How we can beat Lions..

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Valenti's got to be close to getting a run.

I'm not sure Bode will be persisted with.

You don't need a win to show positives.

I've seen plenty of positives this season, and we've only had one win (and that was only two quarters of decent football).

Sewn up?

We're on the same number of wins as WCE [edit: if we win this week, as you're advocating], and with virtually the same percentage after Geelong's astounding winning margin last week.

I completely agree Rogue. Where we are at at this point of the year and given we are blooding a number of youngsters positives should be measured on more than just the scoreboard. I reckon WCE are a real risk ATM to us. If they get socked by 23 goals at home then they are in zip win country.

And its game, set, match with Nudge.....straight sets. Through to the second round!

There are two kinds of footy supporter, I reckon. One kind says this. The other engages his brain and realises that empty cliches like 'a winning culture' and 'having a red hot crack' are not the answer, enticing though they may seem to those looking for that impossible quick fix.

Whether you like it or not mate, we are a few cows short of a herd as it stands, and we still rely heavily on our older players to be genuinely competitive (although that situation is improving, I'm pleased to say), rather than our prime-aged players (of which we have very few).

There is diddly squat to be gained by finishing above last this year, apart from an intangible amount of pride. In the modern climate, I would have thought that pride would be more than eroded by the feeling of stupidity that the club and its supporters will feel if does itself out of the best youngster in the country for the sake of a meaningless win or two.

Absolutely.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

After all, while we do need quality kidz at our club, there is NO proof to ever suggest number 1 picks translate to premiership. Saints failed dismally despite close to a dozen top 5 draft picks. How good would the hawks really be had they picked Sylvia and Farren Ray instead of Roughead and Franklin. Alot of drafting is about luck.

To win a premiership, a number of things would definitely need to go our way. One of the key components is the access to and development of talent. St Kilda should have made more of the talent but squandered it in other areas. That does not infer their recruitment was at fault. You need talent to win a premiership and alot of elements go into establishment of talent as stars including recruitment.

2003 draft year is proving to be wasteland and a disappointment for talent. The only star to emerge after 5 years of footy is Adam Cooney (pick 1). Isnt it important to have the opportunity to pick the best?? The rest are middle of the road and 2003 is clearly inferior to other years draft pools. Its unfortunate that MFC had two good dips in the 2003 for MOR talent. Asie from the years drafting in the top 10 is not about luck at all. Its about the identification of talent and the determination of the best choice by a good recruiter. Its not luck at the top. It is a lucky pool once you get to the end of the 2nd round though.

We are guerenteed a top 3 pick this year, and a priority pick also. That is enough to get us some great talent.

Pick 7 can get you Joel Selwood or Rys Palmer. Pick 8 can get u Jimmy Bartel.

While pick 3 can get you Farren Ray, Colin Sylvia or Aaron Fiora (decent but not superstar players.)

Why compromise our access to choice the best talent in the country? If its a 2003 Cooney like situation then I want to have access to him. Also we have PSD pick #1. Given the lack of talent that usually falls to the PSD, I want to ensure MFC has access to it There is no tangible reason why we should rack up wins and jeopardise these outcomes. The Carlton or Bulldogs win did nothing for morale or spirit.

However it cost us pick 18 in last years draft and given this year has meant our second round PP could have been a No 1 pick. We have already taken a hit to our list because of lost opportunities.

You cant compare draft numbers between different years because it is clear that the level of talent in any year varies so much. As previously said 2003 was a bad year and Ray and Sylvia were picks 4 and 3 that year. Aaron Fiora was just bad recruiting. And its too early to rave on Palmer yet

The point is... let's get some top draft picks!!! but lets not forget the big picture, that picks dont equal success. A win or two here or there is GREAT for the young players development

I think you have missed the big picture and dont understand how the system works. And I am sure you will be the first to bleat about recruiting when any bad performance arises.

[H_T 3,049]

I actually feel like we are in with a good chance this week..

Bar the first quarter, we did ok up there, and I really sense a win is close..

If Colin Garland goes to Bradshaw, Warnock to Brown, there are a few other key Match-ups..

We need someone to play as a defensive forward on Joel Macdonald, he really gives them alot of drive and is a real link up player for them, Perhaps Dunn, who is a similiar size, can go with him.. unless he's sent to trapper..who clearly does not like being tagged, thats if he plays!

Play PJ @ CHF, Miller out of the Square..

Who will go with Power and/or Black??

I feel Bartram should go with Power or Black, probably Black.. Leave Power to his devices..

Jamar/White really need to get back and plug the whole if were a chance..

Maybe Bruce could go with trapper..

The lions are a very physical side, so if we can run hard, absorb the pressure early, I think were a show!

As for changes, I can only see maybe this:

Out: Bode

In: Morton

But who knows..

I doubt very much whether Bradshaw will play. Why would they risk him before the week off?

Expect our old no.1 draft pick to return, in Johnstone. Warnock will go to Brown. Dunn might get the job on Black, maybe even Brennan. If I was Bailey, and I wanted to win I would put J.McDonald on Power. If I didn't want to win though......I would keep J.McDonald - two times best and fairest - all australian - in the back pocket like Bailey has done recently. Maybe swap him occassionally with Bartram.

You have to go with Bate at CHF, take Miller at Full Forward if Newton is still not ready. Play PJ (High Tower) in the pocket and swap him with White in the ruck. Where's Meesen? Lets take a look at him. Jamar out for this week. Bode can stay in. Morton another week at Sandy to brush up on his skills. His execution against Richmond cost Dees the game.

[45HG 1,559]

If we have a few wins up our sleeve, i'd rather beat Essendon (once they've past 5 wins)

Just hate that team, and their fans. Would also like a loss up our sleeve so we can have a real crack at beating the Tigers in Round 22.

[H_T 3,049]

If we have a few wins up our sleeve, i'd rather beat Essendon (once they've past 5 wins)

Just hate that team, and their fans. Would also like a loss up our sleeve so we can have a real crack at beating the Tigers in Round 22.

Agree with having a real crack at Tigers in Round 22. It would be great to beat them and have them fininsh 9th.....again! They will eat their own.

Agree with Bombers. How many wins do they have now? 4? They are not tanking thats for sure now. A couple of weeks ago I was concerned about them. But they are pretty much off the radar now. They are a proud club who want to win. My concern now is West Coast! Can you believe that! who would of thought the Eagles were the concern for the wooden spoon!

The Eagles and Dockers still have to play one another too. They must be the biggest disappointments of this season, both regarded before the season as finalists for this season. To have both won just 2 games from 13 with their home ground advantage is a disgrace.

[45HG 1,559]

But we can always lose against WCE this season, giving us a game up the sleeve so to speak.

I hate talking like this, but honestly it's the only course of action our club can take

[Diablo 1]

But we can always lose against WCE this season, giving us a game up the sleeve so to speak.

I hate talking like this, but honestly it's the only course of action our club can take

Honestly hotgod, the way WCE are going I reckon the only way we could lose that game is if we physically did not turn up. Much like the Carlton game last year, which should have been irrelevant as we should never have beaten the Dogs a few weeks earlier, it will be what we do in the other games that decides whether or not we finish last.

[45HG 1,559]

I see what you mean, but so far this year we've played about 10 decent quarters. Won one game, which was only two quarters against a rubbish team.

The Eagles were shocking on the weekend, but did smash a quality team in Adelaide and i think are more likely to pull a few upset wins.

[H_T 3,049]

Honestly hotgod, the way WCE are going I reckon the only way we could lose that game is if we physically did not turn up. Much like the Carlton game last year, which should have been irrelevant as we should never have beaten the Dogs a few weeks earlier, it will be what we do in the other games that decides whether or not we finish last.

I have a solution in that game against West Coast. We get some of our interchange to muck up and have 19 players or 20 players on the ground when the ball is in West Coasts forward line. If we can do that 7 or 8 times during the game giving them 8 goals. They should take the 4 points surely! (I hate talking like this....but I want to see MFC fortunes turn around asap). can't blame me wanting the best for the footy club.

[beelzebub 23,383]

To win a game at the moment whilst rewarding effort is nothig more than a win for the ske of it and ignores the bigger picture. Actually winning to omuch currently is to cut off your nose to spite your face.

There is a big difference between having a top 3 pick and having the NUMBER ONE pick !!..as it also affects the position in the PSD also...and the priority pick prior to the second round..thats three picks !!

Honeslty ..who cares if we are spooners.. its no big deal..The only game in town is PREMIERSHIPS....thats real coinage..There is NO SECOND PRIZE...you either win a premiership..or you're somewhere else on the ladder. It might well be all good and such for coaches etc etc to be able to say we finished top 4 top 8 etc ...still no flag !!

Yes we all want the team to be competitve. That has to be competitive week in week out and with the possibility of attaining something otherwise its all moot .

Football is a bit like buiilding a house for sale. Ther is a lot of time and effort spent on getting the house up and into shape. It also needs to be the right shape for the times. Then there's a limited opportunity to maximise your value into the market i.e a window of opportunity at a serious tilt. After which what were one minute assetts are becoming a liability.

Theres a time and place for everything as they say..this is not the time to be winning..its the time for planning and building ! A HUGE difference.

[H_T 3,049]

There is a big difference between having a top 3 pick and having the NUMBER ONE pick !!

Yes we all want the team to be competitve.

Theres a time and place for everything as they say..this is not the time to be winning..its the time for planning and building ! A HUGE difference.

[Eastie Boyz 0]

The crows left Power to his devices....all 40 of them.

stupid comment that, play Lions, must tag power and black.

And make sure that whoever is on Brennan can hurt him going the other way.

As for the debate about whether you'd prefer to win games or deliberately lose. tbh I'd prefer to see my team trying to win. The top 10 draft picks in any given year generally all turn out about as good as each other so to have pick 1 or 2 isn't really a big issue. At this stage the priority pick is pretty likely.

For kids that come into the AFL I'm sure they don't want to play for a side that gets belted every week and doesn't win any games so imagine the confidence/morale of guys like Frawley who are only in their second season and know that they've been picked in the side so that they'd lose and pick up draft picks. Compare this to a group of youngsters who have gained a bit of confidence for the next year after stealing a few games towards the end of the year and you get a massive difference between the mentality of the two.

[Guest redandbluethruandthru]

J.Brown 5 goals, Bradshaw 6

Dees lose by 23

Dees win Naita

[Eastie Boyz 0]

Didn't think Bradshaw was playing

[H_T 3,049]

The top 10 draft picks in any given year generally all turn out about as good as each other so to have pick 1 or 2 isn't really a big issue. At this stage the priority pick is pretty likely.

There is a big difference between 1 and 3. And if you want a ruckman ahead of a midfielder, there is a huge difference!

The priority pick will be pick 17. We got Bate and Dunn at 13 and 14 or something like that. The priority pick wont be the be-all.

Guys like J.Frawley won't know if they are getting selected to lose. No-one said that. That is based on what the coaches know - if they can or can't do the job. The players play to win, no doubt about that. But its the coaches and match comittee...

[Forest Demon 4,681]

I actually feel like we are in with a good chance this week..

Bar the first quarter, we did ok up there, and I really sense a win is close..

Im not sure what game you were watching Nudge. We were disgusting for three quarters, and if Brisbane had of kicked straight and taken their chances, we would of been down by 100 points. I left that game in total shock as to how bad we actually were.

But in saying that, we are looking more competitive week in week out lately, and I think we go into most games a chance.

[Eastie Boyz 0]

What if you want a ruckman but the best available is only worth pick 50. Do you still take him with #1?

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

What if you want a ruckman but the best available is only worth pick 50. Do you still take him with #1?

No. With pick #1 you take the best available player regardless of position. Try and wait to your 4th or 5th pick to get a no 50 pick ruckman around pick 50.

[beelzebub 23,383]

No. With pick #1 you take the best available player regardless of position.

Totally agree.. Only one team gets number 1..after that all picks are somewhat reactionary to availability. Which is wehy finishing last this year is so important...we get to choose..US !! not them !!

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Totally agree.. Only one team gets number 1..after that all picks are somewhat reactionary to availability. Which is wehy finishing last this year is so important...we get to choose..US !! not them !!

And as a bonus you get PSD #1 which gives you first access to the best potential ready talent that falls out with a Club and is uncontracted.

Yes. We need to finish last.

[Gorgoroth 13,019]

Yep, pick the best available whether thats a mid, ruck, forward, back.

[H_T 3,049]

Agree!!!!!!! You take what you believe is the best player available.

[beelzebub 23,383]

yep..some see it as minimal in effect but there's a chasm between 1st and anything else really come picking order.

Last means pick 1...means psd pick 1...means priority , first in line pre 2nd round picks. It means we choose who we want..not adjusting to what some other teams leaves.

Some want to win a few games.. Why ?? what does it matter other than working against going forward..its just DUMB !! to the max !! By all means lets be competitive..lets win some quaters..lets get some footy happening...just dont win !!

West Aussie footy is in the sewer right now. They are in a spotlight we just dont comprehend. You think we get scrutinised and put to the knife ?? well they are the only game in town and they both stink. The pressure is going to be on WA teams getting the best..and especially if any are home town boys.

Be aware folks..we are in a race...a race to finish last.

So line up the Shermans, Panzers.. Abrams, Leopards and Challengers...coz its the battle of the tanks.

We know its really proactive organisationof football assetts and priorites.. We know..Aka knows.. hell even Vlad knows its going on. Not only is it going on..it needs to be done well and with a good result.

So if anyone wants an op...now's good and take your sweet time coming back

Hopefully Bailey knows which way buttered toast falls

[do it 4 robbie 1]

To start winning now would be a total waste of a season. Have never been prouder to lose in all my life. It`s going to be a ripper draft. West Coast made their intentions clear on the weekend. they are even trying to get a worse percentage than us ! Freo will also jump in on the game now. WE MUST COME LAST and it`s no certainty yet.

[Tolstoys Nudge 1,734]

Perhaps you are dyslexic. I don't think I've gone back on what I said in the slightest. I simply put it another way. I want us to be competitive, but winning serves no real purpose, other than to pump up a few tyres (which will deflate over the off-season anyway). And I'm pretty sure that in my first post I inferred (perhaps that was my mistake) that I would be delighted to win more games if we were able to keep a hold of the bottom spot.

You are qualifying your own point of view, so don't suggest I'm backing down when I do the same. My point remains that winning does us little good. Again, fighting losses are the best outcome, unless the ladder situation changes.

*Cough*

Winning does no good huh???

You tell me now it does no good??

The club & supporters are up and about, people feeling happy, some positive signs are really shining through,

and we are still a grat chance for the no.1 pick!!!

This was a great day, and its what footy is all about!!