT early picks - often higher than 20), and good coaching, and a culture of not accepting midiocrity will see us progress.

Speaking of coaching, Paul Williams should be sacked. Our mid-field was 3rd world (Rhino's term); he should be held accountable.

[Eastie Boyz 0]

Hawthorn never finished last though did they?

They traded for picks (ie Hodge in 2001) and used them VERY well.

Since (and including) the 01 have haven't had too many misses

[Jumping Jack Clennett 1,630]

It all depends on next year. We need to get pick 1 & 2 next year.

I don't give a [censored] if we only win one game next year. I want a grand final win. If we get pick 1 and 2 next year we will be well on our way.

That's bull-dust! We all know that the second Qld team is getting all the draft picks next year.

We need to learn to WIN again next year.

[Spaghetti 264]

That's bull-dust! We all know that the second Qld team is getting all the draft picks next year.

We need to learn to WIN again next year.

No, that is in 2010. GC17 will only have access to QLD kids next year.

[Mono 454]

No, that is in 2010. GC17 will only have access to QLD kids next year.

Then why is everyone, including clubs, saying that this draft (next month) is the last UNCOMPROMISED draft?

[grazman 6,667]

After watching the GF today and bemoaning another Hawthorn premiership... err Tassie premiership. I was despondent at the thought that this could be Carlton in a couple of years. I went to the footy record to try and make some sense out of how the Hawks had managed to assemble a premiership in the few short years since we had tumbled from pretenders to not-even-in-the-same-postcode!

There's a danger in over-analysing something like this and probably a bigger danger in trying to emulate a system you can't possibly implement.

From today's team Hawthorn have 12 listed players as first round draft picks of which ten played today. (the two who didn't were Muston and Thorp) They had five rookie listed players who also played today. Their two ruckman who I thought were more than serviceable were a rookie and second round pick - underlining why you probably shouldn't use pick one on a ruckman and casts a shadow over swapping an early pick for Warnock.

I'm not really that big on number crunching - but that's obviously a fair proportion of their team that are first round picks (much higher than say the Swans or Eagles had in their premiership years)

When I look at where we're heading I count ten listed first round picks. McLean, Sylvia, Morton, Grimes, Jones, Bate, Dunn, Bell, Frawley and Meesen. Obviously there's some problems there and the list should be shorter.

I suspect that some teams will follow suit. West Coast have seven first round draftees, and I think they'll add another three this year. I think they'll trade Kerr to Sydney for their first pick and the Dogs first pick (for O'Keefe) I expect they'll also try and offload Hansen and a couple of others for early picks. I also suspect with trading Kerr that a priority pick for 09 is on the cards.

It's tempting to think that with a little luck we could be ready to challenge again in a two or three years, but to win a premiership you need to be realistic, we need to get more class and hardness into our side. Everytime I watch a grand final it emphasises that courage never goes out of fashion. That's why I wouldn't trade McLean, Jones, Sylvia, Rivers or Green.

[Red and Blue Flame 142]

Then why is everyone, including clubs, saying that this draft (next month) is the last UNCOMPROMISED draft?

i'm with you mono i think everyone here on demonland is wrong

the draft in 2009 is GC17 paradise! im prety sure whoever comes last gets pick 4 (mind you, we'd ge tthe priority i think still if we win 5 games or less).

[Jumping Jack Clennett 1,630]

"Then why is everyone, including clubs, saying that this draft (next month) is the last UNCOMPROMISED draft?"

What is the correct answer here? We all should know!

[Red and Blue Flame 142]

from realfooty.com.au

The AFL yesterday unveiled the drafting rules and concessions it has put in place to build Gold Coast's inaugural list, which will consist of 48 senior players and nine rookies — 10 players more than its rivals. The club will be allowed an extra $1 million in its salary cap to pay its list but that will come back to parity with other clubs by 2015.

The short-term future of the priority pick is again under review, with the AFL possibly set to suspend the priority system for the most compromised drafts of 2010 and 2011.

While Gold Coast is set to dominate the 2010 draft with six of the top nine picks, the second expansion club, West Sydney, is likely to have a similar deal when it makes its debut 12 months later.

As well as its raft of early draft picks (Nos. 1, 2, 3, 5, 7 and 9) in the 2010 draft, Gold Coast will also be allowed to take as many as 16 uncontracted players from rival clubs in its start-up season.

But despite getting nine of the first 15 selections, plus the opening selection in every round of the 2010 draft, the consortium hoping to run the Gold Coast club was not happy last night. In June, the club wanted 20 of the first 24 picks. GC17 committee member Graeme Downie labelled it a "skinny start".

"It's not as good as it looks. We won't be popping any champagne corks," he said.

"It's a skinny start."

The expansion club can take only one player per club unless an existing club agrees to a second player moving north and taking the further compensation.

The level of reparation will be decided by a system where points are allocated depending on the player's age — greater weighting being given to younger players — where that player ranks on his existing club's wage scale, his performances in the best-and-fairest awards in the previous three years and should he have less than four years' experience and where he was drafted by his original club.

The most highly valued players will be deemed worthy of a first-round pick, compensation for second-tier players will be taken at the end of round one. Third-tier players will come during round two, the fourth level of players at the end of round two and the bottom grouping will be a third-round pick.

Clubs have five years to use their compensatory draft pick, although first-round draft picks cannot be used in the drafts of 2010 and 2011.

Once the level of the compensatory draft pick is determined, it will slot in after the club's regulation draft pick — determined on its ladder position at the end of the 2010 season — for the corresponding round. The AFL's national development manager, David Matthews, said yesterday he was confident the league had balanced the needs of developing a competitive team on the Gold Coast with compensating the existing clubs for any losses they might incur.

[grazman 6,667]

Next year is compromised in that GC17 have access to a number of 17 Y.Os in the QLD U18 team only.

[LeBron James 41]

i'm with you mono i think everyone here on demonland is wrong

the draft in 2009 is GC17 paradise! im prety sure whoever comes last gets pick 4 (mind you, we'd ge tthe priority i think still if we win 5 games or less).

<_<

You're wrong.

Next year is comprimised in the fact that the eligibility is 4 months lower, so there will be less players able to nominate.

GC also get access to Queensland 17 year olds. Thats it.

2010 is when the draft rapage begins.

[Red and Blue Flame 142]

dammit! steve may probs won't be eligible! he's 16 atm

[LeBron James 41]

If we get pick 1 & 2 next year we can get Butcher (FF) and Scully (very classy midfielder with elite skills).

I don't care if anyone labels me a tanker or whatever, i want those 2 picks.

[Red and Blue Flame 142]

well doesn't matter. we can still finish 14th and get pick 1.. win 5 games and we've got it

[LeBron James 41]

well doesn't matter. we can still finish 14th and get pick 1.. win 5 games and we've got it

4 games you mean.

A team needs to win under 4.5 games 2 seasons in a row to qualify for a first round PP.

[Jumping Jack Clennett 1,630]

Apologies, Demons 06, it seems you're right!

Oh NO!!!!!!!!! Another whole season where we hope to lose! I don't know how much more of this I can take! Woe is me!!!!!

[Red and Blue Flame 142]

4 games you mean.

A team needs to win under 4.5 games 2 seasons in a row to qualify for a first round PP.

i thought i was 8 games or less over 2 seasons???

[LeBron James 41]

Apologies, Demons 06, it seems you're right!

Oh NO!!!!!!!!! Another whole season where we hope to lose! I don't know how much more of this I can take! Woe is me!!!!!

I don't know if i can handle another season with 4 wins or less, but the way i see it we are building a great young list.

Pick 1 & 2 next year will give us possibly the best shot at a flag we've had in 50 years...

[LeBron James 41]

i thought i was 8 games or less over 2 seasons???

Nope.

We won 5 games last year and 3 this year.

It's under 4.5 for two seasons.