Bombay Airconditioning

So it's a top 20 pick then.

I think it's fair to say that all the junior comps around the country are well run but some kids for whatever reasons don't respond to the system their in but for geographical reasons are stuck in that system for the duration of their junior career. If kids are competitive and can use the footy good clubs will teach them how they want them to play.

Appreciate the info but you did say that was pre season. Fast forward 8 months and after insipid performances against Essendon and Carlton and I would be very surprised if another 6 aren't moved on. I agree about the stability and players being familiar which each but there's still 6-7 players who need to be removed in a hurry.

With regards to trading/free agency it's all about who's available. I'm surprised Richmond didn't chase Garlett. I think part of them not chasing was they were setting themselves for Treloar this year. For each club learning is different. Richmond still managed to beat Freo/Hawthorn/Sydney. They were in their final for the first 3/4. I don't think it was personnel issues for them as much as it was mental. That's three first round exits in a row. Should they make finals again next year, regardless of who they bring in this year the pressure on them to win a final will be enormous.

1 - must be a natural competitor2 - elite skills 3 - footy smarts Not being smart but the successful clubs have been drafting kids with those traits for years.

Playing in finals would give players an idea of how the pressure is different and how certain rules are relaxed or in the case of last weeks games overruled. But just because your playing in a final doesn't necessarily mean you will learn.In your opinion what have North and Richmond learnt over the past couple of seasons. Some of our players are so stupid they obviously thought that by Roos coaching that it would translate in automatic wins, they forgot the part that they have to learn, evolve as players and sadly in some cases try.

Four winsLast year 1 - Essendon, enough said. 2 - Cats, a team in decline. This year 3 - Richmond, chokers, jump at their own shadows come September. 4 - Sydney, severely undermanned. I think the Dogs got more out of this final series than North. That's the way I look at it anyway.

Our club needs only to look as far as the Hawks on Friday night, yes they sung the song with gusto but there was no North Melbourne like carry on. We get wrapped up by winning a home and away match then get flogged the following week. That's why the mentally weak/scarred non competitive players on our list must be removed ASAP.

Wasnt it you yesterday saying "Because that's what I meant....FMD"? Wasn't that your response when someone misinterpreted what you said. Maybe you haven't misinterpreted mine maybe we just look at football differently. Teams that were hoping to make finals last year but didn't in Suns/Giants/Pies plus let's add the Doggies who did make it and teams that were a little way off like us and the Saints(I didn't include Port because they had an off year and will bounce back) Now if any of those won those two finals being Richmond and Sydney to me you could say they have improved this year. Norths home and away season consisted of 2 wins over Essendon/Lions/Geelong, a 9 point win over the Eagles early in the season and a 11 point win over Fremantle late in the year. It also includes routine losses to the Hawks and a full strength Sydney, an absolute drubbing against Fremantle when they were steamrolling sides early in the season and late season losses to the Suns and Dogs. I remember hearing late in the year North have won 7 straight and then you look at who they played. They made a prelim last year after beating the Bombers by 12 and Geelong by 6 before having their pants removed by Sydney. That's why in the finals thread after North beat Sydney I said "look at the players carrying on, look at Brayshaw and Scott carrying on, getting around handing out high fives and touching each other. Where were the leaders saying calm down we haven't achieved anything yet". Richmond defeated Freo/Sydney/Hawks all at close to full strength on their home grounds but finals are different. They were destined to choke again and they did. Vickers who kicked 6/7? against the Pies only weeks earlier couldn't hit them from 20 out straight in front. The Tigers of old had returned to haunt themselves as many predicted. North managed to bumble across the line only coming good late in the game. Then North played Sydney minus Buddy/Reid/Parker/Jack plus Lewis Jetta who was already trying on Freo's jumper and cooked players in Shaw/Goodes/McVeigh and Richards. To be honest that was the only final game I missed but from all reports the game was a mess with both sides making simple errors and poor skills on display. North surprised a lot of people including myself against the Eagles but they lost. Yes there were some bad umpiring decisions that went both ways. Now maybe this is just me because most teams do it but North and Richmond play for the most frees, throwing their heads back/ducking in tackles of trying to barge their way out of congestion head first. Norths final campaign was drew big donuts, as I previously said had they played Dogs/Crows week 1 or Hawks week 2 they would have been knocked out earlier. 16 other clubs will hope that Richmond and North don't change their coach and again pick up the scraps with regards to trades/free agency because that will mean more of the same from two of the biggest pretenders in recent times.

Cant agree, doggies will take another step, port will be back, then you've got Hawks/Eagles/Freo if they trade well. North just scrapped into 8th. Their first two wins in the finals didn't mean much in my book.

What's he like on his left?

His wardrobe is a mess.

Mitchell Kennedy Fyfe Goldy Danger In that order.

I wouldn't read too much into Norths season. If they played dogs/crows week 1 or Hawks week 2 everyone would be saying that free agency backfired on them. Tigers than Swans was a dream run.

Anyone seen Kieran Collins getting about?

Depends on what the Pies offer. Do they get a second rounder for Freeman, could we get that. There are a number of quality talls in this draft and as we know talls unless an absolute standout are overlooked. There will be a couple that are set to go in the second round. Obviously depends on who we pick up during the trade period. What I do find amusing is the whole it's a "shallow draft", over half the people using the term honestly wouldn't have a clue. Melbourne knows better than anyone that high picks don't always turn into capable players.

Take the pick and back the recruiters.

He can do more than do a Capper. He can take a contested mark and as a reasonable shot for goal. Unlike others on our list I think he would be a better player at a stronger club. Wasn't his best year effort wise and yes he can go. If for some reason he stays he must play permanent forward.

No one has over stepped the line, criticism haas been hard but fair. When some people discuss Grimes they keep referring to he's a great bloke from a great family, and my favourite he's a great public speaker. To me and some others that kind of stuff is irrelevant as we are discussing his ability as a footballer. If Grimes isn't traded this year he will be going through what Howe/Garland/Toumpas are currently going through, and that is a massive wake up call. His next contract if offered one at all isn't going to be anywhere near what he's currently on. For the last couple of years he would of been cleaning up. Yes he probably was the wrong choice for captain but to his credit he did his best, but when it was time to relinquish it he clung on as it would of guarenteed him a game. The club has to make tough decisions if we are to climb the ladder and as he's already found out this year he is one of them.

I haven't received that offer as yet. And what if I want Ellie Blackburn??

It says Lloyd was development/assistant coach and he is going to the Cats whilst Kirk is returning to the Swans.

Plus COLA, do we honestly believe the swans divvy it up between the whole team. A player on 200k gets told they can only give him 180k and 20k of COLA as opposed to 200 plus 20.

Simon Lloyd and Brett Kirk quit Freo's coaching panel.

I want Toumpas gone but I get the whole "it's just one place on the list argument". To me this is about freeing up cash to make a play for someone else not about list space. I honestly believe next year could be the last for the likes of Watts and Grimes if they remain on our list. What are we honestly expecting in return for him? We have to be realistic. If this did go through then two days later we heard that we've offered player x 800k for five years and he's agreed to terms we'd all be wetting our pants.

Angry at Casey posted today that Grimes is out the door.What would the combined salary of Watts/Grimes be, I'd guess anywhere from 650-800k. Both contracted for next year and both dropped at least twice throughout the year.