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Hi everyone, I hope you all had a good Christmas and I wish you all a happy and prosperous New Year. I flew down from FNQ and attended training today. It was a beautiful day in Melbourne and the training was intense and very productive. AFL Induction New recruits, Mark Neeld. Rehab group (Indoors on bikes) - Clark, Trengove and Magner Rehab group (outdoors running drills) Gawn, Garland, Watts, Taggert, Dunn and Dawes Main Group Everyone else I spoke at length with everyone in the rehab group and they gave me some insight to what was happening with the players. AFL Induction the new recruits were at AFL Induction with Mark Neeld and did train at 0600 to-day. They told me the new recruits are fitting in very well and training very hard. Rehab group (Indoors on bikes) (Clark), his foot is progressing better than expected however they are sticking to the program as advised by the doctors and physio. He did make an appearance on the ground near the end of training and he looked very happy and was kicking the ball beautifully. (Trengove), Is still on crutches and not putting pressure on his foot. He did not come out the whole session. (Magner), was going very hard on the bike, he was on the bike because he pulled up a little sore after Darwin and Christmas. Rehab group (outdoors running drills) (Gawn), he said he was feeling 100% and it is now a decision for the physio team to get him back in the main group. He is looking forward to the intra-club match, (Garland), precautionary as he has the flu, (Watts & Taggert), both joined the rehab group after the first training drill. They both pulled up with a slight calf strain after Darwin, however both feeling 100% now and will resume full training after their scans to-day. (Dunn & Dawes), both joined the rehab group after warm ups and the first training drill. Both pulled up sore after Darwin. Dawes has trimmed down big time and moves very nicely to the ball. Main Group The session started with warm-ups; (stretching, run throughs, kick to kick). They then broke of into random groups and did some triangular kicking drill. Three (stationary) players kicking to each other and three other (mobile) players applying pressured to the three kickers. It was good for fitness and kicking under pressure. Standouts Davey and Watts (Sublime kicking), Nicholson (Missing targets on a number of occasions) They then moved into groups and conducted individual skills with each of their coaches. Backs Split into two groups and conducted clearing drills by foot and punching the ball away from the pack. Standouts T McDonald kicking was outstanding. Mids Split into two groups and conducted centre bounce clearance drills. Standouts Grimes, Rodan. All activities are strictly timed by DM and his support staff. After hydration they then moved into a sprint session conducted by DM. Four groups, two groups running at one time and the other two groups resting. The drill consisted of full length sprints of the oval and back around the boundary back to the same goal square. This consisted of about 8 sprints each. Very Intense. They then split into Fwds, Mids and Backs for more of the same sprints. Fwds Pederson, Blease, Howe, Davey, Byrnes, & Bail. Mids Grimes, Jamar, Rodan, Spencer, McKenzie, Evans (Very quick), Couch, & Sylvia. Backs Strauss, Seller, Frawley, Nicolson, MacDonald, McDonald, Jetta, Gillies, Davis & Nicholson Training then finished after these last sprint drills. The whole session was split into short team drills, individual skills and fitness training. Most noticeable The amount of talk and positive feedback to each other was fantastic. Not one negative word was said. There was some funny one liners at the end of training directed at Howe about a trip to the G to watch the cricket. It was very funny and very relaxed. Dawes and Dunn had a kick off at goal from 50m on the boundary and all I can say is I am glad Dunn has found his position in the back line and we recruited someone that can kick goals Nice to watch Dawes kick at goal, he had no problem kicking from 50 with the ball soaring over the goal posts and he was very accurate. The boys then went inside for stretching, massage, lunch (Recovery session) and then off to AAMI for a weights session. FNQ Demon

It's quite possible we could but we certainly didn't in the previous years before Jim came on board; some of the previous Presidents and CEO's were just incompetent or didn't really have their heart in it. If you can suggest someone that's better than either of the incumbents then let's hear it? I'm on record as saying that I think Cam's a bit slick, but he seems to be doing the job, the club's turning a profit and the balance sheet is improving. As you know it's a different thing, running a Footy Club, as opposed to a normal business, and you need to have specific skills to do the job properly; as someone once said you give a football club $10m and they'll spend $11m. McLardy was there by default and seems to be growing in to the job, he may prove to be an excellent President or may fall by the wayside but at the moment he's handling a difficult job with little fuss and his telling moment will come when he responds to the allegations made against us. There are those that are [censored] because the current board seem to have grabbed the limelight and have taken the credit for initiatives commenced by the previous boards but that always happens in this type of situation; how many Liberal projects did the incoming Labor Government open and take credit for and vice versa? I have no doubt that there have been toes trod on and egos bruised but at the end of the day it's the club that we all care about and petty arguments between parties about who did this and who did that are irrelevant to the vast majority of the members. We all want the club to be successful, you're no orphan there, it's just your posting in the Wilson thread was at least inflammatory and at worst baiting and vindictive. I'm sure you're better than that and it was a lapse.

I went down there today, got there about 9.50, so a little late. Bear in mind this was the first time I've attended training, so I have nothing to compare on. I'll just jot some points down of things I noticed: Tapscott looks as fit as I've seen him, and has good disposal. Tom McDonald's disposal looked good in a few backline drills that were run, in which there was a significant emphasis on hitting targets (good to see as this area hurts us). At one point he asked Neil Craig whether what he'd just done was better, and Craigy relayed a couple of tips, mainly to make sure he's hitting targets between their eyes, rather than at their feet. I was pleasantly surprised with Josh Tynan's kicking disposal, which I thought was scratchy, however it looked very good in a couple of drills. He looks fit and a great size too. Although Grimes has had some niggles, he looks in great nick. Dunn and Watts (both in some sort of rehab group, although no apparent injuries were noticeable as the drills they were completing still required full body movement) were constantly yelling encouragement to the boys in the main group. It was impressive as they had their own drills to complete. Watts has great disposal, let's hope his competitiveness is getting better as he matures. Blease and Davey were putting in with the running drills. I don't expect these boys to eventually be better than the others at the endurance stuff as I would hope the others are also improving. Blease and Davey are not physically gifted at the endurance stuff, and are unlikely to become better at it than James Magner for instance who in turn is unlikely to become faster at the short stuff than these two. I only expect them to work hard to improve their own PB's. I could not fault their attitude on today. Troy Davis lacks confidence with his kicking. Evans looked pretty fit as well. Does anybody know if they are training at Gosch's paddock on Wednesday? I live close and wouldn't mind having a look.

Is it true you are a moderator? (A genuine question, but if the answer is yes, then you can take it as a criticism.)

My reason for my dislike of CW is 1/ she masks opinion as fact and fact as opinion 2/ she exaggerates and distorts opinion/fact and gives too much credence to the insignificant 3/ she chooses to completely ignore facts that are in the public arena or rearrange them if it doesnt suit her argument 4/ she is exceptionally good/talented at doing the first three She is a top class journalist who has a wide following and many cannot see past the 4 points I have stated and that makes her dangerous. She is no longer measured and thoughtful - she is agenda driven and flawed. Compare her to many other journalists who do much of the above ? In short, the likes of Mark Robinson are just not taken seriously like Carro is - I laugh at the likes of Greg Denham and Mark Robinson - I dislike Carro as she has the talent and smarts to do much better.

That again is where we differ. I do not see why McLean's comments would force their hand more than the earlier ones about other clubs. I'm no spin doctor, but I can think of responses the AFL could have made to his comments which would have defused the matter. They could even have announced a sham investigation which would review their earlier investigation and quickly confirm their earlier conclusion of no tanking. I do not see why 'new information' which is actually less damming than 'old information' about other clubs would force their hand. So to argue "the AFL had to" I think you have to rely on the effect of pressure from the press. If a certain journalist put continual pressure on them they could have suggested to her that they'd be happy to widen the investigation to include Richmond too. For starters, how did they almost lose to a club that was blatantly tanking?

I don't know about the Gold name on the card. I haven't been called that name, since mum called me in for dinner. It would be great if we could have our D'landers names on it. Can you imagine having Sloonie, Macca, Belzebub, WYL etc.. plastered over your membership Absolutely Sheer Dead Brill...

I've questioned your intellect for sometime now and being a person of generous disposition I've given you the benefit of the doubt. But this takes the cake and places you in the very bottom of the normal distribution. Ben is a bloke who goes to every training session, he posts positive stuff all the time, he defends those in the club against criticism that he supports, he goes to every game and he shows a knowledge of the game you'll never have. And just because he holds a view that doesn't fit with the victim mentality that so many on this board have you say he wants the club to go down. I say I don't think Schwab is as good as we can do and that I like Caro because she provides information and I'm treated the same way without anyone knowing what I do or have done for the club. Any opinion on here that doesn't go with the victim mentality, the free handout and the unfairly treated groupthink and suddenly you're an agenda driven poster. I want this club to act in a way on and off the field that demands the respect of the football world. The sad fact of the matter is we have been riddled with drama's and disasters, some of our making and some we couldn't control, which means we are the joke of the footy world. Reality says we are being investigated for tanking and all people here want to do is say 'but it's not fair, what about Carlton". Well, welcome to the real world. Let's just deal with where we are and move forward and work to getting some respect in this competition.

you'll be disappointed but.......................only ch9, no abc or internet and they play the 2000 gf non-stop

You are being childish.....my grandchildren know better than you........I don't mind your posts as they give a different view on things but to resort to this rubbish posted above is petty,boorish,and frankly beneath childish....Grow up.....

Just signed my 10 week old son up let the brain washing begin

Quite possibly Demetriou's AFL didnt want a bar of it and quite rightly, but Anderson's jumping jihad splinter group certainly saw an opening !! Vlad inherited this balls up and yet thats karma in a sense for had he not p!ssed off OS for a little freeby then none of this would have transpired

I hope someone is paying FNQ for these training reports. Far and away the best training reports I've ever seen.

Went down and it was a light session so I can't really give you anything of any worth, and every arguably important insight is previously mentioned in the thread. I will say that Cam Pedersen's grandad is already a Demon and very proud of his boy an excited about the size of Dawes. And he is big, someone mentioned he was light - he is not. He will be good value. Everyone looked pretty fit and happy. No reason to be depressed or elated really. Really great to see Evans doing all of an albeit light session. Trengove and Clark didn't train. Gawn running. Watts, Garland, Dawes, and Taggert did less running. Oh, and Casey is in terrible nick. Very sandy.

Phew what a long read... So any news from the AFL about penalties for the club? Or are we still in limbo?

Hi All, I went down to have a look today, and as we should expect, they were all in pretty good condition. Pretty light session on the whole, they split into FWD's, Mid's/Rucks and Back's. Taggert and J Watts trained away from the group, focussing on playing on after a marking situation. No newbies at all, they were in the Induction. No Mark Neeld either. T-Mac and Nicholson lead the running as always, Gawn was running 800's (recovering from hamstring issues), and Big Mitch was on the bike the whole time. Positives: Lynden Dunn, Col Sylvia, Nathan Jones and Luke Tapscott look in really good nick. Negatives: Chris Dawes was 2-grabbing everything (not competitive either), seems like he is still having wrist/thumb issues. Knee heavily strapped and he has slimmed down, looks too light. Backline kicking drill, Troy Davis could not hit the side of a barn.

Some of us believe that part of 'dealing with it and moving forward' is to use the fact that it is we are not being treated fairly to our advantage. That is not 'playing the victim'. Standing up to this is important in winning respect. Winning games would also help!

I suppose this is where the teach them to be nice to girls, avoid racist slurs and keep away from drugs i wonder if they will teach them not to make inflammatory comments about other clubs or players unless they have the proof to back it up (a'la Mr UnClean)?

The power of the media shouldn't be underestimated or discounted here . Imagine if shortly after the investigation started, the Age or the H/S had launched a campaign to discredit the investigation . That Wilson didn't write her garbage pieces . That instead of the one-sided view, the media added balance to the whole argument . Probably in doing so highlighting the myriad of other 'Questionable' games dating back 15 years or so . We would have seen the investigation have to take all sorts of different paths . In effect , this would have strengthened our own case and probably turned the focus right back to the real guilty parties . Teams that won 'Premierships' from 'so called' tanking and another club that a certain journalist has ties to . Not forgetting the 'Biggie' - down Royal Parade way .

or because angry anderson saw a chance to make a name for himself while vlad was enjoying largesse at the olympics?

You could be forgiven for thinking that Demonland had morphed in to Demonology. Let the insults fly. This thread and the Wilson one no longer serve any purpose other than to settle some old scores.

Thanks FNQ demon. How on earth do you get down here to watch training? A bloody marvel!

Cheers for all the updates Dlanders very much appreciated. Heading into the home straight now before NAB Cup thank christ for that the off season can't end quick enough for me. God I miss the footy

I agree Ron come on wyl QBW would be a perfect time.

Excellent summation Robbie. Can we please get this bloody enquiry finished.

they wanted scully. the players didn't know though. ironically Essendon & Sheedy thru a spanner in the tiges works the week before....Rnd 17 > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_AFL_season#Win.2FLoss_Table this caused them to go above the priority pick range. so the tiges aimed at next best pick they could get. So stop the Dees from getting the priority pick. Rnd 18... is this why we looked so embarassing as the Tiges were trying to cause us to lose the deserved P'Pick... they coached poorly to stuff us up, & we were put in an unenviable position of losing a deserved PP.

Of course we then realised that Bailey's at the Crows so we might venture out there tomorrow.

Yeah, imagine the look on the card checker's face when he sees 'Bring-Back-Powell', 'Curry & Beer', 'jumbo returns' or big_red_fire_engine ...

What if one's opinion is just that - one's opinion ? We don't always post so that it falls into the majority view . I don't reckon there are that many here who post that way . Some do but so what ? I reckon there's quite an eclectic bunch on this site and there are quite a number who are prepared to stick their neck out . My views on Wilson for instance does not really take into account what others think or write . I have zero respect for her for the way she's treated our club and would say so even if I was a lone voice . She talks utter rubbish - it's obvious . Has nothing to do with group think . Same with our general treatment in the media - unfair and obviously so . Nearly all the examples you gave don't bother me in the slightest and probably never will . The AFL and Wilson do bother me and many others because many feel that they're trying to damage our club . Hard to argue against that by the way . A large majority thinking a certain way doesn't always fall into the 'group think' category . I'm not saying that you said that by the way maurie, because you didn't . Just my take on proceedings . And I'm not saying that 'group think' doesn't happen because of course it does . By the way, is this post one that falls into the 'group think' dynamic ? I could cop plenty of flak or maybe I won't . However, you nearly always know when you are posting in the minority view - you've got to be ready to back it up and no moaning about it either . What's ironic is that those who are complaining about being singled out are (in a way) on the same page with those who are arguing that the club is being singled out

Yeah they were up and about, very vocal, i get down to training a fair bit living so close to Casey Fields, Howe is clearly the best player on that list.

Redleg and I are carryimg out our own independent investigation of the phenomenon that has come to be known as tanking. Our first stop was Adelaide where we sought to interview former Demon coach Dean Bailey. We arrived at Alberton Oval this morning with the temperature nudging 40 Celsius even though it was still early in the day. The first unusual thing we noticed was that there was not a soul around. No Hinkley, no players and no Dean Bailey which was unfortunate because we'd spent a day navigating the rough waters of Bass Strait with the aim of securing an interview. We'd endured the sickening nausea that comes even when a big ship encounters waves of ten feet up to thirty at times so it was a major disappointment to miss the great man but he was nowhere to be found. Never mind, we eventually found this bloke named Clarrie who agreed to speak with us: DL: Clarrie, can you tell us about Dean Bailey's position on the tanking enquiry? Clarrie: Sorry sir but I can't tell you a thing. DL: Why is there a cover up going on here? Clarrie: No, no. It's only that I've just arrived here from the Phillipines ... DL: But you work here. You must know something? Clarrie: I'm on the cleaning staff. I know nothing about the football. DL: That's OK. If you hang around this place for a few months more you'll be qualified for a job on the coaching staff. Good day sir and good luck. Well that's it. A wasted morning in Adelaide trying to get to the bottom of the tanking enquiry. Still, I think that as usual, we got a fair bit more than they put in the newspapers. Next stop, Hobart where we hope to catch up with a prominent MFC sponsor.

I don't throw away anything. Go and read the original work by Janis and you'll find plenty of correlations, including unquestioned belief in the morality of the group (Melbourne supporters on Demonland); pressure to conform placed on any member (e.g. Fan, Ben-Hur) who questions the group, couched in terms of 'disloyalty' and personal attack; group cohesiveness becoming more important than individual freedom of expression; and a situational context of highly stressful external threats (tanking allegations and possible sanctions). 'The more amiability there is among the members of an ingroup (e.g. Demonland), the greater the danger that independent critical thinking will be replaced by groupthink, which is likely to result in irrational and dehumanising actions directed against outgroups (e.g. AFL, Wilson, Denham, Fitzpatrick, Carlton, Richmond, Fan, Ben-Hur etc.).'

My guess is that you would be happy to see the investigation find us guilty if CS and CC were the only ones to suffer and that your mate Bailley walked away with a clean slate.

Firstly I'm not a moderator. Secondly I think he is stupid if he suggests BH wants the club to fail. I'm just telling the truth as so many have to me in the last few weeks.

I don't think people want a "free kick" they just want to be treated as equal.....The club has progressed a great deal,stability wise, and has made some great steps forward in the football dept......Most clubs have down periods......Most people on here just want to know Why we have been singled out and no one else.....It's not playing the victim.....It's all about equal rights.

You are so stupid it's mindboggling.

Because I understand why we're being investigated ? Because I understand why other clubs presently aren't ? You wrap those two bits of information together and come up with the above theory ? Or maybe it's because I believe that sanctions against individuals are preferable to sanctions directly against the club. Whatever the AFL decide, I want the club to exhaust all avenues of defence, because I believe that they can't categorically prove we manipulated results as long as Bailey denies any wrongdoing. Now that I've cleared that up - seriously mate, you're the thickest poster I've ever encountered. You are so dumb I don't know how you walk and breathe at the same time. And no, I'm not being rude.

Exactly, Libba was advised to STFU if he knew what was was good for 'im. I was expecting Mclean to get the same but .... No. Dale Lewis was the swans player who was told to keep his mouth shut in regards to the player drug use.

Dear, dear Ben. Your intellectual rigor appears to be breaking down under the pressure of this argie bargie. You just employed a very poor simile that does nothing but reinforce outdated sexual prejudices

Quote where I've said, or even insinuated that ? I even said that I want the club to "fight likes there's no tomorrow". But I don't bleat and scream like a little girl that we're being victimised. I appreciate that you wouldn't know the difference.

I agree with BH's line of thought on this and add that AD would privately admit this has been handled woefully and would be less than impressed with AA's performance. AD didnt want to investigate anyone. What i firmly believe is in our favour ( and that lots are dismissing) is that others have done similar. If the AFL comes down on us with sanctions or penalties and we challenge it in court, the courts will make it clear what does and doesnt constitute "tanking" under the existing AFL rules. The AFL will then be forced to apply the same litmus test against other clubs. It will not just go away. The commission knows this and that is why I believe there will be nothing to see here - move on. The AFL's whole investigation and "please explain" is for the sake of appearances and if the AFL do lay charges they will do it knowing that they will have to look at other clubs and judge them against a set of defined rules and standards that have been defined and refined by a court not by AFL - do you think they want that ? They well may go down this route but I do not buy for second that the "AFL is a dictatorship and it will start and stop with us". I like that they have not put the blowtorch under other clubs - it tells me that they are going to find no case to answer with us. Our best move to date has been - "we will make no comment at all but just so you know - we have the "fink" loaded and ready to go".

I disagree with this. Vlad didnt want ANY clubs under the blowtorch. It was not Fitzpatrick who stopped Carlton being heavied over tanking - it was Vlad with his carte blanche statement for all clubs " tanking does not exist" - thats what stopped Carlton and others having pressure applied. The one opinion I am very firm on - the last thing that AD wanted was this investigation.

you are quite simply wrong on many accounts here. So Libba and Fev point blank fessing the tanking wasn't sufficient to incur an enquiry into Carlton, and by comparison d!ckhead Mc Leans tomfoolery on the couch was ? FFS that's laughable. Interestingly enough he was /is a Carlton player at this juncture. Talk about pots and kettles and yet we are the naughty ones alone. You are happy to ignore the facts eh BH

You misunderstand me at least. I never said we are a scapegoat. Yes, the AFL would have not wanted to open this can of worms. The AFL could have ignored McClean's comments. He didn't even use the 'tanking' word. But for some reason (theories about AA sound plausible) they did decide to investigate. Stupid decision. But at that point it is perfectly reasonable to ask why the investigation wasn't widened to other clubs about whom similar allegations had been made. The AFL could have announced that since a large number of similar allegations had arisen over recent years, they would start a wide-ranging 'royal commission' to put this to bed for once and for all. Maybe that would have been an even stupider decision. But it would have been fairer. I can see that the AFL may have dug themselves into a hole, but that does not change the position that it is unfair to only investigate MFC. Do you think it is fair? OK, so life's not fair.... But I expect if you were personally singled out for something nasty, you'd be inclined to rely on the concept of 'fairness' in your defense and in mitigating penalties etc. I've been arguing that the MFC can threaten to raise the lack of AFL action about tanking by our competitors in mitigation. I may be wrong but I actually feel pretty thin, not thick, nor shallow. No need to be rude BH, just make your arguments please.

It's not so much discrimination, but the landscape has gradually changed, and we were the last to do it, so we come under scrutiny. It's like there's an unwritten statute of limitations that says 2009 is recent enough, but 2007 is too long ago. But you'd have to ask Adrian Anderson - he instigated this second investigation, and he subsequently no longer has a job at the AFL... That may give a clue as to how eager Demetriou et al were to go headfirst into another investigation that could cause so much damage for so little benefit. I think it easily could have been dismissed, but AA let it get out of hand.

You need to be spoonfed constantly. It wasn't up to the AFL to refute McLean's comments. It was so public and unambiguous that it had to be investigated. Everyone knew we didn't want to win in 2009, except Demetriou and Bartlett. It was patently obvious that the AFL didn't want to investigate Melbourne, Carlton, or anyone, but their arm was twisted by the events that unfolded on ONC. There's no discrimination, or conspiracy, it's the accusations against our club that has led to this. I won't respond further to you as I'll not spend my life educating dolts.

Yep , you're right Wyl though we don't know that the investigation hasn't looked at the Kreuzer Cup (hopefully they have). In fact, we're mostly in the dark about what the investigation has looked at and how far and wide they've looked and investigated. As others have said in earlier posts, we're all speculating and obviously hoping for the best . What we do know is what the media has reported - and it's nearly all about us (and mostly damning in an unfair way) . It's been the most one-sided reporting that I can ever remember . Make no mistake, all the 'Journo's know all about the 'so called' tanking that's gone on for years . I say 'so called' tanking because there is no proper definition. They've just decided (virtually en masse) to conveniently put all other 'indiscretions' aside for now. (which has the effect of not strengthening our case in the AFL's eyes) I will never view the media in the same way again . Collectively they lack class and have virtually no integrity.

The Kreuzer cup game was close to the most 'fixed' game in the history of sport . We won the game by 31 points and kicked 21 goals so I'm not apportioning any blame our way . All gambling was suspended apparently (?) and being at the game was like being at social footy game - seriously . Best comparison is the NFL Pro-Bowl (especially for the lack of tackling involved) How, in 5 and a half months , this game hasn't been brought up again by the media is obscenely suspicious . Even just as a reference point ? No - nothing . The selectiveness employed by the media in this whole witch hunt is astonishing . It's what they haven't looked at (or conveniently ignored) is what stands out . Here are the game stats from that sorry day .

We are learning, and we now have The Fink. Funny how the ball game changed after we got him. This is how the games played. You only play it for keeps. The filth do and so should we.

Sanctions handed down to individuals would still hurt the club if they weren't guilty of anything substantial . As an example - Connolly . All we know so far are the 'jocular' comments that he allegedly made . If he were to be punished for just those comments and we didn't stand by him then we'd lose a lot of face - which in turn would damage the club . I'm with Bossdog on this - there can be no expendables (unless they've done the wrong thing) Those calling for individuals heads (and I'm not suggesting that you are one of them) are patently wrong at this stage . Connolly and Schwab have done nothing wrong (that we know of) .